Escalation of Hostilities in Middle East

There is no need for a cease fire. Muslims are cowards. Where is your bravery now? Stand up and fight the evil Joooo. Instead, the brave Ghazis are pissing in their pants and begging the world to come and save them. Where is your valour and your 1 Ghazi equals 10 Kaffir equation.

Israel should wipe out the Hizb rats. Then Lebanon can will be truly liberated. As long as these hizbollah goondas live in lebanon there can be no ever lasting peace. Just a fake and a temporary one.

The World opinion strongly favours Israel. After 9/11 even the Western World is now fully awake to Leftist + Islamic propaganda. Most westerners now see Islam as fascism and nothing else. European Govts will soon catch up with that sentiment.

krishna_abcd
Here`s something you should pass on to the FBI or your neighborhood vigilance squad -
In my considered opinion, George Bush is infinitely more evil than Osama.
So there!

abcd writes <<< I saw in another post how you were explaining to someone how Islam is the best thing in the world because it creates a great society. >>>

A straw-man fallacy, when unable to deal with what is being argued against, the person invents a ``straw man``- a totally detached scenario, detached from the discussion from the issue and any and every context, showing that he has been completely stumped by what is being discussed. He might call me an idiot but every dimwit argument he has brought forth has been dismantled, and shown to be either juvenile, borrowed and illegally/illogically applied or overused. Create phantoms and fight against them for in the ``real`` world, Mr. abcd you ``intelligence`` (the lack thereof) does not stand a chance.

abcd writes <<< For Serbia, I never heard a peep from any Muslim.

So I do not need a statistical survey. >>>

To make a scientific conclusion you do need a scientific sample not a casual glance based upon your prejudice and making the same argument that Republicans make against Democrats using the same situation, an overused, ill thought out argument of the tu quoque variety. What the TV presents is no measure of ``reality``, it is a matter of what happens to be on their agenda. I didn`t see much coverage or condemnation when the Bosnia massacre of Muslims was going on either, even in Muslim lands, does that ``prove`` that Muslims were cheering it on? The direction of determination goes from the media to public opinion, which contours it, especially in the West and not the other way around. The media does not reflect ``public opinion``. And why should Muslims go out of their way to protest invasion of a country that had been massacring them a few years back? Does it make any sense. Will the Hindu public take to the streets to protest invasion by a third country of Pakistan, if the Pakistanis had run all over India slaughtering Hindus? Get a grip on reality.

#668 Ajeya

[ if you have to read that same boring stuff ad nauseam and have to stand up and sit down five times a day that`s fine, but quit shouting, will you?]

Quit shouting? What do you expect the guy to do - actually work for a living? Keep on hoping.

The track record is impeccable so far. The only ``accomplishment`` the Pakistanis appear to have is how to scare Uncle Sam by shouting ``the Mullahs are coming....`` and grabbing loads of dough - while keeping the same mullahs and their ginned-up boys handy as useful tools to be brought up sooner or later.

Pakistani fauzis are the tops, of course - they have mastered the art of mooching off a whole nation - in perpetuity.

Pakistani ``intellectuals`` - when you are done laughing, just call them cork-less!

The progeny of Jinnah - what a bunch of characters!

Shame? What shame?!

Look ma! Ye umm-maah....uff uie maa!!!

#667 by masadi


[Firstly such a sampling, if what you say is true and you did indeed survey ALL newspapers in arab and Muslim lands and found no mention of it, which I find highly unlikely and quite impossible, would still me unscientific, and that is because the newspapers in those lands do not reflect the profile or the views of the masses- unlike the war on iraq in which actual public surveys have been carried out. ]

I do not have to do such a sampling. Even if you watch TV once in a while, you hear the Muslims screaming day in and day out about Iraq all over the world. It has been difficult to escape, especially when the war started. For Serbia, I never heard a peep from any Muslim.

So I do not need a statistical survey.



