Iqbal, Ghalib, Amir Khusraw: Three Masters, Three Poems
Asif Naqshbandi July 12, 2006
#54 Posted by marryam on April 6, 2008 5:58:05 pm
u have great collection of articles, n i loved ur novels collection
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#52 Posted by Inquirer on August 2, 2006 6:43:49 am
Re: # 48, Naqshbandi:
An interesting naat. Could you please post the romanized version of the naat? It is much more enjoyable to read in Urdu, even if one does not understand all words. You have already provided the translation, so it would not be a problem.
An interesting naat. Could you please post the romanized version of the naat? It is much more enjoyable to read in Urdu, even if one does not understand all words. You have already provided the translation, so it would not be a problem.
#51 Posted by Inquirer on August 2, 2006 6:19:34 am
Re: # 47:
Lucky are those that go to gallows from ``kuu-e-yaar.`` Most just drift till ``soo-e-daar`` claims them.
Lucky are those that go to gallows from ``kuu-e-yaar.`` Most just drift till ``soo-e-daar`` claims them.
#50 Posted by Inquirer on August 2, 2006 6:09:36 am
Re: # 46:
Ph. D. (Bio-engineeing), eh?
Today`s woman should hear Ajiz Mian and learn from Meera!
Ph. D. (Bio-engineeing), eh?
Today`s woman should hear Ajiz Mian and learn from Meera!
#49 Posted by Inquirer on August 2, 2006 6:03:26 am
Re: # 45,echoboom:
Sorry, the heat of the day shutdown the activities sooner than usual so I did not have access to the computer. Hence, the delay.
``Simply means that the path we have taken ( the way we think) , vantage point, it would inshallah help us welcome that new-day in the world.``
****Oh, God:
Hamne maanaa ke tagaaful na karoge lekin,
Khaak ho jaayengey magar tum ko khabar hone tak.****
I am, however, humbled by your praise. I admire the poetic Muslim style.
Sorry, the heat of the day shutdown the activities sooner than usual so I did not have access to the computer. Hence, the delay.
``Simply means that the path we have taken ( the way we think) , vantage point, it would inshallah help us welcome that new-day in the world.``
****Oh, God:
Hamne maanaa ke tagaaful na karoge lekin,
Khaak ho jaayengey magar tum ko khabar hone tak.****
I am, however, humbled by your praise. I admire the poetic Muslim style.
#48 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 1, 2006 3:12:40 pm
For Inquirer/Echoboom, others. I`ve found the a translation of the lengthy naat of which I spoke in my last post by Mohsin Kakorawi. Look at the imagery:
Madih khair al-Mursalin
January 28th, 2006
Selections from the Exordium (tashbîb)
From the direction of Benares went a cloud toward Mathura;
The breeze brings Ganges water on the shoulders of lightning.
The cypress-statured residents of Gokal perform ablutions right [in their] home;
For to go to bathe in the River Jumna is a prolonged hope.
News has just reached the great forest that
The wind-borne clouds are proceeding to the [Hindu] pilgrimage sites.
The dense black clouds extend far into the distance;
The idols hold sway not only in Hind [India] but indeed the whole world.
The invasion of black clouds proceeds towards the qibla:
Perhaps Lât and Hubal may yet again lay siege to the Ka’ba.
In the entire day, not even for a couple hours did it [the rain] cease;
For fifteen days there has been a joyful abundance of water
Neither the moon is visible at night nor the sun during the day;
This tumultous darkness is the influence of Saturn.
The density of the dark clouds is such that it renders the candle invisible,
Even though the moth searches for it with a torch.
The pupil of the eye was concealed in the veil of darkness;
The eye of the world-seeing sun contains symptoms of cataract.
The smoke of the fire of the rose reached the ceiling of the spheres;
Lamp-blacked congealed on the ceiling of the house of the sun!
So blinding is the darkness that the cloud itself cannot move;
Thunder says to lightning, “Better bring a torch!”
Selections from the Panegyric (madh)
The saplings of anthropomorphism are verdant in the garden of attributelessness
Of which the prophets are the branches and the gnostics are the buds.
The beautiful rose of the Arabian, Medinan, Prophet
Adorns the skirt of eternity and ornaments the turban of pre-eternity.
No one resembles him, equals him, or is like him;
Neither is there anyone who is similar, comparable or who can replace him
He is the moon of the highest zenith, the fruit of the palm-tree of the two worlds;
The pearl of the ocean of Oneness, the lotus of the fountain of multiplicity;
The light of the sun of monotheism, the new moon of the zenith of honor;
The flame of the candle of creation, the lamp of the assembly of messengership.
The refuge of the Trusted Spirit (Gabriel), the adorner of the heavenly thrones sublime;
The protector of the firm religion, the abrogator of creeds and nations.
He is the high-ranking King in the seven climes of dominion;
The messenger sent for the four directions of guidance.
I wish to write many befitting hemistiches.
If only the pen would not become ecstatic and fly off from my hand!
He was the chose selection of the manuscript of Oneness on the day of pre-eternity.
There is neither a second to Ahmad nor a predecessor to the One.
How [beautifully] the cloud prostrates toward the Ka’ba, the qibla
The cloud prostrates towards Yathrib and Bathâ
Having abondoned the tavern of India and the idol house of Braj,
Today the cloud has spread its prayer rug in the Ka’ba.
Having put on blinkers on the grey horse of the heavens,
The black cloud has brought it for the Arabian rider.
In the ocean of contigency, the Arabian messenger is a unique pearl;
The cloud is a special mercy of the Lord Almighty.
The Ka’ba of the eyebrow of the Prophet is the qibla for the people of insight,
The black cloud is the hair surronding the head of the qibla [Muhammad]
Lightning weeps out of envy of the flame of that face,
The cloud has placed a shawl on the face of lightning.
Widespread is the fame of the life-bestowing lips of the Prophet,
Listen a moment to what Jesus says to the cloud:
“Look with the eye of justice at his [the Prophet’s] noble teeth,
He is your unique pearl even though you are a unique cloud.”
The thread of angels was bound around the holy pearl;
On the night of the mi’râj the cloud was at the exalted divine throne.
In ascending and descending, Burâq was equal to lightning
The cloud was the verdant meadow of the world above.
Selections from the Supplication (du’â)
Your rank is the highest and the most excellent;
This is the essence of my detailed faith.
It is my wish that none of my poetry, be it qit’a, or qasîda, or ghazal,
Should be devoid of your praise.
In religion and the world I should have no other refuge;
Only on you do I depend, on your strength, on your power.
May [you be] my fibre of hope and palm tree, fresh and green
Whose every branch has flowers, and whose every flower contains a fruit.
My desire is that I continue to think of you till the moment of death,
That I see your form when death comes.
With the name of Muhammad on the tongue and the secret of “without mîm” in the heart,
On my lips be the blessing on the Prophet and in the heart the glorification of God.
May the angel of death, ‘Azrâ’îl, lovingly say to my soul:
“My dear, if you are coming along to Medina then let’s go.”
At the moment of death let this be the sign of your intercession:
“Don’t worry about the day of resurrection, we’ll take care of it tomorrow.”
The memory of the mirror-like face may confound me,
May I see the mirror palace in the corner of my grave.
May the two scribe angels, my hosts, say: “Feel at home [here];
Don’t worry about a thing, don’t be anxious!”
May I remember your resplendent face after annihilation (fanâ)
So that it may come as my companion on the road of non-existence as a (guiding) torch.
May my sins, heavy and light, be erased,
When my deeds, righteous and noble, come to the scales.
May [I] your panegyrist be with you in the ranks of resurrection,
Holding this intoxicating qasîda and ghazal.
When Gabriel signals and says “Yes, begin in the name of God,
‘From the direction of Benares went a cloud towards Mathura’”
Muhsin Kakorawi Madîh khair al-mursalîn (Eulogy for the best of messengers)
[Ali S. Asani & Kamal Abdel-Malek, Celebrating Muhammad: Images of the Prophet in Popular Muslim Poetry]
Madih khair al-Mursalin
January 28th, 2006
Selections from the Exordium (tashbîb)
From the direction of Benares went a cloud toward Mathura;
The breeze brings Ganges water on the shoulders of lightning.
The cypress-statured residents of Gokal perform ablutions right [in their] home;
For to go to bathe in the River Jumna is a prolonged hope.
News has just reached the great forest that
The wind-borne clouds are proceeding to the [Hindu] pilgrimage sites.
The dense black clouds extend far into the distance;
The idols hold sway not only in Hind [India] but indeed the whole world.
The invasion of black clouds proceeds towards the qibla:
Perhaps Lât and Hubal may yet again lay siege to the Ka’ba.
In the entire day, not even for a couple hours did it [the rain] cease;
For fifteen days there has been a joyful abundance of water
Neither the moon is visible at night nor the sun during the day;
This tumultous darkness is the influence of Saturn.
The density of the dark clouds is such that it renders the candle invisible,
Even though the moth searches for it with a torch.
The pupil of the eye was concealed in the veil of darkness;
The eye of the world-seeing sun contains symptoms of cataract.
The smoke of the fire of the rose reached the ceiling of the spheres;
Lamp-blacked congealed on the ceiling of the house of the sun!
So blinding is the darkness that the cloud itself cannot move;
Thunder says to lightning, “Better bring a torch!”
Selections from the Panegyric (madh)
The saplings of anthropomorphism are verdant in the garden of attributelessness
Of which the prophets are the branches and the gnostics are the buds.
The beautiful rose of the Arabian, Medinan, Prophet
Adorns the skirt of eternity and ornaments the turban of pre-eternity.
No one resembles him, equals him, or is like him;
Neither is there anyone who is similar, comparable or who can replace him
He is the moon of the highest zenith, the fruit of the palm-tree of the two worlds;
The pearl of the ocean of Oneness, the lotus of the fountain of multiplicity;
The light of the sun of monotheism, the new moon of the zenith of honor;
The flame of the candle of creation, the lamp of the assembly of messengership.
The refuge of the Trusted Spirit (Gabriel), the adorner of the heavenly thrones sublime;
The protector of the firm religion, the abrogator of creeds and nations.
He is the high-ranking King in the seven climes of dominion;
The messenger sent for the four directions of guidance.
I wish to write many befitting hemistiches.
If only the pen would not become ecstatic and fly off from my hand!
He was the chose selection of the manuscript of Oneness on the day of pre-eternity.
There is neither a second to Ahmad nor a predecessor to the One.
How [beautifully] the cloud prostrates toward the Ka’ba, the qibla
The cloud prostrates towards Yathrib and Bathâ
Having abondoned the tavern of India and the idol house of Braj,
Today the cloud has spread its prayer rug in the Ka’ba.
Having put on blinkers on the grey horse of the heavens,
The black cloud has brought it for the Arabian rider.
