Islam and the Age of Globalization

#275
[What has Dr Akbar Ahmed done to deserve such treatment?]

Ama yaar, if you still have to ask that, clearly you did not read my interacts earlier!

And don’t make the mistake of putting this character in the same league as Dr. Abdus Salam, either! To the best of my knowledge. Salam never went around endorsing Islamic terrorism under the cover of “freedom struggle” – and then go around hogging limelight as “peace maker” when all hell broke loose post-9/11!

You break my heart!

Why are we so cruel to our intellectuals?

We the hollow men
We the stuffed men
Leaning together
Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
Our dried voices, when
we whisper together
Are quiet and meaningless
As wind in dry grass....

- T S Eliot

What has Dr Akbar Ahmed done to deserve such treatment?
Or is it our collective guilt of envy, to villify yet another great intellect, in the long litany of Noon Meem Raashid, Faiz, Mustafa Zaidi, Qurratul Ain Hyder, Abdus Salaam, and Qadeer Khan to name a few?

I have come a very poignant article ``Pakistan`s treatment of Intellectuals``, written by Dr Masood Haider and posted on Pakistan Link. He convincingly refutes all the so-called allegations against Dr Ahmed. It is on www.PakistanLink.com/Jan2002- Letter & Opinion

``{dear vertical smile, quite an appropriate name for someone blowing thru his backside...
``

Har har, this is hilarious. Vertical Smile, I am not making any judgement on you or your opinions. i just thought it was a hilarious put down.

#272 arjun writes <<< has it ever occured to you that the book buying public isn`t stupid and if they`re not buying your book, it`s because they think you`re full of it? >>>

No AH, nobody buys them because nobody knows they exist. When you publish through non corporate publishers, small time concerns, you don`t get book reviews and talk shows like the ignoramus Ann Coulter gets. Give me equal coverage then talk about why the books don`t sell.

Regarding my articles, people on here can tell the literary merits of them compared to your posts. The only possibility that I haven`t paid much attention to is how come AHs like you are still allowed to post here when your contribution to this site is less than zero, serving bigotry and hatred and defaming your fellow Hindu countrymen and women through your behavior which reflects badly on them compared to anything else it accomplishes. Now I know, in your pathetic existence and your inability to do any work of consequence you blurt out reactionary BS like you did in this post; rather than do that why don`t you get an education and make some effort and you might be able to overcome your bigotry and do some work of consequence.

#269 by masadi on June 23, 2006 3:11pm PT


changed editors my articles have been censored, so far 5 submissions have been blocked,


Your books don`t sell because they suck and your articles aren`t published because they suck...

have you considered that possibility?

has it ever occured to you that the book buying public isn`t stupid and if they`re not buying your book, it`s because they think you`re full of it?

#270, bjk,
Mere bhai - no harm done. I know that you are a very decent person at heart. Anybody who can make hamidm2 sahib wish for the return of ozer khalid has got to have a lot of qualities. Thanks.

#266 Salim

I am sorry about the ``mother of child`` reference - it was not in good taste! I was in bad mood (it is all Hat Pot`s fault!)

Indeed, all the best for the upcoming event!

#263 hamidm writes <<< ``what is the expected return on my investment ?`` >>>

return on investment is not my concern, neither should it be the concern of people who undertake genuine research. Those who write based upon ``return on investment`` come up with garbage like Coulter, and Dsouza. Return on investment or being published by a corporate publishing concern is no criteria of scholarship.

tahmed writes <<< What I want to know is: Who are these people who paid $500 for the Politics of the World According to Masadi? >>>

The books I did do not only deal with ``politics of the world``. Two of the books that account for most of this, have to do with the Quran`s scientific analysis and a comparative study of Islam & Christianity. Whereas sales on the politics books might be low but the material, which is available free online is widely read, do a google search for yourself to find out. Ever since Chowk changed editors my articles have been censored, so far 5 submissions have been blocked, so I should be moving on from here pretty soon. They might have their reasons for censorship but I feel it is unjustified.

I am dismayed to return after a day`s absence
Only to find that this interaction has degenerated into a sad hate-mail posting by some old enemies, no doubt in the bureaucracy, digging up malicious gossip regarding Professor Akbar S Ahmed.
I can understand the India-loving lobby attacking him on issues.
But personal abuse and character-assasination should not be allowed to be posted.
We must all salute Professor Akbar S Ahmed who has the courage to carry on his message of Soft Islam in face of such adversity.
Now this interaction has descended into a sort of ally-pally family chat.
Like someone`s expectant wife ( well at least that is something to cheer about) and parathas in outerspace!
I think it is a disrespect to any article when follow-up interaction becomes totally irrelevant.
I suppose it is time for a closure
As nothing pertaining to Islam in this Age of Globalization is being discussed.

#265: I believe the number you are looking is ``42`` (i.e. the answer to everything in the Universe as Masadi has conclusively deduced while dining on Green Eggs and Parathas in the Restaurant at the Edge of the Universe).

bjk #258 {``Best of luck to the mother of your child on her pregnancy! ``}

bjk bhai,
Thank you very much - my wife also adds her thanks.

#264

tahmed, I have been imploring masadi-bhai to reveal these critical numbers for sometime now. This is a matter of grave importance, I am unable to accurately estimate the coefficients in my ``moronity prevelance correlations`` without this vital data.

What I want to know is: Who are these people who paid $500 for the Politics of the World According to Masadi? This is no idle academic interest - I have this Space Rocket standing on its launch pad in Lahore that I have named the ``Pakistan Memorial`` in honor of Pakistan that I would like to sell them for a real bargain of $299. Once they have bought this, their very own Space Rocket, these people will be able to sit inside the rocket and wait for it to take them on a self-propelled tour of the Solar System!! I would recommend they take with them a copy of Masadi`s book that they purchased, and read it while wearing this great helmet (also available on sale!!) with the logo ``Space Cadet`` emblazoned on it.

Re: # 261

masadi,

``To date, after over a decade and half of work, my books have collected a total royalty of less than $500`` ................please accept my condolences, but have you ever considered the possiblity that what you write might be garbage that no one wants to read ? .......... maybe you should take some lessons from dinesh d`souza or farid zakaria who made tons of money with just one book ..........

