Escalation of Hostilities in Middle East

#36 by hamidm2

........israel is right in demanding that hezbollah should be disarmed and the government of lebanon take control of its territory ........

Hamidm, do you know that Hazballah represents 40% of the country`s population? That the Government of Lebanon relies upon Hazballah for all border security? That even in the small regular army of Lebanon, a large chunk is Hazballah? That in fact Hazballah is part of the Lebanon Government itself?

Who exactly do you want to disarm whom?

Strange .........that sounds like typical Jim Bolton stuff ... but from Hamidm`s mouth .....?

contd.....#81........

But be patient just for a while. Your wishes will be granted. There will be no ambiguity between who is whom soon and there won`t be any militia in Lebanon. There`ll only be the regular army of Lebanon i.e. Hazballah.

Happy now?

I just want to use this forum to say how joyful it is to watch the Israelis destroy the Islamic terrorists in Lebanon to stone age, where they belong. I admire the Israelis for having real balls (a tiny jewish nation among a sea of rabid, mad, bent on destroying them- muslim fanatics). I think the entire world should be very thankful for that. The Israelis have shown the Indians the way, the truth and the light and India should sincerely follow this path in dealing with the Muslim terrorists in India.

ONLY REASON - Pakistanis and muslims from India support Palestinians, Saudis, etc. is because they are Muslims and thus slaves to Arabs. Not for human rights or anything else.

The human rights record among Pakistanis and Arabs and countries ruled by Muslims is so pathetic that it will take more than a 1000 years to remove slavery, in-equality, illiteracy, poverty, child sex-abuse, exploitation and sex-ploitation of Women and to bring it to the human rights level in Israel and the West. AND this is despite the fact that Gulf Arab nations, supposedly the leaders of Islamic world, are sitting on the world`s biggest area of known oil reserves.

Pakistanis/muslims who live in India who have been to Arab nations know how they are treated like dirt and slaves compared to white, christian Europeans (who are treated with all respect and dignity ) and even then they will support the Arabs blindly even if the Arabs are WRONG just because Pakistanis and muslims (who live in India) want to show them that they are good-old black muslim slaves who follow their Arab masters.

zeemax - the issue is not the `mission` should have been `accomplished` by now with all this `shock & awe` but as Nazarhayatkhan suggested Hamas & Hizbullah are religious gangs accountable to no one..

It is this lack of accountability that is the cause for concern. Since they are not accountable to anyone (even to the people who elected them) these guys go around
(a) commiting acts of criminality
(b) donot care for their own humanity forget humanity in general
(c) they are able to use their power to hide behind facades of states - whom they blackmail into submission -

such criminals need to eliminated. The issue of the so-called puppet presidents and kings is something wihch needs to be sorted out. But the vast majority of the ummah start supporting the criminals when people try to sort of the mess as in Iraq. There is no silent majority in the ummah who donot support criminals - but there is a huge silent majority which supports these criminals. That is the gravest of concerns to the world at large (both civilised and the uncivilised).

#63 by tahmed32

Actually Hamas has not just not recognized Israel but continued its hostilities, as evidenced by the firing of missiles from Gaza and the kidnapping of an Israeli border guard.

That was because Israel dismissed the acceptance of Israel by Hamas as Hamas`s internal matter and of of no consequence in their relations with them and continued to besiege Gaza. But to continue to flog this horse would be nitpicking.

A reminder. The BBC is using the term `Captured`. Fox is using `Kidnapped`. Which one of the two knows better english?

On the three conditions:

1) 1967 borders: ...Sharon`s unilateral withdrawal plan...map of the wall..de facto border...bulk of the west bank in palestinian hands....

Well Palestininas see it rather differently. They won`t accept `bulk` of what was taken away from them in 1967. They`ll only accept `all` of what was taken away from them in 1967.