[Second, whereas Iraq and Afghanistan are quite familiar to the public in Pakistan, a land like Bosnia or Serbia is quite distant and unfamiliar, which can be another reason. How many stories do you find in the US media about geographical locations in which wars are going on, many in Africa, where the US government has little interest and public opinion is non existent? ]

Iraq is unfamiliar enough to many people as well. Muslims only take notice when their Mullahs start screaming every friday about how some Muslim is being oppressed somewhere somehow. That`s how it spreads. For a Indonesian peasant, Bosnia and Iraq are both very far away. Until the Ummah takes notice.


[So like I suggested to your other friend on the other thread, you have no clothes on, so cover your shame and run along.]

You have the attitude down pat - with all this ``run along``, ``cover your shame`` stuff, but you are very much behind on substance.

You may not realize it, but you are an idiot. On almost every argument, you are demonstrably wrong, although you write volumes about every Islamic issue under the sun. I saw in another post how you were explaining to someone how Islam is the best thing in the world because it creates a great society. Have you ever paused to think that there might be people who are NOT interested in Islamic laws for their society? Who are just fine with the High Court and the Supreme court and democracy? To whom religion means something spiritual? And in any case, have you noticed how Islamic societies are behind everybody else everywhere?

What is it that made you guys this way? Reading that stupid stuff day in and day out, extracting all kinds of quantum physics formulas out of it - what`s wrong with you? Why can`t you just stop and think? I mean, if you have to read that same boring stuff ad nauseam and have to stand up and sit down five times a day that`s fine, but quit shouting, will you?

krishna_abcd <<< There was nothing in the Muslim world when the US attacked Serbia without UN sanctions.

NOW WHY IS THAT NOT GOOD ENOUGH PROOF? >>>>

Firstly such a sampling, if what you say is true and you did indeed survey ALL newspapers in arab and Muslim lands and found no mention of it, which I find highly unlikely and quite impossible, would still me unscientific, and that is because the newspapers in those lands do not reflect the profile or the views of the masses- unlike the war on iraq in which actual public surveys have been carried out.

Second, whereas Iraq and Afghanistan are quite familiar to the public in Pakistan, a land like Bosnia or Serbia is quite distant and unfamiliar, which can be another reason. How many stories do you find in the US media about geographical locations in which wars are going on, many in Africa, where the US government has little interest and public opinion is non existent?

So like I suggested to your other friend on the other thread, you have no clothes on, so cover your shame and run along.

#664 Ajeya

[We are not debating policies of governments here. American policy may have been wrong. Their invasion of Iraq might have been wrong. But they were not targeting civilians when they invaded Iraq. The hugely overwhelming majority of the civilians killed in Iraq WAS DONE BY THE INSURGENTS - a hodge-podge alliance of Baathists and foriegn fighters.]

Well said! Even though it is most likely wasted effort on the hopelessly prejudiced Pakistanis!

#661 by soysauce


[You sound like a cyber jihadi.
Instead of sitting in front of the monitor hoping that one set of people finish off another set,...]


Because I hope that the Israeli finish off the Hezbollah therefore I am a cyber-jehadi?


[...or that the FBI comes after someone whose opinions you don`t value,...]


No.

There is a fight going on in this world today. There is the Al-Quaeda and the Islamists onone side. And there is the US (with its often unjust foreign policy) and Humanity on the other side.

By your own statements, you have drawn an equivalence between Al-Quaeda and the US Government.

So you ARE on the side of Al-Quaeda and the ISlamists. Other than rooting for them, you might be aiding and abetting them - financially and otherwise.

So it is in MY interest, and the FBI`s, as well as all of Humanity`s, that FBI pay you a visit.

As simple as that.



[...have you considered doing something worthwhile with your life?]


``Worthwhile`` - by your difinition? That would mean joining the jehadis.

I think you and the Jehadis can do without me.

Thanks, but I`ll pass.

