Education isn't the Magic Bullet for Terrorists

Tahir Sahib

thank you for your compliments.

My simple answer would be, social or political or economic injustice will always be present. The question is, how you resolve it? Terrorism is one way, political discourse is another. The idea is that given a representative democracy and suitably responsive governments (I know, both tall orders), one would hope to avoid terrorism. For example, take the current reservations issue which can be termed as an ethnic/racial problem (emerging from social or religious injustice) in India. We had demonstrations, protests, some heads were banged together, but upper caste people had a choice, they could band together to form a terrorist group, go about killing lower caste people or government employees or what have you. Or else, they could setup a political party or support an existing one to see if they can achieve their ends. The idea is to try to go for the latter rather than the former.

This is a very simplistic answer and will need bigger minds than me to answer properly, but hopefully you can see where I am coming from

Cheers

bd

#26 by hasanmahmood

Also you are from India dude - where most people are frustrated so why point out stupid lies about other countries.

Then why are Pakis, and not Indians blowing themselves up?

{Otherwise we would not have seen the dreadful example of the 7/7 London bombers or Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, the ex-LSE student. }

invalid argument..what is being emphasized is a liberal education of ALL as one solution (including women, the bearers and raisers of children) which will in turn cause debates and liberal societies. example of a few educated men in otherwise narrowly educated societies is invalid.

Re: # 27
[example of a few educated men in otherwise narrowly educated societies is invalid. ]
Besides it is the very absence of education that allows the educated to
1) recruit the uneducated as cannon fodder, and
2) Canonise themselves as the fighters for the uneducated.
3) Get support , aid, etc for their causes.

The advantage of acquiring an education can be noticed, only after two or three generations. European nations were as guilty of terrorism, government sponsored or otherwise in their formative years.

A liberal education could however reduce the ground support available to terrorists. That would at least isolate them. However even in such cases state sponsored terrorism will still succeed.

Dear Mr. Dasgupta

I see your article is well thought of. I enjoyed it particularly because of my interest in the subject of violence and peace.

I have only one minor point to make, if I may. Lots of people emphasize on education and socio-economical status of known terrorist, which is fine but I suppose conditions on the ground that provide an impetus to switch to violent mode of thinking and behavior are very important to consider because those in the leadership roles are only faces of a big underlying unrest, without going into the question of legitimacy right now.

I appreciate what you have rightly pointed out that education is a must but only one of the many necessary elements for peace, among which I shall place the reality of social justice rather high. Wondering how do you see it?

Regards,

Tahir Qazi

#22 sometimes i am more worried about the terrorist apologist than the terrorist..

Re: # 23
Aye, you can only live with your head in the sand so long... And most of these twits with ideas of grandeur never consider that the rights of individuals are as or more important than the rights of the fashion of the moment , they choose to support.

#20 by asfand on June 13, 2006 3:52pm PT

Lets start over..

You: terrorism is caused by despair.

Me: Then how come 15 of the 19 hijackers were saudis..saudis who had access to free health care and free education(something 42million americans don`t have).



Your turn..

Re: # 21
S`all bullshit. Terrorism is caused by silly idiots who have stupid ideas of grandeur, being the chosen one etc, most of the time. Saying that they are oppressed is the same as saying all murderers are actually nice people ostracised by society.

Sometimes the idiots succeed and they are venerated, in course of time when their deeds are whitewashed.

Don`t tell me Bin Laden, Al Zawahiri , Ted Kaczynski, al Zarqawi, Timothy McVeigh etc were desperate for love and all that jazz.

If OBL wanted to make a difference he should have called for abolition of the monarchy in Saudi , called for elections and you betcher he would have been top dog. And if he wanted to fight he should have been kicking the Saudi`s not going around on a global rampage.

There are some who take to terror only as the last resort . However the vast majority are just plain murderers.

If any of these terrorists ever gain any power they will be at each others throats anyway.

Reply to #18

Saudi Arabia is a predominant Muslim country but calling it a Islamic country will be a big mistake. Islamic political system does not support kingdom. Khilafa is very different than a kingdom. Saudi Arabia, as the name suggest is a piece of land that belongs to the Saud family. It is not a Islamic country.

Similarly there are no Islamic countrues in the present world. There are countries where predominant population is Muslim but the law of the land is not Islamic. Pakistan, Bangladesh, Iran, Indonesia, Malysia UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, the list goes on and on.

Asfand Siddiqui

#17 by asfand on June 12, 2006 2:51pm PT


Please replace the political system in India with the political system in Saudi Arabia. You will get ``free health care and education.``


mmmkay..so it`s the Islamist dictatorship form of government that is responsible for the free healthcare and education in saudi arabia...silly me..i thought it was all the oil money..