........... i really feel bad for you, so i will give you some free advice on productivity : next time you sit down to write ask yourself the question, ``what is the expected return on my investment ?``

so after all these meanderings and #261 posts - what is the conclusion (please help I am confused)
(a) is Akbar ahmed a good guy with sound mind
(b) is there anything worthwhile in what he is doing
(c) Is it ``revival`` or is it ``reform`` - is it an XOR situation or is there an overlap

Hamidm writes in #254 <<< and our own m. asadi (even he has seven web sites trying to sell his 3-4 books) ..........

....... everybody who thinks they can make a buck is writing a book - ann coulter, paris hilton, al franken, bill maher, ............. >>>

Firstly, my websites are not there to sell my books. To date, after over a decade and half of work, my books have collected a total royalty of less than $500, Ann Coulter, selling her garbage, charges more to sneeze in public than that amount. If I was writing books to earn royalties, I would have starved to death by now.

Secondly, AH like you try to rubbish genuine scholarship coming out of social science departments, including sociology and political science, as work of ``charlatans``. You, not only are an ignorant idiot, well documented here on chowk by your posts, you have spent an entire lifetime trying to dupe corporations by giving them some c@ck and bull tale about productivity so you can drain the ever shrinking wages of the workers. You should be ashamed of yourself, you miserable leech.

What good Prof. Ahmad can do for the Muslim cause if he is the same person who wrote a book on Mr. Jinnah full of false, inaccurate and out of context accounts of Indian leadership so as to elevate Mr. Jinnah to someone who could do not wrong. His disdain for people like Maulana Abdul Kalam Azad who, if ever there was, exemplified the qualities of a true Muslim. It is also the same prof. who produced the movie Jinnah in response to Attenbourough`s Gandhi. Anybody who had seen the movie can easily identify Mr. Ahmad`s shallow attitude when he harps at length on Lady Mountbatten`s infatuation with Mr. Nehru. The movie could only be produces by someone who has inferiority complex but still wants to prove to the World the moral superiority of his cause, in this case of his mentor Mr. Jinnah.
If anybody wants to know about interaction in the Muslim World there are two excellent books by Sir V.S. Naipaul, which cover this issue. The books are: In the Land of the Believers and Beyond Belief.
Recent release of a book covering letters of Mr. Jinnah and Mr. Liaquat Ali show that when the Indian leadership of Gandhi, Nehru Azad and Patel had sacrificed all material comforts for the cause of freedom of the country, Mr. Jinnah was discussing the transaction of a parker pen and its cost with Liaquat Ali. I hope when he visits India he is confronted to explain and defend his views expressed in the book on Jinnah. By making Mr. Jinnah as something he wasn’t, Mr. Ahmad has managed to eclipse those qualities, which Mr. Jinnah did have. Mr. Wolpert has a better characterization of Mr. Jinnah. Mr. Ahmad is nothing but a shallow, self- serving, self- promoting ambassador of his own brand of Islam.

#256 by HP

[Finally, after a long time you said something of value…]

Ummah yaar HP, if you read that interact (#252) again, you will realize that `(I believe) he is referring to the difficulty of making Pakistanis see reason!

#252, #255 Chauhan

I knew that with a little bit of prodding, it will be easy enough to find out how successful that “rehabilitation” was.

The ``glow`` of the underlying metal will always shine, all it takes is a bit of scratching.

Best of luck to the mother of your child on her pregnancy!

HP Yaar, #256,
As hard as I try to make all of my people shine on Chowk, there are quite a few who are, frankly, simply embarrassing. I love Pakis, Biharis, Hindus, Muslims, Sikhs, even Paki Punjus. But some of my own people are beyond repair:

Nada Poison - Insists on writing in English and proves every claim by Gujju that Pakistan`s literacy rate is below single digit.

Atif2 - Makes all my points about Paki Punjus come true, including the unique factor of western Punjabis suffering from Pathan-injected homosexuality - along with niswar-laden lassi.

Ali1 - Spends an unusually lengthy amount of time researching Ayuvedic treatments for all kinds of maladies - especially HIV, STDs, and infections of the rectum. He behaves as a madman, desperate to find cures, any cures from any quarter, for his personal ailments. He is an embarrassment for all true momins and Pakis - giving so much airtime to foul-smelling Hindu medical expertise. I hope Pokerbhai gets him castrated for SHIRK.

The girl from Lahore - After telling every one to get fucked, this piece of delight from Hira Mandi finally took her own advice and got knocked up. Now, we are hearing rumors of a certain Sardarju returning from yatra with a smile from ear to ear.

#252 by Salim_Chauhan

“bjk, Please deal with your difficulty - you have my compassion.”

Salim,

Finally, after a long time you said something of value… I know how embarrassing this bj bihari must be for you…He is a blot on Bihar. I know you are trying hard to restore Bihar’s lost glory and he comes in with his lalo-sque comments to ruin it for you. Keep tabs on him. He is spongy.

hamidm2 #254 {``there is absolutely nothing wrong with self-promoting professors who love to sell books ........ everybody who thinks they can make a buck is writing a book ``}

Hamidm Sahib,
And here we are, you and I, giving away our words of wisdom for free. Doing God`s work is enriching, but not financially. :(

Re: # 250

salim mian,


there is absolutely nothing wrong with self-promoting professors who love to sell books ........... that`s what it all about ............scholarship has nothing to do with people who deal in the garbage of ``social sciences`` (aka humanities and liberal arts) like sociology, theology, philosophy, political science and basket weaving ........... the faculties of most major american universities (and community colleges) are full of charlatans like homi bhaba and our own m. asadi (even he has seven web sites trying to sell his 3-4 books) ..........

....... everybody who thinks they can make a buck is writing a book - ann coulter, paris hilton, al franken, bill maher, bill clinton, bill bennett, , pedophiles, guys on death row and jessica simpson (she wrote a book on how to achieve a dream wedding) .............

