War for Peace

Re: #201,

The Power Elite analysis, well established, describes the US institutional setup not the NBA coaches, neither are the roles of basketball coaches (or fry cooks) the same as company board directors serving across both institutional as well as organizational lines, determining the size of the national economy as well as crafting policy. Interchangeability acorss the institutional structures of political, economic and military is in many cases the source of the interlocking directorship, which facilitates a community of interests- comparing that by way of analogy to a coach, moving from one team to the other, (or a fry cook moving from Mc Donalds to Burger King) is quite pathetic, it shows that this person understands neither interchangeability nor the concept of the interlocking directorship, nor how vested these corporations are in the US political economy and its foreign adventurism. Throwing out smoke screens/ red herrings, based upon ignorance, has become the hallmark of people like hamidm.

Zeemax #200, the time has arrived when the consequences of doing nothing might be beyond catastrophic. Around 50% of the world`s population is living on less than $2 a day, with many of them under $1 a day, and the vast majority of the others, not much better. In the next 50 years, because of just such poverty, we will add 4 billion more to this planet`s population, and the power elite would rather sacrifice all than have anyone attempt to change the hegemonic structure of their power. They are conscious of their class, the vast majority of the others are distracted or too busy scrapping for survival to develop any kind of consciousness of what is affecting their lives and its connection to the larger setup of society. If too many nails stick out, as conscious human beings, maybe we can dislodge the structure that the unconscious, like damn fools, are supporting.

zeemax,

........ first pat riley was with the lakers and now he is with the heat - does this prove that a `power elite` runs the nba ? ........ it is all about winning

Masadi,

By proving the point of interlocking directorships, you have proven your point of the power elite. It is undeniable. Any opposition still after that is BS.

I know the corridors of power. I know how a nail that sticks up its head is hammered down. That`s the way it is, till it is brought down through guillotines in the city squares.

But I don`t want to be a Robespierre. Neither should you ...you know what happened to him ...

Re: # 197

ahmedmadani sahib,

......... thanks for your response .... i agree with you on women, daughters and cats - as the father of two daughters and no sons i worry about them and, like you, i have observed that the youngest ``think too highly of themselves and they feel they look too good and they are gift of god`.......... but i don`t agree with you on steel - the best thing the government can do is to sell psm to mittal so that he can junk it - any steel mill of that age needs billions of dollars in investment to make it run efficiently ......... it is better to junk them and build defence housing societies like they did in pittsburgh usa which, thirty years ago, was not fit for human habitation but is now ranked as one of the best places to live in the usa ......... karachi can be like pittsburgh ......

.......... also it is against islam to make an integrated steel mill because it makes `pig iron` ........ on the other hand mini-mills which use scrap metal are islamic and in accordance with sharia .........

Re: # 193
I am seriously thinking of writing article of how to teaching maths to school and college students by parents or for tutors based on my experience . I wonder can it be publishable topic ?

Re: # 195

Thanks Mr.H for your response. I am grateful for your good words I could have used that in younger days. Still I differ from you in these matters. I liked that chart. At center is Evil Bank city bank of America. And Prof. M Asadi was bringing to notice the their banker / officer controls Pakistan as PM of pakistan. See recently P M. and his bank had brought PMS at throw away price and fortunately peopele like prof M Asadi objected to this american ellite conspericy to loot and thiefs were denied prize. As after wards they would have sold that to bad boy Indian mittal who will junk steel mill and biuld all defence housing col.
I agree US univesities are not good for women/ young women as too many people come from any where and too much individual freedom gets to them and they marry wrong nationality people. From my experiece do not send daughters to usa for edeucation specially if they are engineer as they are surrounded by mostly men and that lead to wrong things and they get spoilt and marry wrong people. I think they are few so they get all mens/boys attention as they are also in stupid age and they do not think what parents will feel shame by their actions. Also my observations if you have all daughters then then last youngest is danger as they think too highly of themselves and they feel they look too good and they are gift of god to foolish boys. And that little gets too angry for words from father who is all worried. And you are in Karachi and you get phone of marrying wrong person for wrong trivial reasons it happened many years but still I can not forget stupidity, but I forgive and said all well that ends well in grand daughter. Problem with women is they are complex and even they do not understand themselves. Some times it difficult to understand what they are saying yes or no as some times yes means no and no means yes. They abandon father and run away. So now I just do not want to pay attention to any body but two my cats, they are loyal to me. Old male cat always sleeps near typing board or on my lap and helps me now he is my son and good boy.Did you note what he did , hope you read( kindly read0. I am thinking of writing letter of thanks to him and give him good fatty food on his birthday he is 11 years now. Poor thing doctor had taken part of his ear was not heeling but he is better now. I am thinking of sending his picture in some comment. When He was young he was 10 Kg big cat and I use to be afraid to catch him when he was mad.Any way I want to say thanks to my cats. No body listened to me any time all women, wife and daughters, daughters become like mothers. So young man should always study more future mother in law as daughters just copy mothers. If they do not like site of MO In law then they should run away.
Any way Prof M Asadi has brought some salient points and I agree with many though not all. sorry little loose way of writing.
Anyway thanks for comment. Good day every body specially men with all daughters.

#194 feroz writes <<< The trivality was used to describe not anything you said, but to highlight the non-topical aspects of the posts, which did not address the issuses of your article. >>>

Then we have no disagreement on that issue.

