Bina Shah June 18, 2006
#1 Posted by PM on June 19, 2006 2:31:59 am
``Woldt noted that Americans must learn to respect Muslims but also Muslims must respect Americans. This struck me as particularly truthful, given that Muslims tend to see themselves as the victims of Western oppression, and often forget that respect and honor are a two-way street, both of which must be given generously in order to be earned, even in the case of those who we consider to be our adversaries. ``
Shabbash, Bina. Well said!
(Though I wonder about the premise. I mean, why are some ``considered to be our adversaries`` in the first place? I would have thought that true respect -- IF it is due, and borne of understanding -- should help us remove the adversarial attitudes. OTOH, if the other is truly and adversary, then should we afford them respect in any sense other than a prudent fear?)
Shabbash, Bina. Well said!
(Though I wonder about the premise. I mean, why are some ``considered to be our adversaries`` in the first place? I would have thought that true respect -- IF it is due, and borne of understanding -- should help us remove the adversarial attitudes. OTOH, if the other is truly and adversary, then should we afford them respect in any sense other than a prudent fear?)
#2 Posted by masadi on June 19, 2006 2:56:46 am
The author writes
<<< Muslims tend to see themselves as the victims of Western oppression, and often forget that respect and honor are a two-way street, >>>
Why does this remind me of whites in the US complaining of being a victims of race discrimination, or Christians in the US complaining of there being a war on `Christmas` or a war against Christianity in the US?
Muslims haven`t been dominating US society or labelling Americans as backward barbarians, if anything due to cultural hegemony of the US in our world, they hold a positive view of the US in general when controlling for effects of the bloody wars conducted in their neighbourhoods~ that is when thier perception changes. Islam is much more accomodative of Christians in respect, we have not seen as many Muslims attack Jesus or the Judaism as Christian attack the personality of the prophet and the Quran.
Read about the entire industry of Western orientalism to understand how this caricature of the `other` regarding Muslims was constructed and became fermented in Western psyche~ there was never a comparable endeavour by the Muslims. Regardless of a$$ kissing by the Muslims, and there are many on here who do that periodically, the West will still see you as the `other` and you will gain no equal respect, the solution is much wider than mere reciprocity.
<<< Muslims tend to see themselves as the victims of Western oppression, and often forget that respect and honor are a two-way street, >>>
Why does this remind me of whites in the US complaining of being a victims of race discrimination, or Christians in the US complaining of there being a war on `Christmas` or a war against Christianity in the US?
Muslims haven`t been dominating US society or labelling Americans as backward barbarians, if anything due to cultural hegemony of the US in our world, they hold a positive view of the US in general when controlling for effects of the bloody wars conducted in their neighbourhoods~ that is when thier perception changes. Islam is much more accomodative of Christians in respect, we have not seen as many Muslims attack Jesus or the Judaism as Christian attack the personality of the prophet and the Quran.
Read about the entire industry of Western orientalism to understand how this caricature of the `other` regarding Muslims was constructed and became fermented in Western psyche~ there was never a comparable endeavour by the Muslims. Regardless of a$$ kissing by the Muslims, and there are many on here who do that periodically, the West will still see you as the `other` and you will gain no equal respect, the solution is much wider than mere reciprocity.
#3 Posted by Bina_Shah on June 19, 2006 3:42:23 am
correction: Hadia Mubarak was not born in Syria, but was actually born in the United States. I have asked the editors to amend this but until they do I thought it would be good to add it here.
You can also go to www.belief.net and look up ``Dispatches from The Muslim World`` for more information and writing on this project by Dr. Ahmed and his team.
You can also go to www.belief.net and look up ``Dispatches from The Muslim World`` for more information and writing on this project by Dr. Ahmed and his team.
