Lament of a Disillusioned Citizen

Re: # 64

Salim ji,

Saligram is another name for Bhagwan Shri Krishn and sir lamentably if Ishwar and Allah were one tab to koi fight he nahin thi.

Regards
Sanatani

P.S. maybe we wcould consider you as Salim only as we took Adnan Sami

Sanatani #62, {````Paki Mohajir general`` is like Holy Roman Empire not Holy, not at all Roman much less an Empire. ``}

Sanatani,
That is funny LOL. Thank you for suggesting some excellent names for my use. I kind of like the Saligram one - before I change, what does it mean?

By the way, is your name ``sanatani`` somehow pertaining to ``Suntan?`` Jai Shree Ram, Khuda aap ko khush rakhey, mere bhai. Allah Ishwar ek hi naam - I mean it.

hshahbaz #61

Shahbaz Sahib,
Thank you for your decent and sincere post. In principle, I agree with your desire to have a democratic Pakistan. How we get there is the issue. As far as Mushy is concerned, I am under no delusions concerning his sense of morality or justice. After all, he is a product of the Paki Army - an institution that has never won a war outside its borders and has lost one or two within. I prefer Mushy over the Sindhi/Punju ``democratic`` politicians for the simple fact that, being a Mohajir, somehow restrains him from committing the blatant massacres perpetrated by his predecessors. It`s akin to the Jewish overseers at Nazi concentration camps - they were slightly less cruel than the real animals.

As I mentioned before, democracy is the solution - provided that the prerequisites be in place for its permanence and effectiveness. I had stated some suggestions (dividing up the four provinces into 12 or more, English as official national language, secular state, repeal of anti-Ahmadi nonsense, and repatriation of ``stranded`` Pakis from BD). Thanks for listening.

Contray to common Punju propaganda on Chowk, I am neither Ahmadi nor Bihari and do not have any relatives or friends in these communities. My passion for their suffering is based solely on morality, decency, and the fact that the same could happen to people like me.

Hamidm2 #51 {``salim mian,
.......... i think you are being totally ridiculous about this punjabi thing .... heck most punjabis don`t even speak punjabi once they get an eighth grade education .......... it is a dying breed and nobody seems to care ......``}

Hamidm Sahib,
Will they hurry it up, please?

Seriously, if nobody cares, the message did not get through to Mullah Tahmed4, Ali1, and Atif2 - all numerically-suffixed Paki Punjus gloating over their racist, prejudiced, and shameless bigotry while proclaiming superiority of Punjuhood.

Re: # 68

{I must come to the defense of the late Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru, formerly of Allahabad and Kashmir. Mr. Nehru, while proven to have banged Edwina Mountbatten, among many others, never had any intimate relations with Lord Louis - other than sharing a Cuban with the King`s cousin now and then}

Incorrect, this is just another manufactured myth to protect Nehru`s hidden private life as a full blown faggot. Lord Mount-Bat- ten met Nehrujee when posted in Singapore, it was love at first sight for both, Lady Mountbatten was just the side dish used as a cover for these two closet gays.

#67 akpower {``Mr. Nehru had intimate relations with Lord Mountbatten``}

Sir Power,
I don`t want to butt in during your public discourse with bjk, a fine Indian friend of Chowk. Nevertheless, I must come to the defense of the late Mr. Jawaharlal Nehru, formerly of Allahabad and Kashmir. Mr. Nehru, while proven to have banged Edwina Mountbatten, among many others, never had any intimate relations with Lord Louis - other than sharing a Cuban with the King`s cousin now and then. This is OK because the cigar smoking preceded Bill Clinton and Monica Lewnisky by at least half a century. On the other hand, the intimate meeting between Lord Louis and Hazrat Janab Mohtaram Quaid-e-Azam Mohammad Ali Jinnah Sahib Rahmatullahalaih must have been quite interesting. How can one explain an otherwise brilliant yet elderly man agreeing to the ``bag of goods,`` the proverbial ``Brooklyn Bridge,`` that Mountbatten sold him and he called a ``moth-eaten Pakistan?``

Re: # 69

Don`t be an ignorant fool by using the convenient baton of generalization to back your argument. But I guess idiots like you can do no better. I wasn`t talking about world issues, my comments were just about the discussion boards here at chowk. So, I repeat my question, don`t you have anything better to do with your pathetic life?

#67 by akpower on June 23, 2006 10:29am PT


from site to site and forum to forum to bash Pakistan or Pakistanis


That`s right...People who ``bash`` Pakiland by posting news articles are why the world looks at Pakis as terrorists...
If weren`t for these ``bashing`` Indians, Pakis wouldn`t be singled out for ``special`` treatment when they landed at western airports..a whole bunch of pakis, from california to virginia to maryland to georgia to canada to the UK to australia, wouln`t be busted for terrorism...


the power of Indians to influence reality by posting on a web message board continues to amaze me...

re: #harish_hyd

Harish, an Indian blaming Pakistan for creating the Kashmir problem in 1989 is no saner than a Pakistani claiming that India created the Bangladesh problem in 1970.

A mother that treats some of its children as second-class citizens, does not deserve to be respected. India losts its izzat the day it forced its Muslim citizens to sing the Vande Matram and bow before the statue of a certain politician Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi, who liked people to treat him like a god.

So what you really call `mother India` is a myth, an artificial entity created by the British during the 18th and 19th centuries. The provinces consituting Pakistan today were part of the Indus civilization that were forcibly occupied by the British in 19th century.