Re: # 18
no it is the Islamic way and not the oil money. because if that was the case then every country in OPEC will have a feree education system but they dont have it. I know being a Hindu you see the world with tainted eyes but go ask people in Saudi Arabia what they think of their country and most of them will be happy and satisfied. In other countries however they will not be. Also you are from India dude - where most people are frustrated so why point out stupid lies about other countries.

Reply to #16.
``Which is why the 9/11 hijackers were from saudi arabia..yes..that saudi arabia..the country where citizens have free health care and education.. ``

Please replace the political system in India with the political system in Saudi Arabia. You will get ``free health care and education.``


``Yup...whem muslims blow up non-muslims(or lesser muslims), the act isn`t wrong and can be rationalized by alluding to some root cause(usually Islamists).. ``

Just replace the worh muslims with hindus and islamists with hinduism. See what you get.

Asfand Siddiqui

#15 by asfand on June 12, 2006 11:57am PT


Root cause of terrorism is injustice.


Which is why the 9/11 hijackers were from saudi arabia..yes..that saudi arabia..the country where citizens have free health care and education..



In order to curb terrorism, the root Lately causes of the terrorism have to be looked in depth.


Yup...whem muslims blow up non-muslims(or lesser muslims), the act isn`t wrong and can be rationalized by alluding to some root cause(usually Islamists)..

Two sides can play the root cause game..What`s the root cause of Israel bombing beaches in gaza..

Education is definitely not the “magic bullet” to cure terrorism.
Root cause of terrorism is injustice. In any circumstance, once the feeling of injustice, hopelessness, and disparity grows, terrorism happens. Terrorism just not happens because one day something snaps in the brain of an educated person. It happens because the person, educated or uneducated, started to feel the injustice, hopelessness and disparity. In order to curb terrorism, the root Lately causes of the terrorism have to be looked in depth.

Lately, most of the nations are curbing terrorism by force and not looking why terrorism is happening around them. This is very much like a doctor prescribing antibiotics to his patient who has malaria, and not telling him to save himself from mosquito bites. Needless to say that the cure will be short lived. This person may become well for a short while but since the root cause “mosquitoes” are still around this person he will get malaria again. In fact in any society where you will find injustice, you will see violence. These two goes hand in hand.

Asfand Siddiqui

Mr. Dasgupta
Can you tell us how an English history textbook diifers from the other countries by not providing an English identity? As far as I can see the behaviour of English crowds during an England/Germany football match is not great. I`ve seen lots of arms spread out imitation of the RAF bombing Dresden. So assuming you are correct I don`t think having bland history books helps either.

People can develop a sense of persecution from a slight oversight. From that point onwards hating somebody is the next natural step. It`s all in your mental makeup. Some soils nuture it better than others.

And most often the well educated ones hit the headlines because they are the leaders. For every George Habash there are few unknowns who are vapourised by high explosives strapped to themselves.

To ironically quote Grey
Full many a flower is born to blush unseen
And waste it`s sweetness on the desert air.-)-) -)

Coming back to your last sentence do we take your article with a grain of salt.?-)

#11 by rf786 on June 12, 2006 0:23am PT


UAE which comprises of seven emirates is probably one of the most liberal Islamic states


Are you telling us all emirates are as liberal as Dubai?

Re: # 12

{Are you telling us all emirates are as liberal as Dubai?}

Do u believe all RSS guys are nice fellas? If answer is yes, then why not, all emirates are liberal.

rf786 #1

`` You have talked about the individual terrorists, what is your view on the well educated, all powerful elected representatives of the state? Take Dick Cheney for example or Adolph Hitler, both belong to educated backgrounds yet have demonstrated streaks of barabarism without parrallel. Adolph Hitler may have been the reason for 70million dead in WWII, Dick Cheney and his like in modern day are responsible for if not millions, then hundreds of thousands innocent lives lost. When States choose to eliminate other states for whatever reasons, they too are dictated by human beings making those decisions. Bombings of Dresden and Tokyo are another example of excessive brute force which was taken to exact revenge. How do you explain that state of mind? ``

Cheney was a thoughtful person - conservative but decent and reasonable guy. Or at least until 1992 He has gone bonkers as Vice President. I won`t compare him to Hitler.

Re: # 9
Dicke Cheney was a convinient choice, doable would be the correct phrase. Question here is, whether being member of a state protected by its apparatus and sense of righteousness make any difference? Or, places a higher standard of principles relative to rogue individuals?

Bongda,

I agree with your advice/conclusion that education is not a solution.

I believe that what education is different from what education it was. Vid as u know means `to learn`. In oriental societies, pupils and children are taught formally and informally on virtues of goodness. The best example is Mogul Badshah Akber. He was an illeterate but enlightened. Aurangzeb was educated but a terrorist.