In the ocean of contigency, the Arabian messenger is a unique pearl;
The cloud is a special mercy of the Lord Almighty.
The Ka’ba of the eyebrow of the Prophet is the qibla for the people of insight,
The black cloud is the hair surronding the head of the qibla [Muhammad]
Lightning weeps out of envy of the flame of that face,
The cloud has placed a shawl on the face of lightning.
Widespread is the fame of the life-bestowing lips of the Prophet,
Listen a moment to what Jesus says to the cloud:
“Look with the eye of justice at his [the Prophet’s] noble teeth,
He is your unique pearl even though you are a unique cloud.”
The thread of angels was bound around the holy pearl;
On the night of the mi’râj the cloud was at the exalted divine throne.
In ascending and descending, Burâq was equal to lightning
The cloud was the verdant meadow of the world above.
Selections from the Supplication (du’â)
Your rank is the highest and the most excellent;
This is the essence of my detailed faith.
It is my wish that none of my poetry, be it qit’a, or qasîda, or ghazal,
Should be devoid of your praise.
In religion and the world I should have no other refuge;
Only on you do I depend, on your strength, on your power.
May [you be] my fibre of hope and palm tree, fresh and green
Whose every branch has flowers, and whose every flower contains a fruit.
My desire is that I continue to think of you till the moment of death,
That I see your form when death comes.
With the name of Muhammad on the tongue and the secret of “without mîm” in the heart,
On my lips be the blessing on the Prophet and in the heart the glorification of God.
May the angel of death, ‘Azrâ’îl, lovingly say to my soul:
“My dear, if you are coming along to Medina then let’s go.”
At the moment of death let this be the sign of your intercession:
“Don’t worry about the day of resurrection, we’ll take care of it tomorrow.”
The memory of the mirror-like face may confound me,
May I see the mirror palace in the corner of my grave.
May the two scribe angels, my hosts, say: “Feel at home [here];
Don’t worry about a thing, don’t be anxious!”
May I remember your resplendent face after annihilation (fanâ)
So that it may come as my companion on the road of non-existence as a (guiding) torch.
May my sins, heavy and light, be erased,
When my deeds, righteous and noble, come to the scales.
May [I] your panegyrist be with you in the ranks of resurrection,
Holding this intoxicating qasîda and ghazal.
When Gabriel signals and says “Yes, begin in the name of God,
‘From the direction of Benares went a cloud towards Mathura’”
Muhsin Kakorawi Madîh khair al-mursalîn (Eulogy for the best of messengers)
[Ali S. Asani & Kamal Abdel-Malek, Celebrating Muhammad: Images of the Prophet in Popular Muslim Poetry]
#47 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 1, 2006 3:06:25 pm
And of Faiz, Inquirer sahib:
Maqaam, Faiz, raah mein koii jachaa hii nahin
Jo kuu-e-yaar se niklay tau soo-e-daar chalay!
kuu = street
soo-e-daar = towards the gallows
***
The use of Hindi/Hindi imagery is common in Islamic naatiyya poetry too. A famous Muslim
naat-khaan (poet) wrote an entire nazm about the Miraj of the Prophet in terms which any educated Hindu would recognise. His name was Mohsin Kakoravi. The naat begins, `Mathura se...`` He read the naat in front of Ala Hazrat who praised it.
Maqaam, Faiz, raah mein koii jachaa hii nahin
Jo kuu-e-yaar se niklay tau soo-e-daar chalay!
kuu = street
soo-e-daar = towards the gallows
***
The use of Hindi/Hindi imagery is common in Islamic naatiyya poetry too. A famous Muslim
naat-khaan (poet) wrote an entire nazm about the Miraj of the Prophet in terms which any educated Hindu would recognise. His name was Mohsin Kakoravi. The naat begins, `Mathura se...`` He read the naat in front of Ala Hazrat who praised it.
#46 Posted by Naqshbandi on August 1, 2006 3:01:45 pm
Talking of bhajans:
Aao re sakhiyo, mil chausar khailain apnay piya kay sang
Haar gaye to piya humaara, jeetay tau pii kay sang!
--attributed to Mirabai. Sang by Aziz Mian.
Aao re sakhiyo, mil chausar khailain apnay piya kay sang
Haar gaye to piya humaara, jeetay tau pii kay sang!
--attributed to Mirabai. Sang by Aziz Mian.
#45 Posted by echoboom on August 1, 2006 1:09:56 pm
Oh thanks a lot.
I had misheard a word or two, and they were not typos.
The couplet simply is including & acknowledging you in the pursuit of Peace.
Simply means that the path we have taken ( the way we think) , vantage point, it would inshallah help us welcome that new-day in the world.
That couplet is by Faiz.
We muslims have a very ``bad`` habit of talking in poetry all the time. We convey by them a lot easier & a lot gets said. Their is an ``understanding`` among those of us who talk like this. Iyt also immediately conveys to the other person the stuff read covered by , and hence saves a lot of time to explain ``where one stands`` or ``where one is coming from``.
I had misheard a word or two, and they were not typos.
The couplet simply is including & acknowledging you in the pursuit of Peace.
Simply means that the path we have taken ( the way we think) , vantage point, it would inshallah help us welcome that new-day in the world.
That couplet is by Faiz.
We muslims have a very ``bad`` habit of talking in poetry all the time. We convey by them a lot easier & a lot gets said. Their is an ``understanding`` among those of us who talk like this. Iyt also immediately conveys to the other person the stuff read covered by , and hence saves a lot of time to explain ``where one stands`` or ``where one is coming from``.
#44 Posted by Inquirer on August 1, 2006 12:55:37 pm
Re: # 43:
Thanks for laboring on providing the lyrics.
There are a couple of things that need to be noted and since I am a Hindu, I can provide some clarifications.
PaaoN paDroon toray Shyaam, Brij meiN laut chalo, laut chalo
PaaoN paDroon, Brij meiN laut chalo
PaaoN...
Sooni kadam kee thandee chhanyyaN, khojay dhuN bansee kee
Byaakul ho kay, Brij na dubo deiN, lahraiN Jamnaa jee kee
Laut chalo...
[Kadam tree is associated with Krishna.]
Doodh dahee sey bharee matakiaa, toDray kaun Muraree?
AnsooaN jal sey bharay gagariyaa, panghat pey panihaaree
PaaoN ....
Bilakh rahee hai mata Yashodaa, Nand jee dukhh mein khoay
Kuchh to soch aray nirmohee! Brij kaa kan kan roay.
[Yashoda and Nanda were adaptive parents of Krishna.]
Laut chalo,
Laut chalo
PaaoN
I hope you do not mind my presentation of UP`s Urdu pronunciations.
Now, for your #39:
``JahaaN pey hUm, tuum kharRay haiN donoaN
sbhha kop raushan ufaque, yaheeN hai. ``
**** Is the second line to be read as follows?
Subah kaa raushan ufaque yaheeN hai.
Thus, the couplet means: Where both of us stand, there is the dawn`s bright horizon. Is it correct?
Now, how does this connect with your introduction?
Please excuse my simple-mindedness, I do like to form a mental picture of understanding!!****
Thanks for laboring on providing the lyrics.
There are a couple of things that need to be noted and since I am a Hindu, I can provide some clarifications.
PaaoN paDroon toray Shyaam, Brij meiN laut chalo, laut chalo
PaaoN paDroon, Brij meiN laut chalo
PaaoN...
Sooni kadam kee thandee chhanyyaN, khojay dhuN bansee kee
Byaakul ho kay, Brij na dubo deiN, lahraiN Jamnaa jee kee
Laut chalo...
[Kadam tree is associated with Krishna.]
Doodh dahee sey bharee matakiaa, toDray kaun Muraree?
AnsooaN jal sey bharay gagariyaa, panghat pey panihaaree
PaaoN ....
Bilakh rahee hai mata Yashodaa, Nand jee dukhh mein khoay
Kuchh to soch aray nirmohee! Brij kaa kan kan roay.
[Yashoda and Nanda were adaptive parents of Krishna.]
Laut chalo,
Laut chalo
PaaoN
I hope you do not mind my presentation of UP`s Urdu pronunciations.
Now, for your #39:
``JahaaN pey hUm, tuum kharRay haiN donoaN
sbhha kop raushan ufaque, yaheeN hai. ``
**** Is the second line to be read as follows?
Subah kaa raushan ufaque yaheeN hai.
Thus, the couplet means: Where both of us stand, there is the dawn`s bright horizon. Is it correct?
Now, how does this connect with your introduction?
Please excuse my simple-mindedness, I do like to form a mental picture of understanding!!****
#43 Posted by echoboom on August 1, 2006 11:11:50 am
Fixed the lyrics:
PaooN paroon toray shyaam
brij meiN laut chalo
Laut chalo
PaooN paroon
brij meiN laut chalo
PaooN...
sooni kudum kee thandee chhayyaN
khojay dhuuN bunsee kee
biyakul ho kay brij naa duboa deiN
lehraiN jumnaa jee kee
Laut chalo...
doodh dahee sey
bharee matakiaa
torRay kaun muraree
ansooaN jal sey bharay gagaryaa
panghat pey panihaaree
PaooN ....
biluk rahee hai mata yashodhaa
nathlee dukhh mein khoyay
kuchh toa soach aray nirmohee!
brij kaa kun kun royay.
Laut chalo,
Laut chalo
PaooN
PaooN paroon toray shyaam
brij meiN laut chalo
Laut chalo
PaooN paroon
brij meiN laut chalo
PaooN...
sooni kudum kee thandee chhayyaN
khojay dhuuN bunsee kee
biyakul ho kay brij naa duboa deiN
lehraiN jumnaa jee kee
Laut chalo...
doodh dahee sey
bharee matakiaa
torRay kaun muraree
ansooaN jal sey bharay gagaryaa
panghat pey panihaaree
PaooN ....
biluk rahee hai mata yashodhaa
nathlee dukhh mein khoyay
kuchh toa soach aray nirmohee!
brij kaa kun kun royay.
Laut chalo,
Laut chalo
PaooN
#42 Posted by echoboom on August 1, 2006 11:02:15 am
a slight correction:
It is the bright horizon( ufaq) from where (morning will dawn).
It is the bright horizon( ufaq) from where (morning will dawn).
#41 Posted by echoboom on August 1, 2006 10:40:33 am
Subhha ka raushan...
The bright Dawn ( oo peace & happiness) is right here, from this vantage point.
Let me put it in ``secular`` terms [ this is I call it a little ``lowering`` of the spirit of it-- a shair & joke explained IS ``heart-wrenching``--you agree?]
Our mehboob ( beloved Shyaam/ Mehdi--the saviour--Prince of peace has abandoned us). This world (brij) is in turmoil. It is time for him to return & bring back the good days.
