Ayaan Ali Hirsi and the Big Bad Wolf

IMO, Churchill`s opinion was the ``orientalist`` opinion of a century ago which one guesses Muslims like Bin Laden have themselves bought into as their self-image, a bit like if hindoos bought into Kiplingesque ``orientalist`` cariacatures of themselves as ``natives``(actually Kipling was among the more understanding of the orientalists).

For example, ``sluggish habits of commerce`` particularly doesn`t fit for example Gulf Arabs in the 20th century. Let us not forget Churchill created a lot of the current problems in the Middle East with his ``creation of nations before lunch`` attitude.

Ultimately people ought to be judged by their own actions not by what some dead white guy they never met said long ago(and this applies to religion too).

``So maybe Lord Churchill wasnt right all of the time.``

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it seems an akward way of admitting that he might be right some times...particular this time under discussion?

Re: # 344

tahmed:

even after all those posts, if you choose to remain blindfolded, then so be it.

as i said earlier, i can bring you to the water, i can`t drink it for you

bye bye ``closet mullah``..............


also, this is your latest eg. ``So maybe Lord Churchill wasnt right all of the time.``

yeah..... churhill was also a hindoo who was taught to hate muslims.

guys guys...don`t get mad at Bina...Bina is probably alright a person...this is her annual I-am-muslim-too article..we know many muslim writers have to throw one of these once in a while to redeem themselves in the eyes of their ummah..or their own peers and immediate family....some times it is guilt of living a good life....even our Hamidm sahib has to throw mandateory rat worshiping dark hindus disclaimer in his posts once in a while...without such disclaimers what will people like Hamidm and Bina be? just another Arjun, gujju or at the best a Sadna. :)

BUT her biggest crime is to justify the murder of Theo Van Gogh...cast the blame on Hirsi Ali for it and indrectly instigiate the justification of such behaviour of killing people you don`t agree with. I think this is inexcusable..particularly since she claims to be a writer herself. Biggest weapon a writer has the truth..not the half truth. She had used half truth about Hirsi Ali (about her immigration scandal) and ingnored the whole truth of Hirsi Ali.

Bina,

What dismays me about muslims and Islam is NOT Taliban and fundoos like Osama.....

But, ``educated``, ``freethinkers``, ``liberals`` like you. What dishonesty!

Such pettiness - instead of indulging in Hirsa`s application - who hasn`t lied on an application......

Why can`t your or don`t you spend energy on criticising the stagnant and evil practices of Islam/muslims?

#343 Dont give me this ``reason you have been called a ``closet mullah```` bullshit!!

You said I was a closet mullah. I told you to cut and paste what one needs to write to qualify for this honor.

You have failed to do that.

Thus proving that it is you who is hiding in the closet. And I`ll tell you what it is: Because you are afraid to come out and say that all it takes to become an evil ``mullah`` in your eyes (and for the rest of your kind from the hate ridden environment you were raised in) is to refuse to disrespect a religion.

And despite what people like you raised in the cesspool of hatred in India like to think, ``Muslim`` is not a dirty word for the rest of the world.

Re: # 336

tahmed:

reason you have been called a ``closet mullah`` are that you are an apologist for the islamic cause, hiding/altering the bad news and advertising the ``better`` ones.

as we say in hindustani, ``samaz ne wale ko esara kafi hai``, it speaks a lot of you.

instead of calling a spade a spade you would indulge in skullduggery.

when without any credible explanation you will go on to define new terms like ``direction the koran points to``, whatever that means.

you are blowing the trumpet about the bright side i.e. ``policies benefical to women which were not given for the next 1000 years`` but would stay mum about other retrogade policies like polygamy, spanking, rape testimonials, burkha.

instead on waiting for a ``cut and paste`` answer this. let every one judge you from your reply.

what would you call a person who has nailed a maid while being married, has married a kid, has kidnapped and forcibly confined women and made them sexual slaves.

your answer will speak a lot about your being a man from the ``age of reason``.

hence don`t chicken out this time.

nasah #341 Churchill also referred to Gandhi is a half-naked faqir. Didnt mean Gandhi was improperly dressed, nor does it mean that he was a beggar. He also said he wasnt going to preside of the end of the British Empire. And he ended up not presiding over anything when he lost elections and the British decided to say goodbye to their Empire.

