> Each word of the father’s response, whose son was beheaded, made me honor the
> goodness of human spirit. ...
You are right. This is the human spirit. Alternately called the non-muslim spirit.

> Zarqawi also resorted to violence but still he was a human who got killed....
Wrong. He was a h0m0 Islamus. You should be knowing that this is a different species then
the h0m0 sapiens.

Dear Tahir,

Here`s another paradox: A much stronger nation bombs your family and relatives then tells you they are there for your benefit, how do we resolve this conflict?

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,11069-2215854,00.html


Sergeant Nazim Abdul Karriem, 87, a veteran of the Second World War, prays in the newly dedicated Islamic Prayer Center (MICHAEL TEMCHINE)

Marines open Islamic prayer centre

By Tom Baldwin

The military is hoping that prayers and education may help to restore some of its reputation

Excerpt:
He singled out Nazim Abdul Karriem, a former US servicemen who was seated in the front row and took part in the D-Day landings in Normandy 62 years ago. Mr England asked the 87-year-old veteran to stand and take a bow, but he might have been a little more circumspect if he had spoken to Mr Karriem first. Mr Karriem converted in 1956 and later became involved in Malcolm X’s Nation of Islam.

What did he think about the Iraq war? “I see it as a war against Islam. We have had this before with the Crusades. We have occupied land which does not belong to us,” Mr Kariem told The Times. Should the Taleban have been allowed to remain in power over Afghanistan? “Well, it’s their country,” he replied.

Zia-ul-Haq=Shaheed
PAF Fokker Crash=Shaheed
Nishter Park 57=Shaheed
Zalzala Zadgan=Shaheed
Many more died accidently or killed by dacoits etc=Shaheed

BUT

Zarqawi=Hilaak

The media is free to define who is hilaak and who is Shaheed.

Re: # 4
Zia ul Haq=got what he deserved
Zalzala zadgan=victims of mother natures vagaries
Zarqawi=mass murderer, better late than never.....

#all
Now ..now..
here is one more ``ordinary good and upright`` muslim tying himself up in knots..

For what?
To be able to say ...(without feeling guilty in his conscience) ...that killing zarqawi was somehow wrong!!

The guy is all ``mushy`` about it...
His ``intellect`` is NOT allowing him to ..so all this wordy stuff before coming to the conclusion his ``muslim heart`` wants..

``Oh you impious kafir guys``...
``Zarkawi has been killed...(sob)!!``
``But you see he may have painfully beheaded many...so what...``
``he was a human being too..``
(quote for emotional support michael berg who is obviously suffering from the severest for of stockholm syndrom and has gone into the peace mode permenanently)..
``So there too bad we have ended up killing a (muslim) human being..so what if he was a jehadi wretch?``...
sob & more sobs..bohooo etc

Wah bhai mante hain in islamiyaon ko!
Itne pakke ``islamic world view ke goggles hon to aur kya chahiye?``
No spin doctors needed...

And these are ``oh so ordinary upright`` good muslims!!

Hai na kamal ki baat?
Wonders never cease in this ``thru the looking glass`` world of Islam..
jayen

[I did not know what to feel about the death of the most dreaded murderer and terrorist.]

Perhaps you SHOULD have known - then there would be one less thing wrong with your thinking.

This is like drug addiction. Even when intellectually you are aware that it is harmful to you,
you still can not stay away from it and find excuses for it.

Even when you are aware of the wrongs done, you can not admit to it because it is hard wired into you brain from childbirth that anything done in the name of Islam can not be wrong.

Come out and say `I am glad that S O B who brutally killed so may people on camera is dead and thankfully can not shed innocent blood any more`.

The author gave non-judgemental piece of article.

Dear friends, those who feel courageous see the full video of a sample beheading of Zarqawi.

http://www.ogrish.com/archives/ken_bigley_video_kenneth_bigley_beheading_video_Oct_10_2004.html

Zarqawi is a beast, a criminal who was operating behind the excuse of religion. He was beheading Shias in the same way. He also beheaded many many people from Iraq, Turkey, Egypt as well (all are Sunni Arabs). To make it worse Zarqawi, the beast and his cronies cry Allah Ho Akber and flaunt the head of the dead victim. Anybody from Jamat Ud Dawah (Pakistan`s over-ground terrorists) who believes that Zarqawi is a good man should undergo the same process and feel.

All human beings believe in one thing, i.e anthropocentrism. Beheading is the cruellest form of killing. Any person who does this is not fit to be called a human beung. Infact Zarqawi he`s lucky that he died without knwoing that he`s dying.

