Islam and the Age of Globalization

all the best to the professor and his team in their endeavors. one question:

how does the team believe it can get accurate reading of the Muslim world in eight weeks? Isnt this too small a time to figure out how more than a billion people living in more than 50 countries think...

salim #114 ``Contrary to your theory, oil is not the main reason why we are so maliciously portrayed in the world. The actions of a loud, violent, committed, and brainwashed, powerful minority are the reasons for our collective suffering as Muslims. ``

Salim sahib, the actions of a loud, violent, committed, brainwashed, powerful evangelist cult which is causing so much suffering in the world can only be explained via economic interests, such as oil and Israel. Are they invading other countries simply to defend themselves against muslims? If yes, then why did the evangelists backed government attack a secular Iraq which meant no harm to anyone? And now that our actions have directly resulted in the killing of upwards of 150,000 innocent civilians, do we have the right to whine if tomorrow some Iraqis get together and blow up a building in west? Would we then use that attack as a justification to kill more, when in fact it was us who started the cycle to begin with?

If we are fair and balanced in our thoughts, we must admit that the US is fighting a war to preserve its economic and military hegemony in world. Every superpower in every period of human history has done that, and US is no different. But for us to cover up these naked aggressions as something of a ``just cause`` to supposedly reform a religion is an intellectually dishonest line of thinking. Lets have the courage to call what it is: a war by the reigning superpower to preserve its control by whatever means necessary. Lets admit it, you, I, hamidm and Bina are not even cogs in the wheels of this empire. We talk about and pay homage to what is dished out to us because we are too busy maintaining our lifestyle which is usually one pink slip away :)

Until circumstances bring US on a collision course with China and Russia - and going by Cheney`s recent out of the blue lashing of Russia, it seems that time is not too far - you and I and Bina will be busy talking about reformations of Islam. And when the tide will turn towards China, Hamidm`s daughter will be writing an article on Chowk about the evils of Confucius thoughts. Mark my words!

I would hate to break your party........but someone has to do the dirty job.......


Reforming or Secularizing or Modernising (pick your own word) Islam/Muslims is like training a posionous ivy (pick any weed) to be a rose.....

Good Luck!

Re: # 114

salim,

i would reallyreally like to agree with your statement that ``The actions of a loud, violent, committed, and brainwashed, powerful minority are the reasons for our collective suffering as Muslims.`` ............ it may be true except for the fact that a significant majority (70-80%) of muslims refuses to condemn the actions of this murderous minority ............. why ? because they all suffer from varying degrees of the masadi syndrome .........

........ the masadi syndrome is a pathological condition that causes muslims to reallyreally believe that islam the only true faith, that it is under seige, and that the infidels led by the evil amreeka-hindoo-zionist triumvirate are out to get them .............

salim:

all this talk about reforming islam is an exercise in futility on your part.

just take a look at yourself.

where do you come from and where do you belong to.

as i understand from your various posts, you are rajput-turkish-persian-sunni-shia u.s.citizen, pak-connected now based in turkey. the icing on the cake is..... you have a hindoo last name!!

do you really think you have a chance against these arabs.

may be it was osama greatgrandfather who taught your great-grand father how to prostate before allah.

and now you are trying to teach them what ``real`` islam is?

dude, these people invented it!! they have been running this joint for more than 1000 years. its been only mere 300 years that your family joined the club?

so relax and leave the driving to someone else and enjoy the ride.

Re: # 33

salim:

``He was soon disappointed by the Paki Punjoos - that`s when he decided to go away to Istanbul.``

still his ``rajputness`` didn`t bring him back to the deserts of rajasthan :(

``Although the actions of the RSS/BJP/VHP/JS/SP/BD and others do dilute this compliment. :) ``

because they are very nationalist. they view islam and christianity as a foregin religion. islam especially, which has the potential to poison the mind of the converts and make them anti-national in favor of the foreign lands/culture. case in point: inspite of being a ``rajput`` your grandfather`s migration to islamic pakistan and then further to turkey.


``Hindus/Muslims did not have quarrels, until the Muslim League and Hindu Mahasabha put their agendas into action. ``

it is very wrong to blame such things entirely on political outfits, there is smoke because of fire not the other way round.

political outfits do exploit the situation. but there are reasons to exploit them.

``In the past, Hindus and Muslims had quarrelled in a non-religious fashion - rajputs on the side of Mughals, Shia Muslims on the side of Sivaji, etc. ``

because a religios fight would been disastrous to all of them. just look what aurang. tried to do and what happened. the brits too realised the dangers of missionary activities after 1857. but that doesn`t mean at the philosophical/religious level there are no differences or contradictions.

``Also, if Allah can be called Khuda and God, why not Bhagwan? or even Brahma. ``

ram would be even better. next time you go to your local masjid try it :)


``Quite a few, but more importantly how many have converted back - now that Muslim rule is gone? ``

if the native americans/aztecs are still christian does it mean that christianity is better than their native faiths?? or jesus is the son of god??? and their ``god`` was false??

if they think that an arab could take a horse to the space and travel faster than light then more power to them!! maybe it is more credible than a a guy with four arms flying on a big eagle.