PaooN paroon
brij meiN laut chalo
sooni kudum kee thandee chhayyaN
khojay haiN dhuuN bunsee kee
biyakul ho kay brij naa duboa deiN
lehraiN jumnaa jee kee
doodh dahee sey
bhari matakiaa
toray kaun muraree
ansooaN jal sey bharay gagaryaa
panghat pey dukhyaaree
biluk rahee hai mata yashodhaa
nathnee dukhh khoyay
kuchh toa soach ara nirmohee
brij kaa kun kun royay.
The bright Dawn ( oo peace & happiness) is right here, from this vantage point.
Let me put it in ``secular`` terms [ this is I call it a little ``lowering`` of the spirit of it-- a shair & joke explained IS ``heart-wrenching``--you agree?]
Our mehboob ( beloved Shyaam/ Mehdi--the saviour--Prince of peace has abandoned us). This world (brij) is in turmoil. It is time for him to return & bring back the good days.
PaooN paroon
brij meiN laut chalo
sooni kudum kee thandee chhayyaN
khojay haiN dhuuN bunsee kee
biyakul ho kay brij naa duboa deiN
lehraiN jumnaa jee kee
doodh dahee sey
bhari matakiaa
toray kaun muraree
ansooaN jal sey bharay gagaryaa
panghat pey dukhyaaree
biluk rahee hai mata yashodhaa
nathnee dukhh khoyay
kuchh toa soach ara nirmohee
brij kaa kun kun royay.
#40 Posted by Inquirer on August 1, 2006 10:14:19 am
Re: # 39, echoboom:
I am struck and scared! You may be the friend that I wanted!! I hope you are far away, yet greed wishes otherwise!!!
I do not know, of what the tears they were, but boy, they did trickle. Sitting here, I was hoping others would not come in and see my state infront of the computer!!! You must have a wonderul selection of music reflecting your personality.
Now, how did you know???!!!
My Urdu is not good enough, would you kindly explain the second line of the couplet AND the preceding paragraph. Please.
PS.
Regarding the bhajan, I thanked, Rafi - wonderful as he was - sang this not Gita/Jotika Roy. That would be much too much to take!! You probably know the context of the bhajan otherwise you would not have mentioned it.
I am struck and scared! You may be the friend that I wanted!! I hope you are far away, yet greed wishes otherwise!!!
I do not know, of what the tears they were, but boy, they did trickle. Sitting here, I was hoping others would not come in and see my state infront of the computer!!! You must have a wonderul selection of music reflecting your personality.
Now, how did you know???!!!
My Urdu is not good enough, would you kindly explain the second line of the couplet AND the preceding paragraph. Please.
PS.
Regarding the bhajan, I thanked, Rafi - wonderful as he was - sang this not Gita/Jotika Roy. That would be much too much to take!! You probably know the context of the bhajan otherwise you would not have mentioned it.
#39 Posted by echoboom on August 1, 2006 8:52:37 am
An Inquirer is ALWAYS a religious person, whereas knowledgeable person is not necessarily religious.
eg:
Most technicians, engineers, & craftsmen might have studied science but they are not scientisits. A researchers into pure abstract science or maths IS a religious person.
To be religious is an attitude a temprament a personality. Most poets[ not the entertaing variety], ARE religious, no matter what outward package they exhibit. It is also quite possible for some of them becoming lapsed & become sell-outs.
A religious person, invariably a tortured soul & usualy does pay a heavy price for it.
All those who risk life limb and comfort for the sake of others,.. meaning fighting for the weak & persecuted & downtrodden ..are in my book RELIGIOUS.
without knowing a lot about you I believe are a deeply religious person; & so would I like tro fancy myself.
Now here is a great religious experience. To me in this all the ``hindu`` metaphors take the form of ``Hezbollah`` metaphors & I am pleading for that Peace-of-Victory (my Shyaam).
Listen & tears would trickle--of religious emotions.
JahaaN pey hUm, tuum kharRay haiN donoaN
sbhha kop raushan ufaque, yaheeN hai.
PaooN parRooN
eg:
Most technicians, engineers, & craftsmen might have studied science but they are not scientisits. A researchers into pure abstract science or maths IS a religious person.
To be religious is an attitude a temprament a personality. Most poets[ not the entertaing variety], ARE religious, no matter what outward package they exhibit. It is also quite possible for some of them becoming lapsed & become sell-outs.
A religious person, invariably a tortured soul & usualy does pay a heavy price for it.
All those who risk life limb and comfort for the sake of others,.. meaning fighting for the weak & persecuted & downtrodden ..are in my book RELIGIOUS.
without knowing a lot about you I believe are a deeply religious person; & so would I like tro fancy myself.
Now here is a great religious experience. To me in this all the ``hindu`` metaphors take the form of ``Hezbollah`` metaphors & I am pleading for that Peace-of-Victory (my Shyaam).
Listen & tears would trickle--of religious emotions.
JahaaN pey hUm, tuum kharRay haiN donoaN
sbhha kop raushan ufaque, yaheeN hai.
PaooN parRooN
#38 Posted by Inquirer on August 1, 2006 5:23:36 am
Re: # 37, echoboom:
``the religiosity-types.[not to be mistaken for religious kind--like Ghalib himself]``
Please elaborate.
``the religiosity-types.[not to be mistaken for religious kind--like Ghalib himself]``
Please elaborate.
#37 Posted by echoboom on July 30, 2006 5:38:24 pm
Naqshbandi sahib:
Zunnaar is the farsi word for the hindi jenou, which the brahmins tie over their under-vest. Some prayers are uttered while doing this. Zoroastrians also perform this ritual/rite when changing clothes or after a shower.
Ghalib is saying ( simple paraphrase here) that there is no substance/pith in the rituals like tasbeeh pharnaa or zuunnar baandhnaa. Notice that he has used the word ``Phanda`` for both...meaning both are snares/traps which lead a lot of people to confuse that with piety/learning.
Such acts are nothing but an indication of a total dedication & devotion of the religiosity-types.[not to be mistaken for religious kind--like Ghalib himself]
Zunnaar is the farsi word for the hindi jenou, which the brahmins tie over their under-vest. Some prayers are uttered while doing this. Zoroastrians also perform this ritual/rite when changing clothes or after a shower.
Ghalib is saying ( simple paraphrase here) that there is no substance/pith in the rituals like tasbeeh pharnaa or zuunnar baandhnaa. Notice that he has used the word ``Phanda`` for both...meaning both are snares/traps which lead a lot of people to confuse that with piety/learning.
Such acts are nothing but an indication of a total dedication & devotion of the religiosity-types.[not to be mistaken for religious kind--like Ghalib himself]
#36 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 30, 2006 4:36:54 am
Thanks for the ghazal...it is one I`ve not heard before. I will look it up in the Divan e Ghalib to get a feel for it and get back to you later today...!!
The shai`r you quoted appears to be a sarcastic quip at the expense of hypocritical religious
scholars of Hindu , Christian (zunnar) and Muslim faiths--typical Ghalib. They find it difficult to be
faithful says Ghalib, and that is their real test--not the counting of prayer beads...
The shai`r you quoted appears to be a sarcastic quip at the expense of hypocritical religious
scholars of Hindu , Christian (zunnar) and Muslim faiths--typical Ghalib. They find it difficult to be
faithful says Ghalib, and that is their real test--not the counting of prayer beads...
#35 Posted by echoboom on July 29, 2006 7:22:53 pm
This is a great ghazal & sung as great by Mohd. Rafi. An extremely rare find.
Unfortunately the first half is real bad. Please play it from the middle.
Quad O gaisoo meiN Qais-O kohkan kee aazmaish hai.
A gem for you
and let us discuss this shair from it:
`` NaheeN kuchh subhha-O Zunnar kay phandai meiN geeraee
vafadaari meiN shaikh-O Brhaman kee aazmaish hai.``
Unfortunately the first half is real bad. Please play it from the middle.
Quad O gaisoo meiN Qais-O kohkan kee aazmaish hai.
A gem for you
and let us discuss this shair from it:
`` NaheeN kuchh subhha-O Zunnar kay phandai meiN geeraee
vafadaari meiN shaikh-O Brhaman kee aazmaish hai.``
#34 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 29, 2006 3:48:37 pm
I guess no one wants to discuss Iqbal or Ghalib anymore...
#33 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 21, 2006 2:52:42 pm
Re: # 10
This is Mawlana Rumi`s masterpiece about Man`s spiritual evolution and NOT an allusion to Darwinian evolution which some modernist Muslims have interpreted it as!!
This is Mawlana Rumi`s masterpiece about Man`s spiritual evolution and NOT an allusion to Darwinian evolution which some modernist Muslims have interpreted it as!!
#32 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 21, 2006 2:50:12 pm
Re: Iqbal--I realise my small selection does not do him justice at all. I will insha Allah write a whole article for Chowk just about Iqbal and his poetry, perhaps translating his masterpiece, `Masjid i Qurtuba` (The Mosque of Cordoba). What say you? Or we could analyse it in this thread after we`ve finished with Ghalib!
#31 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 21, 2006 2:47:09 pm
jāñ kyūñ nikalne lagtī hai tan se dam-e samāʿ
gar vuh ṣadā samāʾī hai chang-o-rabāb meñ
jāñ = soul, spirit.
tan= body
dam-e samāʿ = during the sama`. there is also word play here by Ghalib since `dam` has two meanings--one to do with time (during) and the other is `breath`. This is a play on the first part of the line about the soul coming out (jaan nikalna) i.e. death.
The word samāʿ has caused Orientalists and others many difficulties. This is because they usually translate it, incorrectly, as `music`. Actually, the `sama` means `listening to singing without musical accompaniment, hence my use of the word `audition`. This is its technical meaning in Sufism. It can also, in modern parlance, mean a qawwali performance.
chang o rabab = lyre and harp (two stringed musical instruments).
ṣadā = cry, shout.
`vuh sada` = that cry. The question arises, `Which cry` is being referred to? It is the primordial cry of `Bala` (Yes!) to the Qur`anic question of ``Alastu bi Rabbikum``? (``Am I not your Lord``) which all humans gave to God before the creation of the World on the Day of the Primordial Covenant (Yawm al Mithaaq). Such an explanation has also been given by Imam Ghazali to explain why it is that a beautiful sounds can have such an effect on the human heart. Thus Ghalib is saying that when, during the qawwal performance, when the listener hears the sounds of the harp and lyre it reminds him of the Promise to God made on that Day and thus he has such a spiritual experience whilst hearing it. Such that it feels like his soul wishes to leave his body (and hence join its Creator)...
gar vuh ṣadā samāʾī hai chang-o-rabāb meñ
jāñ = soul, spirit.
tan= body
dam-e samāʿ = during the sama`. there is also word play here by Ghalib since `dam` has two meanings--one to do with time (during) and the other is `breath`. This is a play on the first part of the line about the soul coming out (jaan nikalna) i.e. death.