Modern education - despite its ability to contribute towards GDP - is not an education of good citizenry, though the norms of civility are taught and encouraged as desirable at many levels in civil societies, at least in the west.

There are two sides of the point a) Conflict and b) Solution. In modern methods 2 is attained thru modern means by democrats and by terror means by barbarians. It`s not only their fault but also that of the world leaders who ignore the democratic solutions (some are genuine, some are imagined). It happnens in all life situations that u wouldn`t get what u want but some people compromise but some dont, eg. Heaven seekers (it`s now a global phenomenon). It was being discussed all over the world and on this rooms for long.

Imagine even if a free Palestine with Jerusalem as capital is created tomorrow, jihad is NOT going to stop. For many it`s a state of mind. As we say in Hyderabad (India) we have 3 seasons: 1. Hot, 2. Hotter and 3. Hottest. Similarly we have 4 seasons in England 1. mild rainy season, 2. rainy season, 3. heavy rainy season and 4. very heavy rainy season.

We have three types of terrorists 1. Soft on terrorists (kinda neutral i.e negative encouragement) 2. Soft terrorists (people who reason that terror is OK, kinda pen- terrorists, u find many on this site) 3. Full-timers (Taliban, Al Qaeda etc).

Thanks to Pakistan we have some homegrown types in India of late.

#5 by ballukhan on June 11, 2006 10:29am PT


liberal scientific education inculcates a sense of dis-belief and healthy scepticism towards one`s beliefs


only in people who are predisposed towards such beliefs..

pakis have had radical islam engineered into their DNA..thanks to a program of indictrination run by the paki army over 3 decades.....

days after sept 11 i saw a bunch of paki school kids - from an elite school, not a madrassah- being interviewed by CBS..the kids were proud of OBL and thought he was a warrior of Islam or something..these aren`t kids stuck in the saudi funded jihad factories...

Re: # 6

``days after sept 11 i saw a bunch of paki school kids - from an elite school, not a madrassah- being interviewed by CBS..the kids were proud of OBL and thought he was a warrior of Islam or something..these aren`t kids stuck in the saudi funded jihad factories...``


the answer to your observation is already given in my previous post. There is no Jehadism in any person`s DNA.....it is the logic of TNT and political Islam that is creating such persons..take away the state sponsposrship of Jehadism and you would certainly find citizens getting the message. These educated children (many of those parents would be now on this board) think it is OK to kill for Jehad because the PAk State encourages Jehadism...........the same is the case with UAE which has a pathetic education system..........roll back these Islamic states and everything would be alright...I said:

``........................ we see these aberrations because states like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia which have been `normalizing` Jehadist Islamist ideologies to create citizens who completely believe the state sponsored `truths` about other cultures despite seeing overwhelming evidence against their ideology............. the problem lies with political Islam practiced in Pakistan and UAE............. roll back all these states into secular political entities and you would see how the Islamists would stop running wild all over the globe and the healthy liberal scepticism becoming part of the muslim psyche...............``

Re: # 8
Political Islam practiced in Pakistan and UAE? Me think u confusing UAE with Saudi Arabia, totally separate states with different styles of Govt. UAE which comprises of seven emirates is probably one of the most liberal Islamic states in the Gulf region and when compared to other major Islamic countries. Need any confirmation, then travel to Dubai and enjoy the liberal atmosphere, its quite refreshing.

Re: # 11

Let me give you the `official` evaluation........... not an Islamist propaganda

Interview with UAE Vice President Sheikh Mohammed Al-Maktoum

Asharq Al-Awsat) There is constant talk about the problems with education in the UAE, and education councils have been set up in Dubai and Abu Dhabi; is this a prelude to a new strategy for managing the educational system in the UAE?

(Sheikh Mohammed) Yes, we do have a problem. Our educational system is not as modern as the rest of the country even though the Education Ministry`s budget is the highest among all ministries and constitutes 36 percent of the federal government`s budget. The average expenditure on a student attending a public school is just as high as expenditure in advanced countries. The UAE boasts one of the world`s highest ratios of students to educational and administrative staff -- there are 12 students to every teacher and administrative employee. The problem is in the educational system`s management, but work is underway to modernize this management. As for the education councils, they feed the education process in the country and are meant to complement the ministry`s efforts, not replace it. We do, as a matter of fact, have a new management strategy, one in which the ministry`s efforts complement those of the councils.

(Asharq Al-Awsat) What is this strategy?

(Sheikh Mohammed) You will find out in due time, but it will transform schools as we know them into attractions for students, and curricula into means of expanding knowledge and encouraging research, analysis, and thought. It will restore the teaching profession`s high reputation and reinstate the teacher`s respect and stature. The days of dictating, memorizing, reprimanding, and saying are long gone. A school`s primary objective is to teach students how to learn, acquire knowledge, think, search, and have the ability to choose between the available and possible alternatives. A school`s mission is to graduate students who believe that education must go on so long as there is life, and that knowledge is renewable. The inventions that were registered in the past 20 years are equivalent in number to all human inventions since the start of history. The process of modernizing education is not an easy one, but we are determined to succeed, and we will set an educational example to be followed.