``You just won`t let the 0.375 Hindu Rajput Maharaja Aurangzeb rest in peace, will you? :) ``

mian, he was as much ``hindu`` as you (without a hindu last name) are :)

i dragged him because you had astonished me by saying that your great-grandy became muslim because of his devotion to this guy!!

``If Muslim rule was so important to Islam`s prevalence, then how come UP (and Bihar for that matter), with one of the longest sustained periods of Muslim rule (1200 - 1857) always remained heavily Hindu, while Punjab and Bengal, where Muslim rule was not sustained remained largely Muslim? ``

you will see the difference when you look at north and south india.
u.p. still has the largest % of muslims in india apart from JK, bihar too even after their migration to pak/bangla.
about punjab, other than the sikh rule of ~ 100 years, wasn`t it under muslim rule all the time?
there was presence of muslims in bengal too, the battle of plassey in 1757 was fought against sirajdullah. i think the hindu king sena (?) was defeated long time back. i would welcome any info from you.

malik99 #112, {``By any measure, US evangelists are more extremists than any extremists from any religion of the world today. ... But at the end of the day, it mostly boils down to economics. Had there been oil in hindu India, had part of the hindu land been carved out to make an state populated by european jews, and had hindus shown an assertiveness to take their natural wealth in their own hands rather than be exploited by international powers, we would today be talking about the ills of hinduism and its resultant threats to humanity. ``}

Malik Sahib,
You are right in pointing out that other religions have their own infestations of religious extremists. On numerous occasions, I have expressed my disgust at the US televangelists (Graham, Robinson, Falwell, Swaggart, and all the others). I have also spoken out against the BJP/RSS/VHP/SP/BD/JS/ maniacs, and the Uzi-toting right-wing Israeli settlers. I even resent the annoying Jehovah`s Witnesses and the bicycle-riding Mormons of the Latter Day Saints, especially their extremists elements that have hijacked our own tradition of polygamy and even enhanced it with many more than four at a time.

Because the title of this article is about Islam and because I am identified as a Muslim, I choose to focus on the extremism prevalent among many Muslims. Contrary to your theory, oil is not the main reason why we are so maliciously portrayed in the world. The actions of a loud, violent, committed, and brainwashed, powerful minority are the reasons for our collective suffering as Muslims. Then, in their own definition of wisdom, these murderers have found it fit to take on the rest of humanity - in our name. Never mind the daily chores of driving, working, mowing the lawn, cooking dinner, and cleaning the house, now Muslims have to worry about what buildings are being blown up in their name. They are constantly afraid of bad news on TV - any bombings, kidnappings, beheadings, threats, subway crashes, poison alerts, and stupid videotapes and audio cassettes are enough to put innocent Muslims on the defensive, in the cage, and on trial. Maybe you relish life in the fast lane, but many Muslims in the west are fed up with this daily dose of bravado from the cowardly terrorists. Yes, when 90% of terrorism is committed by a few murderers, speaking and killing for only 20% of humanity, the latter get an unwelcome spotlight of suspicion, anger, and collective blame. I just hope they go away. Sir, be careful. If this continues, millions of moderate Muslims will simply stop calling themselves Muslims. As it is, many have selected to westernize their obviously Arabic names that can betray them. Keep it up and the momins will be gone.

Re: # 112

malik99:

``Had there been oil in hindu India, had part of the hindu land been carved out to make an state populated by european jews``

mr. malik:

which part of israel has oil ??? may be you and I can grab it before others come to know about it....

this dude moses took 40 years to find the ``promised land``. had he walked a few hundreds miles more into the arabian peninsula, maybe that walk would been worth it.

Salim_Chauhan #73 writes ``Islam came into being for the unbelievers, the weak, the destitute, the orphans, the widows, the poor, the enslaved, and the oppressed. It was never meant to become a prevailing, dominating, suffocating, oppressing, exclusive, and enslaving monster that Muslim leaders, Muslim extremists, wahabbists, separatists, and racists have transformed it into. The next time a Muslim extremist tells you how great his religion is, remind him to stop usurping the faith that is intended more for you than for him ``


Salim sahib, too often we get carried away in the powerful waves of our oratory and let loose of the reality. Your argument, while powerfully constructed, contains zero reasoning. Islam did not just come for the unbelievers. It is for believers too. But at the end of the day, like all other religions of the world, Islam is a belief system. It is too easy to deconstruct a belief system and find flaws in it. It can just as easily be done with Islam as with any other religion. Those who spend hours and hours focusing on just one of the religion are showing limited intellect.