For strange reasons of subcointinetal follies this beheading became silamic. Talibans are now doing this routinely.

#3 by echoboom on June 11, 2006 2:04am PT



Should the Taleban have been allowed to remain in power over Afghanistan? “Well, it’s their country,” he replied.


You could say the same thing about Nazi Germany..

Micheal Berg is a fruitcake using his son`s death as a sword to attack critics and as a shield when he`s criticized..

Paki parliament and paki government sponsored terrorist group mourned the terrorist zarqawi..color me shocked!!

EDITORIAL: Our quest for a ‘soft image’ and our love for Al Zarqawi don’t square

President Pervez Musharraf on Friday directed the Ministry of Information and Broadcasting and other relevant departments to highlight the “soft image” of Pakistan in the country and abroad. As he spoke, the National Assembly was busy doing just the opposite. The Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) demanded that the house offer fateha for the soul of Abu Musa’b Al Zarqawi. MMA legislators Maulana Ghafoor Haideri and Dr Farid Paracha wanted to call down blessings on Al Zarqawi. The speaker prevented the embarrassing situation from getting out of hand by quoting the rules, which say the house could offer fateha only on the demise of a present or former member of parliament or his relatives.

In Lahore, however, President Musharraf’s “favourite” jihadi outfit, Jamaat ud Dawa, offered a special namaz-e-janaza in absentia for the Shia-killer from Jordan and condemned the statement by the Foreign Office that the death of Al Zarqawi was an important milestone in the war against terrorism. The prayer was led by the Dawa leader Hafiz Saeed while the congregation cried their heart out for the dead man.

That Al Zarqawi killed Shiites in Iraq did not matter, which in itself is quite revealing. Those who mourned him forgot that he also killed some Pakistanis working in Iraq. This is the kind of internal extremism that hurts Pakistan and demonstrates how most of us are involved in sectarianism despite our assertions to the contrary. The Shia party inside the MMA should have protested the folly of Maulana Haideri and Dr Paracha in asking the National Assembly to bless the memory of the man. But it didn’t. And this is not all.

The High Court in Karachi recently acquitted two doctors of helping Al Zarqawi “because the police failed to make a good case against them”. Dr Akmal Waheed and Dr Arshad Waheed had kept Al Zarqawi in their house in Karachi and looked after him and then sent him to South Waziristan for his journey to Afghanistan. The two Karachi doctors were revealed as Jandullah members by the Jandullah leader, Ataullah. The doctors had admitted that they were members of Jandullah and that they had provided medical aid to Al Qaeda and sent men to be trained as Al Qaeda activists to Nek Muhammad in Wana through his brother. The doctors had also admitted that they had maintained their relationship with the Jamiat Talaba Islam till late.

It is our bad luck that, apart from President Musharraf, no one else in the PMLQ or opposition wants to “soften” Pakistan’s image. The opposition is advocating defiance in the face of “American imperialism” and, since the “soft image” routine is alleged to be linked somehow to the enterprise of sucking up to the United States, everyone wants a “hard image” instead. Of course, very little attention is paid to the national economy which desperately needs a “soft image” internationally to flourish. In many ways the national economy clashes with the objectives of the Pakistani national polity and its textbook nationalism. The emotion behind all nationalisms is isolationist and all nationalisms seek an external enemy to achieve internal cementation through the vision of a just war.

The economy wants peace at all cost; it abhors isolationism, and will not accept the condition of war. Also, where nationalism rejects self-analysis, the economy works only through self-analysis. The truth is that our “hard image” is not projected falsely by “Western media”. Our image is what we are, as proved by the Al Zarqawi incident above. No one is clear about what Pakistan should be — not even President Musharraf, who talks of a “soft image” but doesn’t show the will or ability to roll back the hard image and its manifestations. *

``I did not know what to feel about the death of the most dreaded murderer and terrorist. I thought I should feel something``(author)

``the most dreaded murderer and terrorist``!

well sir -- that is a almost a compliment for a small time thug and hit man trained to slit throats by its once upon a time God father Uncle Sam in Murder Inc. Afghanisten --

.....for Iraq really the misplaced compliment should belong to its rightful owner -- the Haditha killer and the Fallujah demolisher -- George Bush...

for Zarqawi one can only say what Ghalib would say -- Jaan dee dee huwee usee ki thee -- Bundagee meiN meraa bhalaa nu hoowaa...

translation: the Lord (Uncle Sam) giveth and the Lord (Uncle Bush) taketh away -- that`s all...

