Chowk Staff July 11, 2006
#618 Posted by zeemax on July 20, 2006 12:45:27 am
#608 by number
The simple answer is: He is the one who created the universe, you and me.
Number saheb, we chowkies are too far gone to be interested in simple answers. We want the tough answers. Don`t worry, we still have some grey matter left despite our various undesirable pre-dilections ...
In the words of echoboom #609 .....aap kay apnay afkaar pata krnaa chah rahay thhay. yahaaN Aap nay humaaraa hee google ....
The simple answer is: He is the one who created the universe, you and me.
Number saheb, we chowkies are too far gone to be interested in simple answers. We want the tough answers. Don`t worry, we still have some grey matter left despite our various undesirable pre-dilections ...
In the words of echoboom #609 .....aap kay apnay afkaar pata krnaa chah rahay thhay. yahaaN Aap nay humaaraa hee google ....
#617 Posted by harish_hyd on July 19, 2006 11:42:16 pm
#595 by number
Dear Nephew: I am glad that the battle (or is it war?) between uncle and nephew is over.
It would be nice to know who we are interacting with.
Uncle ji, there never was any war to begin with. You misunderstood my post and construed it to mean that we were at war, that`s all! As for me, I`m a humble code coolie, now based in Hyderabad, South India.
Dear Nephew: I am glad that the battle (or is it war?) between uncle and nephew is over.
It would be nice to know who we are interacting with.
Uncle ji, there never was any war to begin with. You misunderstood my post and construed it to mean that we were at war, that`s all! As for me, I`m a humble code coolie, now based in Hyderabad, South India.
#616 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 10:14:26 pm
The word`s most racist, most aparthied, most arrogant & the worst muslim-model.
The saudis--
The King on a string
The princes who are puppets
The Klansmen in arab robes& are busy lynching the world.
From the New Statesman
You have probably never heard of Mohammed Jameel. He is president and chief executive of the Abdul Latif Jameel Group, which in 2004 donated £5.4m to the Victoria and Albert Museum in London for a display of Islamic art. The new Jameel Gallery, dedicated to the memory of his parents, is magnificent to behold. Housing the museum`s distinguished collection of Islamic artefacts, it has to be seen to be believed. The Saudis are not renowned for being patrons of the arts, so Jameel`s generosity comes as something of a surprise.
Over the past five decades, the Saudis` interest in art (which most of them think is un-Islamic) or literature (which leaves them cold) or science and research (which they want, but think can be bought) has been marginal at best. That is not to say they aren`t exceptionally giving people - but their generosity has been expressed purely in religious terms.
During the 1970s and 1980s, the Saudis gave astronomical sums to Islamic causes. The royal family, the government and individuals helped build countless mosques, seminaries (madrasas) and Islamic universities throughout the Muslim world, as well as in Europe. The Faisal Mosque that dominates the skyline of Islamabad, the International Islamic University in Kuala Lumpur and the London Central Mosque in Regent`s Park are all products of Saudi benevolence. The money came with a string attached, however: Saudi-funded institutions had to promote a literalist version of Islam, or Wahhabism.
The cause that attracted the most funds was, unsurprisingly, mosques, followed by Islamic schools, jihad in Afghanistan, Islamic universities and professorships, and conferences on Islamic themes. The Saudis never gave money to build hospitals or modern schools, for scientific research or museums, or to eradicate poverty.
The people who benefited also followed a strict hierarchy. I call it the Saudi Sandwich: it is, in fact, a large, multi-layered club sandwich. The top layer is occupied by the Saudis themselves - Saudis tend to be most generous to other Saudis. Immediately underneath this are the Americans. The Saudis have been very partial to America, and the bulk of their funding in the past has gone to prestigious projects at prestigious institutions such as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard and the University of California, Berkeley (many Saudi ministers and businessmen studied at these institutions).
The third layer is occupied by white converts to Islam. The Saudis love converts because, as one sheikh told me, ``they demonstrate the superiority of Islam``. White converts also provide living proof that European civilisation is rotten to the core.