Also, one should be enlighetend and balanced enough to separate the fact from the fiction. When you always attach the word ``extremist`` to adherents of one particular religion, it not only shows deviance from reality, it also shows a mind which is enslaved to the dictates of prevailing media. By any measure, US evangelists are more extremists than any extremists from any religion of the world today. The evangelists backed government has killed hundreds of thousands more innocent civilians than any other ideology alive today. But at the end of the day, it mostly boils down to economics. Had there been oil in hindu India, had part of the hindu land been carved out to make an state populated by european jews, and had hindus shown an assertiveness to take their natural wealth in their own hands rather than be exploited by international powers, we would today be talking about the ills of hinduism and its resultant threats to humanity.

So one needs to have a perspective in debating. Unless we are debating just for the sake of killing time in our offices :)

Re: # 109
he became muslim by bending over and blowing jinnah`s trumpet....thus this incessant hatred and deep desire to be like the father....

BJK,

Here is an interesting letter from Dawn.
A Paki from Karachi pretty much agreeing with you:-)


http://www.dawn.com/2006/06/18/letted.htm#5


‘Fundamentalist challenge’



MR Asaf Ali Shah (June 13) is right. I was imprecise in quoting the Quaid, although the inference drawn from the quote, that Mr Jinnah was a secularist at heart, is perhaps not altogether wrong. The exact words used by Mr Jinnah in his Constituent Assembly speech, as quoted in Stanley Wolpert’s book on the leader, are as follows: “You may belong to any religion or caste or creed — that has nothing to do with the business of the State”.



>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>..

The correspondent also recalls Mr Jinnah’s March 22, 1940 address to the Lahore session of the Muslim League and quotes the Quaid as saying: “COME FORWARD AS SERVANTS OF ISLAM, organise the people economically, socially, educationally and politically.” Then Mr Shah comments: “A ‘secularist servant of Islam’ sounds like an oxymoron.” <<<<<<<<<<<



That, alas, is one of the many contradictions that we have had to live with. No leader of the Pakistan Movement, however, secular, was above exploiting religion to mobilise public opinion.

That’s why in the article in question the quotation (or misquotation) from Mr Jinnah’s speech was preceded by the remark that he rose to speak in the Constituent Assembly after much damage had already been done to the communal fabric of the subcontinent.

TAHIR MIRZA
Karachi

Re: # 107

He became a Muslim to marry 4 times and also told that he can do it 7 rimes apart form the flings (one with your mum).

As for you rprob pl buy some aphrodisiac. Dont worry, it happens (ED) not just to u.

hamidm2 #74 {``salim,
{``...... are you suggesting that al-qaeda and maulana fazloo should take a summer vacation ? ....... it is not a bad idea, but where would they go since club gitmo is being shut down ? ``}

Hamidm2 Sahib,
Why just a summer vacation? I would hope that they would take a permanent vacation and hook up with their 72 hags, give or take a few. :) There are plenty of other islands besides Cooba - may I suggest one of those Indonesian islands with a big volcano and man-eating kodomo dragons? That way they can be among momins, get a blow job from Krakatoa, and be circumcized by the dragons.


{``....... the problem, as i see it, is that muslims are just too full of themselves .......... islam is a bad religion in the sense that it doesn`t give you a break - constantly calling for allah to intervene in mundane day to day tasks, praying five times a day, fasting for a whole month, mouthing arabic inanities and so on ............ i have always maintained that namaz tamam buriyon ki jar hai so let`s start by banning public prayers and reviving disco ..........``}

I agree with you more or less - there needs to be a break from constant mominassity. We need to question whether what we are doing is worth the effort and what the resultant consequences will be. If prayers resulted in the improvement among Muslims, I would advocate 50 prayers a day for even faster results. Unfortunately, the more Muslims pray the more pissed off the Big Guy gets and lets us have it. I suggest cutting down the prayer frequency to one a day - just like the good vitamins. As for fasting, that is an individual concern. I think that too many people are obese anyway - let them eat no cake for a while.
Nothing wrong with Arabic, other than the fact that it should be forbidden to for females along with German, Punjabi, Vietnamese, and Pashto. Nothing is a greater turnoff than to hear these harsh sounds coming from the fairer sex. All women should be required to speak Japanese or Farsi - the most graceful languages. Ban the prayers or not, use of loudspeakers for azan and all night tarawi should be punishable by capital means.

Re: # 105
your father? told u so? I doubt that very much....truth hurts doesnt it....

#97 by hamidm2

Ama yaar, at least you are openly admitting that your observations are based on the superficial. The truth is I don’t know much about the man Jinnah and observing his deeds – nor do I care to. But the more I think of what that shaitan did – and the mess that he left behind him, the less I like the man. There is no reason to compare Gandhi to him – they were about different things and only one of them was about bringing hearts of people together. People are welcome to make their own choices and have their own preferences – the choices show more about the choosers than the objects.

And like you said yourself - putting lipsticks on pigs does not work. That`s why I am highly suspicious of individuals like the ole Prof. covered in this article.

Re: # 103

My father told about a child rf786 born out of chance encounter with your mom. I hope u r fine.

I think your (not biological) father told u about Nehru.

Right?