The camp-david accords would have given back approx 84% of the territory back PLUS some accomodation on East-Jerusalem. They turned it down. The wall has reduced that terrirtory to maybe 62%. Is it reasonable to expect them to accept that? They have already given up what was appropriated after Deirr Yassein, but not this.

(2) East Jerusalem: True. Israelis have been adamant on not returning this.

So there`s a dead-lock over this. But you will remember that the resolutions forming Israel specified ALL of Jerusalem as a protectorate, rather than under Israel`s control.

(3) Right of Return:...unreasonable demand...jews would become a minority in israel -

Yaar right of return to West Bank ... not israel ... uff.

why would anyone in his right mind hand over control of his country to a people who have no particular love for you to begin with? and after 50 years, the demand seems quite fake to me: most palestinians were not even born back then.

See above. And West Bank was not taken 50 years ago.

Now if Israel agreed of right to return to West Bank, that may, I repeat may (because most well-settled people won`t return anyway) outnumber Jews in Israel, but so what? If there`s an agreement to peace, and Israel is immensely strong militarily, what`re they afraid of? How many small countries are neighbours of big countries not only in population but in area as well, why is that a problem? Isn`t it a basic human right to be able to return to one`s homeland? If there`s eventually a Palestine, should half the Palestinian population be forced to remain in exile?

If Hamas was serious about wanting peace, or had leaders with half a brain, they would have taken the unilateral withdrawal plan.

Look. After 50 years of struggle, one intifada with slingshots against tanks and another with light weapons against blackhawks, after sabra/shatiala, after a Jenin, and after sacrificing tens of thousands of their teens and young at a ratio of 20:1 in favour of the israelis, you still expect them to take whatever israel is willing to give them and forget about the rest?

That expectation, at best, can be either termed naive, or devoid of even a basic sense-of-justice. The other possibility is of-course that it could be the apartheid mindset.

If it is the latter, then I guess we should stop flogging the dead horse.

Cheers!

Why was my interact #69 with the map of US/Israeli proposed bantustan removed? Has tahmed become Chowk editor now?

I would also like to know what specific guideline was violated by interact #69 that merely provided the historical context for the conflict together with busting the myth of the ``generous`` Israeli offer to create a dependent Bantustan as Palestine, a mere distraction to legalize its occupation and grant it global legitimacy.

You cannot remove posts simply because you don`t like the information that is presented and misuse the relegated authority. I need an explanation on why that interact was removed.

#87 by masadi

Masadi, maybe it wasn`t removed because of its content but because of its size. If it was too big, that misaligns the entire page. Can you check and resize if possible?

ok, I`ll resize the map and post it later in the day, and hope its not removed.

Just want to say I am very impressed by the knowledge of Pakistani elite about the Palestinian and Israelis history.

It seems Pakistanis just want to make Arab dreams come true, While Pakistan has only 40 % literacy, ZERO rights for women, child-labor problems, child sex-ploitation, women sex-ploitation, bonded labor problem and slavery, etc. etc.

I really must commend the Pakistani elite and muslim elite of India for all the sacrifices they are making for the Arabs inspite of being treated like shit by the Arabs.

My hats of the Pakistanis. I salute you.

Sincerely, Bhairav

#85 zeemax First, welcome to this board, where we can continue our discussion (while masadi has arguments, and the ``one dozen for a rupee`` creips like bhairav have squeaks on this board). :-)

First, a couple of preliminary matters so the discussion stays on track and we dont end up going around in circles repeating the same thing:

You write Well Palestininas see it rather differently.

You make two errors here:

1. You equate Hamas with Palestinian. Wrong. Hamas in just one party which happened to win these elections, and a significant portion of palestinians voted for the PLO which had a different platform. Also, please recall the discussion we already had on how it is the best educated and worldly-wise among the palestinians who are in fact for peace.

So, let me make my first correction to this statement based on what has already been discussed, as follows:

Well, Hamas and its supporters see it differently.

