Science, Psychology and Spirituality

drsohail,
I understand your point. I just hope you don`t fall into the reductionist trap of `debunking` religious experience by linking it to brain activity (``It`s just his temporal lobe acting up!``).

By the way William James , hundred years ago, dealt with these issues in his classic ``On the Varieties of Religious Experience``.
You may also want to check out another classic. ``The Idea of the Holy`` by Rudolf Otto.

Re#22

What has poor GOD done to the mideast?

As I see it, its the greedy Semitic sons of Ismael and Issac that cant agree on how to divide land between themselves..........

The Egos of Circumcised Men on Both sides of the Jordan attached to the size of their phalluses , and who has the bigger one?

A Veritable Pissing Match, to see who can piss the most in the Holy Land!!!!

The ONLY way to stop violence in the mideast and elsewhere, is to educate children that God does not exist.

Re:19

Perhaps some of you are going....What the F**k!

I dont even have to bother reading the article....I have read all those books used as reference during my undergraduate....

The title is enough to give me enough material for a response......

Julian Jaynes is brilliant, and his book is thought provoking...Although he seems biased... as he thinks Muhammad is hallucinating (Peace be upon him) but Jesus (mayhe forever be blessed) isnt....and his reasoning for this discrepancy is slanted in favor of Christianity...although Christianity has definitely experienced a Renaissance being the older of the two religions, and Muslims have still have to arrive at the Mantra of ``God is Love``.

I dont know about Muhammad (peace be upon him) or Jesus (mayhe forever be blessed) .....but my reasoning and scholarly research tells me that the writers/compilers of Hadith were definitely on something, and the four Imams to start the four schools of Fiqah were definitely hallucinating....

but in the end.... the collective Mystic Consciousness would say

``Dont pay any attention to Us, You cant learn anything from Us, You must search and truth will find you.``

Re: # 18

Dear Khurrum...you have a valid point. I think what psychologists and neurologists are

trying to study is the relationship between human experiences and their brains. This helps

us understand and control epilepsy, diagnose mental illness such as schizophrenia and

also those creative and mystical experiences that give us profound insights about the

secrets of life. Such a study relies on quantitative and qualitative research and develops

basis for secular knowledge rather than faith based belief system. Such a knowledge

can be questioned by anyone. It is still in infancy but has great promise. Such research is

exploring the mysterious relationship between epilepsy, insanity, creativity and

spirituality from a humanistic point of view....sincerely sohail

Prayer for Peace via Playing Music~ Asim`s Method
Three times play Ravi Shankar`s Shanti Mantra.....

One time......Paul Horn`s ``Inside the Taj Mahal``, Meditation/Mantra...

One time...... Hisham Abbas`s Alasma` ul Hasna......

One time......Sarah Brightman`s......Ave Maria

One time.....Yousuf Islam`s....Salawat

One time..... Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan Sahib Murhoom`s ``Allah Hu``

Viola,
You have invoked the divine.....
He/She has been called,
given the message.....

Please help us find Peace?


Comes Answer from the divine....

Why are you praying to me? Fools!

Use your brain, and find a solution! DUH!

It is interesting to study the role of the brain in spiritual experiences. It can help you understand how the brain works. However, I don`t see how this helps in understanding the spiritual experience itself. I am sure you can also study parts of the brain that contribute to scientific and mathematical thought. That won`t help you in understanding any mathematical theorem or scientific theory.

Nice reading here....

I am so glad that you are not using double-spacing editor Khamkhwa.

Re: # 15
Dear Charlie....your letter reminded me of a short story I wrote a long time ago. You might

like it especially the last sentence of the story. sincerely sohail

DEVTA

``Devta1 has died.``
The news spread in town like wild fire. The smoke of hopelessness and uncertainty was widespread.
The people still remembered that period vividly when their days of ease felt short and their nights of misery had begun to appear unending.
When their children, strong men and the aged had started to crumble from the inside:
their hearts had saddened;
the fire in their spirits had lost is glow;
the settling ash on their bodies had reached their necks;
the fragrance from their characters had dissipated;
and their eyes had lost their lustre.
The whole town was enveloped by a cloud of gloom.
When people tried to look into the depths of their souls they saw only ashes-
Neither had they any yearning nor any dream,
And they nurtured no storm in their life’s stream,
There were no sparks, nor burning fire
Just a coat of ashes covering their entire being.
Then one day a stranger told the people that far from that town, in the foot of a hill, lived a Devta whose nearness would rekindle their torch of life.

---

1 In Hindu/Urdu it means God, a demigod, a holy man or a good man.

The people travelled hundreds of miles until they reached the foot of the hill, where the dwellers from many other towns had gathered to receive the gift of renaissance from the Devta.
The Devta was a tall, long-haired male whose face gleamed with the zest for living and whose eyes glowed with warmth. He wore a long gown, his speech was eloquent and had a rich timber to it. Devta greeted each man, woman and child with a smile, shook their hands, talked to them, embraced them and sent them back home with his blessings.
That nearness to him induced new hope, courage, strength and excitement in the people.
When the people returned to their town the ashes which had smouldered in their souls changed to embers. Each person brought with him a new desire, dream, or devotion.
In this way the ashen faces of the people slowly began to beam with life`s sheen and joy.
In the life of the people of that town the joyful days became longer and sorrowful nights shorter.
After that whenever the warmth of their soul slackened they would go to the hill and pay a visit to Devta.
Then one day came the news that Devta was dead.
Whole crowds of people went rushing to the mountain in whose bosom that Devta used to spend his days. There was no Devta to greet them, only his corpse waited for them. But before his death Devta had left a message for the people, written with his finger-tips in the moist ground. The message read: ``Every person among you is a Devta.``

