Waiting for Enlightenment

Re: # 22

Hamidm sahib:

Can you issue a fatwa before you go for your cremation?

Anil

They can`t even eliminate sectarian terrorism, how could they ever do anything about Taliban or other likeminded fools.

IMHO veiled female students are okay as long as they do not teach their sons to blow themselves up. I am all for Muslim women getting educated. I hope the findings of western researchers that educated women beget fewer children is not culture-specific. If some of these learn about great achievements of science such as brought about by extreme sacrifices of Copernicus and Galileo then may be, just may be they might understand why modern Christianity has become such an unbelieving religion. They might then want to start similar revolution in their own society. May be I am dreaming. Let Pakistan open ``womens only`` universities. Let Pakistani women join these in large numbers. Let these places have many women centric vocational courses so that women feel that it is worth their while to join these universities. Let these places do many women centric studies. Veils or no veils that will do them good.

[#10 by arstoo on July 24, 2006 1:28am PT
...In Quran it is clearly mentioned that an infidel has no right to say anything about Islam...]

Does Quran mention that a believer can challenge all of Islamic beliefs? Or, some beliefs are off limits to believers also? If some significant parts of Quran cannot be challenged by believers also and these are too crucial for relations between believers and non-believers then non-believers are bound to talk about it. A non-believer may not know entire system of your beliefs but since he/she is affected by some of your beliefs then he is bound to talk about it whether you give him that right or not.

It is like 9/11. As long as your beliefs are not causing terrorist acts like 9/11 west is going to leave you to your beliefs. By all means immerse yourself in these beliefs, cook them up and eat them up, no one is going to question you. But as soon as 9/11 happened same beliefs affected west because ultimately 9/11 was result of your beliefs. So now west is going to say what is acceptable and what is not. From there on meddling in Islam will begin. For good or bad you will have to learn to live with it.

Re: # 15

Majumdar saheb,

I grew up reading the magazine and I find it very readable weekly on economic and political matters. They even carry out some theoretical issues on economics. Some people may have commie leanings but the magazine is a real class. EPW is not an official mouth-piece of commies. I think it was Peoples` Democracy or something like that.

regards,

VRV.

ref [#36 by einsteinwallah on July 24, 2006 6:39pm PT]

Islam is a relegion of peace. Infidels like parvez, you and me can not understand this simple fact. God sent his messagnger Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) to spread peace on this earth and wipe the indidels of the face of earth.

Once Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC ) was resting after a heavy lunch. His beautiful Jewish wife was sitting next to him. Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) was in deep thought planning his next attack on the kafirs.

While he was planning the next move with his left hand he was fondling the breasts of his beautiful wife. In the mean time one of his followers knoked at the door and was let in. It was his faithful follower Mughlim with his 4th wife Al-bood.

Mughlim asked Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) : `O messanger of god, I have captured this woman and her young daughter in the war. Can I enjoy them bothe togeather.``

Prophet ( SAW-PBUH-KS-POM-ETC) went int deeper thought after fondling his wife for the next 15 minutes he said `Listen you believer, don`t you have any shame left. How will you justify this behaviour on the night of reckoning. Be kind to them. You enjoy the mother first and then sell her as slave. After that you are free to enjoy the daughter`

This example clearly shows the compassion, love for humanity and empathy in the heart of messanger of God.

No infidel is capable of understanding this.

Mr. Hoodbhoy,

Pakistanis and muslims all over the world are completely obsessed with their religion. Day in, day out, their only motivation is religion, religion and even more religion. Nothing else matters. Karl Marx said religion is the opiate for the masses. For muslims, Islam is not just opium, it is like crack cocaine. It is supremely addictive. It provides them the ultimate escape from the real world and gives them false comfort of some guranteed afterworld happiness, if they do a few specific things.