2. You equate the Hamas view point with the view point of someone with a brain. As I mentioned in my previous post, our own Muhammed Ali Jinnah was not happy about the exact borders drawn by in 1947, referred to is as a ``moth eaten Pakistan``.... but he accepted it nevertheless as being the best deal he was going to get. If Hamas had a brain, it would have done what Jinnah did (and indeed as Abbas was prepared to do) and accepted the unilateral withdrawal that Sharon was prepared to do - and which is clearly off the table now. Just as before 1967, arabs already had all the territories that you say Hamas wants now - and lost it all in their attempt to over-run Israel. Just as they had even more territory than per 1967 borders, and lost it when they ganged up 11 to 1 to over-run Israel.

So, to allow for this second correction, your statement becomes:

Well Hamas see it rather differently, given that it lacks a leader like Jinnah who had the brains to realize that politics is the art of the possible and accepted what he himself called a ``moth eaten Pakistan``, since this was the best deal he knew he could get.

What do you say to that my friend? :-)

PS: Ignore #91. There are a couple of confusing typos there which I have corrected below.

#85 zeemax First, welcome to this board, where we can continue our discussion (while masadi has arguments, and the ``one dozen for a rupee`` creips like bhairav have squeaks on this board). :-)

You write Well Palestininas see it rather differently.

You make two errors here:

1. You equate Hamas with Palestinian. Wrong. Hamas in just one party which happened to win these elections, and a significant portion of palestinians voted for the PLO which had a different platform. Also, please recall the discussion we already had on how it is the best educated and worldly-wise among the palestinians who are in fact for peace.

So, let me make my first correction to this statement based on what has already been discussed, as follows:

Well, Hamas and its supporters see it differently.

2. You equate the Hamas view point with the view point of someone with a brain. As I mentioned in my previous post, our own Muhammed Ali Jinnah was not happy about the exact borders drawn by in 1947, referred to is as a ``moth eaten Pakistan``.... but he accepted it nevertheless as being the best deal he was going to get. If Hamas had a brain, it would have done what Jinnah did (and indeed as Abbas was prepared to do) and accepted the unilateral withdrawal that Sharon was prepared to do - and which is clearly off the table now. Just as before 1967, arabs already had all the territories that you say Hamas wants now - and lost it all in their attempt to over-run Israel. Just as they had even more territory than per 1967 borders, and lost it when they ganged up 11 to 1 to over-run Israel in 1948.

So, to allow for this second correction, your statement becomes:

Well Hamas see it rather differently, given that it lacks a leader like Jinnah who had the brains to realize that politics is the art of the possible and accepted what he himself called a ``moth eaten Pakistan``, since this was the best deal he knew he could get.

What do you say to that my friend? :-)

#80 by zeemax on July 21, 2006 1:21am PT


Now the Indians at-least on this forum blindly support Israel


Right...and we all know that in any conflict between muslims and non-muslims, muslims never instinctively come down on the side of muslims...no siree bob..muslims would be objective and would never go as far as making up conspiracy theories to show that muslims are always innocent..

HINDU HYPOCRISY!

It`s ironic how Hindus accuse Arab countries of ``Islamic terrorism`` and yet the very same Hindus are living and working in UAE, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, Oman and even the ``ultra-fanatic`` Saudi Arabia! I know coz I was raised in the Gulf.

Guess Hindus are obsessed with Muslims!

Let`s hope peace prevails in West Asia. Insha Allah (Incidentally, a lot of Hindus these days say `Insha Allah`. Whatever happened to Krishnaji? Is he busy flirting with his gopis? lol)

Irena Akbar (Proud Indian Muslim)

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#76 by akpower on July 20, 2006 11:47pm PT


No one is saying that Hezbollah is great,


Just saying Hizbollah isn`t great doesn`t cut it...what`re the lebs doing about the hezb launching rockets from Lebanese soil? squat.....



but what the Israelis are doing is absolutely unjustified.


Right..the practitioners of the religion of peace, and that too of a particular brand, are the final arbiters of what`s justified...