Re: # 192

ahmedmadani sahib,

......... you are my favourite interactor on chowk and i have a lot of respect for your wisdom, but i am afraid you have been duped by this charlatan who claims to be a professor ........ sir, i humbly beg to state that the man is a bonafide idiot and that american campuses, specially community colleges, are full of these looney characters ......... i am sure you have heard of ward churchill and this other fool at u of wisconsin who claims 9/11 was carried out by the us government ........ in other civilized countries they lock up these people in lunatic asylums, in the us they allow them to run amok on college campuses - it is a great country .......... but, as you would say, it is lufangebazi ........

Re: # 190

I am simply at a loss, to understand you. When I talked about the trivality of the posts, I used the word ``ours`` and that meant both of our posts and not just yours. The trivality was used to describe not anything you said, but to highlight the non-topical aspects of the posts, which did not address the issuses of your article.

As to the taxes and the Iraq war, Mr. Asadi, I do not hold you personally responsible for supporting the war. If that was the case, then by my logic I should also hold Cindy Sheenan responsible, because she is also an American tax payer. That would be highly illogical.

The comment was in reaction to your post and it was meant to impress upon you the idea that I do not appreciate being called names. I think you got the idea, because in the manner you lashed out at me, suggested to me that you did not like also liked being called names. I wanted to make a point and by making you angry, I made my point and which was that calling names is a self-defeating proposition.

Ciao

Re: # 192

I was first to refer as Professor then other picked up clue. I have to state that. All you can check that. Most of you wanted to degrade him saying Asadi. It was subconcious of your mind , already predijuced.

Re: # 191
I think now a days thinking wrong way and bad stuff drinking is fashionable. Prof M Asadi put his thesis if some body does not like is fine but calling names and suggesting people to change profession and jobs or suggesting to have suicide belt ready is not funny its sad way of response is uncalled for. I find british manners better as American ways are reckless and profane. All of people who did personal attacks on him should aoppologize and should learn humility. There is lot of Jalosy factor as you people have to really work hard while professors do not do coolie type job. Actually it is not quantity work but quality of work is rewarded and respected in Universities and for that they are given freedom of thought while stupid coolies can be fired for useing freedom against boss saying he is wrong. You just like fashionable way of writing. You do not like Prof. A Masadi as like children you do not like bitter medicine.
I think not all how got to America are not all sane ,I now think almost 49% expaks in USA, etc are stupid. Sorry but it is my feeling. But good day every body.

Re: # 190

masadi,

......... a sincere suggestion - get a real job and see a shrink !

ferozk,

.......... you don`t have to stoop to masadi`s level - let me do it

#188 by ferozk, this is another attempt by you to resurrect the non-state actor, state responsibility debate. First, the US public does not ``elect`` its representatives in any real fashion, the choices that they are given are extremely restricted, a two party monopoly is not too different than a one party dictatorship, all circumscribed by wealth and who gets covered and what issues are manipulated by an all encompassing corporate media. Second, nation states are artificial entities and those in power in them, regardless of the facade of democracy are similarly artificial and care little about what happens in the local environments of people, they are simply too large and too distant. Further, when a government is moved more by international rather than local issues, you cannot hold the ``local`` public responsible for it. All this setup is coersively enforced and the less than couple of thousand they might extract in taxes at the federal level from me, around 50% of which they relegate to the current military (according to some estimates) does not at all hold me responsible for their policies when I am willing to spend a lot more than that challenging their policies.

#189, there is nothing trivial in my posts, and I wont waste my time proviing that to you because it is irrelevant to this discussion. Please return to the topic on hand, my personality, the AID business and state, non-state actors are not the point here.

Hamidm, when you have such a dense network of interlocking directorship- just one part of the model I`m talking about- even going by your simplistic assessment, it leads to one director looking after the concerns of various corporations across industy boundaries- in short they act as a class block.

Re: Asadi # 172

I hope you would have realized from the trivality of our last few interact posts on how difficult it is to seriously interact, when the discussion veers off the topic to personal comments.

Ciao

Re: # 175

You have raised a very interesting point.

I am responsible for the acts of my government, because in the end, I have to bear the consequences of my government`s actions as they determine and shape the course of events, which effect my existence in Pakistan.

It is another matter that I have no choice in selecting my government or those who rule over me and given the state of affairs in Pakistan, I doubt that I will ever have the opportunity to truly select a government of my own choice through the expression of a ballot.

It would be an act of moral cowardice on my part, to say that I have no ownership on the policies of the Pakistani government, because I did not elect it. I will not claim this argument. When the government of Pakistan acts in my name, without my permission, I am still liable for its actions and my own personal sense of accountibility, will not allow me shy from this responsibility.

As to my taxes supporting a dictator, I will be honest with you and state that would be a very fair and just assessment of my present situation in Pakistan.

I have no objections to admitting the truth and on being found quility, but I do expect others to also stand up and admit the truth and also accept the ``ownership`` of their acts. :)

Ciao

#178 hamidm the other day when my younger daughter asked me why i never made partner i simply said, `because i was lazy and didn`t work hard enough` instead of giving her some cock and bull story about the power elite ...........

hat`s off to you!! it takes a real man to point a finger at himself rather than at others.

Re: # 177 by Urstruly on July 13, 2006 10:06am PT

{Was their assertion based on a belief or wish that such an elite didn`t exist or did they have a sound basis to assert that such an elite does not exist. I want to know why they were defending an undefendable.}

The argument actually was about the hold this so-called power elite has on the world and its political life, and whether there is no opportunity for anyone else to break into this so-called circle. Masadi is totally wrong in his assertions that this power elite is something static and new comers are not allowed into the fold. Hamid is wrong in thinking that corporate America can do no harm. Masadi is wrong in asserting the institutional political and the institutional structure is based purely on power elite`s whims and wishes.