The fourth layer is occupied by other Arabs - because they speak Arabic. Beneath them, in strict order, come Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians, Bangladeshis and Africans. At the bottom of the sandwich are the poor Saudi Bedouins -
I have witnessed this hierarchy at work. During the 1980s and 1990s, I was involved in raising money for a number of intellectual and cultural causes. I would see a white celebrity convert walk into a Saudi sheikh`s office and walk out with millions, while British Pakistanis and Bangla deshis would be kept waiting for weeks, then sent away with peanuts.
All this changed after 9/11. Many Saudis have lost the will to make donations to Americans, and they, in turn, do not want money from the Saudis. The benefactors have
also been forced to realise that many of the mosques and semi naries they helped build are doing more harm than good - and the rage of the fanatics they have nursed and nourished is as much directed against the kingdom as it is aimed at the west.
Enter Jameel, a new kind of Saudi philanthropist. He realises that science and culture serve as much-needed bridges between Islam and the west, and his cash is reaching parts that past Saudi generosity failed to reach. Apart from the V&A gallery, he has initiated the ALJ Arab Technology Start-Up Fund through the Arab Science and Technology Foundation, and is supporting the Poverty Action Lab at MIT (where he studied civil engineering).
Mohammed Jameel is a beacon. I hope other Saudis follow his guiding light.
The Jameel Gallery of Islamic Art opens at the V&A, London SW7 (020 7942 2000), on 20 July
The saudis--
The King on a string
The princes who are puppets
The Klansmen in arab robes& are busy lynching the world.
From the New Statesman
You have probably never heard of Mohammed Jameel. He is president and chief executive of the Abdul Latif Jameel Group, which in 2004 donated £5.4m to the Victoria and Albert Museum in London for a display of Islamic art. The new Jameel Gallery, dedicated to the memory of his parents, is magnificent to behold. Housing the museum`s distinguished collection of Islamic artefacts, it has to be seen to be believed. The Saudis are not renowned for being patrons of the arts, so Jameel`s generosity comes as something of a surprise.
Over the past five decades, the Saudis` interest in art (which most of them think is un-Islamic) or literature (which leaves them cold) or science and research (which they want, but think can be bought) has been marginal at best. That is not to say they aren`t exceptionally giving people - but their generosity has been expressed purely in religious terms.
During the 1970s and 1980s, the Saudis gave astronomical sums to Islamic causes. The royal family, the government and individuals helped build countless mosques, seminaries (madrasas) and Islamic universities throughout the Muslim world, as well as in Europe. The Faisal Mosque that dominates the skyline of Islamabad, the International Islamic University in Kuala Lumpur and the London Central Mosque in Regent`s Park are all products of Saudi benevolence. The money came with a string attached, however: Saudi-funded institutions had to promote a literalist version of Islam, or Wahhabism.
The cause that attracted the most funds was, unsurprisingly, mosques, followed by Islamic schools, jihad in Afghanistan, Islamic universities and professorships, and conferences on Islamic themes. The Saudis never gave money to build hospitals or modern schools, for scientific research or museums, or to eradicate poverty.
The people who benefited also followed a strict hierarchy. I call it the Saudi Sandwich: it is, in fact, a large, multi-layered club sandwich. The top layer is occupied by the Saudis themselves - Saudis tend to be most generous to other Saudis. Immediately underneath this are the Americans. The Saudis have been very partial to America, and the bulk of their funding in the past has gone to prestigious projects at prestigious institutions such as the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, Harvard and the University of California, Berkeley (many Saudi ministers and businessmen studied at these institutions).
The third layer is occupied by white converts to Islam. The Saudis love converts because, as one sheikh told me, ``they demonstrate the superiority of Islam``. White converts also provide living proof that European civilisation is rotten to the core.
The fourth layer is occupied by other Arabs - because they speak Arabic. Beneath them, in strict order, come Pakistanis, Indians, Indonesians, Bangladeshis and Africans. At the bottom of the sandwich are the poor Saudi Bedouins -
I have witnessed this hierarchy at work. During the 1980s and 1990s, I was involved in raising money for a number of intellectual and cultural causes. I would see a white celebrity convert walk into a Saudi sheikh`s office and walk out with millions, while British Pakistanis and Bangla deshis would be kept waiting for weeks, then sent away with peanuts.
All this changed after 9/11. Many Saudis have lost the will to make donations to Americans, and they, in turn, do not want money from the Saudis. The benefactors have
also been forced to realise that many of the mosques and semi naries they helped build are doing more harm than good - and the rage of the fanatics they have nursed and nourished is as much directed against the kingdom as it is aimed at the west.