Real life is tough for everyone. Getting an education, getting a job, competing with everyone, leading a honest life and sustaining oneself and family is not an easy task. As compared to that struggle, it is far more comfortable to stay illiterate and practice some mechanical rituals hoping to score enough brownie points with Allah to make it to heaven. If you want a short cut to heaven, just blow up some kaffirs and you have paid your dues faster.

Why is Islam like this as compared to other religions? I believe the reason is the highly structured nature of the faith with a very distinct set of ``dos and donts``. Christianity is also structured but not to this extent while Hinduism is not structured at all. That is why christians in Europe flirted with religious escapism till the middle ages but gave it up. Hindus never bought into it. But muslims have bought into religious escapism, lock stock and barrel. Nothing can really change that.

``But at the heart of Pakistan’s problems lies a truth – one etched in stone – that when a state proclaims a religious identity and mission, it is bound to privilege those who organize religious life and interpret religious text. ``

Hoodbhoy,

The only solution to Pakistan`s problem is its movement towards SECULARISM!!!
Roll back Pakistan into a Secular Republic............BAN political parties and campaigning in the elections on the basis of religions, religious symbols and agendas..................
I been maintaining this since a long time on the chowk..........I am glad I can see the echoes now.........

#40 by ballukhan on July 25, 2006 4:48am PT


The only solution to Pakistan`s problem is its movement towards SECULARISM!!!


And the only solution to high airfares is catching a ride on a flying pig..

Re: #10 by arstoo

arstoo,

That was very funny. I laughed for 5 minutes straight. Can I borrow thw SAW-POM- stuff?

:)

Islam was created to spread peace on this earth and wipe the infidels of the face of earth??
Everyone says Islam is a logical religion - but how do these two (peace and war) ever logically work together???? You can`t ``peacefully`` live with someone after wiping them out - or have them think you are peaceful after you maim and torture them or rape female slaves - do all this until they ``believe``? that is cohersion, not true conversion. Peace and war are exact opposites and accomplish exact opposites - love brings peace and happy coexistence, war brings hate and dysfunctional societies.

The ONLY logical religious statement ever made was made by Jesus:
The greatest command is to love God with your whole heart body mind and soul; the next is love (all) others as you love yourself. And also love your enemies (infidels) - even if they persecute you. Why love? because God has loved you unconditionally so you do to example Gods love to the world. This is to the world the greatest example but a very illogical religious statement.

How do you deal with this knowing Mohammed who first claimed he was following all the earlier commands God gave prophets and God does not change would later change these commands and words so that love is no longer the highest example of God, but torture, killing and rape is?

The Dr. writes <<< Pakistan is what it is because its army finds greater benefit in the status quo. Today the Pakistan Army is vast, and as an institution, has acquired enormous corporate interests that sprawl across real estate, manufacturing, and service sectors. It also receives large amounts of military aid, all of which would be threatened if it comes into direct conflict with the US. In the 1960s and 1980s, and again since 9/11, the army discovered its high rental value when serving the US. Each time the long-term costs to the society and state have been terrible. >>>

Apparently the hamidms on here have missed the above paragraph in the Dr.`s assessment, which is the main cause of sectarian unenlightened mullahism, than what these damn fools are asserting as cause, namely Islam. Islam has nothing to do with the mullah except as slogan, the atmosphere in which the mullahs are given legitimacy is connected to a road that leads right back to the USA and its hired occupation force in Pakistan, as explicitly stated, in somewhat different words, by Ayub Khan, as he begged the Americans for military aid and structure- according to primary meeting docs used by Dennis Kux in DISENCHANTED ALLIES This is much the same as what the Dr. is presenting, and I am glad in these few months he has learned something, before he was presenting nothing more than blind prejudice. So Dr. sahib, let us extend your ``institutional`` analysis a little further. Since the military is the dominant institution, that prefers the status quo, and defines the structure of existence for Pakistan, this mullah-ism is its child through institutional precedent. Attack the cause and you take away the effect.

