16% UK Muslims Stand by London Bombers

There is a very practical reason while some individuals deliberately overlook the sordid deeds of fellow Islamists and carp on forever regarding the “evil west”!

It is called the sense of self-preservation.

They are aware of what happens to those who actually dare to speak out against such “fellows”! For example, how does one spell RUSH-DIE?!

A fatwa is not a good thing in life! Highly non-kosher!

So they select their targets “safely”! What they can get away with, or so they think!

The cowardly carpers are not really good at sticking their necks out when there is a chance that it may get chopped off!

#Article

Those darn commies are the worst serpents!

Those darn “Muslims are exclusive” Islamists are the worst serpents, too!

A combination of the two – is a total disaster! No matter what cloak it wears!

I believe that justice requires that such individuals should be forced to go and LIVE under the conditions of (1) an Islamic Republic, (2) a Communist dictatorship.

Re: # 237
Anil , Zeemax
On, the quest for truth, inspiring the search for knowledge. You may know what these lines are the translation of

We contemplate the ultimate reality
That is in the earth, the sky, the heaven
Let us bring our minds to meditate in
The glory of the divine truth
May truth inspire our reflection.

Re: # 233

Zeemax:

The search for absolute truth has been going on from the day a human raised his / her head toward the sky and look at the Sun rising from the East and setting in the West, and asked how so... The first intellectuals rationalized and came with the answer that the Sun goes around the Earth, now of course hardly any intellectual believes so, instead believe the opposite that the Earth goes around the Sun.

Can you say the truth changed or the knowledge changed?

I would say that the knowledge changed and will continue to grow more and not less. The Universe is so simply big. Newton`s famous quote about he playing with marbles by the ocean is so apt.

Therefore, if someone or some book - doesn`t matter whose it is - puts a finality of human thoughts or knowledge in the name of some super imagination or being.... is bothersome and should be bothersome to all intelligent humans.

The example of the Earth and the Sun illustrates my point. When human knowledge evolved, beliefs evolved and changed.

Can you imagine, a world which was forced to believe that the Sun revolved around the Earth today?

No one could have hold humans back, the Church tried.... burned people alive on-stake. This I believe is the biggest challenge to Islam, its closeness and acceptance as absolute final truth. Especially when you just the abstractness of the single ayat, can unleash wars. Those who believe others must be forbidden, as it is sacntioned by this ayat.

Therefore, I do not believe the truth is important. Perception is more important. Increasing human knowledge is even more important. So that humans can continually improve knowledge and hence the search for ``the truth``, if you insist. This search could not have ended in the 7th century... may be for the nomads of Arabia. Certainly not for tomorrow`s Knowledge society.

Anil

#235 by arjun_m

Arjuna ... Arjuna ... how many times do I have to repeat this ... now listen and listen carefully. Terrorism has nothing to do with being Muslim or not. It is a battle tactic to bring about change, validated over and over. And .... terrorism i.e. blowing up things works!

The first terrorist was no other than T.E. Lawrence who used to blow up railway tracks ... and shoot at the hapless passengers trying to escape the derailed trains, and he won.

Then there was Menachem Begin, who also used to blow up a lot of things so much so that the British put up a reward on his head during their mandate .. but he won too and became Prime Minister ...

Then there were the biggest blower-ups of them all ... the IRA, who really used to blow up a hell of a lot of things. I went to Harrods to pick up my trousers one day in 1983 which I had purchased in the morning and left for hemming, but found out IRA had bombed the ground floor including the Men`s Store so I lost my trousers. They gave me another one but IRA won too ...

So, blowing up things wins!

#231 by anil on July 8, 2006 9:05am PT


Who decides who and what is right


Muslims are right...Didn`t you read zeemax`s posts...he doesn`t think the perps of 9/11 or 7/7 were muslim..to the extent that he thinks terrorism is wrong, he think there is no way muslims can do it..i.e. muslims can do no wrong..


The US attacked Yugoslavia without a declaration of war and a security council resolution...Do you think he`s spinning conspiracy theories about that(other than the ones where the US deliberately let muslims die)?

Why do all his conspiracy theories arrive at the same conslusion: muslims are innocent..it`s a variation of the innocent until proven guilty jurisprudence..it`s the muslims ergo innocent school of jurisprudence..