The word samāʿ has caused Orientalists and others many difficulties. This is because they usually translate it, incorrectly, as `music`. Actually, the `sama` means `listening to singing without musical accompaniment, hence my use of the word `audition`. This is its technical meaning in Sufism. It can also, in modern parlance, mean a qawwali performance.
chang o rabab = lyre and harp (two stringed musical instruments).
ṣadā = cry, shout.
`vuh sada` = that cry. The question arises, `Which cry` is being referred to? It is the primordial cry of `Bala` (Yes!) to the Qur`anic question of ``Alastu bi Rabbikum``? (``Am I not your Lord``) which all humans gave to God before the creation of the World on the Day of the Primordial Covenant (Yawm al Mithaaq). Such an explanation has also been given by Imam Ghazali to explain why it is that a beautiful sounds can have such an effect on the human heart. Thus Ghalib is saying that when, during the qawwal performance, when the listener hears the sounds of the harp and lyre it reminds him of the Promise to God made on that Day and thus he has such a spiritual experience whilst hearing it. Such that it feels like his soul wishes to leave his body (and hence join its Creator)...
#30 Posted by Inquirer on July 20, 2006 6:08:20 am
#28 & #29:
I was quite intrigued to read #28 when I saw the interpretation of ``baab meiN`` by Naqshbandi. But there was an obvious reference to Islamic religious ideas and I decided to wait for its illumination.
Fortunately, #29 echoboom responded to Naqshbandi in a way that I would have desired. I am aware of the word ``baabat`` but my dictionary on ``baab`` did not make things clear.
Now Eureka! The interpretation of the last phrase of #28 by echoboom in #29 indictates to me that what is being said in `` [Ana madinat al `ilm wa `Aliyyun baabuh.a]`` is that the knowledge of Self is through passing through the ``gate`` known as Ali.
This seems to be a very interesting intersection of Hindu Monism and Islamic Sufism. In the Vedanta Self and God are the same. It is at this point of intersection which is reached by the Jivanmukta.
I was quite intrigued to read #28 when I saw the interpretation of ``baab meiN`` by Naqshbandi. But there was an obvious reference to Islamic religious ideas and I decided to wait for its illumination.
Fortunately, #29 echoboom responded to Naqshbandi in a way that I would have desired. I am aware of the word ``baabat`` but my dictionary on ``baab`` did not make things clear.
Now Eureka! The interpretation of the last phrase of #28 by echoboom in #29 indictates to me that what is being said in `` [Ana madinat al `ilm wa `Aliyyun baabuh.a]`` is that the knowledge of Self is through passing through the ``gate`` known as Ali.
This seems to be a very interesting intersection of Hindu Monism and Islamic Sufism. In the Vedanta Self and God are the same. It is at this point of intersection which is reached by the Jivanmukta.
#29 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 4:04:19 pm
Aasif
Baab mein: yaa`ani unkee babat yeh kaha jataa hai. Quoting Ilm ka drvaza is accentuating it a bit.
Maikasho aaO aaO madinay chalaiN
dUst-e Saqi-e-Kausar sey peenay chalaiN. ...sabri brathraan.
Hazrat Ali is in Najaf--meaning buried--& not in madina).
But in general parlance, because of some qavvals & ``sufis``, the term in a lot of minds is inter-changed for Hazrat Ali as well. Where Ghalib is concerned, he would not make such an error--given the sharktype contemporary rivals pouncing upon him for even some slight indiscretion.
Baab mein: yaa`ani unkee babat yeh kaha jataa hai. Quoting Ilm ka drvaza is accentuating it a bit.
Maikasho aaO aaO madinay chalaiN
dUst-e Saqi-e-Kausar sey peenay chalaiN. ...sabri brathraan.
Hazrat Ali is in Najaf--meaning buried--& not in madina).
But in general parlance, because of some qavvals & ``sufis``, the term in a lot of minds is inter-changed for Hazrat Ali as well. Where Ghalib is concerned, he would not make such an error--given the sharktype contemporary rivals pouncing upon him for even some slight indiscretion.
#28 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 19, 2006 1:52:08 pm
Re: # 19
Haazir hain qibla--koii hukm?
***
Another note on `baab mein` : in the praise of. Also: baab . Arabic word. Noun. gate, chapter, division. If we take the Saqi e Kawthar to be Hazrat Ali then this word `baab` is also an allusion by Ghalib to the hadith: `I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its gate [Ana madinat al `ilm wa `Aliyyun baabuh.a].
Haazir hain qibla--koii hukm?
***
Another note on `baab mein` : in the praise of. Also: baab . Arabic word. Noun. gate, chapter, division. If we take the Saqi e Kawthar to be Hazrat Ali then this word `baab` is also an allusion by Ghalib to the hadith: `I am the City of Knowledge and Ali is its gate [Ana madinat al `ilm wa `Aliyyun baabuh.a].
#27 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 1:44:21 pm
Kehtay haiN kay ghalib ka hai andaaz-e byaaN aur
You might have heard it; if not its a treat.
You might have heard it; if not its a treat.
#26 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 19, 2006 1:44:02 pm
echoboom bhai, inquirer bhai
``aamad e aaftaab, daleel e aaftab ast!``
Yes, my transliteration was taken from the wonderful Pritchett site but the translation was all my own.
The first couplet: Ghalib, we must remember, though a Muslim, was a habitual drinker.
Secondly, the belief of the Ahlus Sunnah and the Shia, both, is that the Prophet will intercede
for the sinful Muslims on the Day of Judgement before God. Drinking alcohol in Islam is a sin as everyone knows. So, Ghalib says in the opening couplet, why should I stop my drinking? I know that I will get the intercession of the Prophet--since he is so generous that his intercession will not only be for pious Muslims but also for sinners (in a famous hadith he has said, `my intercession is for my sinful followers`) like myself. Therefore, to stop drinking is, in reality, to have a bad opinion towards the Prophet`s generosity! (In the terminology of Islamic jurisprudence, husn al-dhann means `to hold a good opinion of` and suu-al-dhann is the opposite. We are encouraged as believers to hold a good opinion of our fellow beings--what then should be our opinion towards the Cupbearer (Saqi) of the Fountain of Paradise (al-Kawthar)? i.e. the Prophet --who is the owner of the Fount (Quran: Surah al Kawthar--`Verily, we have given thee the Fountain``).
To paraphrase it in simple language Ghalib is saying, `Look don`t limit the Prophet`s mercy and generosity and intercession only to the pious and good! No indeed! His intercession extends to all--including sinful drinkers like myself!` It is a most ingenious justification of his own drinking and typically Ghalib whilst being a naat at the same time!
``aamad e aaftaab, daleel e aaftab ast!``
Yes, my transliteration was taken from the wonderful Pritchett site but the translation was all my own.
The first couplet: Ghalib, we must remember, though a Muslim, was a habitual drinker.
Secondly, the belief of the Ahlus Sunnah and the Shia, both, is that the Prophet will intercede
for the sinful Muslims on the Day of Judgement before God. Drinking alcohol in Islam is a sin as everyone knows. So, Ghalib says in the opening couplet, why should I stop my drinking? I know that I will get the intercession of the Prophet--since he is so generous that his intercession will not only be for pious Muslims but also for sinners (in a famous hadith he has said, `my intercession is for my sinful followers`) like myself. Therefore, to stop drinking is, in reality, to have a bad opinion towards the Prophet`s generosity! (In the terminology of Islamic jurisprudence, husn al-dhann means `to hold a good opinion of` and suu-al-dhann is the opposite. We are encouraged as believers to hold a good opinion of our fellow beings--what then should be our opinion towards the Cupbearer (Saqi) of the Fountain of Paradise (al-Kawthar)? i.e. the Prophet --who is the owner of the Fount (Quran: Surah al Kawthar--`Verily, we have given thee the Fountain``).
To paraphrase it in simple language Ghalib is saying, `Look don`t limit the Prophet`s mercy and generosity and intercession only to the pious and good! No indeed! His intercession extends to all--including sinful drinkers like myself!` It is a most ingenious justification of his own drinking and typically Ghalib whilst being a naat at the same time!
#25 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 1:43:48 pm
Kehtay haiN kay ghalib ka hai andaaz-e byaaN aur
You might have heard it; if not its a treat.
You might have heard it; if not its a treat.
#24 Posted by Inquirer on July 19, 2006 12:51:15 pm
Re: # 23,echoboom:
Janaab, aap chahey maaneN, yaa na maaneN, Frances W. Pritchett is the Rooh of Nawaab Jaan!
Janaab, aap chahey maaneN, yaa na maaneN, Frances W. Pritchett is the Rooh of Nawaab Jaan!
#23 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 12:17:24 pm
Inquirer:
Frances Pritchett is a woman Professor at Columbia. I think she teaches Urdu & related languages & literature.
Her devotion & ``marriage`` to Urdu & especially Ghalib is of instituitional & monumental magnificense.
Please also access Ghalib on my ilog page & click there. A teasure trove of vocals, translations & many much more stuff by another ``crazy``.
In the words of Ghalib: `` Hum Mughal bachay bhee ajeeb hotay haiN, jiss pUr mUrtay haiN uus ko Maar daitay haiN..``
Just replace ``mughal`` with ``amreekan``: .......They love someone /something so much that they end up ``killing`` it.
Vafadaari bshart-i uustavaari asl-e eemaan hai
mray buut-khaanay meiN toa kaabay meiN garro brahmin ki....Ghalib.
Unflinching adherence & loyalty is the essence of belief. If a Brahmin dies inside a temple, he deserves a burial in Khanaa-i Kaaba.
Frances Pritchett is a woman Professor at Columbia. I think she teaches Urdu & related languages & literature.
Her devotion & ``marriage`` to Urdu & especially Ghalib is of instituitional & monumental magnificense.
Please also access Ghalib on my ilog page & click there. A teasure trove of vocals, translations & many much more stuff by another ``crazy``.
In the words of Ghalib: `` Hum Mughal bachay bhee ajeeb hotay haiN, jiss pUr mUrtay haiN uus ko Maar daitay haiN..``
Just replace ``mughal`` with ``amreekan``: .......They love someone /something so much that they end up ``killing`` it.
Vafadaari bshart-i uustavaari asl-e eemaan hai
mray buut-khaanay meiN toa kaabay meiN garro brahmin ki....Ghalib.
Unflinching adherence & loyalty is the essence of belief. If a Brahmin dies inside a temple, he deserves a burial in Khanaa-i Kaaba.
#22 Posted by Inquirer on July 19, 2006 11:56:00 am
Re: # 21, echoboom:
I am stumped and stupefied at the site given by you!!!!
I am, forever, indebted to you for this tip.
Who is this guy, Pritchett? Wo to bilkul sarabor hai Ghalib sey!!!
Par hamaare liye to aap hii bahot uunche haiN.
I still look forward to seeing your selection of Jewels of Urdu made easy for me!!!!!!!