Enter Jameel, a new kind of Saudi philanthropist. He realises that science and culture serve as much-needed bridges between Islam and the west, and his cash is reaching parts that past Saudi generosity failed to reach. Apart from the V&A gallery, he has initiated the ALJ Arab Technology Start-Up Fund through the Arab Science and Technology Foundation, and is supporting the Poverty Action Lab at MIT (where he studied civil engineering).
Mohammed Jameel is a beacon. I hope other Saudis follow his guiding light.
The Jameel Gallery of Islamic Art opens at the V&A, London SW7 (020 7942 2000), on 20 July
#615 Posted by nb on July 19, 2006 8:57:16 pm
Re: # 561
Just a coinicdence that every sane person is Pakistani!
Just a coinicdence that every sane person is Pakistani!
#614 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 8:52:56 pm
alphanull:
O.K you did whet my desire here. No I never seek mystic thrills. That to me is worse than voodoo.
Thanks again for your immense help.
O.K you did whet my desire here. No I never seek mystic thrills. That to me is worse than voodoo.
Thanks again for your immense help.
#613 Posted by wiseguyin on July 19, 2006 8:12:34 pm
Re: # 605
> I am sorry that it is the only answer I have.
Duh.
You have a habit of giving wrong answers. The correct answer is: ``I am sick of all the miseries that I face as a muslim amongst kaffirs, so I am going back to pukistan.``
Sigh ..... You dissapointed me. Again.
> I am sorry that it is the only answer I have.
Duh.
You have a habit of giving wrong answers. The correct answer is: ``I am sick of all the miseries that I face as a muslim amongst kaffirs, so I am going back to pukistan.``
Sigh ..... You dissapointed me. Again.
#612 Posted by AlephNull on July 19, 2006 7:57:44 pm
echoboom #611
Granted that what you wrote was tongue-in-cheek, I’ll still say the following: The ‘concrete’ in the first book’s title is really a conflation of ‘continuous’ and ‘discrete’ – it’s also ‘concrete’ as opposed to the unrelenting pursuit of abstraction that was the hallmark (and according to some, the bane) of 20th century mathematics. That book is not really about civil engineering. Behind the friendly exterior, it’s a pursuit of mathematical totalitarianism. So-called applied, ‘practical-minded’ people loathe it. It’s a first-rate book by first-rate people. I chose the best book I know of, bar none, for someone of your background wanting to really learn about Fibonacci numbers. That is, if you are interested in more than a flimsy or cursory acquaintance and are not just looking for cheap mystical thrills.
If you truly wish to avoid mathematics that has the slightest utilitarian connection you should abandon Fibonnaci numbers forthwith – they drop very naturally out of a whole lot of practically useful stuff (for the easiest example – they figure in the analysis of Euclid’s algorithm). But really, it’s your loss.
Granted that what you wrote was tongue-in-cheek, I’ll still say the following: The ‘concrete’ in the first book’s title is really a conflation of ‘continuous’ and ‘discrete’ – it’s also ‘concrete’ as opposed to the unrelenting pursuit of abstraction that was the hallmark (and according to some, the bane) of 20th century mathematics. That book is not really about civil engineering. Behind the friendly exterior, it’s a pursuit of mathematical totalitarianism. So-called applied, ‘practical-minded’ people loathe it. It’s a first-rate book by first-rate people. I chose the best book I know of, bar none, for someone of your background wanting to really learn about Fibonacci numbers. That is, if you are interested in more than a flimsy or cursory acquaintance and are not just looking for cheap mystical thrills.
If you truly wish to avoid mathematics that has the slightest utilitarian connection you should abandon Fibonnaci numbers forthwith – they drop very naturally out of a whole lot of practically useful stuff (for the easiest example – they figure in the analysis of Euclid’s algorithm). But really, it’s your loss.
#611 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 7:07:08 pm
Alphanull:610
Thanks.
The idea is to share what some of us have gleaned, no matter how flimsy or cursory, from our readings. I for one neither have the faculties nor the inclination for the ``concrete`` side of maths. In my opinion , the moment it becomes ``useful`` it ceases to be learning.