I completely disagree with the thesis.............with abundant liberal western education for every one Masadi there would be twenty Hamidm`s ..............for every mullah preaching religious inspired violence there would be hundreds of questioning minds who would not be satisfied with the mullah`s rants...............liberal scientific education inculcates a sense of dis-belief and healthy scepticism towards one`s beliefs and this attitude would decimate the totalitarian ideology that is the centre of Islamist propaganda ........................ we see these aberrations because states like Pakistan or Saudi Arabia which have been `normalizing` Jehadist Islamist ideologies to create citizens who completely believe the state sponsored `truths` about other cultures despite seeing overwhelming evidence against their ideology............. the problem lies with political Islam practiced in Pakistan and UAE............. roll back all these states into secular political entities and you would see how the Islamists would stop running wild all over the globe and the healthy liberal scepticism becoming part of the muslim psyche...............

I totally agree -- ``EDUCATION isn`t the Magic Bullet for Terrorists`` -- in fact it`s harmful for educator`s OWN health.....

Look -- with billions of dollars WE EDUCATED them to sic the Russians when they invaded Afghanistan for no apparent reason....

...for the `EDUCATED` terrorists only to come back to GET US when we invaded Iraq -- for no apparent reason.....

you can`t educate the pakiness out of a paki..

School Ties Link Alleged Plotters
Arrested Canadians Had Bonded at Clubs and on Soccer Fields

By Doug Struck
Washington Post Foreign Service
Sunday, June 11, 2006; Page A16

TORONTO -- They were school pals. One is 15. Most are just out of high school, some still in. The 17 boys and men whom Canadian police are calling ``homegrown terrorists`` forged their bonds in student clubs and on school soccer fields, chatted on the Internet, and urged each other to be heroes for their faith.

The arrests last weekend left many Canadians pondering how a country proud of its diverse culture and political moderation could spawn such an apparent interest in violence. Especially by people so young.

The school ties have some people here asking if Canada`s attempt to accommodate all faiths and backgrounds -- many Canadian schools offer rooms for Friday prayers and foster Muslim student clubs -- is encouraging religious divisions. Some of the clubs ``are very conservative, very judgmental,`` said Rizwana Jafri, a Muslim and an administrator at a Toronto-area high school. ``Young people are looking for a group to belong to, and religion plays into that. It`s almost cult-like.``

Suspect Saad Khalid, now 19, is typical of those charged. At Meadowvale Secondary School, he was bright and outgoing in his early high school years, fellow students told reporters last week. His father, a technology professional from Pakistan, lived in Saudi Arabia before coming to Canada 10 years ago. The family recently moved to a brick townhouse in one of the new suburban developments being carved out of farmland in Mississauga, a spreading suburban town west of Toronto.

In 2003, Khalid`s mother died in an accident. In the following years, he became more strident about his Muslim faith. He formed athe Religious Awareness Club to preach Islam during lunch hours at the Meadowvale school. He spent time with two older classmates, Fahim Ahmad, now 21, and Zakaria Amara, 20, the government contends.

Gradually, they gravitated to the Al-Rahman Islamic Center, a storefront mosque in a small strip mall in Mississauga. There they met Qayyam Abdul Jamal, 43, a taciturn Pakistani native with an angry view of the world. He cleaned the rugs and took out the trash at the mosque. For those services, the directors tolerated his vitriolic speeches that portrayed Muslims as oppressed by the West, according to people familiar with the mosque.

``Many people who worked with him thought he was just a loudmouth,`` said Tariq Shah, a lawyer who represents the mosque. ``In retrospect, maybe it was wrong that he wasn`t taken more seriously.``

Of course education is not the magic bullet. In fact, for most terrorists and their ``intellectual`` soulmates, it is the magic potion which gives them cover.

There is no bigot like an educated bigot!

Dasgupta Sahib,

Thankyou for a thoroughly enjoyable, well written and balanced article.

You have talked about the individual terrorists, what is your view on the well educated, all powerful elected representatives of the state? Take Dick Cheney for example or Adolph Hitler, both belong to educated backgrounds yet have demonstrated streaks of barabarism without parrallel. Adolph Hitler may have been the reason for 70million dead in WWII, Dick Cheney and his like in modern day are responsible for if not millions, then hundreds of thousands innocent lives lost. When States choose to eliminate other states for whatever reasons, they too are dictated by human beings making those decisions. Bombings of Dresden and Tokyo are another example of excessive brute force which was taken to exact revenge. How do you explain that state of mind?