Lament of a Disillusioned Citizen

salim mian,

.......... i think you are being totally ridiculous about this punjabi thing .... heck most punjabis don`t even speak punjabi once they get an eighth grade education .......... it is a dying breed and nobody seems to care ......

re: #49

Try this chest thumping in Srinagar... I only fire arguments. There you would have to face bullets fired by Kashmiri Muslims.

#46 by HisExcellency on June 22, 2006 3:03pm PT


Kashmiri Muslims are the majority in their state.


non-Kashmiri Indians are a majority in India and if they say Indian Kahmir is part of India, there ain`t anything you can do about it..

reality...you should try it sometime..

re: #43

The APHC`s refusal to talk to Manmohan Singh without Pakistan proves that Pakistan enjoys the confidence of Kashmiris despite the repatriation (non)issue. Clearly, your fears about this issue damaging Pakistan`s Kashmir cause are unfounded.

re: #43

So repatriation of 1 million Biharis is more important than providing jobs to 35 million Sindhis? I thought you were a logical person.

Let`s talk about present issues, instead of past ones. Let`s also talk about issues that affect most Pakistanis, instead of a small minority. Repatriation and Anti-Ahmediyya laws are non issues for the vast majority of Pakistanis. This might change in 10 years when income levels and literacy rates improve more.

Until then, why don`t you think about convincing the Sindhis and Khatam-e-Rasaalat Committee to soften its position on repatriation and Anti-Ahmediyya laws??

re: #44

Why would Kashmiri Muslims want freedom from India when they are already governing Kashmir

New Delhi installed puppet govts in Kashmir from day one... and crushed even political demands with military force. The Kashmir freedom struggle is an ideological one linked to the Two Nation Theory. Kashmiri Muslims are the majority in their state. This majority has been denied the right of self-determination.

Here is the contrast...

Mohajirs are a minority in Sindh. Ever since they formed a political party and won elections, they have been running the government of Karachi. They have been running KMC, the largest metropolitan corporation in Pakistan. Yet instead of creating employment for Mohajir youth, the MQM recruited killers like Fahim Commando in the KMC. When fellow Mohajirs objected, the MQM turned its guns on them.

This is because the MQM is not an ideological party. It has no ideology except to protect the Mohajirs. The injustices it seeks to address occurred 20-30 years ago. But Mohajirs have moved on. They are now part and parcel of Pakistani society whereas MQM is still living in the past.

Mohajirs are losing faith in MQM. Not in Pakistan.

re: #41

If Punjabis support repatriation, Sindhis will hate them for imposing their will and turning Sindhis into a minority in their own province. If Punjabis don`t support repatriation, some Mohajirs will hate them for not letting them increase their votebank.

Punjabis will get the flak either way. But opposing repatriation with draw less flak because there are more Sindhis than Mohajirs :)

HisExcellency #42 {``Why would Mohajirs lose loyalty to Pakistan when they are already governing Pakistan? There are Mohajir generals, Mohajir governors, Mohajir ministers and Mohajir bureaucrats... ``}

Your Excellency,
Here we go again. Let me just go back to my Indian example and you will immediately note the senseless nature of that statement.

Why would Kashmiri Muslims want freedom from India when they are already governing Kashmir - democratically may I add? There are Kashmiri Muslim general, Kashmiri Muslim governors, Kashmiri Muslim ministrs, and Kashmiri Muslim bureaucrats.

Your Excellency #42,

The repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakis is one of the two most embarrassing, harmful, and pernicious issues affecting Pakistan`s image and position. The other one is the ``legalized`` persecution and oppression of the Ahmedis.

How can Pakistan claim to be for the ``freedom`` of Kashmiri Muslims when it refuses to acknowledge its own Muslim citizens ``stranded`` in Bangladesh?

How can Pakistan appear to be sincere about the suffering of Palestinians, when it cannot alleviate the suffering of its own citizens ``stranded`` in Bangladesh?