#8 Posted by hamidm2 on June 19, 2006 7:43:54 am
Re: # 4
bj,
........ even though i agree that the good professor is wasting his time as long as people like masadi continue to breathe, what does it have to do with jinnah and kashmir ? ......... lookey here, we pakis might not agree on much, but i am ready to spill at least half a glass of merlot and masadi`s blood to protect jinnah`s honor and liberate kashmir from the evil chungals of the unconverted and uncircumcised ......... so stop needing us if you are not prepared to discuss gandhi`s racism and sexual perversions with manto ..........
bj,
........ even though i agree that the good professor is wasting his time as long as people like masadi continue to breathe, what does it have to do with jinnah and kashmir ? ......... lookey here, we pakis might not agree on much, but i am ready to spill at least half a glass of merlot and masadi`s blood to protect jinnah`s honor and liberate kashmir from the evil chungals of the unconverted and uncircumcised ......... so stop needing us if you are not prepared to discuss gandhi`s racism and sexual perversions with manto ..........
#4 Posted by bjk on June 19, 2006 4:47:06 am
So what the heck is the Prof. doing? Saving the big, bad, Western world from misunderstanding Islam – yeah, that’s all it is – a big, massive misunderstanding – easily handled through pushing Jinnah and some public relations and especially by making some US-born chicks wear salwar-kameez!
Easily addressed by getting cozy and being chummy-chummy with the Mushy?
Even though it is hard work and involves making serious sacrifices – like showing up for a photo op!
Three appearances on Oprah! The Prof. probably deserves some kind of medal for endurance – I can barely watch ONE!
So, has the Prof. uttered a WORD on Kashmir? Has he?
#5 Posted by chaltahai on June 19, 2006 6:10:27 am
People, Globalization is haram. Ain`t that right Masadi brother...
#6 Posted by nasah on June 19, 2006 6:46:14 am
btw -- Bina is this the same Professor Ahmed, the Pakistan High commissionor who was accused of embezzling lot of money making Jinnah movie...? Please correct me if I heard it wrong..
#16 Posted by wiseguyin on June 19, 2006 11:53:35 am
Re: # 15
so is that what turly wrote ? that msulims bomb everyone because they are poor....
hmm ... one more reason to contribute to Bush`s coffers ... This race needs to be diminished.
so is that what turly wrote ? that msulims bomb everyone because they are poor....
hmm ... one more reason to contribute to Bush`s coffers ... This race needs to be diminished.
#17 Posted by Urstruly on June 19, 2006 12:30:50 pm
Re: # 15
The relevance is that, that lassaize faire globalization at breakneck speed, and mindless jump of a corrupt, lawless, and unlawful regime in country like Pakistan into this bandwagon using the force of guns is creating a heart wrenching economic disparity. Same is the case with every such politey where there is fledgling democracy or institutions of state are weak and corrupt.. This economic disparity in society is causing a chain reaction at both end of the spectrum. Those who do not have in them to fight the oppression are jumping from the Minar-e-Pakistan, e.g in rural sindh, uptil now since the begining of the year there have been 34000 suicides. Mind you, Pakistan was a society just a decade ago where suicides were unheard of. On the other hand those who can fight the oppression are also following two extreme paths - one path is that they turn on their follow citizens, eg the rate of murder in pakistan is equal to or close to that in US, which makes it the country with second largest homicide rate. Almost every robbery and home invasion now also includes gang rapes of women as well. The second extreme on this group is that young generation is joining the freedom movements all over Islamic world in hordes. This is the ideological militancy or global sedition, if you will, against an unjust international order. You can call it whatever you like, terrorism, militant Islam, bad religion, or whatever but it does not change the DNA of what there is. Remeber, a poor society can survive and even thrive but an unjust society will not.
(by the way the last line is not mine, it is your abbajaan, Churchills line. The legend has it that when War of Britian started and Churchill replaced Atley, the first thing the former asked of his advisors was how the court system in UK was working? was it just and accessible to all? and when Chruchill cofirmed that the court system was working best in UK, he uttered the quote written above and added that ``we can now win this war``.)