#228 by arjun_m

So ol`mo predicted the rise of the beatles..cool..

Perhaps he did. After all they did sing `Come Together` ...

#229 by mohar11

The powerful thing in this verse is that it recognises change can only be brought about by a few, not many. This is a startling observation which has proven true over centuries but a surprising thing to say in 7th century given the great empires in existance at the time. It shows a trust in people`s ability, and motivates them. Then it goes on to promise of reward. All in two sentences.

#230 by masanamuthu

Yes I do mean the Jihadis. I think this verse is the primary motivation for them.

#231 by anil

Who decides who and what is right....

Fair question. You see there can only be ONE truth, not more than one. So where does one find that particular truth, or spend a lifetime searching and experimenting? On the other hand, the truths stated in Quran are actually what are the closest to reality including mayhem, murder, vengeance, war, cruelty, and so forth. Then there`s a lot of kindness as well, and concern for the underdog. That is what we see around us everyday. However there`s a vital difference. Islam asks a person to engage in all of the foregoing for the sake of the afterlife, not this one. That creates a certain selflessness in people who will do anything to attain that truth in the path of Allah. They make great revolutionaries.

Thanks for your kind comments. I have said many times on these boards that I am not a religious fanatic ... far from it. My best friends are jews and hindus who are closer to me than any muslim. I do not wear any goggles of bias or prejudice. I know all people are essentially the same and everyone bleeds when cut. But it is also in the nature of humans (as indeed in other species) to partake of the weak, perhaps dating back to the hunter-gatherer cultures. But that`s no way to live. If we are superior to animals in any way, then the big fish must not devour the small fish, otherwise there will be conflict and blood will flow. Period. I`m sure this planet can support the entire human race in an equitable fashion for a further few milleniums to come.

Of-course, notwithstanding Saima Shah`s fears of global warming:)

A liberating veil?
One thing you can safely guess about the burqa: It`s hot at this time of year Beyond that, GTA women who don it may defy your assumptions, writes Heba Aly


The Toronto star: July 8, 2006


Jul. 8, 2006. 03:55 AM
HEBA ALY
STAFF REPORTER


Like other mothers, Halima Mirza takes her children to the museum, on camping trips, and to the beach.

And she does it all wearing a burqa — a garment that has provoked curiosity, dismay and even suspicion as news events have forced conservative Muslim women into the media spotlight.

The head-to-toe covering might be hot in July, but Mirza says it doesn`t stop her from living her life. She has non-Muslim friends, goes out in public and even wears jeans, tank tops and makeup — under the garment.

``I don`t know why people have the idea that we`re oppressed,`` she says in perfect English, the language she uses with her children. ``We do everything ... we have fun.``

The 32-year-old mother of four started wearing the garb in her late teens, in gradual steps: first the hijab, a scarf covering the head. Then the jilbab, a long, loose coat-like garment. Finally, the niqab, a veil covering the face. Now, the combination — often referred to as the burqa when combined with mesh covering the eyes — might as well be part of her body, she says.

``I wouldn`t take my hijab off for anything.``

Why the attachment to a piece of cloth widely viewed as a symbol of the subjugation of women?

``I felt the importance of it, the obligation of it,`` she says. ``A Muslim woman is supposed to cover her hair, her body.

``It`s for your own protection. It`s for your modesty.``

Yet some Muslim women in the West say the burqa is less a symbol of class than an individual spiritual choice.

When Madihah Yarkhan, a 21-year-old psychology graduate from the University of Toronto, decided to cover her face in her last year of high school, her parents tried to talk her out of it. They worried that people would look at her differently.

She had been wearing a headscarf since she was young and wanted to take ``that extra step.``

Yarkhan agrees that it`s not absolutely required, ``but it`s just something I wanted to do, that level I wanted to reach.``

Back at high school in September, she approached her teacher and said, ``Miss, guess who?``

``It`s Madihah,`` her teacher replied.

``How did you know?``

``Of course! I know you by your eyes.``

And so it was. She was the first to wear the veil in her North York school. While it took some getting used to, she says she didn`t get any negative attention. In fact, ``a lot of non-Muslims supported me more than extended family members.``

For Bullock, the University of Toronto lecturer, the decision to wear a headscarf was much more difficult.