Haroon Siddiqui:
Editor for over 20 years of Canada`s oldest, largest, and most respected Newspaper.
Recipient of Order of Canada.

Received master`s in english from URDU-university Hyderabad; a Hafiz-i-Quraan, Madresaa educated ( entire family hafiz-i-Quraan--an ancestoral tradition); Starts speeches with Bismillah & Quraani Aayaats.

Did not study english in Canada. Speaks in thick original pristine Hyderabadi-Urdu accents.
Is admired by one & all for his knowledge, wisdom, and for retaining his language & culture.

---

Each & Every `` Great`` produced in Pakistan & Prepakistan was educated at a Madressa; even Jinnah ( Sindh Madresa-tul-Islam , Karachi & Anjumani-Islam Bombay). The totaa mainaa schools have only produced SERVANTS to operate corporations & bureacracies...where brains are secondary & ass-kissing paramount; for ``progress`` and ``advancement``

---

Muslim-bashing dilutes our democratic values
Fears spans bigotry, which endangers Canadian values, says Haroon Siddiqui
Jun. 11, 2006. 01:00 AM
HAROON SIDDIQUI



Bigotry increases in times of trouble, as we have seen in our own age.
An anti-French backlash was palpable in English Canada when bilingualism was introduced in 1969 and a year later we had the FLQ crisis. I felt it in the Prairies when the paper I worked for, The Brandon Sun, had the foresight and courage to support the Official Languages Act and oppose the War Measures Act.

The recession of the early 1990s stoked anger at multiculturalism and helped spawn the anti-immigrant Reform party.

The 1990 Oka crisis, the 1999 Mi`kmaq fisheries dispute in Nova Scotia and the Nisga`a land deal in British Columbia led to charges that ``race-based rights`` for First Nations would undermine common Canadian values.

On all those occasions, as also during the recent standoff in Caledonia, pessimists said racism lurks just below the surface and can bubble up any time. Congenital optimists like myself dismiss such episodes as aberrations, confident that the Canadian social equilibrium will always reassert itself.

The post-9/11 period, even while helping Canada become more Canadian, is slowly Americanizing our public discourse. It has fanned an anti-Islamism that resembles the old anti-Catholicism and anti-Semitism.

The arrest of 17 Muslims on terrorism charges has made matters worse, and also rekindled the debate on multiculturalism: Are we being too tolerant of different cultures? Do we instill enough ``Canadian values?`` Should we make newcomers sign a code of ethics?

Quebec once flirted with just such ``a social contract`` between immigrants and ``the host society.`` But it had to give up the hare-brained idea.

We already have a social contract. It is the rule of law. That is our common holy parchment, bonding the native-born and the foreign-born together. Anything else is populist humbug. Or an attempt by the powerful to dictate to the weak.

The latest hand-wringing on multiculturalism and its first cousin, immigration, in reality is a debate about Muslims.

When some people say we must rethink immigration, they are not talking about the problem of economic integration of newcomers. They are pointing fingers at Muslims: Do these bearded men and burqa-clad women — their infinitely small number magnified by the media — belong in Canada?

Yes, they do. Similar doubts were raised earlier about Catholics, Orthodox Jews and others.

Muslims are no less integrated than other comparable groups. In fact, evidence points to higher levels of education and lower rates of crime among them.

Yet there`s a drumbeat of Muslim-bashing, conflating the criminality of a few with all. This assertion of collective guilt takes many forms.

Any time some Muslims somewhere commit an atrocity, a chorus of voices demands of Muslims everywhere: ``What do you have to say about this?``

They should have to say nothing more than Christians or Jews or Hindus must for the wrongs of their co-religionists. As Lieutenant-Governor James Bartleman rightly said: ``We would not condemn the Italian community because of the Mafia. We would not condemn the Irish community because of the IRA.`` Or Serb Canadians for the ethnic cleansing in the former Yugoslavia in the name of religious nationalism.

Muslims are also told to ``take responsibility`` for their deviants, ``root out the extremists,`` ``weed out the radicals,`` etc.

How are they supposed to do that? By becoming vigilantes?

Which self-appointed busybodies will use what yardstick to define ``a radical,`` an ``extremist`` or ``a Wahhabi?``

George W. Bush`s first attorney-general, John Ashcroft, an openly Islamophobic Christian fundamentalist, proposed a program to ask Americans to snitch on fellow citizens. It was condemned as a totalitarian tool reminiscent of the old Communist states — and was dropped.

