Lament of a Disillusioned Citizen

``What has India gained from occupying Kashmir during the last 60 years? ``

Simple.....a free India rejects TNT.........

#77 His Excellency {``And it taught us never to forget that we are Pakistanis and Muslims first... and Punjabis, Sindhis, Mohajirs and Baluchis later.``}

We can start by not forgetting to bring the 300,000 ``stranded`` Pakistani Muslims from BD. :)

#79, His Excellency {``Most Urdu-speaking refugees migrated to Karachi ``}

As pointed out by rf786 below in #78, the Urdu-speakers were not welcome in West Punjab. This fact has been detailed earlier on Chowk by another person who described how Mohajirs from Delhi and western UP were simply led by Punjabi authorities to waiting trains for Karachi. Only Punjabi-speaking East Punjabis were allowed to stay in Punjab en masse.

#77 His Excellency {``This is why we islamized our Army, fought the Russians alongside our Afghan brothers, built a nuclear bomb and shared power with MQM,``}

Sir, do you call the events of 1989, 1990, 1991 spearheaded by BB and NS ``sharing of power?`` I was a little kid then and to this day I am terrified with that ``power sharing.`` But, yes, it was A. Q. Khan, another Mohajir from Bhopal, who built the nuclear bomb for Pakistan. How many A. Q. Khans are living in misery in Bangladesh and how many will convert to Christianity or forced into prostitution to survive?

rf786 #78,
Thank you for correcting the chronology of events - some people forget how we got here.

#76 His Excellency {``Poor Biharis have waited 35 years already. They can wait another 10-15 years too. It is also in their interest to return when they`ll be welcomed with open arms.``}

Suppose you go to Bangladesh and give these people the good news that they can return to their country in 10-15 years, Inshallah. The reason for this additional delay is that Pakis are working diligently to give them a great economy with good jobs schools and healthcare when they arrive. Plus it will take that long just to train the marching band for the reception. I suppose Tahmed4, if he is still alive by then, will personally bestow garlands around the neck of each arriving Bihari. By that time there should be only 200,000 left. A man dying of thirst is not impressed by your claim that if he is patient for a few more weeks, he can drink from a golden cup that you have just sent an errand boy after.

rf786 #75, {``Incorrect, this is just another manufactured myth to protect Nehru`s hidden private life as a full blown faggot. Lord Mount-Bat- ten met Nehrujee when posted in Singapore, it was love at first sight for both, Lady Mountbatten was just the side dish used as a cover for these two closet gays. ``}

Now why don`t they teach this important stuff in schools? More importantly, if Jinnah had pictures on the two of them and didn`t use them for Pakistan`s benefits, I am going to be mad as hell. Just wait till I make my next trip to Karachi.

#74, His Excellency {``So in your opinion any Sindhi who opposes repatriation of Biharis is a terrorist??``}
No, but any Sindhi (or Punjabi for that matter) who opposes the repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakis in Bangladesh is not sincere, not compassionate, not a real Muslim, not a good Paki, and should be stripped and flooged in public with wet sawayyaaN until he learns how to be more humane, a better Muslim and a loyal Paki. When you flog Tahmed3, please make sure that the sawayyaaN are extra crispy.

#73, His Excellency {``I have a counter question: What has India gained from occupying Kashmir during the last 60 years? If suppressing Kashmiri Muslims makes India more secure and stable, then this policy should indeed be continued ad infinitum. But if this policy creates terrorism & communal strife (Gujrat, Babri mosque, Bombay riots) within India, then this policy must be revised in the larger interest of India.``}

Let me answer it from an Indian perspective. The legitimate ruler of the Princely State of Jammu and Kashmir, Maharaja Hari Singh, signed the instrument of accession to India. The rules of partition left this decision to each individual ruler with the provision that he take the wishes of his subjects into account. The Maharaja will say that he did exactly that.

Now, Kashmir is a very important part of India`s political existence. As the only Muslim majority state, it reinforces the concepts of diversity and democracy in India, and frankly, if successful, this approach nullifies the need for partition in 1947. A Muslim province, ruled by democratically-elected Muslim politicians, loyal to the Indian Union is a powerful message to the world and counters Pakistan`s existence to any impartial and logical mind.

The problems of Babri Masjid, Gujrat, and Bombay riots are not even remotely associated with Kashmir. However, they are definitely a legacy of the 1947 cruelty of partition. As I said in my post, bringing 5 million Kashmiri Muslims into Pakistan will still leave 115 million Muslims in India - not that anyone in Punjab or Sindh cares.