Save that mother allegory for your `nickerwallah` brethren. The subcontinent was just a conglomeration of independent families with their own heads and traditions. Our mother was the Indus Valley and it still is. Your mother is the Ganges valley. Just like the courses of these great rivers don`t meet, our histories, religions and traditions also don`t meet.

Mr. Salim Chauhan, i really do hope that one day you would overcome your insecurities as a Mohajir who still feels he does not belong to the country he was born in( which of course i assume). If only we could move on from our own social problems and face other problems (like these indians on these forums blatantly abusing pakistan while we fight). I know that the mohajir`s trust has been badly hurt by the punjabis which has been a big mistake but we all have to rise above this mistrust in order to survive.

Before i go, i will just add: hats off to akpower for showing the mirror to these indians who would bow before the racist gandhi but die before accepting that what jinnah did was a direct consequence of the stubborn congress who left no choice for jinnah, a die-hard nationalist to give up his idealism and look at the reality, which meant to accept atleast the ``moth-eaten Pakistan`` than rather burn in Gujarat.

re: #63

Indian Muslims will only suffer if Kashmir`s independence is achieved through the gun. A negotiated settlement, on the other hand, will satisfy the humanitarian problem of Kashmir, build a durable relationship between India and Pakistan, and harmonize the relationship between Hindus and Muslims.

Two of the three parties to this conflict are today ready for a negotiated settlement. It is the third party which has stead fastly refused to settle this issue through dialogue. So your question should be posed to New Delhi. After all, it is their troops who are patrolling the streets, lakes, forests, highways, valleys, mosques, schools and bazaars of Kashmir.

re: #63

I have a counter question: What has India gained from occupying Kashmir during the last 60 years? If suppressing Kashmiri Muslims makes India more secure and stable, then this policy should indeed be continued ad infinitum. But if this policy creates terrorism & communal strife (Gujrat, Babri mosque, Bombay riots) within India, then this policy must be revised in the larger interest of India.

re: #63

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As for requesting extremists to soften their views, why don`t you request Al Kayda and the Tally Ban if they would consider softening their views (and actions)?
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So in your opinion any Sindhi who opposes repatriation of Biharis is a terrorist??

Re: # 76
HE
Some historical perspective please, APMSO came into being well after the Jeay Sindh, Pushtun Students (PSF), Baluch Students (BSF) and Punjabi students federation. All these student parties were active in Karachi educational institutions while the urdu speaking students wud congregate with JTI or the leftist/liberals. While the four provinces had their active ethnic political parties and were accepted by the major parties, urdu speaking boys and girls were marginalized to mainstream political parties. Not only did these ethnic parties support their kin, they openly differentiated against the urdu speaking population of karachi and hyderabad. Bhutto made it ever more easier to discriminate against the urdu speaking population by imposing quotas in universities and jobs and pursueing policies of disenfranchising mohajirs.

If Punjab was such a huge surplus economy, then why did all migrants come to karachi? Three reasons: Karachi had a small but diverse population, being the capital became the obvious choice for migrants and finally Punjab was unwilling to accept migrants. This economic story holds no water because Pakistan at the time of partition had no economy, everything started from the scratch and was helped in early days by the nawab of junagadh, Habib family and other rich Mohajir families.

Economic imbalance cud have been corrected by opening schools in poor localities, setting up businesses in the interior, diversifying the economy and not murdering it by nationalizing industries and banks. Fact is,such ideas reek of racial tensions and used to suppress minorities.

re: #63

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There are 15 million Mohajirs. Although they have the highest literacy rate in Pakistan and they account for a large chunk of the GDP, they will never equal in numbers the population of Sindhis
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Agreed. However, the bone of contention between Sindhis and Mohajirs is not ethnicity. It is economics. In 1947, Punjab had a surplus economy so the millions of refugees who migrated to Punjab were absorbed in the Punjabi economy.

But Sindh always had a deficit economy with little agriculture. Most Mohajirs migrated to Pakistan in the 1950s for economic reasons. These immigrants were educated, urbanized and therefore preferred to settle in Karachi, the biggest city. As a result, the already weak economy of Sindh came under more pressure. Mohajirs dominated the bureaucracy and white collar jobs of Pakistan until the 1970s when Z.A.Bhutto redressed the economic imbalance between Sindhis and Mohajirs with a quota system. This led to unemployment, prejudice, urban crime and the APMSO.

As the economy gathers pace, there will be plenty of jobs and resources for both Sindhis and Mohajirs. That will transform the Sindhi-Mohajir relationship from a competitive one to a cooperative one. When that happens, Sindhis will not feel threatened by the influx of 30,000 biharis and MQM will not try to gain political mileage from this influx either.

Poor Biharis have waited 35 years already. They can wait another 10-15 years too. It is also in their interest to return when they`ll be welcomed with open arms.

Unlike Kashmir, this is a humanitarian problem that can be solved through dialogue and economic growth.

re: #63

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Considering how much attention Paki Punjus pay to numbers, where was their sense of counting when they alienated 75 million Bengali Pakis in 1971?
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1971 taught us a lot of things, including counting. It also taught us that nations with nuclear weapons don`t get invaded. And it taught us never to forget that we are Pakistanis and Muslims first... and Punjabis, Sindhis, Mohajirs and Baluchis later. This is why we islamized our Army, fought the Russians alongside our Afghan brothers, built a nuclear bomb and shared power with MQM, ANP, BNP and MMA when they won a clear majority at the polls.