A Nation of Eunuchs

#99 i am not interested in your delusions. bye. :-)

zeemax #102 I am glad we agree on the facts to the extent I had stated them. And you correctly move forward to bring in related facts - here are my comments.

We agree on:

1. The Israeli-Lebanon border was quiet until Hizbullah started shelling israeli villages, and kidnapped two israeli soldiers.

Moving forward, you say However in your understanding Hizbollah should have let it be quiet and let their 9,000 soldiers kidnapped over several years by Israel rot in israeli jails. I didnt say anything about my understanding yet. But this question does raise relevant issues, as follows: Were these individuals really soldiers in the sense that they were fighting under some national uniform? Obviously not, since Hizbullah is neither the national military nor a para-military. As such, it is beholden to no one except it`s own leaders. Such armed groups are a recipe for continuing chaos and civil war in any society (as we should know from the destruction caused by the religious militias in Pakistan. Nor, if they come to power, is there any evidence that such groups hand power back to the people and run for elections. And a religious group - which considers itself beholden only to a conveniently Divine Authority - can hardly be expected to run for elections.
Question remain, of course: Under what circumstances were these individuals captured? What legal process, if any, is in place to process these individuals?

2. The Lebanese government made no effort to get Hizbullah to stop shelling or to return the kidnapped soldiers. You agreed and wrote However it is your understanding that Hizbollah is something seperate from Lebanon or its government. I don`t know how you arrived at this understanding (which quite coincidentally is also the understanding that Israel/USA portray ...) but Hizbollah are Lebanese, and have 28 seats in the parliament. Hizbollah is an inseperable wing of the Lebanese defence system who had liberated South Lebanon from Israeli occupation when noone else could.

Winning seats in the parliament does not give that party the right to have its own malitia, as discussed in 3. above. This is like saying that MMA should have its own military that takes its orders from Mullah Fazlur rehman and not from the GHQ - it is a recipe for chaos. Would you support such a group within Pakistan? Would you logically consider it to be part of the Pakistan military chain of command, or outside it?

Now, if for the sake of argument hizbullah was a part of the lebanese military - then surely this shelling of villages across the border and kidnapping of soldiers would be a serious incident. Not serious enough to call for a full scale war perhaps (although countries have gone to war for lesser reasons), but certainly one calling for retaliation. While one may legitimately question the extent of israeli reaction, one cannot claim (as our knee-jerk ``muslim ummah right or wrong`` types are claiming) that this is a simple one sided attack by israelis and the hizbullah are the good guys. What do you think of this?

Thanks though for a well written post which helped move the discussion forward rather than getting stuck at step 1 like typical chowk discussions. :-)

re#95
This is afact that inbreeding among parsis ,turns them into gays,paedophiles and other inferior people.Its a sad commentary for the great persian warrior to be firstly chucked out from their own country ,and then come begging to the subcontinent.They rightly say beggars cant be choosers.But then parsis are an endangered species any way......

Hamidm2,

Thats strange ,because when i think about a paki writing I can visualize...
an unkempt beard,an IQ less than 80,stench of unwashed clothes,hair,body....
A mind full of hate and vengance ,trying to evoke the glories of a long gone past of conquest ,brutality.....contempt for women and other minorities.
But thats normal whats pathetic is racially alignment with the invaders ,not knowing (or ignoring),that its a half blood of the same.I need not mention the other half
So insult the indian...its your other half

Regards
Nandan

A Nation of Eunuchs? or a Nation of Donkeys?
http://dawn.com/2006/07/18/int15.htm

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Marriage of donkeys to promote peace

NEW DELHI: A group of Indian villagers presided over the marriage of two donkeys at an ancient Hindu temple in southern India in a bid to promote world peace.

The wedding took place on Sunday evening in the Sri Thirumoola Natha Swamy Temple in Tamil Nadu state, the United News of India news agency reported.