Re: # 191
Binaji,Binaji....Dheeraj maharajkumari, dheeraj
You say `none of this (money bit) I care to debate`...coz it is true innit?
Of course you cant debate or defend someone paying himself and his kith and kin out of a compaNY ACCOUNTS
yes IT WAS jinnah project ltd A COMPANY INTO WHICH INVESTORS BOUGHT SHARES TRUSTING HIM , they didnt give donations, those investors
But they got NOTHING, Zilch, Nishta, ZEro, while he and his family HAD TO HELP THEMSELVES TO LARGE SIX FIGURE SUMS, so no wonder the whole Pakistani upper class is cross with this clan, Karachiites mostly who invested
Binaji
He HAD TO PAY HIMSELF AND HIS LAZY SON AND SON IN LAW WHO DID NOTHING IN THE PROJECT while drawing full benefits of a SENIOR CIVIL SERVANT ON A SABATICAL LEAVE FOR 12 WHOLE YEARS, A RECORD IN civil service
And then you in your other pompous sounding namesake on chowk bemoan his `shabby treatment`?
SHABBY?
All the foreign office which u contemptuosly call lazy was to do is to report how he was helping himself as ambassador to the embassay funds to pay himself his old rejected `expenses` and treatment` bills, including plastic surgery,YES PLASTIC SURGURY BILL for himself, his sons NOSE JOB!! and what more to look more PR worthy!
We foreign office or other civil servants have nothing against outsiders taking plumb posts.

Now Maliha Lodhi is ambassador in the same post, her boozing/boyfriends/dubious PHD on life of BHUTTO is common knowledge, but my--she works hard at her job
AND LOOK AT HER NOSE, SHE HASNT HAD A NOSE JOB DONE, though she may benefit, SHE DOESNT HAVE HER FINGERS IN THE TILL OF THE EMBASSY
And just to check, are nt you his sons motherinlaw or some thing, well someone told me, please forgive me if I am wrong

Anything you wanna contradict, please

The next thing you ll have is a sledgehammer of the addresses of his properties in son/daughter/son-in-laws name in UK, acquired at the time funds went out of Jinnah kitty

And we hear how he went `nearly bankrupt` selling family jewels to complete Jinnah film!

Or consider yourself CHECK MATE

bjk #251 {``I find it difficult to believe. Nobody in his right mind who knows another person personally would use such choice superlatives (on the “con” side) on an open forum!
And what did he say about Kashmir? ``}

bjk,
Do I come across as someone who gives a rat`s ass about what people think about my opinions. I said I met him - that does`t translate into ``knowing him personally.`` Discussing Kashmir with Pakis is like discussing pedophilia with Catholic priests or terrorism with Al Kayda. You know the answers.

Please deal with your difficulty - you have my compassion.

#250 by Salim_Chauhan

[I have met Prof. Akbar Ahmed a couple of times]

I find it difficult to believe. Nobody in his right mind who knows another person personally would use such choice superlatives (on the “con” side) on an open forum!

Stop fibbing, now!

And what did he say about Kashmir? I notice its mention is conspicuous by its absence.

I have met Prof. Akbar Ahmed a couple of times. Here are my sincere observations:

PRO

Soft-spoken
Quite learned
Positive attitude
Patient
Understanding
Observant
A thorn in the side of extremist Wahabbis
Not associated with ISNA, ICNA, and CAIR
Projects ``better`` image of Muslims and Pakis - but ``better`` is relative


CON

Self-centered
Self-promoting
Loves to sell books
Needs money, more money, and more money
Glosses over important details
Has an excuse and explanation for everything
Too lovey dovey, kumbaya with inflluential westerners - especially Jewish ones
The whole family smells like upper-class Pakis
Gets boring after prolonged interaction

Re: # 240 or their academic credentials are untouchable in their field.....a good example would be the Hoodbhoy!

#246 apologies.....a line went missing from that....``thanks lillywhite`` for filling the blanks! You do have seriously good dope on you (T)

#243, bjk {``What has the Hindu/Sikh/Muslim/Pakistani/Punjabi and all those other qualifiers got to do with it?

We add qualifiers for the sake of accuracy in identification. Even the police use terms such as male caucasian, etc...

Does your (pregnant) wife know that you are spending so much time worrying over the travails of lonely Pakistani Punjabi ladies in distress?

Who said they were lonely? :)

More important, does your boss know?

My boss is my father-in-law. :)

ooops it was not #210 but #190 (bina_shah apprently replied to that!)

anyway here it is

#190 by

---

...

---

on June 22, 2006 5:34am PT
Re: # 189
the good olde professor has plenty of these tucked into his closet.....for example the question which needs to be answered is ``how did he get the Iqbal Chair in Cambridge? Who funded this chair? (my sources told me long time back that the money came from, the GoP and that there were a lot of promisory notes attached to this)?`` There is nothing in the grand olde man`s CV to suggest scholarly activities till 1988 (when he got the Iqbal Chair) other than being a ``political Agent in Pakistan`s NWFP``.

Life`s interesting. I read this article and sort of thought nothing much of it - till the authroress interacted citing the Olde Profesor`s integrity as being one which is untouchable (interact #10) which sort of intrigued me.

Apologies to Nasah and other readers for the digressions....

Re: # 242
BJK those in the UK know of his story. and those from OXBRIDGE know it inside out. For a long time, there were a lot of people in and around Cambridge who used to titter when they heard the appellation Professor! for they knew all about the Iqbal Chair.

Re: # 238 and #240

Isnt that what I said in 210.....good to see that others have also heard the same and done some research

#241

Hmmm.. sounds like a straightforward case of good old-fashioned love story!

What has the Hindu/Sikh/Muslim/Pakistani/Punjabi and all those other qualifiers got to do with it?

Does your (pregnant) wife know that you are spending so much time worrying over the travails of lonely Pakistani Punjabi ladies in distress?

More important, does your boss know?

#238 lilywhite

Ama yaar, how come you know so much about the good ole Prof.?!!

Does that make YOU the Prof.?

Naheen na?

Same way, the author is not that other nick!

Besides, making money ain’t no crime.

But it is a very different story when it comes to enticing youths to go get themselves killed fighting for a “cause” – like Kashmir!

Hai na?!!

Bo lo – hai naa!
Kabhie mat – ro naa
Chahe toot jaye
Koi khilona
Khilona, khilona
Dil ka khilona!

Folks,

Talking about violence and terrorism can get rather depressing. We don`t need Prof. Akbar Ahmed or other self-styled spokesmen to convince the world about the affection, love, and pleasure that Muslims can bring into non-Muslims` lives. Consider this true but sad tale of Muslim/Sikh affection.

Another tale of romantic fascination ...