However, note that the lower echelons of this military are not dead and they are not as caricaturized by you, they are noting the events going in around the globe and in Lebanon today, I refer to the lower echelons in the officers corps, and sooner or later this status quo of unquestioned US hegemony, even as the public in Pakistan goes to hell, will be challenged. Hoodbuoy in his concluding paragraph prefers Musharraf and the status quo, rather than the ascension of the lower ranks that he caricatures as ``Taliban``- though there is a stark difference in the institutional structure of the military in Pakistan as the mullahs that constitue the Taliban. There might arise a Nasser from these ranks, no less a Muslim according to the enlightened spirit of the Quran, than the Mullahs who have brought everything ``foreign`` into it based upon the caricatures of crusaders of old even as they talk againt the present day crusaders. Think about this Mullahs on chowk as for the non-Mullahs, will you let the Mullahs define history, science, medicine and culture for you? If not then why do you let them define Islam for you? Be consistent, not guided by your prejudice.

in #44 read <<< though there is a stark difference in the institutional structure of the military in Pakistan as the mullahs that constitue the Taliban. >>> as

though there is a stark difference in the institutional structure of the military in Pakistan compared to the mullahs that constitue the Taliban.

Ichaim writes <<< The ONLY logical religious statement ever made was made by Jesus:
The greatest command is to love God with your whole heart body mind and soul; the next is love (all) others as you love yourself. And also love your enemies (infidels) - even if they persecute you. Why love? because God has loved you unconditionally so you do to example Gods love to the world. This is to the world the greatest example but a very illogical religious statement. >>>

I didn`t know we had evangelicals on here who are trying to push Christianity while deriding Islam based upon nonsense.

Regarding your rant how about this statement made by ``Jesus`` Luke 19:27 `` For those enemies of mine, who would not have me reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.`` or the one where he tells the woman who carried him for 9 months, ``woman, what have I to do with thee...`` Or let us talk about law, didn`t he say ``Matthew 5:17-19:

[17] ``Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

[19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;

You think just becase you can repeat the nonsense caricatures of Islam, murder, rape and all the other BS that your readers are going to accept that, when you cannot even construct a logical argument based on your fake assertions?

Ichaim writes <<< The ONLY logical religious statement ever made was made by Jesus:
The greatest command is to love God with your whole heart body mind and soul; the next is love (all) others as you love yourself. And also love your enemies (infidels) - even if they persecute you. Why love? because God has loved you unconditionally so you do to example Gods love to the world. This is to the world the greatest example but a very illogical religious statement. >>>

I didn`t know we had evangelicals on here who are trying to push Christianity while deriding Islam based upon nonsense.

Regarding your rant how about this statement made by ``Jesus`` Luke 19:27 `` For those enemies of mine, who would not have me reign over them, bring them here and slay them before me.`` or the one where he tells the woman who carried him for 9 months, ``woman, what have I to do with thee...`` Or let us talk about law, didn`t he say ``Matthew 5:17-19:

[17] ``Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them.

[18] For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished.

[19] Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven;

You think just becase you can repeat the nonsense caricatures of Islam, murder, rape and all the other BS that your readers are going to accept that, when you cannot even construct a logical argument based on your fake assertions?

``We are living in an age where old is dying and new is not born``.The socio political conditions in pakistan are not because of the religious zeolist attitude...there are many factors.
ecnomics,lack of political leadership,anarchy,parallel system,class struggle,and in this situation people use religion as a veil to hide from the realities of life.
Hijab is more a cultural/religious problem.I attended qau 2003-05 badge.
Hijab is visible more in faculity of natural science.
physics and Maths, and its only because of the islamilization by the teachers.
I myself have heard stories abt teachers who fail the female students because they were not wearing duppata during the class.
Its a race to be pious,modest..in a so called corrupted society.
and there is parallel westrenization is also underway.
Mcdonalds,kfc,consumerism is on rise in pakistan.
But yes on the whole islamilization,lack of acedmeic debate, cult rigid attitudes..all are responsible for the blighted state of Pakistani society.