#72 His Excellency {``Indian Muslims will only suffer if Kashmir`s independence is achieved through the gun. A negotiated settlement, on the other hand, will satisfy the humanitarian problem of Kashmir, build a durable relationship between India and Pakistan, and harmonize the relationship between Hindus and Muslims.``}

I have a better suggestion. It`s called reunification. In one fell swoop we solve Kashmir, the Indus and tributaries` water problem (which after all is the main issue for Punjab and we should forget all this pro-Kashmiri Muslim crap, please), lack of democratic and secular institutions, and defense overspending.

hshahbaz #71 {``Mr. Salim Chauhan, i really do hope that one day you would overcome your insecurities as a Mohajir who still feels he does not belong to the country ...I know that the mohajir`s trust has been badly hurt by the punjabis which has been a big mistake but we all have to rise above this mistrust in order to survive.

Shahbaz Sahib,
Very sincere and extremely wise words. You and Mantolives Bhai are two of the extremely few Pakistani Punjabis who have expressed such compassion and goodwill. That is all that would have been necessary to reassure the Bengalis in 1971, the Mohajirs in 1973, 1986, 1989, 1990, and 1991 and the Baluchis in the 70s and even now. You have to be a real minority to understand the meaning of insecurity. When your own soldiers occupy your own city to shoot your people, it is bound to make any loyal citizen rather insecure and less loyal. Decent Pakistani Punjabis have never realized the hatred their soldiers are spreading all over Pakistan at their expense.

Even here on Chowk, we are hearing hateful words and profanity hurled by several Pakistani Punjabis at Mohajirs and some find it humorous to ridicule the misfortunes of the ``stranded`` Pakistanis in Bangladesh. Somehow, they think that by calling them ``Biharis,`` the problem is diminished as one afflicting a lower race of people. While we are on the topic of oppression, it`s about time that Punjabis did the right thing and repeal those stupid laws that discriminate against Ahmadis. They are your own, hard-working, Punjabis who have always been loyal Pakistanis and yes, good Muslims. By the way, I reiterate that I am neither Bihari nor an Ahmedi - certain Pakistani Punjabis have found it convenient to label me as such, again to somehow demean my stance. They feel that if you stand up for an issue, then you must have a dog in the race.

Lastly, Pakistani Punjabis need to understand Mohajirs` way of thinking. During the recent earthquake, the people of Karachi, mostly Mohajirs, outdid themselves in donating, collecting, and sending relief supplies to the earthquake-stricken areas. Very few Mohajirs have relatives or friends among the quake victims, but they were not propelled by any association other than humanitarian and Muslim, and yes, Pakistani. Isn`t it about time that Punjabis displayed some compassion for fellow Muslims and fellow Pakis and did the right thing in bringing home these unfortunate victims from Bangladesh? Nothing less will be enough to redeem our religion and our nation. Thanks.

Re: # 64

Salim ji,

Saligram is another name for Bhagwan Shri Krishn and sir lamentably if Ishwar and Allah were one tab to koi fight he nahin thi.

Regards
Sanatani

P.S. maybe we wcould consider you as Salim only as we took Adnan Sami

salim-chuhan and others
salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.

Aslam Bhai #85 {``salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.``}

Aslam Bhai,
Now we are getting somewhere. Several kind and compassionate people are coming out and supporting this worthwhile cause that is a blight on the flag of Pakistan and the meaning of Islam. Thank you and please bring this up in every forum that you join. May God bless you for your conscience. Ameen.

Aslam Bhai #85 {``salim i agree with you that biharis should be brought to pakistan, it`s despicable the way they`ve been treated by the ruling elite. compare this to uk`s offer to take 50000 mirpuris displaced by mangla dam.``}

Aslam Bhai,
Now we are getting somewhere. Several kind and compassionate people are coming out and supporting this worthwhile cause that is a blight on the flag of Pakistan and the meaning of Islam. Thank you and please bring this up in every forum that you join. May God bless you for your conscience. Ameen.

sanatani #84, {``Saligram is another name for Bhagwan Shri Krishn and sir lamentably if Ishwar and Allah were one tab to koi fight he nahin thi. ``}

Sanatani bhai,
Then I am honored to be called Saligram. :) That`s right, God, Allah, Ishwar, Khuda, Yahveh, Elohim, and other nomenclatures are indicating the same Almighty Creator. Fight ki koi wajah nahin thi or nahin he. It`s like fighting over who has the best parents? Thanks

#70 by HisExcellency

Harish, an Indian blaming Pakistan for creating the Kashmir problem in 1989 is no saner than a Pakistani claiming that India created the Bangladesh problem in 1970.

Yaar I didn`t blame Pakistan for creating the problem, just for turning the problem into a vicious and bloody one.

India losts its izzat the day it forced its Muslim citizens to sing the Vande Matram and bow before the statue of a certain politician Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who liked people to treat him like a god.

