Islam and the Age of Globalization

I see we have a new monkey from India on chowk letting off the 50 years of resentment among Indians at being told by Jinnah to screw off - So, shall we call this a complete PortFolio of monkeys?? :-)

masadi #144 Why dont you let off your steam at those who really hate you - namely these Indians who are right here. Rather than letting off hot air about the US. Or are you abu-al Syed Don Quixote who fights unseen monsters while ignoring the monkeys chattering around you??

Anyway: these postings, #145 and #146, are my contributions of the day to the Desi Geniuses of Chowk. Cheers!!

#144 by rf786

What if tomorrow, gays in India demand the right to choose, exercizing their democratic right, u certainly can oppose or support their demand that wud be your democratic right.

If you argue on these lines, it is a slippery slope. Everyone can have a seemingly genuine reason to feel disaffected. EVen I feel robbed because I (and many more from my community) couldn`t get into the best college due to the Indian government`s reservation policies. Does that mean I demand my own country?

Then, why not allow the same right to those who feel disenfranchized, the urge to go their own way Or, provide them with a better alternative.

What better could have been offered? Wasn`t one man one vote enough? India was/is overwhelmingly Hindu yet the Congress promised a secular state, wasn`t that good enough?

Forcing excuses of diversity or state security or giving them shining Inida placards is all hogwash and in direct contradiction to the basic principles of democracy.

Everybody has a reason to feel disenfranchized. Among Muslims too, Shias, Ahmedis, Wahabbis, Salafis, Deobandis, Barelvis can all feel disenfranchized, does that mean tomorrow you`ll allow them all to exercise their right to self-determination? This right is something that is granted only under specific conditions: like oppression for instance, which led to East Timor. How were Muslims oppressed in pre-Partition India?

Re: # 145

It shows who`s frustrated. A bunch of losers from the state that is in the dying moments of history. Sorry about your frustration. I am showing mirror to you guys. Like it or hate it. See u tomorrow. Till then cringe and collapse like your state.

Re: # 145

We all evolved from monkeys. Why bring in our ancestors in this?

Indians are not frustrated for the loss of some ulcerous regions. It`s good for the body of India & that`s what I mentioned to my fellow Indians.

VRV : Your leaders have been predicting the collapse of Pakistan since 1947. Seems like you need a new Horoscope Man after 50 years of bad predictions. :-)

Mr or Ms Folio: I am glad you think you have evolved beyond the monkey stage. Actually, even monkeys dont walk around smoldering with hatred the way you Indians do.

#152 by tahmed32

I am glad you think you have evolved beyond the monkey stage. Actually, even monkeys dont walk around smoldering with hatred the way you Indians do.

Coming from a man whose countrymen have been waging a Jihad against Indians for almost 30 years now, this is amusing to say the least.

#151 by tahmed32

Your leaders have been predicting the collapse of Pakistan since 1947. Seems like you need a new Horoscope Man after 50 years of bad predictions. :-)

Why just Indians? Even the CIA in your adopted homeland thinks so, as do many Paki commentators.

#152 by tahmed32

I second harish on this. Hate is subconsciously ingrained in Pakistani genes so much that it doesn`t show up in regular interactions. It just spontaneously erupts when a group of shoppers are shopping in Chandni chowk in the form of a suicide bomber or a bomb in a carry bag.

PS : we will never forget Kargil

sri: I am sure you wont forget kargill. You wont forget 1947 either. No problem.

#154 Fortunately, Pakistan`s survival does not depend on Indian wishes.

#155 I hope you are able to read the sub-conscious minds of Pakistan. I am unfortunately incapable of such feats, and can only read what you write on chowk. And what I read is hatred for muslims and resentment at Pakistan`s existence coming from every new Indian who comes to chowk. Must be the polluted Delhi air, I think, that causes this problem.

re. masadi # 142
``That is where you don`t understand the concept of cultural hegemony and the hundreds of billions spent by America to push its culture, advertising, movies, media etc.``
My point isn`t that cultural hegemony doesn`t exist. I already agreed that it does. But such hegemony is not necessarily oppressive and exploitative. And though (or perhaps because of its subliminal nature) it may be unknowingly assimilated in a given `foriegn` land, it does not follow that the people of the former culture are admired by those in the latter. People, after all, are perceived as much more than the jeans they wear and the cars they drive.

``When shalwar kameez becomes as popular among the US public like jeans have become in the Muslim world,...``
Again, too simplisitc. Jeans and or shirt and trousers may jsut be a more practical satorial choice in those climates. But even if not, my point that such copycating does not necessarily lead to admiration still stands. Most of the 9/11 hijackers 7/7 bombers were quite Westernized in their appearnce. That didn`t stop them from hating the `other`.

(I`m curious, masadi: where do you live? I`m betting its NOT in Pakistan)

`` when movies from India have as wide coverage as hollywood in the third world,
LMAO!! Good `un!
(oh crap! were you serious? Oh maaan, please, PLEASE tell me you weren`t!!)

``... then you can talk about reciprocity in cultural recognition, not before.``
I didn`t ever suggest that their is anything eqauting to reciprocity. But two points are to be made here:

1. Those U.S. pushing the forms of cultural hegemony you mention -- mostly brand names -- represent the American people and `American values` only as much as those Islamist extremist exporting terror represent Islam. I am sure, as an avid reader of Chomsky you are only too aware of the extent of power in the hands of the few in America, and of the discourse on how consent is manufactured within the US as much as hegemony is `enforced` without, by these same powers.

2. A large section of America is quite happy to imbibe Hindu/Zen/taoist and any number of New Age `cultural` practises. Even Islam is the fastest growing religion there. And many would argue that multiculturalism is taken to ridiculous heights there (I was reading just the other day that bilungualism (Eng and Spanish) in schools in some state costs the taxpayer five times as much as having just one language, and shows NO payoffs anyway!).

So rest assured, there is little fear of new `culture` in America. It is another matter entirely that mercantile forces (yes, which have an obscence influence on government) perpetuate a cultural hegemony both within and without the U.S. But this can hardly be seen as American values pushed down people`s throats by the American people.

`` Similarly democracy and freedom might not be only American values, in fact I argue that they don`t even exist in America, but such hegemony has made sure that they are patented as ``American``, and that is the way they are recognized around the globe as well.

yaar, again... where do you reside? No one I know, in Pakistan, sees America as a harbinger of freedom and democracy (though many do long for the relative rule of law there, but then living in Pakistan, that`s perfectly understandable). And, oh, I DO know and converse with people from a cross section of society here. Do you?

#157 by tahmed32

Fortunately, Pakistan`s survival does not depend on Indian wishes.

Pakistan doesn`t need India`s wishes to destroy itself, but even America, whose whims dictate who is in power in your country isn`t quite sanguine about its prospects. Not that Pakistan isn`t capable of self-destructing on its own.