Re: # 11

That`s an amazing idea. If applied psychology can invent a ``peak experience`` helmet which stimulates the spiritual lobe of the brain, every common man on earth will be upgraded to a mystic and every creative scientist, artist, scholar, philosopher, politician will be upgraded to a prophet (name it whatever you like). Imagine a world, full of extremely creative beings who, according to Maslow, will become more loving and more accepting and more spontaneous and honest and innocent.
I am wondering if psychology is being applied in the world as extensively as physics and biology or it is still passing through its infancy where theories are being developed and applications are not being thought of.


Spirituality is a built-in feature of every human being. As largely understood, spirituality has been considered an experience for which humans have to be dependent on a mentor, let it be a mystic or a prophet. In modern world, we really don`t need any prophets. It is the time that every human should try to explore the mystic/prophet inside him that makes him an independent entity not needing any guidance to explore his hidden powers and talents.

Re: # 13

Dear Paradox...thank you for adding to the dialogue. Joseph Campbell created wisdom

literature and I admire his concepts. I fully agree with your association of religions with

mythlogies and to read thier stories metaphorically. We get into problems when we read

them in a concrete way and it gets more complicated when religion joins politics.

sincerely sohail

Dr.Sohail
I really like your article. We need rational people like you. I have read the book`` CAN WE BE GOOD WITHOUT GOD``. Its an interesting book. I would also recomend the readers to read ``THE MASK OF GOD`` BY Joseph Campbell, where he describes some basic ``folk ideas`` and tells how its a common theme in most of the ancient cultures. Ideas like, life after death, virgin birth. It explains how religion evolved out of mythology and that religious concept are better understood if taken metaphorically.

Is Hell exothermic (gives off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?





The following is an actual question given on a University of
Washington chemistry mid-term exam. The answer by one student was
so ``profound`` that the professor shared it with other colleagues.
jz

Here is the ``Bonus Question`` on the exam: ``Is Hell exothermic (gives
off heat) or endothermic (absorbs heat)?``

Most of the students wrote proofs of their beliefs using Boyle`s Law
(gas cools when it expands and heats when it is compressed) or some
variant.

One student, however, wrote the following:

First, we need to know how the mass of Hell is changing in time. So
we need to know the rate at which souls are moving into Hell and the
rate at which they are leaving. I think that we can safely assume
that once a soul gets to Hell, it will not leave. Therefore, no souls
are leaving. As for how many souls are entering Hell, let`s look at
the different Religions that exist in the world today. Most of these
religions state that if you are not a member of their religion, you
will go to Hell.

Since there is more than one of these religions and since people do
not belong to more than one religion, we can project that all souls
go to Hell. With birth and death rates as they are, we can expect the
number of souls in Hell to increase exponentially. Now, we look at
the rate of change of the volume in Hell because Boyle`s Law state s
that in order for

the temperature and pressure in Hell to stay the same, the volume of
Hell has to expand proportionately as souls are added. This gives two
possibilities:

1. If Hell is expanding at a slower rate than the rate at which souls
enter Hell, then the temperature and pressure in Hell will increase
until all Hell breaks loose.

2. If Hell is expanding at a rate faster than the increase of souls
in Hell, then the temperature and pressure will drop until Hell
freezes over.

So which is it? If we accept the postulate given tome by Teresa (a
girlfriend of mine during my Freshman year) that, ``it will be a cold
day in Hell before I sleep with you``, and take into account the fact
that I slept with her last night, then number 2 must be true, and
thus I am sure that Hell is exothermic and has already frozen over.

The corollary of this theory is that since Hell has frozen over, it
follows that it is not accepting anymore souls and is therefore,
extinct...leaving only Heaven, thereby proving the existence of a
divine being which explains why, last night, Teresa kept
shouting ``Oh my God.``

THE STUDENT SCORED ``A.``

Re: # 10
Dear Charlie....you are opening up an interesting dialogue. After a human being has a

`peak experience`, he might just enjoy the peacefulness it brings but if he is a poet it might

inspire him to write a poem, if she is a scientist it might lead to a valubale discovery and if

he is a reformer he might use it to help his community. The main point is that such peak

experiences are part of our humanity and to have such experiences human beings do not

need to believe in any god or religion. Such experiences can happen to scientists, mystics,

artists but also to common people.sincerely sohail

Dr Sahib,

``Peak experiences`` in pychology, as sufis might claim them to be ``unitary experiences``, prophets can claim them to be ``Meraj``, result in extra ordinary feeling of self fulfilment. While sufis, from their ``peak experiences`` don`t try to deduce divine messages. They are only concerned with the excitement and the peace attached to the feeling, prophets claim to be getting divine instructions through it. After this experience, prophets return back to the normal state and based on their ``peak experiences``, they try to influence the world through something learnt during the experience. the point I was trying to make was that may be alongwith ``peak experience``, their is an experience of enlightenment and learning that is difficult to be understood in normal states.

Seems that modern psychology doesn`t believe that there are any extra ordinary learning involved with ``peak experiences``.

Re: # 3
Dear bjkumar....I enjoy your dry sense of humour. you might have to `pray` for them...

smiles...sohail