The male and female donkeys were led to a colourfully decorated dias inside the temple for the ceremony attended by about 3,000 villagers, the report said.

The animals were dressed in traditional wedding finery, with the “bridegroom” sporting a traditional silk dhoti, a garment worn by Indian men loosely round the waist, and the “bride” wearing a silk jacket and sari.

The couple were garlanded by villagers amid chanting of verses from religious texts by Hindu priests before a villager tied the nuptial knot on behalf of the groom on the bride.

“Weddings” such as these are normal in parts of India’s rural heartland but are usually conducted to appease the rain god or during prayers for a bountiful crop.

But villagers said their objective on Sunday was to appease god so as to ensure peace and prosperity in the world.

Later, the “couple” were taken in procession through the village and made guests of honour at a feast in which more than 1,000 people took part.

The rituals complete, the two donkeys were donated to the temple, the report said.—AFP

#90 by hamidm2

..on the other hand, people who are supposed to be fighting for their freedom did this :
At least 48 people have been killed ... 60 injured ...attack on a market ... Mortars were fired ... 20 gunmen opened fire ...Many women and children...most of the victims ..Shia. conclusion: there is something inherently wrong with this ideology of death ..........

I can only express sympathy with your astounding simple-mindedness and naivete`. It also saddens me to see how facts are conveniently ignored or twisted to fit the most suitable explanation ... as expressed in your conclusion ....

My friend, USA had been desperately trying to get a Shia/Sunni civil war going since a couple of years. There was absolutely NO Shia/Sunni divide in Iraq, or currently Syria for example. Baathists are secular. Where did it suddenly come from?

You would recall on several previous occasions, attacks on Shia/Sunni shrines and funeral processions etc had elicited statements of solidarity from both communities` leaders who went to great lengths to dispel any notions of a civil war. Even the attack on the Imam Mehdi Golden shrine did not provoke a civil war when americans were constantly talking about one in the media, which prompted Moqtada al-Sadr to remark ``My friends, whether we`re having a civil war or not, kindly stay out of it.``

The truth is US cannot exit Iraq unless and until there`s a civil war there. Otherwise they`ll just be replacing Saddam with a coalition of hardline Islamists, both Shia and Sunni.

But I understand your simple-mindedness. You would`t want to lose your daily latte` at starbucks and the lectures on how to make better widgets, or do you? So you`ll believe anything, no matter how ridiculous, as long as it ensures your unlimited supply of the foregoing. Not only that, but you will espouse that there is something inherently wrong with this ideology of death .......... with the further proviso that killings by Islamists are repugnant and immoral, while those by the US are moral and upright.

Death is just that. It`s the same feeling to the victim whether delivered with a suicide belt or through a shiny new F-16 in $ 30,000 standard issue gear.

Cheers.

...#102...

You can also substitute `kidnapped` with `captured`. Terminology is important in understanding the issue because soldiers at war are not kidnapped, they are captured.

#85 by tahmed32

You said: ``Are these the facts as you understand them also?``

1. The Israeli-Lebanon border was quiet until Hizbullah started shelling israeli villages, and kidnapped two israeli soldiers.

Agreed. However in your understanding Hizbollah should have let it be quiet and let their 9,000 soldiers kidnapped over several years by Israel rot in israeli jails. That`s not my understanding.

2. The Lebanese government made no effort to get Hizbullah to stop shelling or to return the kidnapped soldiers..

Agreed too. However it is your understanding that Hizbollah is something seperate from Lebanon or its government. I don`t know how you arrived at this understanding (which quite coincidentally is also the understanding that Israel/USA portray ...) but Hizbollah are Lebanese, and have 28 seats in the parliament. Hizbollah is an inseperable wing of the Lebanese defence system who had liberated South Lebanon from Israeli occupation when noone else could. Even now, when Israel tried to enter Lebanese territory by a few yards their first tank was blown up and 4 soldiers killed. That is why they are bombing infrastructure and killing civilians from the air because they can`t get Hizbollah, but what they CAN do is roll back Lebanon`s reconstruction which it had achieved with great difficulty in 20 years after a previous 20 years of war. That`s what`s happening.

