Escalation of Hostilities in Middle East

Re: # 512

This link is not working. Can you paste the website?

Thanks,

#495 by bulleya
“in the recent history of the world, there has only been one guerilla group that has been defeated by an organized army.”

That is not true my friend.. Show me one guerilla group that won without an outside state help barring perhaps Cuba… though that too may be questionable.

“afghanistan, vietnam, chechnya, south america, kashmir, bangladesh, iraq, sri lanka, kurds, etc. etc.”

Afghanistan= Pakistan and US help
Vietnam= SU and China help
Kashmir=undecided but they wouldn’t have anything w/o Pakistan’s help
Bangladesh=So obviously Indian help
Srilanks= stalemate w/o India’s support
Iraq= no clear victory yet.
Kurd=what have they won?

Show me one South American country where guerilla groups won barring as I said, Cuba.

Re: # 501

zeemax,

.......... look, inspite of my seemingly heartless and callous remarks i feel terrible about the devastation and the killing of innocent civilians in lebanon .......... however, in my opinion israel is doing us all a favor by taking on islamists who are a much bigger threat to muslims than to the israelis ............

......... there are always two points of view to any issue and until and unless the two parties agree tonegotiate in good faith nothing can be resolved ............ i think this exchange of letters between an israeli and a lebanese describes the two positions very well

the other point of view


however the israeli sums it up for all of us :

Israel cannot be blamed for the inability of Lebanon to control Hezbollah or even to strengthen its own army. It is in your hands to find a way to control your own population; not doing so will always be the opening for such tragic instability for us all.

The destruction of Israel will not happen. What worries me about Hezbollah, Hamas and al-Qaeda etc is that they believe their actions will bring about the end of the State of Israel, and therefore any amount of pain and suffering is justified.

p.s. i find your alliance with a flaming jihadi like echoboom very distressing - these are the kind of people who troll the mosques, recruiting disenchanted young men as suicide bombers or worse ............. beware and protect your children from their dark shadow .....

aangaara #508 please dont scare echosqueek....he wets his shalwar at the very thought of a dog.

aangaara:
There was no point for me to reply to Zeemax after what he said. tahmed on the other hand offered some sign of redemption--alas alas.

and do you think you qualified for a response? I do not think you are worth it.

No more cinderella!

aangaara #507 That was funny. Although I am afraid it may be a bit too subtle for these armchair jehadis on chowk. :-)

Re: # 502


//I certainly is a dog`s life//


thats why all i hear in ur posts is woof! woof! lol

shehrbano said

//I gave tahmed an opportunity to show ``character`` but he disappointed me.//

poor tahmed he should have followed the example of the true chowkie muslim jihadi hazrat zeemax pbuh. zeemax nay #345 may kaha..

//As for bicthes like sherbano, you can have them as many times as you want.//

shehrbano behen, why are you listening to ``rational muslim`` i.e. oxymorons like tahmed? he is blinded by the western standards of compassion......... but you too are blinded by these same inhuman standards, if you judge the current israeli onslaught by the standards set by the holy prophet while he was treating the jews of banu quraiza. you will find that these israelis are pansies and softhearted fools. so be happy and wait till the ummah gets powerful enough to chop the head off each jewish man and sell their daughters and wives into sexual slavery.... and that will be the day when islam will retain its former glory... insha-allah.

Further to Bulleyas` Demographic analysis:
Please consider this factor as well....and this is just the tip of the proverbial Niceberg.

Time for tahmed32 & hamidm2, the outed ahmedis, to clutch at their hearts.

---

Number of Jewish Women Embracing Islam to Double in 2006
14:30 Jul 25, `06 / 29 Tammuz 5766

(IsraelNN.com) The number of Jewish women converting to Islam and marrying Muslim men is expected to double this year.

According to Israel`s population registry, an average of 35 women have converted each year, but so far, in the first half of 2006, 42 women have converted.

The conversions are carried out at Islamic Sharia Courts. Unlike the lengthy study requirements and proceedings necessary to convert to Judaism in Israel, converting to Islam is a very short ordeal, entailing only declaring one`s wishes to become a Muslim before the court.

contd...#500/501.....

Why I keep adding to that post is because I know, somewhere in your being, you have a conscience, buried under a lot of widgets. I hope some day you`ll grope under the widgets and recover that conscience. Because if you don`t, your life would have been just another one, like a shooting star that went down in-vain, pointless, and wasted.

(I did get up from the other side of the bed this morning ... just like you advised)

#463 by masadi

I think you are just getting emotional over some of Hamid’s remarks.
A few things Hamid says need serious and rational consideration.

In fact, you and Hamid present two difficult thoughts and I will try to do some balancing act. I also talked abt a liberal response to zeemax’s posts, I am still working on it with some of my liberal friends in Pakistan. I hope that a line of action would emerge abt the current crisis in the Middle East.

The situation does present a dilemma for the liberals in Pakistan and the Middle East. Despite our support for the Arab struggle, could we possibly support two religious/sectarian and fanatic organizations currently at the forefront of this struggle?