Yet, here we are, suggesting about the same thing in Canada.

That some Muslims also support it does not make it any more right. They may want their own version of ``liberal`` Islam to prevail. Some of us might want it, too. But it is no business of the state, or the media, to take sides in theological turf wars.

It is laudable that many Muslim leaders and groups are, voluntarily, offering to help in figuring out an early detection system to identify militant deviancy, especially among the young.

But it is the responsibility of the state to ferret out and prosecute criminals, whether they invoke religion or not.

Fear spawns bigotry. Whatever hurt it might be causing the beleaguered Muslim community, it poses a greater danger to the principles that make Canada what it is: the envy of the world.

---

Haroon Siddiqui, the Star`s editorial page editor emeritus, appears Thursday and Sunday. hsiddiq@thestar.ca.

#13 by echoboom on June 11, 2006 10:42am PT

aww..the mounties busted paki terrorists...poor paki`s feelings were hurt, were they?


Muslims are also told to ``take responsibility`` for their deviants, ``root out the extremists,`` ``weed out the radicals,`` etc.
How are they supposed to do that? By becoming vigilantes?


by ratting on the saudi preacher who preaches jihad..It`s like Sean Connery says in ``The untouchables``..everyone knows where the booze is..

muslims are to blame for sure..they know who the people buying/selling the jihad videos are..

http://www.cbc.ca/story/canada/national/2006/06/08/amiruddin08062006.html

Teacher witnessed transformation of some bomb-plot suspects

Amiruddin says Khalid used to come to his mosque to pray, sometimes in the company of Zakaria Amara and Fahim Ahmad, two of the alleged ringleaders.

``They would enter into the mosque to pray, and they would pray in a very aggressive manner, and they would come in military fatigues and military touques and stuff. It looked to me that they were watching a lot of those Chechnyan jihad videos online and stuff.``

Amiruddin is a teacher of Sufism, a traditional brand of Islam that rejects the ideology of jihad. Amiruddin says the group was seduced by hardline propaganda financed by the Saudi government and promoting a strict, Wahhabi brand of Islam.

He says the Saudis have flooded Canada with free Qur`ans, laced with jihadist commentary.

``In the back of these Qur`ans that are being published in Saudi Arabia, you have basically essays on the need for offensive jihad and the legitimacy of offensive jihad and things like that. Very alarming stuff,`` he said.

Amiruddin said many mainstream Muslim organizations in Canada are really part of the problem, standing by as extremist propaganda spreads in the mosques.

He cites the Al-Rahman centre in Mississauga, Ont., which he links to the Al-Maghrib Institute, which runs a popular educational website. It`s nominally run out of Ottawa, but Amiruddin says it`s really a Saudi operation.

School Ties Link Alleged Plotters

Gradually, they gravitated to the Al-Rahman Islamic Center, a storefront mosque in a small strip mall in Mississauga. There they met Qayyam Abdul Jamal, 43, a taciturn Pakistani native with an angry view of the world. He cleaned the rugs and took out the trash at the mosque. For those services, the directors tolerated his vitriolic speeches that portrayed Muslims as oppressed by the West, according to people familiar with the mosque.

#14...(wrt #13)....
Arjun_m these guys are really addicted to the opiate called religion..
Like the japanese who learnt the hard way...about americans....These jehadists will too...
Japan at least ``stood on its legs`` ...(manufactured its own aircraft carriers / planes/ subs..all way back in 1940s.

These guys have only scowls , inflated egos and ideology as weapons!
Like zarqawi, these buggers will fry ``they wont know what hit them (and from where)``..to use mushy`s own words!

The fellows eat western food ..(namak) and bite the hand that feeds them...
typical shameless wretches & hypocrites that they are.

Jayen

Re: # 15
>>>>The fellows eat western food ..(namak) and bite the hand that feeds them...
typical shameless wretches & hypocrites that they are<<<<<<<<




http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 06 11 story_11-6-2006_pg3_6

Sunday, June 11, 2006

VIEW: Pakistan: foreign aid or band aid? — Ahmad Faruqui


......................In addition to World Bank aid, Pakistan is expected to receive some $600 million of US aid annually, split equally between economic and military applications. According to the US Congressional Research Service, Pakistan has received a total of $15 billion in US foreign aid since independence. Between 2002-05, it also received $3.6 billion in US aid for counter-terrorism operations, most probably as a grant requiring no repayment of principal or interest. Between 2001-07, Pakistan is estimated to receive $4.4 billion in US aid, of which 29 percent will be for financing military supplies..................