#658 by soysauce

[Thanks for the help but your thought experiment is helpful only to illustrate the point that you see things in black and white - there is an organized army and then there are the terrorists - the former are the good guys and the latter the bad guys, etc. etc.. ]

Organized army, terrorists..... that was NOT my point at all. The point is about morality - not whether you are organized or big in size.


[If you rephrased the question and ask ``could you imagine a village full of uninvolved civilians as collateral damage`` the answer i suspect would be ``yes`` from all sides. In this sense there`s no distinction. ]

This is where lefties lose out in the argument. Collateral damage is when you are trying to kill ONLY the armed combatants, but other people ALSO get hurt in the process because the terrorists are using them as cover.

The terrorists, on the other hand, are often trying to kill ONLY civilians.

See the difference? No?



[If you ask was it wrong of one sovereign nation, iraq, to invade another sovereign nation, kuwait, take it over and install a friendly government, the answer from americans would be yes, it was wrong and unacceptable. What should be done to them? Bomb them back a few centuries. If you ask the same question with iraq replaced by the US and kuwait by Iraq, americans would have no problems with that. ]

We are not debating policies of governments here. American policy may have been wrong. Their invasion of Iraq might have been wrong. But they were not targeting civilians when they invaded Iraq. The hugely overwhelming majority of the civilians killed in Iraq WAS DONE BY THE INSURGENTS - a hodge-podge alliance of Baathists and foriegn fighters.



[People in general see themselves as good and moral and it`s the others who are different who are awful and wicked. It`s true of the israelis as it is of the hizbullah. ]

This is irrelevant to this argument.

#662 by masadi

[Really, where is your survey to prove that. Once again a tu quoque to justify barbarism. The Republicans on Fox have used the exact same arguments against anti-war democrats. It is an overused abused bs argument.]

There are millions of articles in the press, TV interviews, talk shows, protests, public outcries - you name it - amongst the Muslims the world over about Iraq.

There was nothing in the Muslim world when the US attacked Serbia without UN sanctions.

NOW WHY IS THAT NOT GOOD ENOUGH PROOF?

HUH?

arjun writes <<< Muslims were ok with the US attacking serbia >>>

Really, where is your survey to prove that. Once again a tu quoque to justify barbarism. The Republicans on Fox have used the exact same arguments against anti-war democrats. It is an overused abused bs argument.

#657
I missed this gem:
By your earlier logic, you are saying that Al Quaeda is not guilty of anything, or at the most as guilty as anybody else, like the US or Britain. I hope FBI finds out where you live and examine your life in detail.

By the way, are you from Tamil Nadu? (just curious)

You sound like a cyber jihadi.
Instead of sitting in front of the monitor hoping that one set of people finish off another set, or that the FBI comes after someone whose opinions you don`t value, have you considered doing something worthwhile with your life?

#659 huh? i said people in general don`t see their own actions as bad. True of muslims, hindus, etc.. Atheists may be an exception since they have their own conscience to deal with, not some phantom entity like god...

#658 by soysauce on July 28, 2006 11:16am PT

Muslims were ok with the US attacking serbia, a country that posed less of a threat than Iraq, without a UN resolution...

#657
Thanks for the help but your thought experiment is helpful only to illustrate the point that you see things in black and white - there is an organized army and then there are the terrorists - the former are the good guys and the latter the bad guys, etc. etc..
If you rephrased the question and ask ``could you imagine a village full of uninvolved civilians as collateral damage`` the answer i suspect would be ``yes`` from all sides. In this sense there`s no distinction.
If you ask was it wrong of one sovereign nation, iraq, to invade another sovereign nation, kuwait, take it over and install a friendly government, the answer from americans would be yes, it was wrong and unacceptable. What should be done to them? Bomb them back a few centuries. If you ask the same question with iraq replaced by the US and kuwait by Iraq, americans would have no problems with that.
People in general see themselves as good and moral and it`s the others who are different who are awful and wicked. It`s true of the israelis as it is of the hizbullah.