The relevance is that, that lassaize faire globalization at breakneck speed, and mindless jump of a corrupt, lawless, and unlawful regime in country like Pakistan into this bandwagon using the force of guns is creating a heart wrenching economic disparity. Same is the case with every such politey where there is fledgling democracy or institutions of state are weak and corrupt.. This economic disparity in society is causing a chain reaction at both end of the spectrum. Those who do not have in them to fight the oppression are jumping from the Minar-e-Pakistan, e.g in rural sindh, uptil now since the begining of the year there have been 34000 suicides. Mind you, Pakistan was a society just a decade ago where suicides were unheard of. On the other hand those who can fight the oppression are also following two extreme paths - one path is that they turn on their follow citizens, eg the rate of murder in pakistan is equal to or close to that in US, which makes it the country with second largest homicide rate. Almost every robbery and home invasion now also includes gang rapes of women as well. The second extreme on this group is that young generation is joining the freedom movements all over Islamic world in hordes. This is the ideological militancy or global sedition, if you will, against an unjust international order. You can call it whatever you like, terrorism, militant Islam, bad religion, or whatever but it does not change the DNA of what there is. Remeber, a poor society can survive and even thrive but an unjust society will not.
(by the way the last line is not mine, it is your abbajaan, Churchills line. The legend has it that when War of Britian started and Churchill replaced Atley, the first thing the former asked of his advisors was how the court system in UK was working? was it just and accessible to all? and when Chruchill cofirmed that the court system was working best in UK, he uttered the quote written above and added that ``we can now win this war``.)
#15 Posted by hamidm2 on June 19, 2006 11:39:50 am
Re: # 7
urstruly,
........... i don`t understand the relevance of your post on this board unless you are trying to suggest that the suicidal dead-enders are blowing themselves up because of their dire economic conditions .......... there might be a kernel of truth to that fallacious argument, but it still does not excuse the ummah from being a royal pain in the keister for rest of the world ........... just because they, and their leaders, cannot come to grips with the intricacies of modern economics, global trade, science and technology doesn`t mean that they have to go on a rampage ...........
urstruly,
........... i don`t understand the relevance of your post on this board unless you are trying to suggest that the suicidal dead-enders are blowing themselves up because of their dire economic conditions .......... there might be a kernel of truth to that fallacious argument, but it still does not excuse the ummah from being a royal pain in the keister for rest of the world ........... just because they, and their leaders, cannot come to grips with the intricacies of modern economics, global trade, science and technology doesn`t mean that they have to go on a rampage ...........
#7 Posted by Urstruly on June 19, 2006 7:24:11 am
FATHERS` DAY IN PAKISTAN
in the age of Globalization

in the age of Globalization

#9 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on June 19, 2006 9:11:17 am
Bina, {``Martin offered analytical observations about how people in different countries had different role models – Pakistan was the first country where Osama Bin Laden showed up as a major Muslim role model, rather than the Middle East``}
Bina,
Thank you for a positive article regarding Prof. Akbar Ahmed and his well-known attempts at interfaith understanding. I have met him and he comes across as a sincere and moderate person. He is very soft-spoken and does present a positive image of Islam. OTOH, being an educator at American University, a notoriously Jewish establishment, his attempts at bridging the diffeences among Abrahamic faiths is understandable. How come he doesn`t have similar feelings of brotherhood and common cause with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains? Maybe it`s just an oversight on his part, or it`s possible that he recognizes which side of his toast is buttered and who applies the delicious ointment.
To be fair, Prof. Akbar Ahmed is certainly a welcome change from the usual Saudi-funded, Wahabi motivated, and thoroughly disgusting ISNA, ICNA, CAIR crowd. Thanks to these fools and their utterly stupid manner of digesting Wahabbi venom, the position of American Musliims has gone from neutral to negative, from welcome to hated, from ignored to hunted.