So maybe Lord Churchill wasnt right all of the time.

Raw -- where did you get this gem of Chuchillian qoute -- that stuttering Imperialist son of of a beech seemed to know the Muslims inside out --

a giant of English prose his insightful description of Muslim Psyche in a few weighty and precise sentences is simply awe inspiring -- no wonder the diehard colonialist wanted His Majesty to stay in the subcontient for ever.....

``How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy.``

couldn`t be a better description of Osama bin Laden and his kind of Islam

``The effects are apparent in many countries:
Improvident habits,
slovenly systems of agriculture,
sluggish methods of commerce,
and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live.``

``A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

``a degraded sensulaism`` -- of a Muslim man -- that incites him to force the woman to cover up -- what a majestic phrase and so accurate...!

``The fact that in Mohammedans law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery......until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men.``

Couldn`t describe Muslim misogyne any better...

``Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities, but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.`` -- 100% unblemished truth...!

``No stronger retrograde force exists in the world.`` -- 200% true..!

``Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytising faith.`` -- 300% true

``It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising FEARLESS WARRIORS at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science, the science against which it had vainly struggled, the civilization of modern Europe might fall,........``

What an insightful man! -- each and every characterization of the Muslims done so long ago is right on the target -- when there was no Jihadism disease as rampant as it is now -- he even predicted the upcoming Jihadi frenzy and its war with the West!!

the most marvellous observation is that SCIENCE will protect West from Islam -- SCIENCE as THE weapon of Exorcism for Christian West to ward off Islam -- (as if Islam was/is an evil spirit trying to possess West) -- funny but how accurate!

It also defines and illuminates the meaning of Islamization as an antithesis of Science and REASON.-- as never before....

Raw you have done a great service to Chowk -- if there are any more Churchillian passages on Islam please post it on Chowk....

as a sworn anti colonialist I hated the imperialist bastard all my life but – for once his astute weighty uniquely accurate observations on Islam and Muslims -- make me revise my opinion of the guy – give a new respect for the intellect of the man who saved the world from Fascism --

Churchill was indeed a great writer and a great observer of people their cultures and their countries....despite his narrow diehard colonial politics….

Kulharee #338 Please dont make fun of the inmates.

hamidm: you keep referring to me as an ``apologist`` for Islam, or a ``muslim apologist``.

Where do you see me apologizing for being a muslim? I am in fact very comfortable with being a muslim.

You say I am an apologist for ``Islam`s excesses`` (I will ignore the irrationality inherent in attributing animate actions to inanimate concepts): Where do you see me apologizing for any excess? How many times do I need to condemn the abuse of women (irrespective of ``reason`` given, religious or otherwise) before you will finally get it?? Or is it simply more convenient to refuse to acknowledge what I am saying?

Re: # 335

Finally some good news from Turkey, our Muslim brother. Good thing that they are not licking Euro ass for an entry into the exclusive EU club. They should never lick Euro ass, and join the rest of the Ummah in promoting the cause of Islam. Europe can go to hell.

Echoboom. Thanks for sharing. May Allah give you three additional virgins for this good deed.

echosqueek: Time for your afternoon pills, I think.

Time to put the KanjarRs under the guises of Secularoon, Liberaloon, & Munafiquoon under shariah law.

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Religions unite to bash gays

Wednesday, 05 July 2006

PETER HACKNEY

In a rare display of religious unity, Christians, Jews and Muslims have united to condemn plans to hold World Pride 2006 in Israel.

The queer pride event is scheduled to run from August 6-12 in Jerusalem, a city of great religious significance for all three faiths. 365gay.com reports that religious representatives have called on political leaders to ban the event and have threatened participants with violence.

