Escalation of Hostilities in Middle East

Zeema said:
Yaar Hamidm .. Kashmir is NOT our war because Kashmir was CEDED legally to India when YOUR army tried to play tricks in return for India`s doing the same thing on Junagadh and Hyderabad ....

Op Gulmarg (tribal invasion of Kashmir): 22 Oct, 1947
Op Polo (Indian ``police action`` against Hyderabad): September 12, 1948
Indian Army moves into Junagadh: November 9, 1947

#568 by echoboom

There is none more passionate than a ``liberal`` wronged or scorned.

``hUm ney jiss tarah tujhhay chhorRaa hai, hUm jaantay haiN``.

Echoboom, we have buried our cherished Prince of liberal idealism with tears of blood, six feet down under, and shoveled tons of earth on it, with our own hands.

But few will understand that. As stated in bold letters above ... sirf, ``Hum jaantay haiN.``

guess who else believed in collective security for muslims and injustice in the m.e. would lead to war in the islamic world. hint: islamic world has not produced many like him in recent times:

Duncan Hooper, correspondent of Reuter interviewed Jinnah today. Answering a question about Pakistan`s attitude towards the partition plan for Palestine, Jinnah stated: ``The leader of our delegation to the UNO, Sir Mohammad Zafrullah Khan, has clearly defined out position regarding the latest developments in Palestine and I do still hope that the partition plan will be rejected, otherwise it is bound to be the gravest disaster and unprecendented conflict, not only between the Arabs and the authority that would undertake to enforce the partition plan, but the entire Muslim world will revolt against such a decision which cannot be supported historically, politically or morally.``

Zeemax; HP
``Voh khwaab suhaana toot gaya``

That was the dream of the second generation Pakistanis like me which was blown to smithereens. I had two meetings with ZAB alongwith my Palestinian friends & joined his party at JA Rahim`s house as one of the very first few registrants.

and HP , I cannot recall the euphoria after meeting Rasool Bux Talpur and Qazi Abid. Sindh still is our thinking crucible left after Bangladesh.

We saw salvation then after Faiz had announced `` Chalay chalo kay voh manzil abhhee naheeN aaee``--Continue on the trail, that we have yet to reach that destination.

I am reluctanly opening these wounds for exhibition here. There are many more & I`ll desist.

So who let us down?

Do I have to write it down?
There is none more passionate than a ``liberal`` wronged or scorned.

``hUm ney jiss tarah tujhhay chhorRaa hai, hUm jaantay haiN``.

HP in #504, writes <<< #463 by masadi

I think you are just getting emotional over some of Hamid’s remarks.
A few things Hamid says need serious and rational consideration. >>>

Nothing emotional in my post, just trying to explain to him that his comments on people being vermin flow easily because he can say them without experiencing what those people are going through because of Israeli barbarism. Nothing that he says deserves rational consideration, he merely parrots the official Israeli and adminstration positions, even to the dot, which should be considered plagirism since he doesn`t acknowledge this borrowing.

HP writes <<< The situation does present a dilemma for the liberals in Pakistan and the Middle East. Despite our support for the Arab struggle, could we possibly support two religious/sectarian and fanatic organizations currently at the forefront of this struggle? >>>

As we know and you have agreed, those are products of Israeli manipulation and the situation that predates both those organizations. Describing them as fanatic organizations just because of label is also not justified. They will blend away once the conflict is resolved, the reason for their existence will vanish, they will exist and fluorish when the civil society is destroyed like it was in Afghanistan and as it is being done by Israel in Lebanon and was done in Palestine. Hamid does not want a resolution of the problem, he wants US/Israel overlordship which will ensure that fanatacism fluorishes. Why you side with him on the issue is not because of any rationality that he is presenting but because of your dislike for religion, though using a broad brush to paint religion and Islam in this fashion is also not justified.

HP writes <<< We sure wouldn’t like mullah Fazal or Qazi Hussain to lead Pakistan in the near or distant future. We have fought with them and their allies in the streets in our youth and sure wouldn’t like to do that allover again. They are simply not acceptable if Pakistan and Pakistanis have to make some progress in future >>>

Neither would I, their wrath is directed more against Muslims that might differ from their narrow understanding of ``Islam`` moreso than any liberals, and I have witnessed their wrath firsthand. What you are missing in this is the ``big`` picture, these forces got strenghtened by the military institution in Pakistan when it was in the intererst of the Americans that the military in Pakistan behave in that fashion, now you think that the major ``cause`` of this problem, the Americans by fact or proxy, are going to solve this issue for the benefit of Pakistan? They will never solve it when it is to their advantage to keep this farcial ``war on terror`` going. You are going down the wrong path my friend. America has always led the third world into one catastrophy after another, it will do nothing to fix it and you cannot form a bond with dictators like Musharraf, kept in place due to American geostrategy, to push a ``liberal`` agenda. That is just totally inconsistent and consistency is a major principle in rationality, which you are asking me to practice, and I have been in all my posts.

Tahmed cries crocodile tears about love for Pakistan and Muslims, while calling for US dictatorship in that area, just like the crocodile tears Rice is crying in Lebanon even as she does not ask for a ceasefire or the crocodile tears that the Neo Cons were crying in their ``care`` for the Iraqis as pretext for the war in which total barbarism is going on as we speak. You talk about rationality, look at their statements, calls for a ceasefire are brushed aside in favor of a ``substantive ceasefire`` by which they mean war until the enemy is defeated. Well, that my friends is called surrender not a ceasefire. You can describe a sh*t pile as chocolate cake but it doesn`t make it so.