I am stumped and stupefied at the site given by you!!!!
I am, forever, indebted to you for this tip.
Who is this guy, Pritchett? Wo to bilkul sarabor hai Ghalib sey!!!
Par hamaare liye to aap hii bahot uunche haiN.
I still look forward to seeing your selection of Jewels of Urdu made easy for me!!!!!!!
#21 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 10:52:37 am
Inquirer:
Thank you for the exaggerated & undeserved adulation. I do not really enjoy being a ``tutor`` simply because it robs me of an opportunity to learn myself--time , you understand is at a premium now. Being a late starter myself, and having acquired & developed the taste in Urdu, Farsi, and arabie entirely on my own [I was thoroughly ruined by the Ba Ba Blacksheep missionary schools--hence my angst gainst the rape of young minds in slavistaans].
That is why I referred to as ``gut-wrenching`` although one could call it tedious & boring. I am ``wild`` & ``undisciplined`` in my disposition, and I neither relish it or regret it--it came with the manual--and get nervous when faced with tedium & routine.
There is plenty of work already done & let me refer you to the Pritchet site where it has everything laid out so beautifully in all the three scripts.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib
But my translations are entirely my own & I never read tafseers by others. I try to ``solve`` the shairs at my own level(maybe primary) and at my own pace.
``Zeest mushkil hai, issay aur bhee mushkil naa banaa`--Life already is humdrum, render it not even more meaningless.
haiñ āj kyūñ żalīl kih kal tak nah thī pasand
gustāḳhī-e farishtah hamāre janāb meñ
a simple straightforward tete-a-tete with Allah mian. {ghalib`s humour}
So why we (humans: adam`s progeny) now are in such a mess. It was just yesterday that
an archangel`s indicretion towards us was not tolerated by you. [Referring to the condemnation of Satan when he refused to prostrate to Adam].
Thank you for the exaggerated & undeserved adulation. I do not really enjoy being a ``tutor`` simply because it robs me of an opportunity to learn myself--time , you understand is at a premium now. Being a late starter myself, and having acquired & developed the taste in Urdu, Farsi, and arabie entirely on my own [I was thoroughly ruined by the Ba Ba Blacksheep missionary schools--hence my angst gainst the rape of young minds in slavistaans].
That is why I referred to as ``gut-wrenching`` although one could call it tedious & boring. I am ``wild`` & ``undisciplined`` in my disposition, and I neither relish it or regret it--it came with the manual--and get nervous when faced with tedium & routine.
There is plenty of work already done & let me refer you to the Pritchet site where it has everything laid out so beautifully in all the three scripts.
http://www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00ghalib
But my translations are entirely my own & I never read tafseers by others. I try to ``solve`` the shairs at my own level(maybe primary) and at my own pace.
``Zeest mushkil hai, issay aur bhee mushkil naa banaa`--Life already is humdrum, render it not even more meaningless.
haiñ āj kyūñ żalīl kih kal tak nah thī pasand
gustāḳhī-e farishtah hamāre janāb meñ
a simple straightforward tete-a-tete with Allah mian. {ghalib`s humour}
So why we (humans: adam`s progeny) now are in such a mess. It was just yesterday that
an archangel`s indicretion towards us was not tolerated by you. [Referring to the condemnation of Satan when he refused to prostrate to Adam].
#20 Posted by Inquirer on July 19, 2006 5:40:59 am
Re: # 19, echoboom:
Bhai! Kyaa kahnaa!!
Aap kii yeh post to aap ke home page kaa aks rakhtii hai!!!
****Yours is the exact style that is needed at Chowk to develop widespread interest in Urdu Shaayari of great poets.
I represent the ``needy`` because I do not know Urdu script but have a keen interest Urdu shaayari.
It will be great if you select a dozen great poems and produce a systematic treatment you have initiated with this sher of Ghalib.
I know I am suggesting a work that would be ``gut wrenching,`` many times!! But it will be a unique service to Urdu Poetry.
By the way, aap kii ijaazat ho to ``dost kaa sher`` maiN apne ek dost ko bhej doon!
Bhai! Kyaa kahnaa!!
Aap kii yeh post to aap ke home page kaa aks rakhtii hai!!!
****Yours is the exact style that is needed at Chowk to develop widespread interest in Urdu Shaayari of great poets.
I represent the ``needy`` because I do not know Urdu script but have a keen interest Urdu shaayari.
It will be great if you select a dozen great poems and produce a systematic treatment you have initiated with this sher of Ghalib.
I know I am suggesting a work that would be ``gut wrenching,`` many times!! But it will be a unique service to Urdu Poetry.
By the way, aap kii ijaazat ho to ``dost kaa sher`` maiN apne ek dost ko bhej doon!
#19 Posted by echoboom on July 18, 2006 4:57:33 pm
Ghalib`s ghazal here; one shair at a time.
``Kal kay liyay kar aaj naa khhissat sharaab meiN
Yeh soo-e-zUn hai, saaqi-e kausar kay baab meiN``
Kal kay liyay: for tomorrow or future
aaj na: not today
Khissat: stinginess but more closely un-generous or worrier-about-tomorrow or a ``saver``
Sharab meiN: metaphorically goodies, benefits, sharing wealth with friends or poor: A generic term for what could make the receiver happy in this world.
Yeh soo-e zUn: It is the optimistic delusion that one would be around even tomorrow to
drink the wine thus pinched or saved.
saqi-e kausar: The prophet (pbuh) who as the sufi tradition goes is a paragon of magnanimity & generositywho will look after the ones who love him. Qaseem-i-kausar: Hazrat Ali. Saaqui-e-Alam : Allah
baab meiN: meaning that in a hadeeth the prophet has said that one should not be so sure of his tomorrow that he witholds from the needy what could bring them happiness today.
we can continue:
P.S: Aaasif bhai--``Khataa hUm ney kee, jo khafaa ho gae haiN
......................... Vo vaaday muhabbat kay, kyaa ho gae haiN``
``Kal kay liyay kar aaj naa khhissat sharaab meiN
Yeh soo-e-zUn hai, saaqi-e kausar kay baab meiN``
Kal kay liyay: for tomorrow or future
aaj na: not today
Khissat: stinginess but more closely un-generous or worrier-about-tomorrow or a ``saver``
Sharab meiN: metaphorically goodies, benefits, sharing wealth with friends or poor: A generic term for what could make the receiver happy in this world.
Yeh soo-e zUn: It is the optimistic delusion that one would be around even tomorrow to
drink the wine thus pinched or saved.
saqi-e kausar: The prophet (pbuh) who as the sufi tradition goes is a paragon of magnanimity & generositywho will look after the ones who love him. Qaseem-i-kausar: Hazrat Ali. Saaqui-e-Alam : Allah
baab meiN: meaning that in a hadeeth the prophet has said that one should not be so sure of his tomorrow that he witholds from the needy what could bring them happiness today.
we can continue:
P.S: Aaasif bhai--``Khataa hUm ney kee, jo khafaa ho gae haiN
......................... Vo vaaday muhabbat kay, kyaa ho gae haiN``
#18 Posted by Inquirer on July 18, 2006 1:29:38 pm
Re: # 17:
Yes, it would be interesting if you could adopt the following format for each sher:
(i) A glossary of the words used. Imagine people not familiar with Urdu.
(ii) Basic idea of the statement.
(iii) What imagery you would like to be seen.
Yes, it would be interesting if you could adopt the following format for each sher:
(i) A glossary of the words used. Imagine people not familiar with Urdu.
(ii) Basic idea of the statement.
(iii) What imagery you would like to be seen.
#17 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 18, 2006 11:05:15 am
Inquirer,
The version you have posted appears more of a looser translation; mine was literal and deliberately so: I didn`t want to change Ghalib`s actual words even if it made it less poetic although I did try to be poetic where possible.
As for retaining the word `niqab` I think it is a word which is now familiar enough to
English readers to be untranslated. The word `veil` has different connotations and denotes headscarf...
If you like we can discuss Ghalib`s ghazal couplet by couplet? The matla` is obviously religious and only makes sense if it is read as such too...
The version you have posted appears more of a looser translation; mine was literal and deliberately so: I didn`t want to change Ghalib`s actual words even if it made it less poetic although I did try to be poetic where possible.
As for retaining the word `niqab` I think it is a word which is now familiar enough to
English readers to be untranslated. The word `veil` has different connotations and denotes headscarf...
If you like we can discuss Ghalib`s ghazal couplet by couplet? The matla` is obviously religious and only makes sense if it is read as such too...
#16 Posted by Inquirer on July 18, 2006 9:13:50 am
Re: # 15: Thanks, now your translation is readable.
I am sorry, I asked you about the eleven principles and its relationship to monism without clarification. That inquiry has nothing to do with your submission, Ghalib or his poetry. I was intrigued when I read about it separately and asked you the question since you call yourself Naqshbandi!
Now, there seems to be some difference between the two versions available on the Chowk board so I was looking for the Devnagari version. Of course, Ghalib did not write his ghazal in Devnagari but I believe that translation may be more authentic than the computerized translations.
Let us consider an example of the differences:
Yours:
She has still not finished adorning her beauty
Before her eyes a mirror, forever hidden inside the niqab!
The other:
The adorning of her beauty
Leaves no time for ease;
Even beneath the veil, her mirror
Constantly confronts her.
In your version the emphasis is on the continued private adornment while the other version indicates a fundamental dissatisfaction with the state of adornment and even its consequence.
Furthermore, Naqshbndi Bhai, it is desirable in English translation not to use urdu words like ``nikab.``
I think it might be more doable and constructive to pick up a good poem, tranliterate it, and provide an interpretation for the discussion on the Board rather than develop an English poetical translation which is much more demanding.
I am sorry, I asked you about the eleven principles and its relationship to monism without clarification. That inquiry has nothing to do with your submission, Ghalib or his poetry. I was intrigued when I read about it separately and asked you the question since you call yourself Naqshbandi!
Now, there seems to be some difference between the two versions available on the Chowk board so I was looking for the Devnagari version. Of course, Ghalib did not write his ghazal in Devnagari but I believe that translation may be more authentic than the computerized translations.
Let us consider an example of the differences:
Yours:
She has still not finished adorning her beauty
Before her eyes a mirror, forever hidden inside the niqab!
The other:
The adorning of her beauty
Leaves no time for ease;
Even beneath the veil, her mirror
Constantly confronts her.
In your version the emphasis is on the continued private adornment while the other version indicates a fundamental dissatisfaction with the state of adornment and even its consequence.
Furthermore, Naqshbndi Bhai, it is desirable in English translation not to use urdu words like ``nikab.``
I think it might be more doable and constructive to pick up a good poem, tranliterate it, and provide an interpretation for the discussion on the Board rather than develop an English poetical translation which is much more demanding.