Considering Martin`s observation about the popularity of UBL among Pakis, one can understand why ordinary, moderate, and peace-loving Paki Musliims have to pay the price for the extremist, virulent, and despised few.
I wish the Professor good luck, but I am not holding my breath in anticipation of any success with this interfaith come to Jesus, kumbaya marsmellow roasting and hand-holding around a camp fire.
Bina,
Thank you for a positive article regarding Prof. Akbar Ahmed and his well-known attempts at interfaith understanding. I have met him and he comes across as a sincere and moderate person. He is very soft-spoken and does present a positive image of Islam. OTOH, being an educator at American University, a notoriously Jewish establishment, his attempts at bridging the diffeences among Abrahamic faiths is understandable. How come he doesn`t have similar feelings of brotherhood and common cause with Hindus, Sikhs, Buddhists, and Jains? Maybe it`s just an oversight on his part, or it`s possible that he recognizes which side of his toast is buttered and who applies the delicious ointment.
To be fair, Prof. Akbar Ahmed is certainly a welcome change from the usual Saudi-funded, Wahabi motivated, and thoroughly disgusting ISNA, ICNA, CAIR crowd. Thanks to these fools and their utterly stupid manner of digesting Wahabbi venom, the position of American Musliims has gone from neutral to negative, from welcome to hated, from ignored to hunted.
Considering Martin`s observation about the popularity of UBL among Pakis, one can understand why ordinary, moderate, and peace-loving Paki Musliims have to pay the price for the extremist, virulent, and despised few.
I wish the Professor good luck, but I am not holding my breath in anticipation of any success with this interfaith come to Jesus, kumbaya marsmellow roasting and hand-holding around a camp fire.
#56 Posted by Kamath on June 20, 2006 6:14:29 am
Re: # 10
You say Bina, that``....I`ve known Professor Ahmed half my life and I wouldn`t endorse anybody who I didn`t have the highest respect for. Professor Ahmed`s integrity and honesty .....``.
Wasn`t Prof. Ahmed the man who was accused by Pakistanis in UK that he skimmed funds that were allotted to the production of Jinnah movie? Was he not the plotical agent of Pak Govt in Bluchistan once defending all that was good in military govts?.
I am sure with all his experience he can cover his tracks very well indeed!
Any comments Bina?
You say Bina, that``....I`ve known Professor Ahmed half my life and I wouldn`t endorse anybody who I didn`t have the highest respect for. Professor Ahmed`s integrity and honesty .....``.
Wasn`t Prof. Ahmed the man who was accused by Pakistanis in UK that he skimmed funds that were allotted to the production of Jinnah movie? Was he not the plotical agent of Pak Govt in Bluchistan once defending all that was good in military govts?.
I am sure with all his experience he can cover his tracks very well indeed!
Any comments Bina?
#10 Posted by Bina_Shah on June 19, 2006 10:43:48 am
All I`m going to say in response to comments like those in Interact #6 is that I`ve known Professor Ahmed half my life and I wouldn`t endorse anybody who I didn`t have the highest respect for. Professor Ahmed`s integrity and honesty are not issues up for debate by me in this board. Cheers.
#11 Posted by Kulharee on June 19, 2006 11:08:43 am
Any effort at any attempt to at least understand the other side should be commended.
More power to Professor, and as Bina ji says in her conclusion that more needs to be done from both sides to bridge this huge gap built on ignorance and lack of trust.
More power to Professor, and as Bina ji says in her conclusion that more needs to be done from both sides to bridge this huge gap built on ignorance and lack of trust.
#12 Posted by Raw_Dust on June 19, 2006 11:09:37 am
Professor Akbar s. Ahmed is a fake. That makes him a darling of `sophisticated` pakistanis by extension. He used to live in cambridge and used to appear in tv talkshows in pakistan posing as some sorta cambridge intellectual. a living breathing example of pakistanyat, i must say. oh and he had no qualms in representing the occupiers of pakistan in UK back in 1999.
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