The American people are very smart and the system of checks and balances have continuously destroyed this so-called phantom of power elites. If there is something like power elites its membership is not static but quite dynamic and changes all the time. The basis of masadi`s point of power elite is that they are wealthy and hence unscrupulous. For the most part, and individuals, these people are very authentic, as Hamid has suggested. But, as a collective group of people, if they can get away with it, they will screw humanity. And that is where Joe Schmuck American steps in and say enough is enough.

Hope that clarifies the distinction from hamid`s thoughts and masadi`s thoughts.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 173 by hamidm2 on July 13, 2006 6:45am PT

Hamid:

{masadi,

...... sorry, this is too weird for me to comment on ! }

Why is it too weird? Do you need another round of scotch? uh!

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 180


urstruly,

stop scratching your head ! ...... what i meant was that anyone can be a member of your `power elite` if they work hard enough ......... over the past thirty years i have known many people from rather humble backgrounds who are now on multiple boards and they got there by simply working at it ....... so instead of whining and griping, get off your duff and see if you can make it too .......

#182, Kalyan {``Please read in context. That was my point also.``}

Kalyan Bhai,
Now I get it. Two sarcasms do not make a catechism. Yes, we are saying the same thing - when did you become a cynic like me? :)

Salim_Chauhan #176, Please read in context. That was my point also.

I differ with masadi on most things... but ferozk`s argument that masadi is a hypocrite because his tax dollars pays for iraq is BS.

Re: # 180

Yeah, keep scratching, you might find something in there, if you are lucky.

Re: # 178

so is your argument that, if I had not been lazy and worked hard the US power elite would not exit, but since I am lazy and don`t work hard therefore it exists?


scratching head.

Re: # 178

H Sahib.. All this time I thought Masadi was talking about power tools. But the diagram clearly explains who the real culps are.

urstruly,

....... are mark cuban, michael dell, larry page and sergey brin part of the `power elite` ? ........ if so, where were they a few years ago ? ...... what about mark zuckerberg, who is barely 21 years old, is he part of the power elite ?............. here is a list of under 30 men and women who will be part of the power elite in a couple of years while you are still whining about how unfair the world is ............. http://www.inc.com/slideshow_INC/slideviewer.cgi?list=30under30&refresh=10

......... i just sent this link to my daughter to make sure she doesn`t end up like you and masadi - lazy and incompetent slackers who have failed to compete and now sit around making excuses and blaming their miserable state on the `power elite` .............. we have to be honest with ourselves .... the other day when my younger daughter asked me why i never made partner i simply said, `because i was lazy and didn`t work hard enough` instead of giving her some cock and bull story about the power elite ...........

masadi`s post# 171 proves without any shadow of doubt that there exists a tightly-knit power elite in US. The question whether this power elite is an evil entity or not comes later but first I have to ask this question from those interactors who were so whemently denying the existence of such a power elite. Was their assertion based on a belief or wish that such an elite didn`t exist or did they have a sound basis to assert that such an elite does not exist. I want to know why they were defending an undefendable.

Kalyan #175 {``Ferozk, I assume you pay your taxes in Pakistan. I also assume you take ownership of all of GoP`s policies?
Why do you support military dictatorships with your tax rupees? ``}

Kalyan,
For the same reason that many Americans, like me, have to support a whacko fundo right-wing bible-thumpin Knight Templar, as he goes on a Crusade on taxpayers` expense.

Ferozk, I assume you pay your taxes in Pakistan. I also assume you take ownership of all of GoP`s policies?

Why do you support military dictatorships with your tax rupees?

quiz #1

...... if you are a shareholder in a company that makes widgets, who would you want on your board ?

a) a professor of sociology who thinks that widget-makers are evil
b) a hobo who rides the trains in new mexico and has never seen a widget
c) a homeless person in nyc who lives in a empty widget carton
d) a ceo of a company who is on the board of another company that buys widgets

Re: # 169

masadi,

...... sorry, this is too weird for me to comment on ! ............ now go out, strap on your suicide belt and put yourself out of your misery ! .......... you are a very sick man ....

feroz writes in #171 <<< Asadi, when you start questioning people`s personalities, do not be surprised when they start to question yours and once you set an example and other follow it to your dislike; do not blame them because that is a sign of hypocrisy. >>>

What a sorry excuse for a post. Go back to the interacts on this thread or any thread, whenever I have posted these AHs have attacked me, I have never made personalities an issue.

He writes

<<< all I can add is that as long as you keep supporting the United States` military operations in Iraq, with your tax dollars, you are contributing to the carnage yourself >>>

Definitely not, I have no choice, the little money I earn is already pre-taxed by coersive measures on threat of imprisonment if I should so refuse. What kind of UBL esque idiotic argument was this? The tax that they collect from me, by these coersive measures wouldn`t even pay for a standard issue M-16 rifle and it is not willingly paid.