#15 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 17, 2006 3:14:30 pm
Do Not Be Stingy With the Wine Today by Mirza Ghalib
Inquirer, I have removed the spaces and just printed my translation below. This format should make it easier to read. IMHO, it is Ghalib`s expression of the Sufi concept of Wahdat al Wujud which, despite apparent similarities with Monism is NOT the same as Monism. Monism says that `God is in Everything`. This is kufr. The Sufis say, ``Only God really Exists. Everything else is an allusion.`` This is the ultimate understanding of Tawheed.
Do not be stingy with the wine today for fear of tomorrow:
Hold a better opinion of the Cupbearer of Kawthar than this!
Why are we so disgraced today when til yesterday
Even the angels weren`t permitted to be rude in our presence?
Why does my soul appear to leave my body during the audition?
It`s as if that cry is hidden in the notes of the instruments
The steed of life is in its stride, where will it halt?
There is no hand upon the reins, no foot in the stirrups lies!
I`m as far removed from the Reality of my Self as
I am perplexed by the thoughts of the Other
The reality of the witness, the Witnessed and witnessing is one;
I am astonished then as to the meaning of bearing witness.
The existence of the Ocean is encompassed in the drop
What then is the purpose of drop and wave and bubble?
Shame is a coquettish gesture, even if it is for oneself!
Many unveiled ones are thus veiled in this manner!
She has still not finished adorning her beauty
Before her eyes a mirror, forever hidden inside the niqab!
He is unseen even from the Unseen, whom we believe to be Present
Those who awaken inside a dream are still really dreaming!
Ghalib, the breeze coming from the Friend smells of the Friend
I`m busy with the Truth, in the adoration of ‘Bu Turab [Ali ]!
Inquirer, I have removed the spaces and just printed my translation below. This format should make it easier to read. IMHO, it is Ghalib`s expression of the Sufi concept of Wahdat al Wujud which, despite apparent similarities with Monism is NOT the same as Monism. Monism says that `God is in Everything`. This is kufr. The Sufis say, ``Only God really Exists. Everything else is an allusion.`` This is the ultimate understanding of Tawheed.
Do not be stingy with the wine today for fear of tomorrow:
Hold a better opinion of the Cupbearer of Kawthar than this!
Why are we so disgraced today when til yesterday
Even the angels weren`t permitted to be rude in our presence?
Why does my soul appear to leave my body during the audition?
It`s as if that cry is hidden in the notes of the instruments
The steed of life is in its stride, where will it halt?
There is no hand upon the reins, no foot in the stirrups lies!
I`m as far removed from the Reality of my Self as
I am perplexed by the thoughts of the Other
The reality of the witness, the Witnessed and witnessing is one;
I am astonished then as to the meaning of bearing witness.
The existence of the Ocean is encompassed in the drop
What then is the purpose of drop and wave and bubble?
Shame is a coquettish gesture, even if it is for oneself!
Many unveiled ones are thus veiled in this manner!
She has still not finished adorning her beauty
Before her eyes a mirror, forever hidden inside the niqab!
He is unseen even from the Unseen, whom we believe to be Present
Those who awaken inside a dream are still really dreaming!
Ghalib, the breeze coming from the Friend smells of the Friend
I`m busy with the Truth, in the adoration of ‘Bu Turab [Ali ]!
#14 Posted by Inquirer on July 17, 2006 2:59:45 pm
Naqshbandi Bhai:
Here is another interpretation of Ghalib`s Ghazal that you have translated. It would be nice to have a Devanagri version of the original Ghazal to discuss the differences in approaches. For some reason your presentation has many gaps and, therefore, it is hard to read. Would be interested in your comments.
With the thought of tomorrow,
Be not niggardly today, O Saqi;
This would be disrespectful
To the Saqi of Paradise.
Why have we become so contemptible
Today, when till yesterday ,
Our honour did not tolerate
The impudence of the angel.
Listening to sweet music, why does it seem
That one`s life is draining away?
Is it because we hear His voice
In the notes of the lute and the rebeck?
The steed of age is galloping;
Let us see where it will stop;
The hand does not hold the rein
And the foot is not in the stirrup.
I am as far removed
From my own reality
As my twisting and turning
Stems from the thought of the other.
The reality of the sight of God,
The one who sees, and what is seen,
All in effect are one; I am amazed
Then, what is all this witnessing?
The sea`s substance consists of
The shifting appearance of forms;
What then is in the drop,
And the bubble, and the wave?
Coyness, even with oneself
Is but a form of dalliance;
How many unveiled ones
Go about covered by a veil?
The adorning of her beauty
Leaves no time for ease;
Even beneath the veil, her mirror
Constantly confronts her.
Here is another interpretation of Ghalib`s Ghazal that you have translated. It would be nice to have a Devanagri version of the original Ghazal to discuss the differences in approaches. For some reason your presentation has many gaps and, therefore, it is hard to read. Would be interested in your comments.
With the thought of tomorrow,
Be not niggardly today, O Saqi;
This would be disrespectful
To the Saqi of Paradise.
Why have we become so contemptible
Today, when till yesterday ,
Our honour did not tolerate
The impudence of the angel.
Listening to sweet music, why does it seem
That one`s life is draining away?
Is it because we hear His voice
In the notes of the lute and the rebeck?
The steed of age is galloping;
Let us see where it will stop;
The hand does not hold the rein
And the foot is not in the stirrup.
I am as far removed
From my own reality
As my twisting and turning
Stems from the thought of the other.
The reality of the sight of God,
The one who sees, and what is seen,
All in effect are one; I am amazed
Then, what is all this witnessing?
The sea`s substance consists of
The shifting appearance of forms;
What then is in the drop,
And the bubble, and the wave?
Coyness, even with oneself
Is but a form of dalliance;
How many unveiled ones
Go about covered by a veil?
The adorning of her beauty
Leaves no time for ease;
Even beneath the veil, her mirror
Constantly confronts her.
#13 Posted by Inquirer on July 17, 2006 2:46:41 pm
Re: # 12, Naqshbandi Bhai:
``If these 11 exercises have some commonality with the spiritual practises of other faiths, e.g. hinduism, that is neither here nor there. ``
Not really, it is an indication how a religious synthesis and syncretism was developing in India prior to the pernicious partition of India. We need to recognize its importance and draw appropriate lessons. On the other hand, if we don`t then we will inexorably retrogress into sectarian conflicts even within Islam and Hinduism. Of which Pakistan and Iraq are the currently burgeoning examples.
Just as Rahim and Kabir were Muslims and they tried to understand the elements of Hinduism, similarly there were, in India, Hindu monists who saw Islamic practices as a subset of monism and they tried to adopt a syncretical attitude towards Islam. The specific case that I pointed out to you was not an academic exercise. Those elements were incorporated in the corpus of the faith propounded and practiced by those monists.
``If these 11 exercises have some commonality with the spiritual practises of other faiths, e.g. hinduism, that is neither here nor there. ``
Not really, it is an indication how a religious synthesis and syncretism was developing in India prior to the pernicious partition of India. We need to recognize its importance and draw appropriate lessons. On the other hand, if we don`t then we will inexorably retrogress into sectarian conflicts even within Islam and Hinduism. Of which Pakistan and Iraq are the currently burgeoning examples.
Just as Rahim and Kabir were Muslims and they tried to understand the elements of Hinduism, similarly there were, in India, Hindu monists who saw Islamic practices as a subset of monism and they tried to adopt a syncretical attitude towards Islam. The specific case that I pointed out to you was not an academic exercise. Those elements were incorporated in the corpus of the faith propounded and practiced by those monists.
#12 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 17, 2006 2:25:31 pm
Inquirer bhai,
That there exist common stages in the spiritual ascent of man which are found in all of the world`s religions is something i have never disputed. i merely mentioned that Shaykh al0-Ghajdawani was the one who delineated these spiritual practises which all Naqshbandis are expected to do if they wish to progress on the Path. If these 11 exercises have some commonality with the spiritual practises of other faiths, e.g. hinduism, that is neither here nor there.
That there exist common stages in the spiritual ascent of man which are found in all of the world`s religions is something i have never disputed. i merely mentioned that Shaykh al0-Ghajdawani was the one who delineated these spiritual practises which all Naqshbandis are expected to do if they wish to progress on the Path. If these 11 exercises have some commonality with the spiritual practises of other faiths, e.g. hinduism, that is neither here nor there.
#11 Posted by Inquirer on July 17, 2006 9:54:31 am
#4, echoboom:
``Iqbal is simply urging muslims to be more dynamic in ``active`` Islam as well, besides the rituals. ``
****The crux of the matter lies in defining `dynamic in ``active``.` What is the importance of exclusivism and exploitation in it?****
#7, murtaza``
``‘There`s a superhuman inside you and I and all those around us. We`re living in a time when we have no choice but to bring him out.’ ``
****The selfish and deliberate miunderstanding (= distortion) resulted in fascism in Germany and can lead to the same anywhere. By and large, the idea of the superman is really the propaganda of the dishonest.****
#8, Naqshbandi:
**** That I, of course, suspected. But I wanted you to note the synthetic process that existed between Islam and Hindu thinkers. The Hindu thinkers tried in a practical way to identify the common features of all religions. All that was - not irreversibly, I hope - destroyed by the Jinnah and his ilk.
Your providing of information that some Sufi saint developed the eleven principles is appreciated but it is a tautology which illustrates an inability to recognize the shared quality of the principles. This is possibly an inadvertent indication of exclusivism with which the Muslims are reared. Your singular lack of interest in the thinkers I referred to confirms my statements!!****
#9, ecoboom: Your page is a storehouse of info!
#10, echoboom: I agree with much of what you have written about superman/ubermensch in #9, 10. Besides, one has to guard against becoming a cheap copy of the Nazis! Truly, hopefully, you are right in:
``So Umer you see where our man differs from superman?``
One needs to have a proper understanding of:
``Where all that is hath ever been,
As One and Whole. ``
``Iqbal is simply urging muslims to be more dynamic in ``active`` Islam as well, besides the rituals. ``
****The crux of the matter lies in defining `dynamic in ``active``.` What is the importance of exclusivism and exploitation in it?****
#7, murtaza``
``‘There`s a superhuman inside you and I and all those around us. We`re living in a time when we have no choice but to bring him out.’ ``
****The selfish and deliberate miunderstanding (= distortion) resulted in fascism in Germany and can lead to the same anywhere. By and large, the idea of the superman is really the propaganda of the dishonest.****
#8, Naqshbandi:
**** That I, of course, suspected. But I wanted you to note the synthetic process that existed between Islam and Hindu thinkers. The Hindu thinkers tried in a practical way to identify the common features of all religions. All that was - not irreversibly, I hope - destroyed by the Jinnah and his ilk.
