A Nation of Eunuchs

Re: # 123 teshah

``Devi`` is a common title equivalent to ``Ms.`` and should not be confused with goddess.

A good analysis indeed! Burke had said democracy is the most shameless thing in the world. In India it has become worse, a Eunuchcracy. Only Indian ECracy could allow a killer-dacoit, Phoolan, to become a `Devi` and get elected twice to the Lok Sabha. In a democracy one has to remain politically correct only to win votes. This the India leaders are doing. Why should they bother about any moral responsibility when the people can even vote terrorists to power.

#121 bombay, beirut - its still the same damned problem. too many mullahs running amok.

see, how quickly we have moved from bombay to beirut ........ if paris hiton and nicole get into another fight all this will be off the front page - and rightfully so ............ muslims blowing up things here and there is not really news any more .........

Re#119:
americans also control the reality. They are the New Allah.

Re: # 114

zeemax bhiya

lol.... you amaze me. are you seriously this ignorant???
the americans are making the shias kill the sunnis so the media can harp about the mission being not accomplished?
the americans want an unstable iraq because they want the oil prices to further rise up in america?
that was such a stupid post that its not even funny....
could you please slap yourself from my side?

in #117 below: The sentence ``The Israeli soldiers captured (not kidnapped) are also prisoners of war with no legal process. `` is yours, and I inadvertantly added that at the end of my response - so please ignore it and sorry for any confusion it may have caused.

zeemax #116

you write: you accept that Hazballah IS a militia BUT also ran for elections.
Hitler also came to power by running for elections. And then dismantled the democratic system. If you trust a militant party (religious, nationalist, communist, whatever) to step down from power willingly, then I have this fine ocean-front property in Kabul that to sell you.


you write MMA could have a militia if Pakistan had been under occupation Pakistan isnt under occupation (chowk rhetoric notwithstanding).

you write : Al these soldiers (i.e. hizbullah fighters) were captured in guerilla operations, and they are prisoners of war except that they are in jails like common criminals with NO legal process.
You probably have a point here (although ``common criminals`` do go through a legal process btw - but I wont split hairs). But then: If ben laden`s driver in camp gitty could challenge the US government all the way to the US Supreme Court...and win!!...what has been preventing the lebanese government from going to the World Court on this?? The Israeli soldiers captured (not kidnapped) are also prisoners of war with no legal process.

you write Do the names ``Stern Gang`` and `` Irgun Zvai Leumi`` ring a bell?.. Agreed. In fact my memory goes even further back: Do you remember the Ottoman Empire? By 1917, palestinian landlords had voluntarily sold lands under muslim rule to jewish buyers - and so 1/6th of Israel was purchased fair and square. And there were 60,000 jews living on that land, permitted entry by the ottoman empire. And that laid the foundation for Israel. Lets keep this fact, as well as the fact that Israel is an open and democratic society surrounded by primitive arab kingdoms, dictatorships, and so forth, that has been the main strength of this nation.

you write: Jews were right because they were doing it for Yahweh while the Muslims are wrong doing it for Allah i.e God of the bombers, but wait ... wasn`t Yahweh too the God of the bombers?
You are dead wrong here. Israel, like Pakistan, was won by the secular people as a practical solution to a practical problem (namely, a hostile majority - and for which european jews have a far stronger case than we pakistanis ever did, btw). And like in the case of Pakistan, the creation of Israel was in fact opposed by the religious fundamentalists. In case of Israel, their fundamentalists considered it a sacrilege of religion to drag it into politics. orthodox jews started supporting israel only after the 1967. Reality may seem strange when one is brought up to believe in fiction. But there it is.

Respectfully Submitted in the Manner of Mr. Behram. :-)

Your turn ...

#115 by tahmed32

There is only one tribe - humanity.

Is that true? I haven`t seen this point of view since the Hippies or the Rainbow Family which I hear has just been banned by Homeland Security. But even the Rainbow Family used to assemble in forests for their `Gathering of the Tribes`. Universal though, no doubt, but still `tribes`.

In any event, I`ll await your considered opinions.

#114 zeemax to hamidm: But remember that you`ll never be one of them. They`ll only remain your adopted land and you an alien on someone else`s soil. So when you cheer for the home team, ask yourself if it`s really `home`?

This I think is a very revealing remark. It represents and entire outlook on life - what i referred to below as ``muslim ummah, right or wrong`` outlook. And you see it in spades on chowk. This is nothing more than a tribal view of things. There is another way of thinking - a broader view that sees all humans as being on the same boat (or the same ``lonely planet``). This view is based on universal principles.

I think the former (tribal) is a carryover from our human (and previous to that, animal) past. The latter is what the reality, as is becoming increasingly clear. There is only one tribe - humanity. No doubt many people in every society, more so in less developed societies, dont see it that way. But are you going to let the most primitive mindsets in every society determine your own thinking. And look at things this way, and I think you will make better judgements I think.

PS: I was going to respond to your post to me, but thought this was more fundamental, since this would also help you understand where I am coming from when I respond to your post. I will get back to it a bit later now.

#113 by hamidm2

Sir, we are talking about pre-war Iraq and not the time of Karbala, nor are we talking about the Shia Sunni divide in Pakistan. When did you hear about any shrines attacked in Saddam`s time? Or even before that? He bashed his political opponents like the Kurds but no one on religious grounds.