Whoever opposes the fasist agend of America in the third world, which considers the vast majority of human beings on earth, even their own people as vermin and works for power to the people while maintianing principles of justice and rationality, is my friend, I don`t care what label he or she carries. You are a smart person, don`t let prejudice guide attribution of blame and decisions regarding justice.

HP sahib, you are choosing the wrong side in this conflict, the side of fascism which will never promote a liberal agenda. The US will keep the rest of the thrid world in pseudo slavery, making pacts and bonds with them will never benefit out people and will make sure that conditions exist in which the fascists on the other side, the mullah group, fluorishes. That is not the way to go, these AHs like hamid want that to exist otherwise the whole purpose behind their dim wit rant is taken away.

Re: # 567

Dear masadi:

{HP sahib, you are choosing the wrong side in this conflict, the side of fascism which will never promote a liberal agenda. The US will keep the rest of the thrid world in pseudo slavery, making pacts and bonds with them will never benefit out people and will make sure that conditions exist in which the fascists on the other side, the mullah group, fluorishes.}

I don`t think so. US is still the beacon of freedom and humanity in this kind of world. It is the forces of darkness which is resisting to be enlightened, and US will continue to fight these forces.

It is the muslim leaders of this world who are totally fascist and who want to implement their brand of civilization that should be checked and cleared from the annals of humanity.

Respectfully submitted,

#563 by VRV

Sure :-)

#554 by hamidm2

Yaar Hamidm .. Kashmir is NOT our war because Kashmir was CEDED legally to India when YOUR army tried to play tricks in return for India`s doing the same thing on Junagadh and Hyderabad .... now if Kashmiris want something else they need to fight on their own as a secessionist movement ... it is upto them .... why`re we destroying what is left of Pakistan over this? What do Palestinians got to do with it? Kashmir is LEGALLY a part of India and anyone who supports a secessionist movement is interfering illegally. Just like you blame India in helping East Pakistan to secede ...

Got it? I guess not ...

Re: # 565

zeemax,

..... at least kashmir is in the neighborhood and i have a lot of kashmiri friends who sell carpets and cheap wooden carvings on canning road .......... and i am not advocating that we should start a war in kashmir unless we are absolutely sure that we can win it - and that won`t happen for at least a hundred years; so there is no point in talking about it because at that point who knows what will happen - with global warming and all .........

........ my point was much much simpler - i don`t feel any kinship with the arabs and somehow (please don`t ask me to explain why) i just don`t like them - nothing personal, i also don`t like snakes, mormons and barry manilow ......... i am more concerned about the spotted owl and the blue whales ..........

Re: # 570 by hamidm2 on July 26, 2006 12:58pm PT

Hamid,

{.... i don`t feel any kinship with the arabs and somehow (please don`t ask me to explain why) i just don`t like them - nothing personal, i also don`t like snakes, mormons and barry manilow ......... i am more concerned about the spotted owl and the blue whales ..........}

Agreed, untold miseries have been inflicted upon humanity by arabs, under the banner of Islam. If only today`s arabs can collectively ask for forgiveness, will that quench your anger towards arabs?

Respectfully submitted,

#562 by zeemax on July 26, 2006 12:36pm PT


And yes, I do not believe 7/7 was carried out by three Pak immigrants


They weren`t immigrants..They were brit-born...with opportunities that the majority of a billion Indians and 150 million pakis can only dream about..

your belief in their innocence has everything to do with the fact that the accused are muslim and you follow the ``muslim = innocent victims`` school of jurisprudence...what`re the chances that you don`t believe Rajiv Gandhi was whacked by a tamil tiger suicide bomber? Nada..

#551 by VRV

VRV, thanks for this post, and in return I offer my sincere apology for what I had said before to you, despite your provocations in the past. I hope you`ll accept it.

You are a humanist ... just like me. I have no hesitation in saying that, whether Hindu, Muslim, or Jew.

And yes, I do not believe 7/7 was carried out by three Pak immigrants and a black carribean immigrant. But that`s neither here nor there.

Re: # 562

Zeemax,

I dont think we need to say apologies. Anyway, nice of you.

I dont like to change your opion on 7/7.

We can meet on some other board firing at each other!?...

VRV

#555 by tahmed32

Ahmedbhai,

I hope I got some company here.

#559 by arjun_m

Arjundada,

You are right.
We can take solace that there are some guys who are normal human beings.

To be counted which side one was on when the great Deluge ( Noah`s) came....

`` MeiN bhhee uus bhheerR meiN thhaa jo s`ray maqtal aae
Paa b`dst`ay digaray, d`st b`d`stay digary``

I too was part of that multitude which was carried to the holocaust, feet in the clutches of one and arms in the claws of another.

In the meantime savour & relish this:

http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=191203237

EE Times: Semi News
Iran develops 32-bit processor
eetimeseurope.cmp.com
(07/26/2006 1:36 PM EDT)
LONDON — Iran has designed and produced a 32-bit microprocessor for the first time, according to the Fars News Agency based in Tehran.
The agency said Tuesday (July 25) that Iranian researchers and engineers at Parsé Semiconductor Co. (Tehran) had developed a 32-bit processor that is compatible with the Sparc instruction set. ................Read on.

#551 by VRV on July 26, 2006 12:12pm PT


B4 we are Indians, Pakistanis or anything else, we are human beings. I show similar sympathies to the victims of Hezbollah rocket fire.


Very noble of you..but the vast majority of muslims don`t feel the pain of the non-muslim victims..for them, a dead non-muslim is a way to advance their Islamist agenda by pointing to the ``root cause``...

For a terrorist, OBL has a really high rating in the Islamic world...how`d you figure that?