Are you talking through your hat? Can you please providence evidence to back your statements? Or is it something that you are taught in your text books? Who forced whom to sing the Vandemataram and when did Gandhi ask to be treated as god?

The provinces consituting Pakistan today were part of the Indus civilization that were forcibly occupied by the British in 19th century.

There you go again putting the usual spin on to India`s identity. Not that I care much.

Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet.

Well, I`m glad the way it is and I`m sure a majority of Indians think like me. After all, I would hate to see Indians associated with terrorism and being subjected to inhuman cavity searches.

Amidst all this, you haven`t bothered to answer my question. I repeat it here:

Why are the ``non-puppet`` candidates in Azad Kashmir required to swear allegiance to Pakistan by signing an undertaking in the nomination form which states that he/she whole-heartedly supports the accession of J&K to Pakistan? Amanullah Khan of the JKLF was refused to contest elections because he refused to sign this undertaking.

His Excellency #70 {``Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet. ``}

Whether they meet or not, the fact is that each of these rivers either originates in or traverses Indian territory - Indus, Chenab, Ravi, Jhelum, Sutlej, Beas, Ganga, Jumna. Yes all of them are Indian, except for one - the dirty and muddy Kabul River that joins the Indus in Pakistan.

Paki ``civilization`` is based on the banks of denial...and I don`t mean the river in Egypt..

HE is a perfect example...he`s still in denial about the IT export figures..or the war in kargil..

``ncorrect, this is just another manufactured myth to protect Nehru`s hidden private life as a full blown faggot. Lord Mount-Bat- ten met Nehrujee when posted in Singapore, it was love at first sight for both, Lady Mountbatten was just the side dish used as a cover for these two closet gays.``

And the faggot Jinnah was hiding in the closet and jerking off. Heck it was the jealousy that made him mad and strive for Pakistan.

``The subcontinent was just a conglomeration of independent families with their own heads and traditions. Our mother was the Indus Valley and it still is.``

Yeah, the Ganges is my mother, a Punjabi with family ties going back generations to the land of Punjab in the vicinity of Potohar. Whereas Indus is the mother of Jinnah and Liaqat, those who never came close to Indus till they took power based on a religion of Arab traditions. Akbar Ahmed may be able to sell that snake oil to Punjabi Mussulmaans, please don`t try the same with us.

``Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet. ``

Actually the Hindu religion, tradition and history ranges from present day China to present day Afghanistan, crossing through the Ganges as well as the Indus. It is your Allah and Mohammad who are Arab citizens, and therefore foreigners in the land of Bharat.

Democracy is nothing but a gateway to make easy money in billions.The Surrey mansions.The Raiwind Palaces. The money in the Swiss banks.

For Lord`s Sake, when would you understand that democracy is nothing but a wheel of illiteracy which runs to feed the few rich politicians who are hell bent over to disintegrate.

Nawaz was opposed to Benazir and so was Benazir; when both had the rule. Now they are respected Brother and Sister. For what?? For you?? Or me??

To hell with constitution. All what is wanted is good and economic and standardised living for the common man with all basic amenities coming in at ground level prices.

With Democracy you vote for corruption and costly IPPs which are till today restricting establishment of Industries. Thanks to Zardari.

These politicians are nothing but pile of human waste given a human face. Mittal`s acquisition runs into some billions. These Political Morons could have thrown in more to have it under their belt. They have more than they count.
They don`t need to. They know they get their westernised and americanised dog food the easy way and more than what they would get from the acquisition of Arcelor.

To hell with Democracy..!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hey Hindus read this about your Bharat maa or whatever you call you iece of shit country http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/5125810.stm
Kaptain I totally agree with you. people sit here and tout the democracy horn while conveniently forgetting the wonderful years of Benazir and Nawaz when the country was on the brink of bankruptcy. They forget the mansions, the killings, the illegal accumulation of wealth. They forget that they had no voice in that so called democracy. Just because they hear parts of what the West is telling them they really think they know everything. They forget the zamindars and the waderas and the jahil high school pass doodh walas who were sitting in the assemblies. they forget the idiots who were our finance ministers. they forget the devastation that took place. People were tired of Zia and wanted demcracy. they got it but Benazir and Nawaz really took advantage of people`s fears. They kept accumulating wealth without anyone holding them responsible. On Benazir`s order 1200 men were either killed or heavily injured in Hyderabad. Nawaz was so drunk with power that he tried to kill the military general. When people open their mouths about democracy in Pakistn, remind them that democracy cannot work in Pakistan. The waderas, and zmindars, and industrialists will never let it prosper. Once again Pakistan will go towards bankruptcy and once again a general will come and people will come out on the streets to greet him and once again we will read stupid articles like these after 5 great years in which Pakistan will actually prosper. Why because people again will forget about benazir and nawaz and what they did and will again stupidly ask for DEMOCRACY....