Then he writes

<<< The most galling example of your hypocrisy is that you are calling me a hypocrite, when you are yourself a hypocrite! >>>

Another sorry excuse of an argument. Might I suggest you return to the topic or get the hell away from this thread with your personal attacks. People like yourself, that our keeping our youth deceptively ignorant even as their human potential is being robbed by the elite whose ways your worship. I don`t give a damn about what you think about me.

re: Asadi

Apprently, you enjoy to abuse and ridicule people, who disagree with you. As to your comments about addressing the topic of the article, I tried to discuss the article but you were too busy calling me names and seemed more eager to discuss my intelligence than in answering my questions. Now, you have started to call me a hypocrite. It is very hard to discuss this article with you, when you are not answering any questions related to it. You mentioned that you have already answered my questions. You have simply answered what you wished and ignored those aspects of my questions, which you did not wish to answer and that is not the same as claiming that you have answered questions.

As to the carnage in Iraq and my attempts to stop it, as you have suggested, all I can add is that as long as you keep supporting the United States` military operations in Iraq, with your tax dollars, you are contributing to the carnage yourself and if you are against the war, you should stop your financial contributions that are fuelling this illegal war. You claim to be against the war and you cry for the innocent Iraqi victims, and yet you support a government with your taxes that kills the Iraqis in an illegal war. The Janus like nature of your acts and intentions prove beyond a doubt, that it is YOU who is a true hypocrite and not I.

As to HP; HP and I disagreed a lot and we will disagree a lot more in the future, but in all of those disagreements, HP never personalized the issues and HP addressed his comments to my ideas and not towards my personality, you do.

Asadi, when you start questioning people`s personalities, do not be surprised when they start to question yours and once you set an example and other follow it to your dislike; do not blame them because that is a sign of hypocrisy.

The most galling example of your hypocrisy is that you are calling me a hypocrite, when you are yourself a hypocrite!

Ciao

In addition to # 169,



CLICK THE ABOVE LINK

Kulharee writes <<< but $ to $, it contributes more, >>>

First, this article is not a discussion about AID, second that is just like saying that even though Worker Joe gives 30% of his income in taxes of various kinds, since Corporation X is giving 1% it is somehow more generous because dollar for dollar the corporate tax amount will come to be more than Worker Joe. That is not how comparisons are done and generosity determined. The gross amount of AID that the US gave did not exceed the other nations until 2001, and even then if we remove Iraq and the two top recipients of AID before the Iraq war, to whom aid is given for political and not humanitarian reasons, the gross amount falls far short of other nations. Finally you have not and cannot answer the fact that AID in the US according to its own official statements has been foreign policy tied in most cases and results in net loss in most cases from the recipient nation due to such policy requirements and sweet heart deals that follow.


Hamidm, since your question was adequately answered about links between those corporations, instead of accepting the facts as an honest person you come up with further distractions about African Americans and college professors on boards of directors, did you not know that educational institutions, especially the top ones are the ones that serve a vital function for the elite, both as training ground for world view and suppliers of leadership and only those members from the lower echelons are allowed in that clone themselves in the fashion of the dominant ones. The AAs and Jews in the power elite are near clones in their social outlook to the traditional power elite, they have been allowed in due to circumstance, there has been extensive data studies on this by Domhoff and he has published his findings as empirical verifications of the power elite model every decade after Mills published his work in 1956. The latest revision published was in 2005. No amount of ``qualification`` can ever justify the disparity in income between a ceo and and entire regiment of workers combined and the entire point of the discussion, fusion of interests and class consciousness that such institutional arrangement offers the power elite was ignored by hamidm. How else will he justify the lie based upon which he has lived his whole life, some c@ck and bull story about productivity which amounts to inventing ways in which to better fleece workers and line his own pockets.

All what this post by hamidm proves is that regardless of the validity of the answer, well documented, he will still reject it and carry on with his ignorance. Much like the other bigots on here, Hindu or otherwise~ look at their hypocrisy, they don`t give up any opportunity, even distractively construct opportunities to attack Islam at the drop of a hat, engage each other in nationalistic debate and then have the audacity to accuse me because I referred to the well-known repeat violators as ``Hindu`` bigots- which they happen to be and they have adequately demonstrated over the months that I have been here.

And Feroz`s hypocrisy, the same person who was arguing with HP till he was blue in the face that the non state actors like alleged 9/11 perpetrators had their entire state to blame for their acts, in this thread blamed the Muslims for no democracy in the Arab lands, wanted the US to construct an entire militarized corridor across Muslim lands- finds faults when I refer to the most miserable haters on here as ``Hindu`` bigots and that only after they distract all discussions by bringing in Islam into the equation, and attacking me because everything I say gets invisible according to their perception of my ``Muslim`` identity. This hypocrisy is quite baffling and then he talks about ``racing with hares and hunting with hounds``, rather he is a tortoise that suffers from arthritis and a poodle that suffers from gum disease!

Hamidm2 #150 {``salimullah,
.......... you are a very wise man .... mashallah, subhanallah and jazak allah khair !``}

Hamidullah Sahib,
Thanks for your kindness, brother. Just checking - please make sure that the clearance between your ankles and the cuffs of your shalwar is not less than the proper length. Lakhaimullah. :)

Re: # 159 by burpinder on July 12, 2006 3:53am PT

{.....behram (apart from his slumdweller-defecation obsession, the bawa seems fairly astute) etc. ask you relevant questions, ...}

Actually, I must admit, that I was totally impressed by these slumdweller on Bombay`s railroad tracks, who took their bedsheets to help the dead and the injured of this terrible and horrible act of violence.