Hizbollah had tried to force a prisoner exchange which has occured countless times before. But Israel/US have different designs this time with 130,000 US soldiers parked in Iraq.

I hope your understanding is clearer now ...

In Gujarati there is an expression which basically says that paap (sin) of a person or people fills a clay vessel like ``matka`` (ghaDo in Gujarati using ITRANS notation). Sooner or later a person does too many paaps and then this ghaDo breaks. The idea this expresses is that what goes around comes around but not in the fashion of boomerang but in the fashion of a bank account in which some money is there. You start spending savings and immediately you are not in trouble but you are in trouble when you run out of your savings. At that point ghaDo full of sin cracks, bringing all the shitload of past sins drenching the sinner with his own shit. Victims snap and bring all hell unleashed on the sinner. I do not think Indians are eunuchs. They certainly wait until our enemies run out of all remaining goodwill.

It is important to radically eliminate Islam which most cynical religioun in memory. Europe understood this during crusades. True task of crusades should not be considered finished until this evil religion is totally eliminated and all romanticism associated with their past is clearly shown as accidental or in spite of it.

#96 by behram1

No trains for a week or so, would lead to so many squatters on those railroad tracks. Have you figured out the cost of cleaning up the odors?

Yaar, it isn`t going to cost anything at all. The Indian government spends lakhs of rupees feeding and housing Paki prisoners (there are hundreds of them) in jails, so we expect them to earn it.

#98

{I must say I am really sad about Beirut.}

Now look, this is what the Jehadis have made of Muslims. The price of two soldiers cannot be 100 Civilians.

But nobody is speaking for Lebanon. Because, talking in favour of Muslims these days means backing Terrorism.

Whether you agree with it or not, these so-called Defenders of Faith have made all Muslims terrorists and nobody is with them.

#97 hamidm: ``Visit Beirut! See our Brand-New Ruins Completed only Yesterday!!``

I must say I am really sad about Beirut. It used to be the ``Paris of the East`` - the banking capital, place for international spies to hang out, place where you could ski on the mountain slopes in the morning and water ski in the mediterranean in the evening. And some of the prettiest girsl anywhere (as I discovered in school, when I received a booklet from the lebanese embassy which i requested as part of my collection of national propaganda provided by various embassies on request).

anyway...all gone... replaced by these goddam hezbollah apes!! I get really mad when i think of what they have done to this place with their damned politics.

Re: # 96

behram,

...... i must admit i didn`t think about that particular side effect ......... but in case our indian friends are offended by this heartless banter, i would like to point out that i just saw a 3 minute clip on cnn making fun of tourists going to lebanon ...... it had quips like `` why go to see ancient ruins, when you can see ones that were made just today`` and then showed a clip of demolished buildings in beirut .......... the sooner we rid the planet of humans the better off the rest of the creatures will be ...........

Re: # 95 by hamidm2 on July 17, 2006 7:36pm PT

Hamid:

Are you kidding? No trains for a week or so, would lead to so many squatters on those railroad tracks. Have you figured out the cost of cleaning up the odors?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 94

tahmed,

...... just to prove that i look at all sides of the argument, let me point out that 10-15 people a day die in accidents on the bombay trains every day - that is about 3-5000 a year ......... so the indians can recover the loss of 200 if they shut down the train for a week or so ....... just a thought ....

hamidm: shouldnt you be going home now? what happens if the missus finds out that your ``hi-priority project`` is talking to yourself on chowk!!

Missing in Action: Zeemax

Last seen wearing a mao-jacket, carrying The Complete Works of Karl Marx, walking briskly in the direction away from the Township of RealityVille.

If found, please return to Chowk.