Zainab was a young Punjabi Muslim girl who was saved by the gallant old farmer, Boota Singh in 1947. Their story is told by LaPierre and Collins in ``Freedom at Midnight,`` The Punjabi Muslim girl settled down with her savior and bore him a daughter. When the authorities came searching for missing girls, Zainab, like thousands of other Punjabi Muslim girls, refused to leave her Sikh husband and lover. She was forcefully taken to Pakistan. Boota Singh followed, changed his name to Jamil, and went to court to regain his lovely wife. The tragic story ends with Boota (Jamil) Singh`s demise at the Lahore railway station.

This romantic but sad true story confirms the romantic and sexual fascination that Punjabi Muslim females have for Sikh males. Perhaps it is the legacy of Maharaja Ranjit Singh and his harem full of Punjabi Muslim females and the legendary sexual exploits of Maharaja Bhupinder Singh of Patiala that have added to this well-known phenomenon. Bhupinder Singh had stocked his harem with the loveliest ladies, many of them Punjabi Muslim girls, and had his own research lab for the development of aphrodisiacs.

The legend lives on. Now Sikh male yatris are visiting Paki Punjab once again and leaving with wide smiles on their faces. It may be the fulfillment of their religious vows that makes them happy or it could be the love of their Paki Punju female lovers. The equally wide smile on the latter points to the more romantic reason.

lillywhite:
precisely. This guy is a fake. Profs. who are the real deal tend to be low-key like Professor Ahmed Hassan Dani or Professor Saleem uz Zaman Siddiqui.

Crackers!!!! this whole GLOBE would be if peacemakers like Prof.Akber S. Ahmed and his team were not present on it. Their particular trend of activities are badly needed all round the earth (planet). and the last paragraph of your article sounds like a prayer from the heart. May I join too and say Amen! May poetic justice prevail on the global atmosphere and make way for true peace and justice.

Re: # 125
Mian jahangasht or is it Bina ji, coz ur so well versed with the great profs bio.
He became ambassador coz he was obeying orders coz he was in CSP but when recalled he resigned, ie disobeyed orders.
so much fr all yr shining CSP ethics!
As for his so called civil service, he was always on some scholarship, fellowship, sponsership, youname it, he had it, that he was ever in his post.
His GREAT freeride began when he wrote, or rather plaigarized paragraph by paragraph, MAX WEBER`s famous PROTESTANT ETHIC and called it ARIAN work ethic. Gen Zia being an Arian, it was for him.
He got Pakistan govt funded chair at Cambridge, a couple of year`s appointment, but it went on and on for, you tell me, 12 YEARS! All expense paid SABBATICAL LEAVE on FULL SALARY , making a nice little earner making BBC films, Jinnah, PR this and that, in short a whale of a jolly good time.
Could you or the good old professor fake care to tell us what REAL ACADEMIC WORK HE DID?
His so called books are a joke to read, all the same stuff recycled again and again to fit with the current fad, and pictures and newspaper cuttings like an O level Pakistani student can do better in his scrap book!
So much for his integrity, intellectual or otherwise, and u wonder why ordinary or civil service pakistanis hate him.
Ah , there used to be a joke in civil service circles:
What does S in AKber S ahmed stand for?
50% Sponger, 50% sycophant
Care to comment u2 among all the interactors who believe him?
Hain Bina ji??

#235 Sadna

Amma yaar,

Prof. Ahmed’s (and T32’s) consternation and inability to face up to the truth is fully understandable. Such individuals yearn to become a shining example of:

सत्यम वृयात, प्रियम वृयात
न वृयात सत्यम अप्रियम !

Satyam briyat, priyam briyat
Na briyat satyam apriyam!

Speak the truth
Speak it sweet
But never speak truth
That ain’t so sweet!

#235, {``NonMuslims can do nothing about this INTERNAL Muslim choice, so abusing us is not going to help. ``}

Aw come on! The abuse you obtain from Manto Bhai is the ONLY bright light in the lives of Paki Chowkies. It helps a lot - it makes up for some of the depression we suffer from sectarianism, jihadism, corruption, Paki Punju hegemony, and lack of a world cup soccer team. Be a good sport and keep on playing your designated role of loser.

#220
``#220 Sadna: You mean hindus are not Supremely Pure? You mean hindu mobs didnt run down sikhs in delhi and beat `em to death?? You mean Operation BlueStar was a Paki conspiracy?? Surely you jest!! Everyone knows just how Perfectly Good Hindus are!!``

Yes, Hindus are not Supremely Pure. Hindu mobs did run down Sikhs in Delhi and burn them to death ruthlessly. Operation Bluestar was an Indian State`s operation. That was 22 years ago and Hindus are still not Supremely Pure. But Indians have learnt a little and atoned a little since then. Though there have been NO prosecutions, many Indians have acknowledged that what happened to innocent Sikhs was wrong.

However even 30 years on, Pakistanis like Akbar Ahmed are refusing to acknowledge any such thing about Pakistani state support of jihadi fundamentalists. Not only that, the policy continues in full swing. The evil US, Israel and Hindus are brought up ad nauseum to prevent any intra-Muslim dialogue on this. Such hypocrisy is INTERNAL and is fostering an INTERNAL weakness. Muslims are not being empowered by this hypocrisy or nor is it improving their standard of living, it is just brutalizing Muslim society as the attack on the Kashmiri devrishes demonstrates. NonMuslims can do nothing about this INTERNAL Muslim choice, so abusing us is not going to help.

#226 - #229 Tahmed

Ummah yaar,

Yeh kya maamla hai?! Aaye, bus do lafaz boley - woh bhee ``off-topic`` - aur chal diye!

Isn’t that what the Jihadis do?!!

Isn`t that what your ``freedom fighters`` in Kashmir do?!!

Oh wait, they don`t shoot with their mouths.

I suppose there IS a difference.

As a descendant of former Supremely Pure but Horrible Hindus and now an Islamically Pure but Oppressed Paki from Karachi, it is my aasha to be reincarnated as a Paki Punju Muslim. That way I can pontificate about the oneness of God, brotherhood and unity of mankind, the legitimacy of TNT, the virtues of ``freedom fighters,`` all the while killing Kashmiri Muslims in order to free them and keeping ``stranded`` Muslim Pakis in Bangladesh by reclassifying them as ``Biharis,`` and thus not deserving of being citizens of the Land of the Pure. Is mominity another term for hypocrisy?