Looking at strictly from the Pakistani pov, any victory by Hamas or the Hezbollah would strengthen the religious fanatics and their fellow travelers in Pakistan and in the ME. It is something that we don’t look forward to dealing with again and again in Pakistan or in the Middle East. Pakistan has gone thru worst kind of religious political oppression and it is still reeling under the fanaticism. There have been some positive moves in reducing the fanatics influence over the Pakistan state and naturally, liberals in that country would like to maintain that pace and momentum.

This is an area that where I agree with Hamid and feel that Arab fanatic’s victory would influence the political process in Pakistan. We sure wouldn’t like mullah Fazal or Qazi Hussain to lead Pakistan in the near or distant future. We have fought with them and their allies in the streets in our youth and sure wouldn’t like to do that allover again. They are simply not acceptable if Pakistan and Pakistanis have to make some progress in future. We understand that they are a part of the political process in Pakistan but we also know that they have always been and would always in future be the first ones to support the folding of the political process in Pakistan. Someone on this board talked abt the self-interest and that is where it kicks in.

Coming back to the situation at hand, we sure don’t want Arabs humiliated again but at this time we simply cannot support the religious/sectarian leadership that is leading the fight. Some have suggested that the best course would be to stay quiet and ride the current crisis out, and then see where the chips fall. This seems like an opportunistic position. What is a prudent position to take?

My suggestion to friends back home was that we highlight the Israeli atrocities in the area but also point out that both Hamas and Hezbollah are incapable of providing leadership to the Arabs and Palestinians and would eventually fold under pressure and leave the Palestinian in worse situation. This seems like an obvious approach but there are still many problems with this approach.

The US is helping Pakistan in formulating a liberal and progressive path. US may be doing that for its own national interests but that does help the liberal elements in Pakistan. While we may be wary of the US intentions in the area, we do feel that in the long run the position that the US has taken in Pakistan would benefit the liberal forces. The US support in Pakistan becomes important when we consider that Pakistan is surrounded by two fanatic influenced states (Iran and Afghanistan) and one India, which is almost at the brink of extreme nationalism or jingoism.

In triangulating the problem at hand, we need to do lots of rational thinking and one of the rational acts is not to give in to the religious leadership in the ME.

PS.
I hope instead of being frustrated by Hamid, you would try to consider his perspective when you think of rational approach to the problem. You preach rationality and it is time to practice that too.

hamidm: dont worry about armchair jehadis like zeemax and echosqueek and masadi. the armchair hindutvas have no problem putting them in their place. just sit back, relax, and enjoy the Battle of the Armchair Warriors.

Good going Zeemax:
That zionist thing was just to bring home the Point. They could be called Zionosites. Putting labels & names, like al-quaeda, is the most potent weapon with the media today.

Oh!
ahmedis do claim to be ``muslims`` so it is a no-brainer.
It is nice to see them outed. Now everything makes sense. The canines from the cantonements belong nowhere:neither at ghat nor at ghar.

I certainly is a dog`s life!

In the meantime an encore is due:

Many of Dauod`s Muslim friends wear hijab, an Islamic head scarf. Wearing hijab is accepted, respected and even sometimes encouraged, she said.

Dauod noted. Arabic, Farsi and Chinese are among the most critical languages students are being encouraged to learn.

`` miray maula bulaa lo Rabvaa mujhhay
Miray Aquaa bulaa loa USA mujhhay``...chant of the church-of-the-latter-day-taints.

contd...#500.....

To add, I admired your wit, and sense of humor. I went back and read all your Allah/Gabby dialogues. I even suggested to you in a previous post on some board that you should take over from where Art Buchwald left. I never even cared when you made fun of old Mo ... these are opinions and I have no beef with that.

But supporting bombing & massacre of civilians ... that is just too much. I`m sorry.

#498 by hamidm2

Hamidm, you know I always respected you, but I must admit I was totally devastated when you supported bombing of innocent civilians i.e. little girls writing messages on bombs, as long as in your words these were delivered to the correct adrresses. You know where those bombs were going. It also said so in the caption. These were headed towards civilians.

At that point I knew you really are not a humanist, but something quite else ... I just stated the first thought that came to my mind, quite hastefully I admit, but certainly no friend of Muslims, regardless of whether these are innocent civilians dressed in jeans and with kids going to school ... just like everyone else.

I do not have anything against ahmedis ... BTW.

#496 by echoboom

...calling Israeli is admitting an Israel....

Yes, good point. But I don`t want to bring emotions into it. Besides, there are more zionists in USA than there are in Israel. In any case, I don`t see Israel being in existance for too long now.

...Once sunni soldiers from these countries meet their shia brethren all will return, and ``seen with my own eyes`` witnessing, the love there is in lebanon between sunni & Shia....

Excellent point again. I think this is quite a turning point, and while the *zionists* bet everything on playing up the Shia/Sunni divide first in Iraq and then Lebanon, thinking that Lebanon`s non-Shia populace will turn against the Hazb for bringing this misery upon them, exactly the opposite has happened and even the people who didn`t support them earlier, are fully pro-Hazb now, including the Lebanese Prime Minister (re his open talk during Rome press conference today).