Your providing of information that some Sufi saint developed the eleven principles is appreciated but it is a tautology which illustrates an inability to recognize the shared quality of the principles. This is possibly an inadvertent indication of exclusivism with which the Muslims are reared. Your singular lack of interest in the thinkers I referred to confirms my statements!!****
#9, ecoboom: Your page is a storehouse of info!
#10, echoboom: I agree with much of what you have written about superman/ubermensch in #9, 10. Besides, one has to guard against becoming a cheap copy of the Nazis! Truly, hopefully, you are right in:
``So Umer you see where our man differs from superman?``
One needs to have a proper understanding of:
``Where all that is hath ever been,
As One and Whole. ``
#10 Posted by echoboom on July 15, 2006 11:57:37 am
Further to#9:
This is an excerpt ferom ``Reconstruction....`` , Iqbal`s remarkable lectures, originally in english, compiled & published in 1912. Has never gone out of print ever since.
Here ( most likely you`ve already read this one, but maybe for others) Rumi, 7/8 hundred years ago is talking not only from where we came but where we are & most importantly where we are heading.
This concept was very elegantly employey by Ricchard Bach in `` Jonathan Livingstone Seagull``. A thin short story about a bird which wants to be a super-bird. Richard Bach, an ace pilot & maybe the best in US airforce, refused to shave his mustache & gave up flying
simply to retain his ``khuudi``--hence this marvellous book which brought a revolution in corporate US & was a used, vulgarly & sadlyI should say, to increase sales .
It was a top best-seller in the 70`s.
...............``
In the second place we have to look to the great practical importance of the question. The modern man with his philosophies of criticism and scientific specialism finds himself in a strange predicament. His Naturalism has given him an unprecedented control over the forces of Nature, but has robbed him of faith in his own future. It is strange how the same idea affects different cultures differently. The formulation of the theory of evolution in the world of Islam brought into being Rëmâ’s tremendous enthusiasm for the biological future of man. No cultured Muslim can read such passages as the following without a thrill of joy:
............................................``
(Man--by Rumi:) [ this is title given by me--echo; I cannot recall the original right now]
Low in the earth
I lived in realms of ore and stone;
And then I smiled in many-tinted flowers;
Then roving with the wild and wandering hours,
O’er earth and air and ocean’s zone,
In a new birth,
I dived and flew,
And crept and ran,
And all the secret of my essence drew
Within a form that brought them all to view -
And lo, a Man!
And then my goal,
Beyond the clouds, beyond the sky,
In realms where none may change or die -
In angel form; and then away
Beyond the bounds of night and day,
And Life and Death, unseen or seen,
Where all that is hath ever been,
As One and Whole.
So Umer you see where our man differs from superman?
This is an excerpt ferom ``Reconstruction....`` , Iqbal`s remarkable lectures, originally in english, compiled & published in 1912. Has never gone out of print ever since.
Here ( most likely you`ve already read this one, but maybe for others) Rumi, 7/8 hundred years ago is talking not only from where we came but where we are & most importantly where we are heading.
This concept was very elegantly employey by Ricchard Bach in `` Jonathan Livingstone Seagull``. A thin short story about a bird which wants to be a super-bird. Richard Bach, an ace pilot & maybe the best in US airforce, refused to shave his mustache & gave up flying
simply to retain his ``khuudi``--hence this marvellous book which brought a revolution in corporate US & was a used, vulgarly & sadlyI should say, to increase sales .
It was a top best-seller in the 70`s.
...............``
In the second place we have to look to the great practical importance of the question. The modern man with his philosophies of criticism and scientific specialism finds himself in a strange predicament. His Naturalism has given him an unprecedented control over the forces of Nature, but has robbed him of faith in his own future. It is strange how the same idea affects different cultures differently. The formulation of the theory of evolution in the world of Islam brought into being Rëmâ’s tremendous enthusiasm for the biological future of man. No cultured Muslim can read such passages as the following without a thrill of joy:
............................................``
(Man--by Rumi:) [ this is title given by me--echo; I cannot recall the original right now]
Low in the earth
I lived in realms of ore and stone;
And then I smiled in many-tinted flowers;
Then roving with the wild and wandering hours,
O’er earth and air and ocean’s zone,
In a new birth,
I dived and flew,
And crept and ran,
And all the secret of my essence drew
Within a form that brought them all to view -
And lo, a Man!
And then my goal,
Beyond the clouds, beyond the sky,
In realms where none may change or die -
In angel form; and then away
Beyond the bounds of night and day,
And Life and Death, unseen or seen,
Where all that is hath ever been,
As One and Whole.
So Umer you see where our man differs from superman?
#9 Posted by echoboom on July 15, 2006 9:33:58 am
Umer Murteza:
Nice to hear from you.
That was a very uplifting account you gave about your art. Please write more.
Goethe in his ``faust`` has thoroughly castigated the concept of superhuman man. Do not get me wrong. Unbridled pursuit can be even be satanic . The mad scientist (chemistry!) there is the metaphor for Dr.Strangloves of our times [``dr. Stangelove--or how I learned to love the bomb``--the movie PeterSellers superb].
Mardi-Khuda or Mard-i-Momin is the true ``translation`` of Ubermensch [If you notice even in english it is a ``wrong`` translation ``uber`` being /over but not /super ]
Masjid-i-Qartaba is the only & ultimate poem you need because it talks about the ``Art`` & the ``artist`` & nothing else; of-course in the context of ``Islamic[ uncorrupted Humanism]
background.
``Hai mgar uuss naqsh mein RunG O sabaat O Dvaam
jis ko kiyaa ho kisi, mrd-e khudaa ney tamaam
mrd-i khuda kaa amal, ishque sey sahib faroagh
ishque khuud ik sAeil hai, sAeil ko laita hai thaam
Rung ho ya khisht O sunG , chUnG ho ya hrf O saut
mujaza-i fUn kee hai, khoon-i jigar sey namood!
IN the above shair Iqbal has beautifull covered all art: Rung--Painting; Khisht--brick--architecture; sung--stone--sculpture; chUng--lyre--music; hrf--word--writing; saut--sound--voice [singing & oratory]
Iqbal`s Javed Naama is the ultimate science-fiction & space-travel book you`ll ever need. Ii also covers all the names who have spoken of ``superman`` & in one go covers eons of human-thought. If you know farsi--then great (i know little myself) but english would do.
If you know Dr. Naumaan-ul-Haque let me know or i`ll give you his e-mail. He spent his sentire school years in england. Graduated with laurels in engineering [& never pursued that career) at cambridge & Iqbal directed him to humanities and now we have someone who is so ``at-home`` with the east & west. He taeches univ. and somehow has a fondness for me. He once suggested that we both pursue higher studies at Qom; the great learning center in Iran [Dr. Hussain Nasr`s second alma-mater]. I`ve had very rewrding meetings with Mr. Meer also. These gentlemen are quite fascinated by ``unprofessionals`` like us.
I hope I`ve been of some help; write to me & maybe we`ll meet someday.
Asif:
The ``confusion`` about Iqbal lines above was because they are two separate Rub``a``ees which are written as a ``poem`` above. Believe me, how desperate I got trying to locate the ``poem``..because I ``knew`` it was somewhere & just couldn`t find it.
also I wanted to ``correct`` the vo dil vo ``awaaz``--no it is arzoo. I did not want to correct this unless I could confirm it. Please do not get the roman ones from the net. Do it from the book itself ; because you are good at urdu--farsi yourself.
Umer/asif & others: On my i-log page there is a link for muslim philosophy. That would give you the entire works of muslim writers through the ages.
Nice to hear from you.
That was a very uplifting account you gave about your art. Please write more.
Goethe in his ``faust`` has thoroughly castigated the concept of superhuman man. Do not get me wrong. Unbridled pursuit can be even be satanic . The mad scientist (chemistry!) there is the metaphor for Dr.Strangloves of our times [``dr. Stangelove--or how I learned to love the bomb``--the movie PeterSellers superb].
Mardi-Khuda or Mard-i-Momin is the true ``translation`` of Ubermensch [If you notice even in english it is a ``wrong`` translation ``uber`` being /over but not /super ]
Masjid-i-Qartaba is the only & ultimate poem you need because it talks about the ``Art`` & the ``artist`` & nothing else; of-course in the context of ``Islamic[ uncorrupted Humanism]
background.
``Hai mgar uuss naqsh mein RunG O sabaat O Dvaam
jis ko kiyaa ho kisi, mrd-e khudaa ney tamaam
mrd-i khuda kaa amal, ishque sey sahib faroagh
ishque khuud ik sAeil hai, sAeil ko laita hai thaam
Rung ho ya khisht O sunG , chUnG ho ya hrf O saut
mujaza-i fUn kee hai, khoon-i jigar sey namood!
IN the above shair Iqbal has beautifull covered all art: Rung--Painting; Khisht--brick--architecture; sung--stone--sculpture; chUng--lyre--music; hrf--word--writing; saut--sound--voice [singing & oratory]
Iqbal`s Javed Naama is the ultimate science-fiction & space-travel book you`ll ever need. Ii also covers all the names who have spoken of ``superman`` & in one go covers eons of human-thought. If you know farsi--then great (i know little myself) but english would do.
If you know Dr. Naumaan-ul-Haque let me know or i`ll give you his e-mail. He spent his sentire school years in england. Graduated with laurels in engineering [& never pursued that career) at cambridge & Iqbal directed him to humanities and now we have someone who is so ``at-home`` with the east & west. He taeches univ. and somehow has a fondness for me. He once suggested that we both pursue higher studies at Qom; the great learning center in Iran [Dr. Hussain Nasr`s second alma-mater]. I`ve had very rewrding meetings with Mr. Meer also. These gentlemen are quite fascinated by ``unprofessionals`` like us.
I hope I`ve been of some help; write to me & maybe we`ll meet someday.
Asif:
The ``confusion`` about Iqbal lines above was because they are two separate Rub``a``ees which are written as a ``poem`` above. Believe me, how desperate I got trying to locate the ``poem``..because I ``knew`` it was somewhere & just couldn`t find it.
also I wanted to ``correct`` the vo dil vo ``awaaz``--no it is arzoo. I did not want to correct this unless I could confirm it. Please do not get the roman ones from the net. Do it from the book itself ; because you are good at urdu--farsi yourself.
Umer/asif & others: On my i-log page there is a link for muslim philosophy. That would give you the entire works of muslim writers through the ages.
#8 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 15, 2006 5:59:31 am
Umar,
Writers who`ve written about the Superman. Well, obviously there`s Iqbal--you should read everything you can by him (esp. Bal i Jibril and his Persian stuff and the book Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam) and the secondary literature is vast so I`d recommend biographies and studies of his work by Anne Marie Schimmel, Arberry, and Mustansir Mir. In Urdu there is the book by his son, Zindarud. Dr. Ali Shariati is also another good writer about Iqbal and his ideas about Khudi.