An immigrant from Australia, and an atheist at the time, she was ``quite hostile`` to the concept when she first engaged in conversation with Muslims in her master`s program.

They were ``such nice, friendly people`` that she began to question the image she had of them. ``I started to wonder why there were people in the modern world that still believed in God.``

When she got engaged to a Muslim man, her intrigue grew. Despite a temporary return to church, she was drawn to Islam ``like a moth to a flame,`` which scared her tremendously.

She tried to fight it, until ``finally, I couldn`t resist anymore.``

She converted a year and a half after marrying, but felt ``depressed`` that she would have to wear the hijab because she believed it was obligatory.

Wearing it around campus drew some hostility, she says.

``I was a very strong feminist. They just couldn`t fathom it.``

But as time passed, she found links between the hijab and her feminism.

``I explain it as a release from the pressures of the consumer-capitalist society that we live in,`` she says. ``Women`s bodies are put up as commodities, to help sell anything from cars to fridges to cigarettes.

``By covering up, I felt liberated from those pressures. I didn`t have to be thin. I didn`t have to be beautiful. My beauty was now a private thing; it was not for public consumption.``

This transition had all the more impact because she had always had anxieties about her body, leading to ``borderline anorexia`` and low self-esteem, Bullock said.

``It gives me more courage and confidence as a woman,`` says Yarkhan. ``It`s actually the opposite of oppression. I feel liberated when I wear it.``

Yarkhan, Bullock and Mirza recognize that in some places the burqa or hijab are not choices. But they insist that`s not the case in Canada, where the garments take many forms. They say it`s a matter of spirituality.

Emon argues it might be more than that.

``Yarkhan agrees her niqab shapes her identity as a Muslim. But when she`s out having a picnic or driving a car, and especially when she`s ice skating, ``I consider myself just as Canadian as anyone else.``

Re: # 227

Zeemax Sahib:

``3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.``

Who decides who and what is right.... certainly Osama Bin Ladin thinks he is, and who decideds who and what is wrong, certainly Bush things Osama Bin Ladin is wrong and should be forbidden.

Can you not see the problem with such a abstract verse..... can you not?

Anil

BTW, I do appreciate your commitment to your thoughts and cause.

Re: # 229 mohar

.. What`s so ``powerful`` about that verse 3:104?.....

I think `zee` implies the verse applies to `jihadis`.. But i believe it also equally applies to the `gang of Bush`.. It`d be nice to watch the battle though.. :-)

Re: # 227 zee

What`s so ``powerful`` about that verse 3:104?.....

#227 by zeemax on July 8, 2006 0:36am PT


3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people


So ol`mo predicted the rise of the beatles..cool..

#212 by mohar11

But so far - we don`t see no utopia yet.... the alternate system ain`t working.... 7th-century texts don`t make 21st-century nations....

Well .. this 7th century text seems pretty powerful stuff to me ...

3:104 Let there arise out of you a band of people inviting to all that is good, enjoining what is right, and forbidding what is wrong: They are the ones to attain felicity.

This, is why a re-establishment of order is needed.


An Israeli army bulldozer razes Palestinian greenhouses Thursday as part of the military operation in northern Gaza.


Are Palestenian greenhouses a threat to Israel? Probably not but Palestenians are. Therefore a genocide continues ...

#220 by dullabhatti
...in year 1999 who was crying tears of blood because his beloved country was taken hostage by a tin pot dictator ...

Yes. And nothing has changed since then, has it? Things have become progressively worse. That is what I mean by a re-establishment of the order having become an indispensible necessity for the sustenance of the common Abdul and others like him. This re-establishing cannot be done by earlier revolutionary forces which have since been defeated and have lost credibility. It can however be done by these new forces which have all the necessary ingredients. Nothing fanatical about that. I`m not a fanatic by a mile.

As for Mr. Tanweer, whether he is or is not in that picture has no bearing on whether picture no 3 is the same person as 1 & 2. You are avoiding the question which I posed as did everyone else. Noone has so far come out and said that it is the same person, but merely obfuscating and obscuring the issue through circular reasoning and false dilemmas.