On Sexual Liberation, Extremism and Simple Hypocrisy

Re: # 17

Wasif

What a plain-speaking! Bulleh Shah had said ``Sach aakhaan te bhambarh machda``. You have spoken the truth but no body took notice of it because of hypocrisy which is the hall-mark of the Paky society. Sex in fact is the life force which can be regulated and beautified by culture but does not recognize any religion. A well known saying is attributed to a Pathan who was reprimanded for his incest. He had said ``Khochih ham to behn ko behn maanta he kho yih peer-chod jo naheen maanta``.

The Arab culture, Islamic or pre-Islamic, was/is very natural and liberal in the matter of sex, allowing unlimited number of wives and sex-slaves. The Muslims in general and the Paky Mullahs in particular are concerned too much about sex-related religious edicts. The talk of Hadood and Zinna is the burning topic in the parliament and all the media today. I see all kinds of Mullah talking about codification of zinna without ever defining it. I wonder how they treat the marriages contracted by Non-Muslims and the legality of those of their offspring who may have become Muslims afterwards. Are such of the offspring to be treated `Hallali` or `Harrami`? And what about the sex slaves allowed in Islam and the temporary marriages(Not considered lawfull by Sunni aqueeda) contracted by Mutah, etc.? They have verily opened a Pandora`s box. A Rasputinish Mullah is seen on a Paky TV pontifying about sex edicts in such an authoritative style as though God himself is speaking. What a theatre in absurdity is going on in the Paky Media and the Parliament these days!

His philosophy is closer to Iqbals and as you said Dr. and moulana Isrars many lectures on video tapes all over India and Pakistan on Q t.v. channels.BUT can one outlook apply to all countries where muslim inhabit.Some places as weak minorities and in plural societies?

INDIA Hyderabad Based Siasat Urdu Daily Editor in Sex Racket

A Hyderabad based urdu newspaper siasat editor mr amir ali khan and mr mazhar and mr alamdar were involved in a sex racket today as exposed by MIM floor leader in the state assembly in which a young girl was sold to alleged sex racket after being brought in a trap by offering her a scholarship and then taking her to a farmhouse and raping her which are seirous offenses and even forcing her parents not to file a police complaint and threating them with dire consequences.Congress grilled on failure to check cases of kidnap The Majlis Ittehadul Muslimeen on Tuesday took the Congress government to task for its alleged failure to control kidnappings and trafficking of young girls in the State, particularly Hyderabad.
Armed with statistics MIM floor leader Akbaruddin Owaisi said Hyderabad city alone records seven cases of missing youths, including five girls, every day. As many as five children are kidnapped every day on an average. The MIM leader said 1,118 cases of kidnap and missing of children were registered in Hyderabad during 2004 and of this 353 cases were registered within Cyberabad police limits. In 2005, 511 cases of kidnap and missing of children were recorded.
With regard to missing of youths, particularly girls, Mr Owaisi said 3476 such cases were registered during 2005. Of these only 1714 cases were traced. About 80 per cent of all missing persons are young girls who are kidnapped by professional human trafficking gangs. “There is a heavy demand for Andhra girls in other States. The kidnapped girls are sold in brothels outside the State. The CID has reported the existence of as many as 32 such gangs in the State. Andhra Pradesh has now become number one State in the country in terms of missing children,” the MIM leader pointed out.
Answering supplementary during the Question Hour, Home minister K. Jana Reddy said the AP High Court had observed the man missing cases are not cognisable offences and police need not register them. A note in the general register will suffice. However, as a social obligation police are tracing the missing persons.
The Majlis Ittehadul Muslimeen on Tuesday took the Congress government to task for its alleged failure to control kidnappings and trafficking of young girls in the State, particularly Hyderabad.
Armed with statistics MIM floor leader Akbaruddin Owaisi said Hyderabad city alone records seven cases of missing youths, including five girls, every day. As many as five children are kidnapped every day on an average. The MIM leader said 1,118 cases of kidnap and missing of children were registered in Hyderabad during 2004 and of this 353 cases were registered within Cyberabad police limits. In 2005, 511 cases of kidnap and missing of children were recorded.
With regard to missing of youths, particularly girls, Mr Owaisi said 3476 such cases were registered during 2005. Of these only 1714 cases were traced. About 80 per cent of all missing persons are young girls who are kidnapped by professional human trafficking gangs. “There is a heavy demand for Andhra girls in other States. The kidnapped girls are sold in brothels outside the State. The CID has reported the existence of as many as 32 such gangs in the State. Andhra Pradesh has now become number one State in the country in terms of missing children,” the MIM leader pointed out.
Answering supplementary during the Question Hour, Home minister K. Jana Reddy said the AP High Court had observed the man missing cases are not cognisable offences and police need not register them. A note in the general register will suffice. However, as a social obligation police are tracing the missing persons.

Re: # 2
Adam khan, you are my hero. I agree with almost every interact of yours on this site.

Re: # 23
Why this photo? All except Nawaz Sarif have mustachios.
kamath

Chalo.Chalo.Minar.E.Pakistan.Chalo




Ghundoan.Ko.Baap.Banaao!!!!