The Jerusalem Post reported that The Vatican’s representative to Israel, Monsignor Antonio Franco, met with Jerusalem Mayor Uri Lupolianski to demand that the city stop the event. “This is [a case of] the will of the few imposing their will on the majority”, claimed Franco, who said that he was working with Jewish and Muslim leaders to stop World Pride.

Jewish Rabbi Yehuda Levin told a Jerusalem news conference, “We are faced with the prospect of six days of promiscuity and debauchery unparalleled in the Middle East”. Levin said that the decision to hold World Pride in Jerusalem was tantamount to “the spiritual rape of Jerusalem,” declaring, “This is not the homoland, this is the holy land.”

Muslim cleric, Sheik Ibrahim Sarsur, told reporters that, “If they [gays] dare to approach the Temple Mount during the parade, they will do so over our dead bodies.”

PinkNews.co.uk reported that Jerusalem Police are considering banning the event amid fears of bloodshed. Jerusalem Police Chief Ilan Franco and Israeli Internal Security Minister Avi Dichter have held talks on the possibility of banning the event, with a statement on their intentions imminent as SX went to press.

Netizen #326 You say you are disappointed by my replies. My replies have been simple - you said what I wrote made me an evil ``mullah`` (and a hypocritical one at that, i.e. ``closet mullah``).

In response I have been asking you to cut and paste what I have written to deserve this honor. You have consistently failed to do that. Instead you come back with irrelevant stuff - like how you are disappointed in me.

Try to be less clever and more honest, and you might find my replies to be less disappointing.

More Mirchi material for the Secularoons, Liberaloons, and Munafiquoons aka KanjarRs.

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Majority of Turks Oppose Hijab Ban, Back Gov`t

IslamOnline.net & News Agencies


The majority supported Erdogan`s efforts to relax hijab ban on students and civil servants.

ANKARA — The majority of Turks are satisfied with the performance of Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan`s government and are opposed to the official ban on hijab in public offices and universities, according to a poll published on Wednesday, June 14.

The poll, conducted by Isik and Sabanci universities in Istanbul, found that two thirds of the 1,846 people polled in more than 20 towns and cities support Erdogan`s efforts to ease hijab ban on students and civil servants, Reuters reported.

The mainly Muslim country of 72 million has a strongly secular political tradition.

In 1997, President Ahmet Necdet Sezer issued a decree banning hijab in state-run institutions, including schools and universities.

Hijab-donned women were also banned from frequenting any social clubs affiliated to the military institution.

Even veiled journalists have been repeatedly prevented from covering news conferences inside government institutions.

Many in Turkey`s military, academic and judicial establishment view this ban as a key pillar of Turkey`s secular order.

Islam sees hijab as an obligatory code of dress, not a religious symbol displaying one’s affiliations.

Conservative

The poll, conducted in March and April, showed that the majority of Turks were more conservative on social and moral issues.

Three fifths of those interviewed attributed failure in life to a lack of religious faith.

Nearly a third said boys and girls should be taught in separate classes at school.

They also opposed allowing their Muslim daughters to marrying non-Muslims.

Nearly half of the respondents said tourists spoil Turkish morality and harm its culture.

They voiced unease with the spectacle of naked or near-naked tourists soaking up the sun at Turkish resorts.

Nearly a third of those polled expressed dissatisfaction with the democratic process in the country.

More than half said they were happy with the government of the ruling Justice and Development party.

Turkey faces a general election by November 2007.

Forty percent of those polled said they would prefer a military-led government and nearly a third expressed dissatisfaction with the democratic process.

Turkey`s powerful armed forces traditionally rank as the institution most respected by Turks.

The military has ousted democratically elected governments four times in the past 50 years but has seen its powers trimmed by EU-backed reforms.

The poll also confirmed falling support for joining the 25-member euro club, down to 57 percent from 74 percent a few years ago.

The European Union and Turkey officially kickstarted on Monday, June 12, the long-awaited accession talks, the most important cornerstone of membership process, after EU foreign ministers overcame last-minute objections from Cyprus.

Turkey has been trying to join the European club since the 1960s.