Ayaan Ali Hirsi and the Big Bad Wolf

re. masadi: ``Now, the 3, hit them cannot injure them, it is meant to be symbolic, if there is injury that violates another law which states that for injury there is equal retaliation.``

This is silly. What is the point in hitting someone with injuring? And what the heck is `symbolic` hitting anyway? The law, by the way does not state that there is equal retaliation allowed only for `injury`, by which i presume you mean injury of a more lasting, serious, nature. The law provides for retaliation for ANY act of unlawfuldarb. Clearly, the darb in this case (whether or not it causes serious injury), is lawful and would not conflict with the law(s) governing unlawful injury.

``In that context to PROTECT the woman so that she is not put out in an economically harsh environment, helpless..``

So do you agree that the Qur`anic reccomendations (some would say allowances) are merely situational, and have no place in an economically neutral or felicitous environment for women?

Awaiting your comments to this and my previous posts...

rgds,
PM

hamidm/masadi: Not to barge into this Battle of the Geniuses...but has either one of you given some thought to the fact that we are talking 7th century here. When people were not as sophisticated as you gentlemen?? So if the Quran talked about it being a man striking a women (and lets not get hung up on hair-splitting, masadi), lets acknowledge that by today`s standards that is disgusting.

But, as individuals like Karen Armstrong (no doubt a lesser scholar of Islam than Hamidm) note, the Quran also gave women rights that were way ahead of their time and they were not given to women until 1,000 years later.

So, O learned ones, I suggest you use an ounce of common sense (which may be below your scholarship level, I admit). And look at the direction the Quran pointed to. And that was certainly the direction of fairness and justice to all, and a kinder, gentler world (to use Bush I`s famous words). And so today, a guy who hits a woman is a creep of course, but also a criminal guilty of assault.

But dont let me interrupt this Debate of the Champions. It is too much fun.

ShoreSahib: I appreciate where you are coming from, but ``mud`` is not the accurate word. To give these ..er...geniuses (i.e. Netizen/hamidm/masadi)...their due, they dont write ``mud``. Merely...er....brilliant stuff. :-)

Netizen: Would you care to cut and paste what I wrote that makes me a ``mullah``? Your response will help me provide you the clarification you seek.

masadi madness :

......... this man is one devious snake ! ...... just take a load of this crap : ``In that context to PROTECT the woman so that she is not put out in an economically harsh environment, helpless, the Quran asks the man to overlook and maintain the marriage by following 1,2,3, including a very rational arbitration system. The 3, the word darab without any qualifier means hit or strike- i will not spin in, it does not have 35 meanings in this stand alone fashion, and taking it to mean seperate from them makes 2 redundant, it just does not work. Now, the 3, hit them cannot injure them, it is meant to be symbolic, if there is injury that violates another law which states that for injury there is equal retaliation. Now all this is for the benefit and the protection of women, where the man is asked to control himself and be overly generous in the face of extra marital affair.``

....... first of all he insults all women by implying that they need protection as if we are still liivng in caves and running away from dinosaurs ........ why doesn`t this AH (this is the first, and perhaps last, time i am using this abbreviation which mullah masadi has coined) ..... why doesn`t this AH realize that the modern woman is more than capable of taking care of herself economically and really doesn`t need a man other than to mow her yard and load the diswasher ........ as a matter of fact, given the choice between a grunting mullah with bad breath and a modern vibrator, most women will probably choose a vibrator !

... next? ..... what is this nonsense about hitting without hurting ? ........ does the AH masadi (this is the third and last time) really think it is possible ...... and if it is not possible, then why even talk about darabing or whatever it is that bedouins did to their women ?!.......... most muslims today are a bunch of illiterate fools and will probably buy these supercilious and spurious arguments, but i hope the chowk crowd is a little better than that even if they are given to unnecessarily upending themselves five times a day .......... so, how do you hit without hurting - use a feather ?! ........... this is too kinky !.......... tickle her with a feather until she begs for mercy or an orgasm !! ........... sounds good to me, if that is what masadi means .......... and if that is what he means, then he is not an AH ............ okay no more profanity ... promise ..........