I am not a conspiracy theorist, but neither am I a sucker for press analysis. Look we have to reach some common ground of which there`s plenty. I don`t hate the Jews or the americans or anyone else. Noone is right and noone is wrong in a war and each one has his own reasons and sound justifications for atrocities heaped on the other side. This is just a power game and I am only supporting my side. Do you fault me for doing that?

If US and Israel is your side, I`m OK with that. But remember that you`ll never be one of them. They`ll only remain your adopted land and you an alien on someone else`s soil. So when you cheer for the home team, ask yourself if it`s really `home`?

Cheers.

Re: # 104


zeemax,

..... you accuse me of `` astounding simple-mindedness and naivete`............ but then you go on to say that there was absolutely NO Shia/Sunni divide in Iraq`` and that the americans have ``been desperately trying to get a Shia/Sunni civil war going `` .........

....... i might have killed off half my brain cells with bad hooch, but as far as i recollect the shia/sunni divide in iraq has been there for the last thousand plus years since yazid slaughtered the trouble makers at karbala ........ it has always been simmering under the surface and will continue to simmer as long as there are religious establishments on both sides that are vying for temporal power .......... the tit for tat bombings and periodic slaughter of nimazis at varioius mosques in pakistan is a prime example and it is only a matter of time before the iranians try to take over kaaba - again ...........

....... as a conspiracy theorist i expect you to blame everything bad that happens anywhere in the world on the americans and the zionists, but if you and others of your ilk continue to do so you will never solve your real problem - ignorance and irrational hatred for people who have done better than you ............if the iraqis are so foolish that they can be manipulated by the americans into killing each other than they deserve to go to hell in bodybags ...........

Ref hamidm2 #91

[p.s. i am seriously considering reverting to the religion of my forefathers....]

Respected sir, you forget that ALL persons in Allah`s scorched brown earth are born Muslims and that some just don`t know it. This is why whenever someone converts to Islam, he is said to have ``reverted`` to Islam. You are stuck in what the idlee-eating code coolies know all too well and have experienced way too many times for comfort... something called an endless loop... other mortals refer to it as a vicious circle, `vicious` being the operative word here.

[-- anyone have a suggestion for a name ?.... i was considering gopinath rajgoplachari krishnaswami ....]

Does ``Masanamuthu`` have any takers? Just one name, no need for first name, middle name, etc.

[... f**k! ....... soon i will have to give up those juicy steaks that i love so much and start eating idlee and other offal ... yuck !]

With a good merlot or a burra peg of mcallen, you wouldn`t even notice the lack of tastel of idlees!

#110 zeemax: i read through your post. while i dont agree fully with it, there are some valid points you make.

btw, i didnt ``gush``, i wrote. Please take a deep breath and retain your cool when you come across something you dont agree with. Always remember: speak gently and carry a big stick (or, in case of discussions, a strong argument). :-)

I have to go now, but will get back with my response.

cheers.

#107 by tahmed32

Ok. Let`s carry it further since we`re both behaving as good boys today!

First, a bit of flip/flop from your side. First you say in para (1):

Nor, if they come to power, is there any evidence that such groups ... run for elections. And a religious group - which considers itself beholden only to a conveniently Divine Authority - can hardly be expected to run for elections.

THEN you say in para (2):

Winning seats in the parliament does not give that party the right to have its own malitia

So you accept that Hazballah IS a militia BUT also ran for elections. So your argument is invalid that a militia does not run for elections in a normal kind of democratic set-up.

Next, you say This is like saying that MMA should have its own military that takes its orders from Mullah Fazlur rehman and not from the GHQ

Absolutely correct. MMA could have a militia if Pakistan had been under occupation and GHQ couldn`t do jack *** and MMA had liberated it. By the way, who had captured Azad Kashmir for you? Wasn`t it a tribal militia with Pakistani military advisers?

Then you say: Question remain, of course: Under what circumstances were these individuals captured? What legal process, if any, is in place to process these individuals?

All these soldiers were captured in guerilla operations, and they are prisoners of war except that they are in jails like common criminals with NO legal process. The Israeli soldiers captured (not kidnapped) are also prisoners of war with no legal process. Only difference is that one is, in your words ``under some national uniform`` while the other in ordinary kaffiyehs. So in such situations prisoner exchanges are customary which Hezballah tried to enforce by capturing some Israeli soldiers which it didn`t possess.

Then you gush: one cannot claim that this is a simple one sided attack by israelis and the hizbullah are the good guys.

Tahmed ... memories are indeed short everywhere but should not be so short as to be limited to the advent of Kentucky Fried Chicken. Do the names ``Stern Gang`` and `` Irgun Zvai Leumi`` ring a bell? These were Jewish militias fighting against the British Mandate and were regularly bombing crowded market places. These same militias became the present IDF and one of the leaders of Stern Gang, Menechem Begin who had bombed the King Edward Hotel (Residence of British Mandate administrators) became no less but the prime minister!

Do you really think the Jews got Palestine behaving like boyscouts?

OR

maybe ... Jews were right because they were doing it for Yahweh while the Muslims are wrong doing it for Allah i.e God of the bombers, but wait ... wasn`t Yahweh too the God of the bombers?

Your turn ...

on #107 i realize the consistent misspelling of the word ``militia`` - that is because i didnt have my coffee yet. :-)