Re: # 217

{If you dont know the meaning of Vertical Smile, then you are a gay}

this coming from a guy who calls himself vertical smile.....

#227

``You mean hindu mobs didnt run down sikhs in delhi and beat `em to death?? ``

What are you talking abt Tahmed?

They were congressi leftists and not hindu. Some of them were pakistani agents mostly ISI....

Well, if some pure Muslim had posted the news item about that attack in J&K, a dirty hindoo like me would not have had to do so. There is complete impunity given to soldiers of Islam by pure Muslims, no checks and balances on those who carry the purest aspirations of Muslims on their shoulders into the battlefield. Is such a hand waving impunity granted by pure Muslims to `freedom fighters` a horrible hindoo`s fault?

Horrible and uppity infidels like me get the opportunity to speak among Islamically Pure Types only because of Islamically Pures`own inattention and intellectual laziness as described above. Let that be a lesson to you

Sigh.... gotta go. The Supremely Pure Ones have more important things to do than listen to an Adoring Paki applauding their Purity and Genius. :-(

C`mon. Speed up your typing. I dont have all day. O Supremely Pure Hindus on Chowk.

#220 Sadna: You mean hindus are not Supremely Pure? You mean hindu mobs didnt run down sikhs in delhi and beat `em to death?? You mean Operation BlueStar was a Paki conspiracy?? Surely you jest!! Everyone knows just how Perfectly Good Hindus are!!

#225 Forget the Quran. Who needs it when we have Supremely Pure Indians on Chowk in Person.

tahmed32:
Invented any new Quranic interpretation today? How about revisiting Sura -e- Kafiroon?

#220
Where did I say Hindus were perfect or holy? And I don`t think you personally are one of those who support jihadis. It is for people like Akbar Ahmed to be honest about what precisely the Pakistani state is supporting 20 years into its Kashmir policy and what are its implications for ``Islam and the Age of Globalization``.

#223 bjk: Another Supremely Gifted Genius from India!! Pure and Brilliant - the very definition of an Indian on Chowk.

#221: That`s right. Who can teach deluded Pakis that India is perfect. Just ignore them.

#219, #220

Ummah yaar,

If you like to use more than one nicks at least post different stuff!

#218 even Verticle-Smile agrees about the Supreme Purity of the Hindus.

sadna:
spot on. But dont waste your breath on paki uncles. They are half dead already.

#218 ``Which fingers? ``

ha! ha!

Like I said, only deluded pakis like hamidm see them. No one in the rest of the world has any doubt about the Supreme Holiness of the Hindus.

#218 ``Which fingers? ``

ha! ha!

Like I said, only deluded pakis like hamidm see them. No one in the rest of the world has any doubt about the Supreme Holiness of the Hindus.

Re: # 213

bong mian,

......... i don`t pay much attention to what goes on on the wrong side of the border, but i heard somewhere that naxalites (or some such militants) were killing innocent people in keralaland ......... i might be wrong - maybe they were simply killing venal landlords and corrupt policemen ........

#209
Which fingers? There are no freedom fighters in Kerala and Tamil Nadu and any `freedom fighters` are overwhelmingly outnumbered in Mizoram and Punjab. The essential dishonesty in citing these doesnot effect India, it affects only Muslims whom Pakistanis have been misleading since day one.

Insurgencies in India are generally taken to be frustrations and alienation due to powerlessness and many of the accords aimed at ending insurgencies, however effective or ineffective have reflected this recognition.

In contrast Pakistan`s last 30 years` record has shown that Pakistan considers only jihadi fundamentalists as worth empowering. This has also been amply demonstrated in Pakistan`s choices in J&K and Afghanistan. To address endless seminars and interfaith groups on Islam without acknowledging this is plain hypocrisy from which any situation in India is not going save people like Akbar Ahmed.

Re: # 212

Dear rf786,

Your name sounds more like my pet`s language. rrrRf..rrrrRf...rrrrRf. Never mind.

If you dont know the meaning of Vertical Smile, then you are a gay.

#209, {``Imagine!! Who but a deluded paki could ever dream of there being anything being less than perfect in India.``}

The second ``being`` in your post is both superfluous and confusing. It is embarrassing to read your less than mediocre English in mixed company - both Indians and Pakis are present. If we let you continue like this, then the Indians will win.

Re: # 206
My pleasure.....u r welcome.

Re: # 206

Would there be a regular supply of virgins? Once you Have it, it`s no longer a virgin.
At the rate of 5 for 5 days a week (weekend rest for replenishment) 5*72 = 360 days. So, the whole pack cease to be virgins in one year. Would rf786 start Whining (like rest of the people from his country who love Whining?)?

#211

cut the crap and first tell me about militants and ``freedom-fighters`` in Kerala.

Re: # 205
dear vertical smile, quite an appropriate name for someone blowing thru his backside...

Re: # 207

... that is why i said that the jihadists are in a miserable class by themselves ...... but that doesn`t mean that all militants are bad people - let`s not forget that washington led an armed rebellion while gandhi-ji walked around without any clothes to drive away the british ....... it is too cold in kashmir to walk around sans clothes (i know that is not a good excuse, but it is the best i can come up with)........

a quick visit to the site Bina_shah recommends - belief.net - and looking athe the olde professors latest entry - makes you weep.
a quick look at this http://www.belief.net/story/187/story_18723_1.html
gives a full range of his observations. My god how trite can you be! And this from an Anthropologist. This is on par with the observations made in the article itself. Trite, banal, and dare I say AR.

I guess beards or a feather gather together.....

thank you for recommending this website. I now realise why the islamic world is so full of charlatans (with the noble expection of H2, HP, Mantolives, Nasah, Urstruly and a few other votaries)

#207, #204: I think what hamidm is trying to say is that every time an Indian on chowk points a finger at Pakistan, he/she is pointing four at India.

Imagine!! Who but a deluded paki could ever dream of there being anything being less than perfect in India.

#203 H₂

Ama yaar,

The problem is never with what one thinks – no matter how idiotic those thoughts – it is always with the way one expresses it – for example, when one expresses it through shooting people.