............ and then there is bina shah who thinks her interpretation of the koran will win out over mullah masadi`s version !.......... i assume she belongs to the farhat hashmi cult and we will soon see her on tv extolling the virtues of polygamy while stirring a big pot of dal for the twenty one children in her extended family ........... what a waste of a perfectly good woman !

#260 by sadna on July 4, 2006 1:44pm PT

I have no problem with people who think I`m going to hell..I DO have a problem with people who want to hasten the process by bombing subways and flying planes into buildings..

#262 by ShoreSahib

[…What the heck is a sex pear?]

O sahib of that dirty mind – are you shore you don’t know?!

Now, don’t you go about drawing associations with bodily functions and inanimate fruits!

Nuts! (Oops!)

Where the heck is your imagination, sir?

Isn’t the connection with Shakespeare quite obvious?!!

tahmed:

Its good to know that you have moved out of ``primitive`` hindu culture. but you didn`t tell which other ``primitive`` culture you have adopted.

or are you already one of the ``scientists`` in the ``age of reason``.

in that case what would you make of a married person who has nailed his maid, married a kid, slept with his ``adopted`` son`s wife. has been involved with kidnaping and forcible confinement of women, making sex-slaves of them....

how would ``age of reason`` describe these activities?

Re: # 261
I have no idea what you mean?

What the heck is a sex pear?

#256 by ShoreSahib

[…We expect so much better from you...]

Yes, sex pear for example!

arjun_m#231
``i`m merely making the point that there`s a lot of people besides the islamofascists who make the idiotic assumption that there`s a heaven and only their people are going there..``

Yup, I am going to Christian Jewish and Muslim hells, and perhaps each Protestant denomination has its own subdivision of hell too which I will be sent to by this long queue of people who have all the answers regarding my afterlife.

My concern is with this world- the implicit assumption underlying such discussions is that the Quran being immutable, your status in this world too can legitimately be specified by what the Quran says. Why should people be discriminated against here on earth for their belief or disbelief regarding the Quran - this question is nowhere addressed in all these discussions on what the Quran really says.

arjun_m#231
``i`m merely making the point that there`s a lot of people besides the islamofascists who make the idiotic assumption that there`s a heaven and only their people are going there..``

Yup, I am going to Christian Jewish and Muslim hells, and perhaps each Protestant denomination has its own subdivision of hell too which I will be sent to by this long queue of people who have all the answers regarding my afterlife.

My concern is with this world- the implicit assumption underlying such discussions is that the Quran being immutable, your status in this world too can legitimately be specified by what the Quran says. Why should people be discriminated against here on earth for their beliefs regarding the Quran - this question is nowhere addressed in all these discussions on what the Quran really says.

Re: # 240

{Not at all, show me where it is used in this fashion without a qualifier and means something else. All major translators translate it as such, all of them even though a few have tried to spin it by putting things in brackets.}

Given below are usage of the word Dharb in Quranic verses:

‘dharb’ = example 13:17, 16:74, 36:13; ‘dharb’ = to stop 18:11, 43:5].

You do not wish to entertatin views submitted by historians such as Bukhari yet defend your interpertation based on ``major translators`` who happen to share their opinions based on the same books you are so critical.

Fact is, Quranic verse interpretation has to seek historical references, their background and reasoning. More importantly, Arabic language has evolved over the centuries which requires understanding of linguistics that prevailed in the time of the Prophet which again makes knowledge of historical references ever moreso important.

echoboom:
abay do you even read the articles you post in their entirety??

Anyways, nothing against Islam or converts per se, but sorry to burst your bubble. There are only so many disgruntled folks seeking refuge in alternative, often extremist identities and politics. So I`m figuring the conversion curve will start to slope downwards soon, iff it hasn`t already. And given the nature of most of these conversions, one can only thank Allah that such will be the case.

Re: # 255
Tahmed Bhai,
Didnt your mother tell you that if you step into mud, only you get would get dirty....

Mud remains Mud....It is in its nature to be muddy and filthy......

So bhai, Aap kyon stoop kartey ho us sey level pey......

We expect so much better from you...

Echosqueek the Idol worshipper: Go worship this picture you posted of this god of yours!!