Dear masadi:

See what you have done to yourself, just because you have no harmony between your intellect and your belief. A true believer like yourself can never be intellectual. So you need to get it straight within yourself first, are you an intellectual or are you a believer? And while you are at it, figure out whether you are a capitalist or are you anti-capitalist? If you are anti-capitalist then you must be the first one to ask the US to get rid of poppy fields in Afghanistan. It has been reported that the US is spending over $50 million to support the Afghan farmers grow rice instead of opium. How about that for capitalism? But Afghan farmers who have more desire for money want to continue to flourish with their opium farming because they make over $4,000 per acre of opium field versus rice farming, which gets them only $15 per acre. Which one would you prefer? eh!

Respectfully submitted,

masadi,

..... it is obvious you have no idea about how the world of business works - not only that, you have a very selective, paranoid and myopic view of the world of big business which provides sustenance to billions of people around the world (with god`s help, of couirse!) .............. typically a board of any fortune 500 company will include a number of people who are ceo`s of other companies simply because they are the best qualified to guide a big business ........ and you will find people on multiple boards because there are only so many of them to go around - and no, anyone cannot be on a board just as everyone cannot run the 100 m in less than 10 seconds ........... and on every board you will find european and asian (tpically japanese) businessmen as well as professors (real professors, not make believe ones!) .......... the purpose of the board is to ensure good governance and increase shareholder value - and that is it ............

................ you mentioned cathleen black who serves on the board of ibm and coca cola - what is wrong with that ? ........ she is an extremely astute business person who has a great track record in the publishing business and is the kind of person most shareholders (and that includes you and me) would love to have on their board to keep an eye on runaway and incompetent executive management .......... you want `active` board members like her who will stand up for the shareholders and the employees ........ i will grant you that in the past a lot of boards have been stacked with people who slept through board meetings and let the management run great companies into the ground ........... now we have kirk kerkorian`s man keeping them awake!

....... and you also failed to mention that the IBM board has two professors on the board (see there is hope for you yet !):

charles vest - president emeritus and professor of mechanical engineering at MIT; formerly he was the provost and vp for academic affairs of the university of michigan; he is a director of e. i. du pont (see, real professors go places!)

shirley jackson - president of rensselaer polytechnic institute. dr. jackson was a theoretical physicist at the former bell labs & professor of theoretical physics at rutgers ...... she is also a director of federal express , marathon oil corp., medtronic, inc., public service enterprise group and the new york stock exchange (she is also black and not on welfare)

in case you are wondering, there is also another african american on the board; he also happens to be the chairman of american express .......

............ actually, most board of directors have at least one or two academics (real professors and not worthless ideologues) and people from non-profit organizations ............... so, if you are really concerned about the `elite` dominating the boards why don`t you try and get on a board yourself ?........... but first you will have to get over your paranoia and start reading jack welch and ck prahalad instead of looneys like mills or whatever his name is ............

p.s. if you are really serious about eradicating poverty instead of indulging in self-serving sloganeering, you might want to read prahalad`s ``the fortune at the bottom of the pyramid``

Re: # 151

Professor, I didn’t ask whether the poor nations should accept or reject the USAid, the question was should US stop giving the Aid? I reckon you are in favor of US completely stopping the economic aid. You are farther from the truth, yes, US contributes less as a %age of it’s GDP compared to Europe, but $ to $, it contributes more, and if counting the private US donors, US contributes far more than the rest of the world combined.

So let’s hear one more time from you. You are in favor of US stopping all economic Aid?

masadi, I don`t owe you any explanations regarding chowk`s editorial policy for removal of posts. Simply because I am not the editor. But it`s obvious you are a master of sidetracking any discussion into a direction of your choice. So enjoy, we bigots, hindoo and paki alike, will graciously step aside....

not just hindu bigots, professor masadi. pakistani bigots like me also think you are a jerk. so...it is unanimous. :-)

#160 burpinder writes <<< You lie, masadi mian. I quote:

#136 by masadi on July 11, 2006 6:49am PT
As you all can see these Hindu bigots are more worried about me, my personality and what others think of my work than dealing with what is presented. >>>

No lie at all, that was said after they repeatedly diverted the discussion from this article to Islam. It was not used as an argument, and the reason is presented clearly in the quote you reproduce. I am not at all concerned with nationalism, which these people are overly concerned with which prompts them to attack both Islam and anyone they consider to be in the other camp. This is quite obvious on here. I have never got into an India/Pakistan match on here, never and neither do I care about the religion of the person unless he is relentlessly, and irrelevantly attacking Islam, then I might give him a taste of his own medicine.

Then he writes

<<< What`s wrong with you exactly? You abuse and insult every poor sod who bothers to read your article and questions it >>>

Have enough intelligence to form your own claims rather than parrot Ferozk`s nonsense against me. I do not insult anyone unless provoked multiple times and that also involves the usuall AHs on here who have a reputation of deliberately ruining every discussion on the topic that is going on by turning it into an India Pakistan or an Islam bashing session. Quite amazing how Feroz accuses me of being nationalistic, he has constructed an image of mine in his own mind, possibly because he has not been able to counter what I wrote intellectually so its a knee jerk reaction formation where he sees only the negatives and what he wants to see, which is unfortunate. If I was the one insulting people how come I have had zero posts removed by Chowk except one, and all of these others you mention have had multiple removals? Please explain

Re: # 158

You lie, masadi mian. I quote:

#136 by masadi on July 11, 2006 6:49am PT
As you all can see these Hindu bigots are more worried about me, my personality and what others think of my work than dealing with what is presented.

masadi #156 ``we will discuss mannerisms at some other thread``

...like your twitching nose hairs for instance?...

What`s wrong with you exactly? You abuse and insult every poor sod who bothers to read your article and questions it. Some poor semi-literate like ahmedmadani reads and pretends to understand your piece and you are happy?