It seems Ishtiaq Ahmed is not suffice with the population of Pakistan at present level of repression.
Growing at just below 4%, if Asians are liberated, hell would set loose.

And so for the to-be-liberated society and the to-be-scions and well wishers for this anti-perversion idea - refer The Mauri Show just for a glimpse, which interestingly has many a cases of sex liberation. Wife sleeping with younger brother-in-law. Daugther-in-law sleeps with Father-in-law and rears a child in the womb. Sleeping with the sister-in-law.
I remember watching one of its episodes where an American slept with 4 women over a period of time and got some of his sleepers pregnant and some had a child with him; and interestingly the West abhors polygamy. Childish brains.
A woman sleeps with innumerable men and has one child and wants to ascertain who is the father.
Isn`t this stupidity, the thin red line called Family values are compromised.
America is a nation of illegitimates. No matter what, our values shouldn`t be forced to such animal-instinct ladden theories.

Ok, what after liberation? Elton John lifestyle? Huh? Gays? Gay presidents?

Vote.For.Gay.El.Presidanto!!!!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/elsewhere/journalist/story/0,,1688285,00.html

It began when Dr Rashad Khalil, an expert on Islamic law from al-Azhar university in Cairo warned that being completely naked during intercourse invalidates a marriage. His ruling was promptly dismissed by other scholars, including one who argued that ``anything that can bring spouses closer to each other`` should be permitted.

....

^ Is this a new thing?

Re: # 19

asad mian,

you say:``If we know more about Islam we would not feel ashemd in practicing it.
`` ...... does this mean that if we knew more about necrophilia we would not be ashamed of practicing it ?

Excellent atricle. You have very good knwledge about Islam. Most of the people influnced from west have identity cirises. Seeking knowledge is an obligation on every Muslim. If we know more about Islam we would not feel ashemd in practicing it.

Mr. Ishtiq must have some agenda to write such article in Daily Times.

and this is how a learned MAULANA writes on such matters

What a great beneficial difference a Madressa learning makes: Well the man also has an MS, and a doctorate [too trivial & embarrassing for them to add to their name.. acquired just to slap secularoons..to be Maulana is enough, innit?] from British Columbia

I am gay. I was born and lived the first ten years of my life in army cantonements and went to very segregated schools. I am however, still gay. All that segregation around me couldnt do a thing to interest me in women. Actually, like most gay people, while I cannot say if I was born gay or not, I was aware by age 6 or 7 that I was attracted to men. Emotionally and physically. And mind you, I was never molested as a child. No such luck ! So another silly theory about children getting into the ``habit`` of being gay because they were molested, doesnt apply to me. The point is, Mr Kamrani, that I would like you to please shut up about things you and that makrooh looking Dr Israr do not know. There are individuals amongst people who are gay. They just are. There are individuals amongst animals which are gay. Deal with it.

This ridiculous, self righteous article proceeds on the assumption that everyone agrees with the author`s idea of right and wrong based largely upon religion. For example, let me ask....whats wrong with incest between consenting adults ?

Writer saab what is this? a religion quoted VIAGRA.Didn`t mean to sound too frustrated

Why do 60-year-old Saudi men go to Bangladesh and Pakistan to get 14 year old brides? Why don’t young Saudi chicks go there to get some Punjabi action? The whole of Saudi Arabia (and the Persian Gulf) is a big prostitution place with real Islamic pimps dealing in “non-Muslim” hookers. Their clientele is almost exclusively all frustrated old Arab men. I wonder if anyone has studied their behavior to see if sexual oppression in Islamic societies has anything to do with it.

dullabhatti--too true!

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Re: # 8
``this might offend some people but it seems that a lot of what passes of as islam in pakistani society is due to hindu influence....especially the poor treatment of women which no one can deny. ``
This is utter tosh.
Seems to me that Pakistani women are more free than those in Saudi Arabia which has had far less Hindu influence. Don`t you think so?

The dowry system is common to Indo-European traditions.

Women in most places have always been second class citizens, irrespective of religion. Go and read any decent book on evolution among primates to see why this was so.

The second class status is doomed because no woman has to be dependent on a male for basic needs in a modern society.

Re: # 8 by Naqshbandi,

`` ..... both indian and pakistani society has also become more puritanical due to the effects of the British Raj who left their puritanical Victorian ideas of sex with us when they left! ``

Very true.

Naqashbandi, yaar idea of a Lustful Desis is very popular too...ask any female who has walked few steps in desi bazars.:-)

Re: # 6

nasqh.......

``The idea of the `lustful Turk` was a strong one in Europe! ``

hmmm............. i wonder whether sexual slavery of white women has to do anything with it.

basically in traditional islamic societies--now almost vanished--what you did in the comfort of your own house was your own business. the state did not have the right to pry. it was deemed a matter between you and God. and the punishment laws for illegal sex were written and interpreted in such a manner that unless you had a public orgy you wouldn`t be able to be prosecuted...

this might offend some people but it seems that a lot of what passes of as islam in pakistani society is due to hindu influence....especially the poor treatment of women which no one can deny.

thus, for example, young widows are encouraged not to marry again if their husband dies. this is totally unislamic.
many remain unmarried due to dowry--another unislamic practise borrowed from hinduism.
or women not being allowed to choose their own husbands--also not from islam.

of course, i think, both indian and pakistani society has also become more puritanical due to the effects of the British Raj who left their puritanical Victorian ideas of sex with us when they left!