Kashmiris have always had the right to vote for their own – you mean to tell me that out of so many millions, they can’t pick at least ONE person who is a democratic leader – and that all their leaders simply yearn for the bear-hug of the outlandish outhouse of the Pure?

Let them pick their person. And let them whine all they want to – let their leaders whine all that they want to – the freedom of expression even to whine is all there for them! Like it has always been there! Like it was there before 1989 when Pakistan started funneling all those arms and jihadis – boosted in their own hearts by the power of the newly, clandestinely acquired nukes, no doubt – not to mention the head-spinning glory of having acquired “strategic depth”!

Some like it rather deep, you see!

VERY deep!

(Well, much good it did them!)

Anyway, what these Kashmiri folks don’t have the right to – and you better get this through that Merlot-clouded head of yours – is to start practicing Shariat in the land (except perhaps inside their own homes) – and start killing people who disagree with them – and start saying that they are above the laws of the land and that they will make their own!

(And YOU can’t say that either, by the way! So stop preaching to others what you don’t have the “guts” to practice yourself!)

Ghazi hamidm2 #203
What precisely do ``mizoram, nagaland, kerala, tamilland, punjab`` have to do with `Islam and the age of globalization` including the Pakistani state`s support for attacks on Kashmiri devrishes ? Such attacks are a totally intra-Muslim thing between the Pakistani state, freedom fighters and Kashmiris.

#202, rf786 {``You forgot to mention the following: ...``}

Janab Mohtaram Hazrat Radio Frequency Bismillah Sahib,
You are absolutely correct about the additions you made. I was not counting future benefits such as 72 fat virgins....
Also, I was trying to limit the list to individuals rather than a full list of foaming at the mouth extremist fundo assholes like RSS/BJP/VHP/BD/JS/SS/JeI/JeM/LeT/LTTE/SeS/LeJ/MMA/Tally Ban/ AlKayda/Moral Majority/700 Club/Likud/India Shining/ Pakistan Whining/ Israel bloating/Aussies ovulating/Osama hiding/Zawahiri lurking/ Zarqawi expiring/Tahmed3 pretending.

Thanks for expanding. :)

Re: # 201

202 Appear ro be confused or he`s an a$$kiss of Musharraf.

#203

along with the usual litany of ``Indian problems`` that Pakis usually sprout to cover up for the sheer criminality of their army and government Herr Hamidm-mian has found new one, hold your breath ...

``Kerala``

Re: # 198

frau sadna,

bad militants ! ....... they should be slapped and sent to bed without any pudding

........ these are the kind of people who are giving old fashioned militancy and plain old freedom-fighting a bad name ....... shame on them ! ....... but perchance, you wouldn`t know of any such people in other remote parts of the indian empire - mizoram, nagaland, kerala, tamilland, punjab, etc ... would you ? ......... having said that, i must agree with you that the islamic jihadist is in disgusting class by himself ...........

Re: # 201
Salim Sahib,
You forgot to mention the following:

1. Usama bin Laden
2. Ayman Zawahiri
3. Musab Zarqawi
4. MMA
5. BJP
6. RSS
7. India shining
8. Israel annexation of occupied territories
9. Australian hegemony in the Pacific

In short, far far far right has been the winner, losers being principles of fairness, democracy, International court of justice, nation states right exist as independent states.

Bina Shah #191 {``I repeat that Professor Akbar Ahmed`s integrity and honesty is non-negotiable for me. ``}

Bina,
When all is said and done the fact will remain that only a few people benefited from 9/11:

1. George Bush
2. Dick Cheney (including financially)
3. Pervez Musharraf
4. Prof Akbar Ahmed (exclusively financially).

#195 by hamidm2
#197 by nasah
``may I prescribe Ritalin for you bj....:)``

Do you actually read BJ`s posts?
The guy is spongy. which in medical terms would be lunatic. I stopped reading his posts two months ago as I figured out that the guy is spongy and can only write one thing....Ignore him unless you have time for reading trash.

Bina,
thanks for the correction. Yes! it was Imran. Akber did accuse him for pushing to work in the movie.

#197 Nasah

Ama yaar,

Ritalin to stimulant hota hai! Hai na?

Hum to seedhe saadhe insaan thahre – hame un sub cheejon se kya waasta?!

Unhe aur nashe ki kya jaroorat hai?

Jin per pehle se itna nasha hai.

Nashe mein hun lekin
Mujhe ye khabar hai
Ki is jindagee mein
Sabhi pee rahe hain!

Aur nasha kuchh kum bhi ho jaye

Aur nasha kitna bhee kum ho jaye

Phir bhi Nasah hai!

Freedom fighting and Islam in the Age of Globalization:
22 June 2006
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/5106216.stm?headline=Dervish~devotees~hit~by~grenade

Dervish devotees hit by grenade
There have been a number of grenade attacks in Kashmir recently
A grenade explosion in Indian-administered Kashmir has killed two people and injured more than 12.

Police said that suspected militants threw the grenade at a crowd of devotees gathered near the house of a Muslim dervish in the town of Sopore.

The dervish has a huge following in the Kashmir valley but analysts say separatist militants do not approve of this form of Islamic worship.

Dervishes belong to an ascetic order, some of which perform whirling dances.


``The grenade exploded in the lawn of the house of Abdul Ahad. Ahad Sahib escaped unhurt,`` a police spokesman told the Reuters news agency.

No-one has claimed responsibility for the attack near Sopore town, 50 kms (30 miles) north of Srinagar, the summer capital of India`s Jammu and Kashmir state.

Correspondents say that Mr Sahab is considered the most popular dervish in Jammu and Kashmir, which is India`s only Muslim-majority state.

#196

[“Freedom” from what? Hindus?]
But wait, there aren’t any!

[Secularism?]
What secularism? All the Pakistan-funded outfits are anything but!

[And what is the end result of this “freedom” business business – a place just like the land of the pure?]

I think the end result is already there. Non-Muslims are out – fatwas are in!

Congratulations, my dear Pakistanis – you have already remade Kashmir!

In your own image, of course!

O what blessings does “freedom” bring!

Talk about endless justice!

Then why does one feel like endless punishment?

may I prescribe Ritalin for you bj....:)

#195 H₂

Ama mian,

“Freedom” from what?

Hindus?

Secularism?