If seemingly intelligent folks like hamidm, ferozek, behram (apart from his slumdweller-defecation obsession, the bawa seems fairly astute) etc. ask you relevant questions, answer them. At least try to understand their point, without calling their intelligence into question.

Is that so difficult?

Feroz writes in #155 <<< Another point, upon which I am in disagreement with you, is that I see no effacy in identifying your comments to your distractors and questioners on the basis of their religion or their national identity. >>>

I have never done that in fact I have been quite explicitly against nationalism or religious provincialism. These others that you are defending are motivated by just such bigotry when they attack all unrelated posts by me as being Islamic or use that to dismiss whatever I write. You are imagining things and then applying them to me, that tells me you have some personal axe to grind rather than discuss what I write in a scholarly manner

Then he wrote

<<< Sir, truth is not a monopoly which can be controlled and exploited because truth exists in a free market place of ideas, ... >>

Apparently you don`t know that the means of communication have indeed been monopolized and the corporate media has indeed got a monopoly over what they want to cover and the image and definition of ``truth`` they want to portray. Once again your criticism is misdirected against me.

Re: # 121

Hear! Hear!

But seriously, why go to all that trouble ferozbhai? A simple ``chup kar chutiye`` would have sufficed!

#155 ferozk, we will discuss mannerisms at some other thread, the people that I responded in that manner against are the same ones that have abused all limits of decent discourse. Why have you not directed your lecture towards them? The questions that you asked, I addressed, even though they were irrelevant to the discussion on this article and dealt more with countering your perceptions of my motivations. If you have any questions relating to the current article, please relate them to me. If teaching mannerisms is your motivation, I suggest you start with the real abusers first, then your sensibility might have some effect on me as well. When I call one of these bigots an SOB, it is meant as an insult and not as an attempt to question someone`s parentage~ of which I have no clue. Also if you were to shift your sensibilities towards combating the carnage going on in Iraq or other human injustices rather than why I used an expletive, it would serve your purpose as an educator much better, in my opinion.

Thank you for informing me of your concerns.

re: Mr. Asadi

Thank you, for your comments to my last post.

To be perfectly honest with you sir, it is very hard to understand your point of view. In order to understand your point of view, questions need to be asked and from your answers, further questions need to be formulated, which eventually triangulate your point of view and harmonize it with the questioner`s point of view. This is a forum of debate and this means that we will start from the opposite poles and through questions and interactions and explanations, will finally arrive at some form of a consensus.

Citing my own personal example, I have a differing point of view than yours and I tried to ask you questions; to clarify your point of view using my own knowledge base as a benchmark. The idea was to ask you questions to explain to me, what I considered were discrepencies in your argument and instead, of answers; I was abused. I will never understand your point of view, if your intention is to mock those who try to understand your point of view. Intellectual debate and an intellectual environment for learning and understanding issues requires a freedom of tolerance for dissenting ideas. It is for this reason, that I greatly favor the Socratic Method of learning and I do not believe too much in the rote-lecture methodology of teaching as the best means to understand new information and gain any knowledge about it.

Furthermore, as an educationist, you should never stoop to the level of calling your distractors names. It behooves your profession and it belittles your own personality. It does not matter, what the provocation. I do not feel that it is justified in any case to question some one parentage and to cast aspirations upon it, when you are in disagreement with them. Such acts of personalized behaviorisms, do not advance the cause of your intellectual point of view, but only facilitate the impression that your arguments are intellectually insecure. Such acts also prove the Chinese proverb that the first person to raise their hands in an argument admits to defeat and in the case of Chowk; the first person to insult another person and their personas admits to the hollowness of their own agruments.

Another point, upon which I am in disagreement with you, is that I see no effacy in identifying your comments to your distractors and questioners on the basis of their religion or their national identity. Truth knows no nationalism and neither is it ever limited by political bounderies. Ideas and truisms cannot be discarded on the basis of religion and nationality and those who do so, are offering a proof of their own self-admissions that they judge opinions not on the basis of its merit but rather on the perceptions of its origins.

Sir, truth is not a monopoly which can be controlled and exploited because truth exists in a free market place of ideas, where different and conflicting views ply for their share of the truth. The realism of truth emerges from this struggle and it is because of this struggle and truth`s own myriad realities, that truth cannot be judged as a monolithic testament, which is the sole preserve of some intellectual ownership and which disallows and fears disagreements invading its sacred santuary. Sir; those who try to control the truth, intellectually, are no better than those, whom you refered to as exploiters and neo-colonists, because there is also an imperialism of the mind and those, who practice it are no better than those who seek to wage an imperialism of economic and political exploitation.

It is never a good idea to run, with the hares and to hunt, with the hounds.

Ciao

hamidm writes in #153 <<< . because if you are talking about the fortune 500, then tell me what do the following have in common and how are they in cahoots to dominate the world and keep fat welfare mommas stuck in poverty :

google and ge; haliburton and mcdonalds; microsoft and geico; starbucks and boeing; daimlerchrysler and exxon; walmart and pepsi; coca cola and ibm; citibank and pfizer;

this is a serious question >>>

If you really wanted to put it as a serious question, then you wouldn`t have worded it in the way you did. ``Welfare mommas`` have nothing to do with this setup.