Am I the only one who can see the ridiculous position that Pakistan has put itself into? Are our Paki Punju citizens so mired in hatred of Mohajirs that they can`t see the harm being done to Pakistan?

re: #36

Why would Mohajirs lose loyalty to Pakistan when they are already governing Pakistan? There are Mohajir generals, Mohajir governors, Mohajir ministers and Mohajir bureaucrats... There are Mohajirs who vote for MQM... and Mohajirs who vote against him. There are Mohajirs who live in Karachi... and there are Mohajirs who have settled in Lahore.

You are painting them as a monolithic community (which they are not) and a suppressed minority (which they once were, 20 years ago).

#40, HisExcellency {``Repatriated Biharis will probably settle in Sindh, so why would the Punjabis object? ... If you can convince your Sindhi brethren (if you are prepared to accept them as such), then Punjabis, Pashtuns and Balochis will also support you.

Will Mumtaz Bhutto, Rasool Bux Palijo and Dr. Qadir Magsi agree to repatriation? Isn`t it reasonable to build consensus first? ``}

Your Excellency,
Here we go again, Paki Punjus playing good copy/bad cop. Yes, pass the problem off to the Sindhis and then wash your hands off. Good strategy, that is exactly why I am picking on the Punjabis - the real culprits and the real power in Pakistan. Just consider the opposition right here on Chowk - mostly Paki Punjus, led by Tahmed2, passionately resisting any mention of the ``stranded`` Pakis.

Also, why should the right of Pakis to return to their own country become a matter of consensus for other Pakis? Maybe, they should realize reality and forget about the whole mess. A number of them have converted to Christianity and may easily obtain visas to emigrate to the West. Then we Pakis will have another motivated group to hate Pakistan - joining the Ahmedis, the Baluchis, and Gilgitis, along with the Mohajirs.

re: #36

Repatriated Biharis will probably settle in Sindh, so why would the Punjabis object? Even if they chose to settle in Punjab, the Punjabi economy can absorb them. If you can convince your Sindhi brethren (if you are prepared to accept them as such), then Punjabis, Pashtuns and Balochis will also support you.

Will Mumtaz Bhutto, Rasool Bux Palijo and Dr. Qadir Magsi agree to repatriation? Isn`t it reasonable to build consensus first?

#37, HisExcellency {``Altaf killed more fellow Karachiites and Mohajirs than any fauji or Punjabi``}

Your Excellency,
Why do so many Paki Punjus use this tactic of stating some fault of others to justify or minimize their unacceptable actions? I have said before that just because Muslims kill five babies in comparison to Christians killing ten babies, it doesn`t make Islam twice as good as Christianity.

Now, please respond to the point I raised in my post #36 - and don`t post another problem as a response to the problem I presented. Thanks.

re: #33

``By the way, the President of India is a momin``

Either he isn`t a momin... or he doesn`t like to pray for the Kashmiris and Gujrati Muslims who are suffering because of his country`s army or the party that made him President.

re: #33

Altaf killed more fellow Karachiites and Mohajirs than any fauji or Punjabi. Faujis and Punjabis only use soccer grounds for wedding parties, but Altaf uses them as torture cells. Ever heard of Khajji ground, Azeem Ahmed Tariq & Hakeem Saeed?

#32 HisExcellency {``or Punjabis aren`t as prejudiced toward Mohajirs as you think.``}

Your Excellency,

I try to be a logical person. Here is my problem. By refusing to repatriate the ``stranded`` Pakis in BD, the Paki Panjabis are sending a very clear and strong message to the Mohajirs of Karachi. Since the Paki Punjabis have no real quarrel with the ``stranded`` Pakis in BD(or ``Biharis`` as they prefer to call them and thus degrade them in some strangely racist manner), it is obvious that there is only one reason for the Paki Punjabis` stiff resistance to the repatriation. The Paki Punjabis do not want to add to the numbers of Mohajirs living in Pakistan. And, since this is type of thinking is behind the Government of Pakistan`s policy on the matter, how can any Mohajir feel loyalty toward a country that wants to keep its type of people out at all costs? I hope you understand why Mohajirs are rapidly losing their loyalty to Pakistan and how Paki Punjabis are quickly becoming the most hated people in Pakistan. Thanks for listening.