Read the 1001 Nights (Alf Layla wa Layla) -esp. Burton`s translation (just google it) to see a glimpse of traditional islamic society. it definitely wasn`t like paki society of today...

Re: # 6

Was Mr. Burton refering to harems or turkish teenagers going out?

of course, before the 20th century, indeed before the `sexual liberation` of the 1960s, Europeans used to lambast the Islamic world for being too sexually licentious since traditional islam had a healthy and open attitude towards sex. Just read Richard F Burton`s travel tales through the islamic world! The idea of the `lustful Turk` was a strong one in Europe!

Now though, since the 1960s or so, we are lambasted for not being free enough! the reality is that traditional society had a healthy balance towards whilst the West has jumped from puritanism to unrestrained sexual freedom and licentiousness where nothing is taboo anymore.

either way, it seems, Muslims cannot win!

I would suggest that the author of this article read Houellebecq`s Atomised for an insiders view on the long-term effects on unrestrained sexual freedom on a society.

However, that pakistani society is deeply hypocritical when it comes to sexual matters is
undeniable. To say that it leads to extremism is way off target. Historically, Muslim societies have been compared to the modern European countries, sexually restrained but this rise of extremism is a totally modern phenomena which has no parallels in traditional islamic society, being a product of westoxified and heretical readings of the qur`an which originated in najd, arabia in the 19th century only.

traditional islamic society was sexually liberated in that getting married at puberty was the norm for both sexes and therefore sexual frustration wasn`t really a factor since sex is considered sadaqah when done with a legal partner. this is proven by the sheer number of sex manuals written by ulama [yes the ulama and so called mullah which ignorant people despise] for the benefits of the general muslim public also. no less a personality than imam jalal uddin al-suyuti wrote EIGHT love making manuals for the use of couples. imam ghazali emphasised the need for the male to ensure his wife also reached orgasm and not to be selfish and only think of one`s own pleasure. this in his kitab al nikah from the ihya ulum al-din...

so, in short, the writer is WRONG.

This is quite a sad attempt at defining sexual liberty in purely sexual terms. It is about sexual repression, and not about ‘sex’ or promiscuity. Gays for example are persecuted (in places like Egypt and Jordan, they are killed) all over the Islamic world. Sexuality is suppressed in Islamic societies and an expression of it is looked down upon. This is further reinforced by antiquated 6th century tribal laws of keeping women in chains. How come women are the only ones protesting those silly Hadood Laws?

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Ah well another holier than thou article. When exactly are we going to take a look at our own society? One has to be totally blind to not be able see the sexual perversions all around us. How many women in our society can say it out loud that they have been raped? Does the police provide any cover for them? one Mukhtaran mai had to go through shit from every side just because she had the courage to stand up to lodge a complain against the injustice done to her. Qazi Hussain Ahmads daughter said in an interview that what is the use of bringing this issue up again and again? what about that womans honour? Some one should ask miss raheel qazi what she would do if she was gang raped and paraded naked in her village?

Here in Peshawar the whole community of musicians has been uprooted just because these sexually frustrated Mullahs pounce on every thing that is even remotely related to women. Faces of women are being white washed on billboards. Is this a society one should be proud of? So yes sexual frustration is at the root of this bully attitude shown by the Mullah, go to any public university in Pakistan, and observe the morons with the badges of Jamiat on their chest. Their sexual depravity is evident in this defiant stance against simple things like bon fires, concerts and fun fairs.

When the Taliban were incharge in Afghanistan, I debated with many of my friends who were aghast at the rise of ``sexual liberation`` in Peshawar. My advice to them was that if these sexual perversions (e.g. women wearing only dupatas, women driving cars) matter so much to you then why dont you move to Kabul? It usually was the end of discussion. And that my friend is Hypocricy.

i feel segregation causes pervertedness. Look at men in pakistan. They are sex starved and are ready to screw anything that walks. Have you heard of people screwing animals in punjab villages? There is a rape every 4-8 hours in pakistan (maybe more that go unreported because of the shame and fear). You are saying incest doesnt exist in Pakistan. I know A LOT of girls who were sexually molested by their uncles and others in the family but since girls are too ashamed of it, many of these cases go unreported. Oh and about homosexuality dont you know about pathan men who sleep with each other because there is a SERIOUS shortage of women. havent you heard of kids get raped by mullahs in pakistan everyday? Just because nobody talks about it, doesnt mean that pakistan is the land of the pure. Atleast in the US there is enough awareness and freedom to choose what you want. If you dont want to have sex, you wont be forced to unlike pakistan where unsolicited and sexually explicit eve-teasing happens ALL DAY!