Then, of course, there is Nietzsche. Any decent introductory book on him will cover his ideas of the Ubermensch. And you could then read his actual works too.
****
Inquirer, that is not a Hindu gurus idea--those 11 principles are the Principles of the Naaqshbandi Sufi path as defined and laid out by Shaykh al-Ghujdawani, one of the Grand Masters in the Naqshbandi silsila.
Writers who`ve written about the Superman. Well, obviously there`s Iqbal--you should read everything you can by him (esp. Bal i Jibril and his Persian stuff and the book Reconstruction of Religious Thought in Islam) and the secondary literature is vast so I`d recommend biographies and studies of his work by Anne Marie Schimmel, Arberry, and Mustansir Mir. In Urdu there is the book by his son, Zindarud. Dr. Ali Shariati is also another good writer about Iqbal and his ideas about Khudi.
Then, of course, there is Nietzsche. Any decent introductory book on him will cover his ideas of the Ubermensch. And you could then read his actual works too.
****
Inquirer, that is not a Hindu gurus idea--those 11 principles are the Principles of the Naaqshbandi Sufi path as defined and laid out by Shaykh al-Ghujdawani, one of the Grand Masters in the Naqshbandi silsila.
#7 Posted by UmerMurtaza on July 15, 2006 1:57:42 am
Asif, echo,
I was recently exhibiting a couple of numbers in the recent Islam expo held in Alexandra Palace, London, when a lady enquired about the yellow painting with lots of sphere’s and sticks. She pointed at a blue sphere.
‘That’s oxygen.’
She prodded at a ring structure.
‘Noradrenaline.’
She then moved back and with her finger traced Muhammed in the air.
I had, so to speak, painted a chemical ‘portrait’ of prophet Muhammed. When she asked why I had painted the chemistry of the man I told her that this was the chemistry of every human. And these chemicals weren’t just the cogs and cams of a corporeal creature. These were the retainers of knowledge, providers of motion and energy, transformers of body states, enforcers of love. Chemicals affected moods; moods were linked to emotions. And if ever she had experienced moments of profound truths she would know that they were associated with intense emotional states.
‘There`s a superhuman inside you and I and all those around us. We`re living in a time when we have no choice but to bring him out.’
And it dawned upon me that I have been fascinated with the superhuman concept without ever fully realising it. Iqbal without a doubt is a great influence and there are other paintings which have been inspired/influenced by a sentence or two from a work here and there (but what I have read is not even a fraction of his work).
If you folks can give any directions towards writers/poets/works who deal with the superhuman, I’d be forever indebted. Many thanks.
Umer M
I was recently exhibiting a couple of numbers in the recent Islam expo held in Alexandra Palace, London, when a lady enquired about the yellow painting with lots of sphere’s and sticks. She pointed at a blue sphere.
‘That’s oxygen.’
She prodded at a ring structure.
‘Noradrenaline.’
She then moved back and with her finger traced Muhammed in the air.
I had, so to speak, painted a chemical ‘portrait’ of prophet Muhammed. When she asked why I had painted the chemistry of the man I told her that this was the chemistry of every human. And these chemicals weren’t just the cogs and cams of a corporeal creature. These were the retainers of knowledge, providers of motion and energy, transformers of body states, enforcers of love. Chemicals affected moods; moods were linked to emotions. And if ever she had experienced moments of profound truths she would know that they were associated with intense emotional states.
‘There`s a superhuman inside you and I and all those around us. We`re living in a time when we have no choice but to bring him out.’
And it dawned upon me that I have been fascinated with the superhuman concept without ever fully realising it. Iqbal without a doubt is a great influence and there are other paintings which have been inspired/influenced by a sentence or two from a work here and there (but what I have read is not even a fraction of his work).
If you folks can give any directions towards writers/poets/works who deal with the superhuman, I’d be forever indebted. Many thanks.
Umer M
#6 Posted by kaami on July 14, 2006 7:45:57 am
Interesting read....
though i think that the selection from Iqbal could have been a lot better...
the piece by Ghalib is great.... hadn`t read it before except for a couplet or two... i believe Ghalib has to be one of the greatest poets who have walked the earth (of any language)... he is simply awesome
the couplet about ``sharm`` was quite nice... amazing how these people can look things in such perspectives ;)
haven`t read much from Khusro because my farsi is limited only to those words which are frequently used in urdu...
and i second mr. echoboom on his thoughts about urdu poetry.... it is truly unbelievably rich... i think probably only arabic poetry surpasses urdu poetry in grandeur.. but then my arabic is also as good as my persian
though i think that the selection from Iqbal could have been a lot better...
the piece by Ghalib is great.... hadn`t read it before except for a couplet or two... i believe Ghalib has to be one of the greatest poets who have walked the earth (of any language)... he is simply awesome
the couplet about ``sharm`` was quite nice... amazing how these people can look things in such perspectives ;)
haven`t read much from Khusro because my farsi is limited only to those words which are frequently used in urdu...
and i second mr. echoboom on his thoughts about urdu poetry.... it is truly unbelievably rich... i think probably only arabic poetry surpasses urdu poetry in grandeur.. but then my arabic is also as good as my persian
#5 Posted by Inquirer on July 14, 2006 7:17:31 am
Naqshbandi:
One of the monist Hindu Gurus has described Naqshbandis as follows:
Hosh dar dam, Nazar bar kadam, safar dar vatan, khilwat dar anjuman, Yad kard, Baazahgasht, Nigah dashat, Yaddaasht, Waqufeh zamaani, Waquf addiih, and Waqufe kalbii.
Any comments?
One of the monist Hindu Gurus has described Naqshbandis as follows:
Hosh dar dam, Nazar bar kadam, safar dar vatan, khilwat dar anjuman, Yad kard, Baazahgasht, Nigah dashat, Yaddaasht, Waqufeh zamaani, Waquf addiih, and Waqufe kalbii.
Any comments?
#4 Posted by echoboom on July 13, 2006 10:21:56 pm
This is a very yeomen exercise Naqshbandi sahib. Do not get detered even if I may come across as a bit frank sometimes.
Your first para of Iqbal`s lines need revision, I think. Some lines are missing I`ll look them up as well.
I`ll try to participate but I hesitate because it is gut wrenching work & sometimes exhausting.
Always try one at a time.
Inquirer:
Iqbal is simply urging muslims to be more dynamic in ``active`` Islam as well, besides the rituals.
Khusrau is talking about the dream he had about the ``Mairaj``--the night journey of Muhammad(pbuh). ``Raqsi-bismil`` is the ecstacy which a beloved feels when the lover gives even a fleeting glance--and ``kills`` the beloved...tarRapnay-lagnaa when wish gets fullfilled.
Urdu poetry is unbelievably as rich & daunting as farsi & arabie. No wonder the entire classical european literature , like the sciences, is a borrowing from farsi & arabie--& every one has acknowledged that and admitted that they can only aspire reach that level.
Your first para of Iqbal`s lines need revision, I think. Some lines are missing I`ll look them up as well.
I`ll try to participate but I hesitate because it is gut wrenching work & sometimes exhausting.
Always try one at a time.
Inquirer:
Iqbal is simply urging muslims to be more dynamic in ``active`` Islam as well, besides the rituals.
Khusrau is talking about the dream he had about the ``Mairaj``--the night journey of Muhammad(pbuh). ``Raqsi-bismil`` is the ecstacy which a beloved feels when the lover gives even a fleeting glance--and ``kills`` the beloved...tarRapnay-lagnaa when wish gets fullfilled.
Urdu poetry is unbelievably as rich & daunting as farsi & arabie. No wonder the entire classical european literature , like the sciences, is a borrowing from farsi & arabie--& every one has acknowledged that and admitted that they can only aspire reach that level.
#3 Posted by lajita on July 13, 2006 6:43:56 pm
lovely...we could benefit from more translations of amir khusrao and ghalib, specially for people who are`nt familiar with classical urdu or persian. good job.
#2 Posted by Inquirer on July 13, 2006 1:08:04 pm
Naqshbandi:
Interesting collection.
Iqbal`s poem is largely dated and refers to his assessments of discombobulated Muslims towards the end of the nineteenth century so they are of little interest today but the following is still valid and could help in the reorientation of followers of Islam which is sorely needed.
``namaaz-o-rozaa-o-qurbaanii-o-haj
ye sab baaqii hai tuu baaqii nahii.n hai ``
**** I interpret above as saying that in the mania for expansion of the Islamism, the Muslims have forgotten the essential nature of God which lies in acceptance of the wider mysticism nucleated into the conception of God. Of course, Iqbal had undergone so many metamorphoses that it is hard to guess what he intended. But I would like today`s Muslims to leave the ``fundamentalism`` and adopt quintessence of mysticism rather than the ritualese specified by the outdated and selfish Masjid.****
``All around I saw lovers slain*, at that place where I was last night!
God Himself was the host of that gathering inside La-Makaan**, Khusraw!
Muhammad was the light of that gathering, that place where I was last night! ``
**** From what I know about Khusro, it seems to me that above lines are expressing the disappointment with the Muslim organizations of his times. He must have rued the massacre and destruction that the Muslim rulers were indulging in the name of God, supposedly according to the directions of Mohammad. Your translation of `bismils` into `lovers` is, to say the least remarkable and needs further discussion by you.****
As for Ghalib`s poetry, you need to place more readable version. The poem does seem to contain much philosophical speculation.
Interesting collection.
Iqbal`s poem is largely dated and refers to his assessments of discombobulated Muslims towards the end of the nineteenth century so they are of little interest today but the following is still valid and could help in the reorientation of followers of Islam which is sorely needed.
``namaaz-o-rozaa-o-qurbaanii-o-haj
ye sab baaqii hai tuu baaqii nahii.n hai ``
**** I interpret above as saying that in the mania for expansion of the Islamism, the Muslims have forgotten the essential nature of God which lies in acceptance of the wider mysticism nucleated into the conception of God. Of course, Iqbal had undergone so many metamorphoses that it is hard to guess what he intended. But I would like today`s Muslims to leave the ``fundamentalism`` and adopt quintessence of mysticism rather than the ritualese specified by the outdated and selfish Masjid.****
``All around I saw lovers slain*, at that place where I was last night!
God Himself was the host of that gathering inside La-Makaan**, Khusraw!
Muhammad was the light of that gathering, that place where I was last night! ``
**** From what I know about Khusro, it seems to me that above lines are expressing the disappointment with the Muslim organizations of his times. He must have rued the massacre and destruction that the Muslim rulers were indulging in the name of God, supposedly according to the directions of Mohammad. Your translation of `bismils` into `lovers` is, to say the least remarkable and needs further discussion by you.****
As for Ghalib`s poetry, you need to place more readable version. The poem does seem to contain much philosophical speculation.
#1 Posted by Naqshbandi on July 13, 2006 10:47:09 am
I look forward to an interesting and informative discussion and criticism from the Chowkies!
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