First you don`t realize the fact that that these top corporate elite function as a social class, they have their class interest in mind when they deal with the political and the military- when the elite in those institutions are not acting as corporate elite, many float from the political and military straight into the corporate arena. Second you have no clue about the structure of control that is described by interlocking directorship. First each one of these corporations involves extreme concentration and domination in the sector they opearate in, second this is further concentrated by interlocking directorship and interchangibility througout the corporate and polical world of these elite. Now this is no secret. The data on who is on whose board is quite public. Take your example of Coca Cola and IBM, Cathleen Black serves on the board of directors of both Coca Cola and IBM, you can find this connection between any two of these corporations linked through interlocking directorates at this site http://www.theyrule.net which has 2004 data on directors. On the left is the ``find connection`` input. Regardless of these details the important point is the structure that exists that allows such interlocking control, mimicking a mammoth monopoly of everything, and extending that into the political and military arena.

Finally, look at the makeup of influential foreign policy organizations like Council on Foreign Relations and all thinktanks that literally construct US foreign policy and you will find that these top corporations, have members that often serve on its board of directors, they serve as a class block in an uneasy alliance, but an alliance nonetheless.

When war becomes a source of averting crisis that would affect these corporations and the system they have set in place for global rape, they will support it at all cost.

P.S. Instead of Ad Hominem against C.W Mills, why don`t you pick up his book The Power Elite (1956).

Re: # 151

masadi,

i call your bluff ! ........ it is very easy to make a clever-sounding but basically stupid statements like this one : ``What mills stated was based on a very empirical and social-psychological evaluation of the institutional structure of the US and how it evolved, concentration of wealth and power (an ability to get what you want even though others might reject it) resulted in institutional fusing- which is clearly revealed by concentration of economic activity through a few large corporations dominating it``

......... first of all, i don`t know who mills is or was and really don`t care to know - probably some kooky left wing commie professor in a moth eaten tweed jacket making 3000 a semester - but can you tell me which corporations are you talking about ? ........ because if you are talking about the fortune 500, then tell me what do the following have in common and how are they in cahoots to dominate the world and keep fat welfare mommas stuck in poverty :

google and ge; haliburton and mcdonalds; microsoft and geico; starbucks and boeing; daimlerchrysler and exxon; walmart and pepsi; coca cola and ibm; citibank and pfizer;

this is a serious question and churchillian (ward) rhetoric about mcdonalds being behind the invasion of iraq so that it can sell big macs to halliburton workers will not work ............ and no, just because bill gates and warren buffet played bridge together does not mean they conspired to attack iraq so they could sell windows nt and auto insurance to the poor iraqis ............. also just because boeing and starbucks had their headquarters in the same city does not mean that they are in cahoots to sell coffee and planes to the people of ramadi ........... however, the connection between google and ge is truly sinister ........ and what about dr z on tv nowdays? do you think the germans are up to their old tricks again ?

........... have you ever though about getting treatment for your paranoia ?

Re: # 151

Dear Masadi:

{...either refute it or move on, you are under no obligation to either read it or accept it,..}

Of course, when some clown is at the street corner then most people do to check what is going on. This place is not your academia that you can control.

{.... but do not interfere with the right of others to read and debate it....} Do you have any idea what debate means? Most interactors who disagree with you have provide ample evidence contrary to your opinion, and all you have done is called them names. Those who negate your opinion have been abused by you, and only you. You have called names to all those who do not buy in to your theory. Yet, you have the audacity to request debate.

{I hope Chowk Editors are taking note of the miscreants.} Yes certainly they should certainly qualify the writer`s attitude in his/her response. Please do not use chowk regulars to get your cheap propaganda and theories that you are unable to get through your academic peer review. And as Arjun had rightfully called your write up as just rants.

Do you ever respond without any mental anguish?

Respectfully submitted,

#145 & 146 HP sahib, I thank you for bringing sanity to this thread, so far these people have been overly concerned about my personality, my motivations and whether I got a peer review before submitting this article, while others like hamidm, without even reading the article, makes my semester salary an issue to decide the article`s credibility.

When I say ``war has become the way of life of the US elite``, it merely states in lay man`s terms that it has become institutionalized in the political economy, when I talk about the ``freedom they seek``, it merely deconstructs their rhetoric about freedom, they do not fight for the freedom of Joe Iraqi, he does not exist in their mind as a decision making phenomenon, the freedom they seek is for their own motives and as HP mentions, the anti-war movement is an irritant to them in that regard. Regarding ``elite theory`` (as elaborated by hamidm), there is no such thing that I am promoting. What mills stated was based on a very empirical and social-psychological evaluation of the institutional structure of the US and how it evolved, concentration of wealth and power (an ability to get what you want even though others might reject it) resulted in institutional fusing- which is clearly revealed by concentration of economic activity through a few large corporations dominating it, further concentrated through interlocking boards of directors, and interchangeability between the major three institutional structures, resulting in fusion of views and uniformity of social type. It was a magnificent attempt at trying to understand the setup of the US empirically where Pluralism, which described more of a Victorian era capitalism had totally failed to explain phenomenon that were now concentrated in the international arena. It was definitely no conspiracy theory.

Regarding Kulharee and his point about US Aid, AID, the US gives almost the smallest percent (as percent of its GDP) of all developed countries, and it is almost always policy tied, and what the US gets back from these countries in terms of lucrative contracts favorable trade- all well documented, far exceeds any AID. AID shackles the countries more than any development that takes place, much of it, as well as the loans are spent on hiring expensive managers from the West, or contracting from the West. AID is a pseudo privatized effort to manipulate whole countries, countries cannot exist on charity they need viable economic institutions and AID and loans that require structural adjustment almost always interfere with that by gearing their economies to best serve the rich countries. So, yes, poor countries should refuse AID, that would be of greater benefit to them in the long run.