Is somebody coming in and grabbing their leadership – and becoming their “Chief Executive”?

Is somebody coming in and grabbing their properties?

Their women – those Kashmir ki kalis (no reference to color!)?

Their places of worship?

Their beards (except in the case of the women)?

Their apples?

And what is the end result of this “freedom” business – a place just like the land of the pure?

Or another set of caves for OBL to hide in?

Re: # 192


bj,

........ now what exactly is wrong with freedom fighting ? ......... you could disagree with the methods, but surely you don`t disagree with the principle ?...... some would say that your half-naked idol was a `freedom-fighter` ..... no?

....... personally i know nothing about the good professor and his film venture, but i do commend him for his position on kashmir (if he ever had one) ........ as for making a quick buck, there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is not illegal - and if it is, then take him to court and prove it and if he is guilty throw him in jail ........... just because a man is a petty thief does not mean he is wrong on everything

Re: # 193
BJK, you are a master of subtle or not so subtle innuendos

#191 Bina the Shah

All right, Bina!

Finally, at long last – the sleeper awakes!

Hit one for the Prof., Bina!

Sock it to the meanies, Bina!

Give it to the dot!

And those who soak in Merlot!

So sock it to HP, whose memory appears not infallible, after all – I knew all those late night solitary binges of cheap wine were destined to do the dastardly damage to those deadcells!

But Bina, there is just ONE little matter that remains to be addressed!

Bina, why this sudden mum in response to the Prof.’s evocation of the Kashmiri killers – from a safe distance for himself, of course!!!

Say it dear, the evocation was not pro-terrorism – it was pro-“freedom-fighting”!

What’s the matter, dear – the “cat” got your tongue?!!! And is it chomping on it mightily?!

Aah, there is nothing like the taste of a chomped tongue!

good professor or no-good professor -- whether he embezzled or did not embezzle is beside the point -- it is diffficult to agree with Bina`s article -- that Islam needs REVIVAL -- not REFORMS --

of course Islam needs to build bridges with ALL religions not exclusively with Judaism and Christianity -- for which it will need to lighten itself from overblown sense of self importance and self aggrandizment and not overburden itself with revivalist redundant heavy historical baggage once again --

because that revival business has already been taken over by Mr. OBL and he has done a bloody good job of it

so one doesn`t know about the mercurial ornamental Oriental Islam -- but the unsettling Occidental Islam -- that we Western muslims and our children have to contend with -- badly needs modernization..... and definitely requires a rather sedate Western Makeover.

if the good professor is on an expensive hopefully audited tour with the three adopted kids and his entire family -- to profess this spurious counterfeit `revivalist` Islam -- in the post 9/11 turmoiled Western world -- then this `professor of Islam` -- this time is out and out to embezzle Islam .....itself.

Re: # 189

All of what`s been said here is stuff I`ve heard about before.

None of it is anything I care to debate.

I was around during the time of the Jinnah movie and I remember the scandals well.

The journalist who wanted a part in the movie was Imran Aslam, not Omar Qureshi.

At least get your facts straight before you post them!

I also read the script while it was being filmed.

I know what happened with the movie after it was sold to a company that was meant to distribute it in the united states, but didn`t.

I repeat that Professor Akbar Ahmed`s integrity and honesty is non-negotiable for me.

The rest of you may make your own judgments.

But did any of you actually go to the Beliefnet link I posted in my first reply and read anything about this project?

Or are you satisfied wtih recycling old material and debating Jinnah - as you do on every board?

The intellectual laziness of Chowk interactors continues to astound me.

Re: # 189
the good olde professor has plenty of these tucked into his closet.....for example the question which needs to be answered is ``how did he get the Iqbal Chair in Cambridge? Who funded this chair? (my sources told me long time back that the money came from, the GoP and that there were a lot of promisory notes attached to this)?`` There is nothing in the grand olde man`s CV to suggest scholarly activities till 1988 (when he got the Iqbal Chair) other than being a ``political Agent in Pakistan`s NWFP``.

Life`s interesting. I read this article and sort of thought nothing much of it - till the authroress interacted citing the Olde Profesor`s integrity as being one which is untouchable (interact #10) which sort of intrigued me.

Apologies to Nasah and other readers for the digressions....

Re: # 177
So the old ghosts are out once again to haunt our `Professor of Islam`......
`accused by Jamil Dehlavi, Jinnah`s producer, director and co-writer, of paying himself £50,000 ($95,000) for the script which Farrukh Dhondi wrote, and diverting £70,000 ($133,000) to an offshore account to pay his son and son-in-law for jobs they did not carry out`

His son bought a flat a London`s posh Regent`s Park (next to the famous Mosque, where else), and his son-in-law bought a nice little hostel in Earls Court area.

None of them had any gainful employment then.

But every little bit helps.

Hope the current sponsers of the great trip of 3 kids plus whole family of ye olde fake Professor of Islam are doing their audits right now.

Any comments Bina ji?

#186 by nasah

Ama yaar,

Let me get this straight.

(1) You believe that the Prof. sahib is the type whose hands are best kept at a safe distance from your pocket book.

(2) You would rather believe my dear Bina Shah (okay fair enough, at least she shows up here unlike that Irfan who?!)

(3) And Bina’s faith in the good ole Prof. is stronger that the Washington monument and stands tall and proud – come what may!

Wait a minute!

Yaar, you can’t have it both ways – that would leave you heading up the creek with no patwaar!

Since mian Manto appears to have bolted like those proverbial donkey horns (perhaps he was reclaimed by his rightful owner of that figurative donkey (no offense, Ms. Sarwari (please do not misinterpret the reference to “figure”))) – let me put on the hat of the devil’s advocate for a moment.

The Prof. sahib may have a few (okay, maybe quite a few) rattling skeletons neatly tucked away (maybe packed away (or compressed away)) in that closet. Theek hai, maan lijiye kee ye aabo-hawaa ka asar hai! But look at it from his point of view, too!

All that publicity!

Encounters with the Oprahs!

Handshakes with the Mushies!

Lecture invitations left and right!

Merlot flowing like a river! Wow!

Munney makes the world go round!

Not to mention a bunch of gora-goree grad students gulping and gorging up on good old garbage!

Hey, there is nothing which looks as beautiful as a Pakistani lady decked up in that shalwar-kameez!