I am more interested in the ``poetry`` or, if you will, in the ``philosophy`` of mathematics . I have no zeal for utilitarian learning--esp. the kind which has even a remote possibility of getting tainted by money.
P.S treat the above as somewhat tongue-in-cheek; but only somewhat--it has more tongue and less cheek or maybe vice-versa :)
Thanks.
The idea is to share what some of us have gleaned, no matter how flimsy or cursory, from our readings. I for one neither have the faculties nor the inclination for the ``concrete`` side of maths. In my opinion , the moment it becomes ``useful`` it ceases to be learning.
I am more interested in the ``poetry`` or, if you will, in the ``philosophy`` of mathematics . I have no zeal for utilitarian learning--esp. the kind which has even a remote possibility of getting tainted by money.
P.S treat the above as somewhat tongue-in-cheek; but only somewhat--it has more tongue and less cheek or maybe vice-versa :)
#610 Posted by AlephNull on July 19, 2006 5:42:49 pm
echobooom #598, #609 etc.
Sahib, since you periodically profess your great love of and fascination with mathematics, I suggest you get hold of this book and work through it. It will teach you a great deal about Fibonacci numbers, golden ratio, and a whole lot else, in appropriate mathematical context. It’s a demanding but enjoyable book.
If yu’re too lazy to learn real math, you might try Mario Livio’s recent The Golden Ratio. It will give you the historical context and art and architectural connections of the Golden Ratio. Its not into numerological mysticism however.
Working through either of these books makes more sense than these OT discussions on Chowk.
Sahib, since you periodically profess your great love of and fascination with mathematics, I suggest you get hold of this book and work through it. It will teach you a great deal about Fibonacci numbers, golden ratio, and a whole lot else, in appropriate mathematical context. It’s a demanding but enjoyable book.
If yu’re too lazy to learn real math, you might try Mario Livio’s recent The Golden Ratio. It will give you the historical context and art and architectural connections of the Golden Ratio. Its not into numerological mysticism however.
Working through either of these books makes more sense than these OT discussions on Chowk.
#609 Posted by echoboom on July 19, 2006 3:55:43 pm
Numberdaar sahib:
Janaab Numberdaar sahib, Hum aap sey Fibonacci sequence kay baray meiN aap kay apnay afkaar pata krnaa chah rahay thhay. yahaaN Aap nay humaaraa hee google nikal kay rakh diyaa.
bUrRay numberi niklay aap toa.
Janaab Numberdaar sahib, Hum aap sey Fibonacci sequence kay baray meiN aap kay apnay afkaar pata krnaa chah rahay thhay. yahaaN Aap nay humaaraa hee google nikal kay rakh diyaa.
bUrRay numberi niklay aap toa.
#608 Posted by number on July 19, 2006 3:46:56 pm
Re: # 596 by zeemax
Thanks again for the nice words. It is not a silly question. I did not arrive at the conclusion
mathematically. It was a simple question. Who is Allah (swt)? The simple answer is: He
is the one who created the universe, you and me.
Thanks again for the nice words. It is not a silly question. I did not arrive at the conclusion
mathematically. It was a simple question. Who is Allah (swt)? The simple answer is: He
is the one who created the universe, you and me.
#607 Posted by number on July 19, 2006 3:33:32 pm
Re: # 599 by zeemax
In response to #598 by echoboom, I have indicated in #606, how to get access to golden
rectange and golden mean. You can similarly get access to mandelbrot set.
I hope that this helps.
In response to #598 by echoboom, I have indicated in #606, how to get access to golden
rectange and golden mean. You can similarly get access to mandelbrot set.
I hope that this helps.
#606 Posted by number on July 19, 2006 3:13:51 pm
Re: # 598 by echoboom
Thanks for asking me about golden rectangle and golden mean.
Please go to google.com and search for golden rectangle. There you will find a number of
topics about golden rectangle and golden mean.
I hope that this helps.
Thanks for asking me about golden rectangle and golden mean.
Please go to google.com and search for golden rectangle. There you will find a number of
topics about golden rectangle and golden mean.
I hope that this helps.
#605 Posted by number on July 19, 2006 2:11:24 pm
Re: # 593 by wiseguyin
I am sorry that it is the only answer I have.
I am sorry that it is the only answer I have.
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