For the others, if you think this article is useless, either refute it or move on, you are under no obligation to either read it or accept it, but do not interfere with the right of others to read and debate it. I hope Chowk Editors are taking note of the miscreants.

salimullah,

.......... you are a very wise man .... mashallah, subhanallah and jazak allah khair !

First of all, we need to treat Jihadism the philosophy, the membership, the recruitment, and other aspects of the curse as a bona fide disease, much like drug addiction.

We need to watch the company that your young people (and some not so young ones) keep. Also, there are tell-tale signs of creeping influence:

Sudden appearance of beard (unless the simpleton is converting to Sikhism or sporting a Saudi style beard to attract pussycats)

Sudden adoption of a hijab, burka, shuttlecock garb, or ninja type outfit (in the case of an otherwise outgoing, social, and happy girl)

Praying more than the minimally necessary times in both frequency and iteration.

Going to the same mosque over and over again - especially if the attractive mosque is quite a distance away while the neighborhood one is just minutes away.

Always going to Afghanistan or NWFP for vacation rather than to Murree, Skardu, or Switzerland.

Waning interest in rock music, DVDs, pornos, or girlie magazines

Refusal to shake hands with hot looking babes

Always asking what type of meat he/she is being offered and whether it`s halal.

Overuse of certain words ending in Lah - Maashallah, Aztaghfirullah, Inshallah, Jizakullah, Alhamdolillah, Nosebillah, Rahmatullah (unless his own name or father`s name ends in Lah as in Najiboolah)

Unusual interest in dangerous toys such as dynamite, AK-47s, swords (unless the youth is converting to Sikhism or becoming a Samurai)

Too much time spent surfing on the web (unless the websie happens to be Chowk)

Tendency to yell obscenities when shown Old Glory or the Union Jack. Very serious if he brings out a lighter for the flag (especially if he doesn`t smoke)

Blaming Amreeka for everything, yet fully willing to go to Princeton, Harvard, or Stanford for higher studies.

Spending too much time with Pathans (unless he happens to be a Pathan himself)

Insisting on pronouncing every Arabic word correctly especially the AIN and GHAIN, QAAF, SUADH, and DUADH sounds (unless he is getting ready for Hajj).

Keeping a poster of UBL without the target sign around the face.

There are numerous other signs. You have to look for them just as you would watch for drug-related signals such as pipes, heating elements, needles, and pushers` phone numbers.

It can be done - all we have to do is say ``NO.``

No matter what the Ostriches say here, the goose of U.S is really cooking and simmering

Thank you AllahMian for UStrich2 & UStrich32....May they never see the light of day again.
Amen

---

WASHINGTON — The United States is losing its fight against terrorism and the Iraq war is the biggest reason why, more than eight of ten American terrorism and national security experts concluded in a poll released yesterday.

One participant in the survey, a former CIA official who described himself as a conservative Republican, said the war in Iraq has provided global terrorist groups with a recruiting bonanza, a valuable training ground and a strategic beachhead at the crossroads of the oil-rich Persian Gulf and Turkey, the traditional land bridge linking the Middle East to Europe.

``The war in Iraq broke our back in the war on terror,`` said the former official, Michael Scheuer, the author of Imperial Hubris, a popular book highly critical of the Bush administration’s anti-terrorism efforts. ``It has made everything more difficult and the threat more existential.``

Scheuer, a former counterterrorism expert with the CIA, is one of more than 100 national security and terrorism analysts who were surveyed this spring for the nonscientific poll by Foreign Policy magazine and the Center for American Progress, a left-leaning research group headed by John Podesta, who served as White House chief of staff in the Clinton administration.

Of the experts queried, 45 identified themselves as liberals, 40 said they were moderates and 31 called themselves conservatives. The pollsters then weighted the responses so that the percentage results reflected one-third participation by each group.

Asked whether the United States is ``winning the war on terror,`` 84 percent said no and 13 percent answered yes. Asked whether the war in Iraq is helping or hurting the global antiterrorism campaign, 87 percent answered that it was undermining those efforts.

The public gives Bush higher marks in the anti-terrorism effort than the policy experts.

In an ABC News/Washington Post poll taken this past Thursday through Sunday, 57 percent of respondents said America’s efforts to fight terrorism are going well; 41 percent said it is not going well. In the same poll, 59 percent said the country is safer from terrorism today than it was before the Sept. 11 attack, while just 33 percent said the country is less safe.

The poll was taken in March and April, before two significant milestones in Iraq: the formation of a new government and the killing by U.S. bombs of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, who was the top al-Qaida agent in Iraq. It surveyed 1,000 adults nationwide and has a margin of error of 3 percentage points.

The Iraq war was last year’s deadliest, according to Yearbook 2006, the annual evaluation of the world’s conflicts by Sweden’s Stockholm International Peace Research Institute.

The peace researchers said the number of wars has hit a new low, but that conflict is changing and free-for-all violence in places such as the Congo defies their definitions.

``To say conflict as a whole is in decline, I could not draw that conclusion,`` said Caroline Holmqvist of the institute.

The newly released Yearbook 2006 draws from data maintained by Sweden’s Uppsala University. It reports the number of active major armed conflicts worldwide stood at 17 in 2005, the lowest point in a steep slide from a high of 31 in 1991.

Information from the Associated Press was included in this story.