With the possible exception of a goree decked up likewise.

And hey, a bird in hand maybe worth more than 72 in those bushes up there!

Aaiyey Aaiyey Professor Sahib,aaiyey,batheeyey...

Its good to know that you have taken-up the holy task of review/reconsideration/re-search of Islam. Before you publish your work, we can conclude (as many before you have done) that your final analysis will be that Muslims are indeed backward. And the reasons are :-

1. Because they are Muslims.
2. Because they believe in Allah.
3.Because they recite Koran.
4.Because they offer Namaz.
5.Because they keep Rozas.
6.Because they refuse to accept western values.
7.Because they crticise America.

And the remedy :-

1. They should stop calling themselves Muslims.
2. They should stop believing in Allah.
3. They should stop reciting Koran.
4. They should stop offering Namaz.
5. They should stop keeping Rozas.
6. They should accept western values.
7. They should sing hymns in praise of America.

Very Good.Very Good... Allah Tala apko kaamyabee dey

Re: # 177
dear nameless -- did you have to spoil this article for everybody by declaring the distinguished professor a counterfeit coin -- writing checks to himself of 50,000 pounds and then 70,000 pounds for his son-in-law -- now that is called a truly self-employed professor -- hiding under his better-half`s skirt to avoid the creditors....

Islam revival project`s financiers plus those three kids should be a lttle wary of the tourist professor after what the gentleman scholar did to Farrukh and Jamil on Jinnah project.

One only hopes the good professor is not `self-employed` again....

there goes all that good work on the revival of Islam -- as Ghalib would say about Professor Ahmed`s work: jiski bunyad hee meiN lug guee deemuk -- aisi building ka keya karay koee....

still I would rather believe Bina than Irfan Hussain.....

#180 by HP

Ama yaar, are you a part-time detective, or what?!!!

[Akber claimed that Omar Qureshi wanted to work in the movie.]

So, our very own Omar the Quraishi is a jilted movie star! That is barely a notch below a jilted woman in love!

And we all know what they can wreak!

Baap re baap!

Now HP, let’s see how good a detective you make. Who would have been Omar’s leading lady?

Nobody from around here, I suppose!

#181 Dotty

Ama yaar...

[I don`t think Ahmed would`ve found a Pakistan writer to do this. They`re not good enough.]

Hmmmm....

You maybe right dotty. Lets hear it from Omar.

The cricket commentator Qureshi was not into this as far as I know abt this controversy but who knows.

What I recall now Akber accused Omar Rashid Qureshi who was a Dawn staff.



Jamil Dahlvi`s father S.K Dhalavi was a foreign secretary for Pakistan during the Ayub Regime. He was known for his integrity. I have met Jamil a couple times in London and in Karachi. He is married to someone known to our family.

Jamil seemed like a good guy but there are many things that go into these projects. Jamil was a film maker by profession. I don’t know what his trade is now but knowing the family, I would take jamil over Akber anytime.

Re: # 180
there was another by the same name - he was a great journo - and the Dawn bawa`s bossom friend - a cricket commentator, etc etc. Think he was mullah`s uncle - could be wrong here (maybe Omar Q could confirm it).

The Farukh Dhondy (then channel 4`s man) interview to OUTLOOK - where he suggest that the Professor Asked him to keep stum about writing the script for the Jinnah Movie. The interview itself is interesting for other factors ....

http://www.outlookindia.com/10question.asp?listauth=t&secname=Arts+%26+Entertainment&fodname=20000306

On how Akbar Ahmed asked him to script Jinnah and keep quiet about it

Did your perception of Gandhi and Jinnah change after scripting Jinnah?
The film looks at things from Jinnah`s point of view. But I don`t think my views have changed. Gandhi was one of the greatest figures of the 20th century. But Jinnah also genuinely felt that Muslims were under threat.

Was the writing process difficult?
It was a pretty rough writing assignment because I began with being completely out of sympathy with the subject, and I did it by telling Ahmed I`ll write what I find out.

Why do you think Ahmed asked you, an Indian, to script the film?
I kind of knew him at Cambridge, I`d worked with the film`s director before and I don`t think Ahmed would`ve found a Pakistan writer to do this. They`re not good enough.

Did you face a conflict in scripting a film of this sort?
I stuck to what contemporary historians gave me, and they think Jinnah wasn`t as bad as we in India have made him out to be. The Partition was sad, and Jinnah shows that.

Why was the fact of your having scripted the film kept secret?
It was to protect Ahmed from how the Pakistanis would look upon a film written by an Indian, and an Indian socialist at that.

How did you react to Ahmed`s admitting your involvement?
No skin off my nose. It was to protect him. He and Jamil Dehlavi have had a quarrel and that fact`s become exposed in the course of the quarrel.

Has this soured your relationship with Ahmed?
Of course. And just to clarify things, Dehlavi cooperated with the production of the script. He read the drafts, made suggestions, was very much involved and Ahmed was not.

Why did you script it and risk the controversy?
For money, for fun, for creative challenges. But I`m not ghosting any more scripts now.

Does the film suggest the Partition was a good thing?
Partition was brought about by a lot of personal factors. What the film does say is the decision to partition the country was taken in difficult circumstances for all sides.

Were you happy with the end result?
Christopher Lee, the guy from Dracula, plays Jinnah. It`s well-directed, fairly well-acted.

Dotty and others...

Look folks! I dont know how true this story is but Akber on many occasions had accused presumably, our own Omar R Qureshi, formerly of Dawn for destroying Akber’s game before the movie was released.

Akber comes up with schemes every two years and I don’t know what his motivations are. He may be completely sincere or maybe a scam artist, but he does seem to run into problems regularly with every project.

I think this current project may just be another way for him to make some money or establish creditability in the academic world.

Akber claimed that Omar Qureshi wanted to work in the movie.

I hope Omar reads my post and confirms or denies this. This could be an identity issue too. But as far as I know, there was no other Omar Qureshi working for Dawn in 1999-2000.

and then this from the paper pf mantolives` The Daily Times - the waters were so muddy that they made people here cringe in embarassment. And all for paltry sums when compared to the stature of Jinnah! Professor Ahmed was at the centre of this controversy. Sad to see that a man of his stature was dragged through this ordeal.

Sunday, November 17, 2002

Jinnah movie company goes ban