Let's Kill All The Moslems

tahmed: thanks. guzaara ho raha hai. hope all is well with you also.

hamidm #126 actually, i am beginning to realize how mullah islam actually promotes immorality in muslim societies:

1. a friend of mine told me that the ``rishwat rate`` at karachi port goes up after jumma prayers!! reason: the ``faithful`` rishwat-taker believes that jumma prayers wash away his sins, and so rishwat taken just before prayer time is quickly removed.

2. same about haj - mullah islam (not the Quran) preaches that hajj wipes away sins. So, you do your sins, then go have a little holiday in arabia, and you are good to go.

ana #127 glad to see you back on chowk after some absence. hope all is well with you.

PewResearch: you ask: Why is it afflicting only 2nd generation muslims, and not others?

more questions!! as the old man in Lewis Carrol`s poem replied:

I have answered three questions, and that is enough,``
Said his father. ``Don`t give yourself airs!
Do you think I can listen all day to such stuff?
Be off, or I`ll kick you down stairs.

:-) just kidding. couldnt resist it. so please dont be offended.

More seriously: agreed, this is a good question. From all indications, the role of mosques in europe has been pernicious. Not all by any means, but certainly some. thus, i think many of the london bombers as well as the ones caught over the past few days attended the same mosque. similarly, reid (the would-be shoe bomber whose attempt to blow up the plane he was in was foiled by an alert waitress) and mousaavi atended the same mosque.

These are clearly social issues that every muslim parent should be concerned about. Your question is therefore very relevant, and while all parents need to be alert to pitfalls their children may be headed towards - ``bad company``, drugs in particular - muslim parents need to be alert to this additional danger, this albatross of the ``mullah islam``.

Does this make sense to you?

behram, #53

wading through some pointless posts. . . i thank you for your words, but as someone who is still a ``paki``, i would like to say that i think it`s dangerous to generalize as to what a ``paki`` mind is. cultured, perhaps, depending on one`s definition of cultured, but tolerance and love. . . those are things that more than a few of us have very little of for anyone outside our own group, or our own country.

i don`t agree with how arjun writes about pakis a lot of the time, but i don`t think he is a hatemongerer. (couldn`t tell if you were referring to him, but since you were responding to his post. . .) and you can metaphorically ``patthar se maaro`` me, as most ``pakis`` would, but that`s my story and i`m sticking to it. :)

i would like to say respectfully submitted, but i tend to have problems with the word ``submission`` so how `bout just:

respectfully,
ana

.... zeemax`s value system .....

from today`s ny times:

Between 1997 and 2002, the U.N. Mission of Kuwait picked up 246 parking violations per diplomat. Diplomats from Egypt, Chad, Sudan, Mozambique, Pakistan, Ethiopia and Syria also committed huge numbers of violations. Meanwhile, not a single parking violation by a Swedish diplomat was recorded. Nor were there any by diplomats from Denmark, Japan, Israel, Norway or Canada.

............... i think this explains it all - the ummah, like zeemax, thinks that as long as they protect their women`s virginity and do not drink, they will get to heaven inspite of defecating on the streets, lying, cheating, stealing and killing innocent civilians .......

............brooks concludes by saying :

it is no wonder that young Muslim men in Britain might decide to renounce freedom and prosperity for midair martyrdom. They are driven by a deep cultural need for meaning. But it is also foolish to think we can address the root causes of their toxic desires. We’ll just have to fight the symptoms of a disease we can neither cure nor understand.

The root cause of the jihadi terrorism is the belief that the jihadies don`t die. They straightaway go to heaven when `killed` where 72 hoors are awaiting them with garlands in their hands. This cannot obviously either be the reaction of the killing of the Muslims by the infidels as the Muslim victims are also not killed but martyred to go to heaven like jihadies.

As regards Israel we should not forget that they are not `kafirs` but `ahle kitab` (pre-Islamic Muslims),a progeny of prophets, whereas Hizbullah people are Shias who according to Sunni Fatwas are all `kafirs`, who deserve to be killed not martyred. The fact is that terrorism has no religion. This is shear madness caused mostly by sex-starvation. I have yet to see an old man to become a suicide bomber.

Zeemax,

The last time you claimed
I have always turned around and faced them and asked them to look in my eyes before I killed them.
It was easy. One shot in the forehead... that`s it.
Later, it turned out that you were just having ``an episode`` and you actually confirmed in your own words ``I never hurt a fly in my whole life.``

Applying a similar discounting to your latest claim:
``I have had more women than you or hamidm have had breakfasts in their entire lifetimes. I have flown in private jets and wined and dined with princes and kings.``

I can tell that you`ve met with one inconsequential middle-eastern ``prince`` (of the hundreds that are remotely related to the few in charge) and that you renewed your subscription to your favorite girlie magazine.

:):)

Re: # 121 by zeemax on August 13, 2006 5:29pm PT

Dear Zeemax:

Thanks for a short answer. I will give you a rather lengthy reply.

I have no idea which passport is prestigious. As for myself, I have a very humble beginning and have never wined and dined with any prince, and neither did your prophet, although Zarathushtra supposedly converted the King of Persia.

But, neither you are prophet of Islam, nor I am Zarathushtra. So, why bother about who is where on the social strata?

As for the values of having pre-marital sex or extra-marital sex is concerned, you have acknowledged that you have been with more women than me. Was that morally sanctioned by your values?

{I have flown in private jets and wined and dined with princes and kings.} So where were the princesses?

{The thing which I taught my son, when he reached puberty, was that each girl you meet, is someone else`s daughter. And he listened.}

Of course, he did, and that is admirable. The question was never about what you taught to your kids. The question is whether you have a right to be judgmental about somebody else`s behavior?

{All I taught him was respect. And cultural values which I had betrayed, but didn`t want him to do the same. If I hadn`t conveyed that experience, I would have failed in a responsibility. }

So, you want to get off quite easily by saying that ``the cultural values that you betrayed.`` What if the ``the cultural values of your son`` is different than yours? Is this at all possible? Or do we all have ``status quo`` cultural values?

{These are the values which you teach. These don`t come from nowhere .. these come from background. Religious, and cultural.}

Correct, and granted. But what is the background of this child who is born in the west? Do your cultural values continue for generations? And how many?

{Western values don`t teach not to screw someone else`s daughter.} But, your Pakistani values did teach you not to be other women. Did it not?

Does your values have any place for hypocrisy?

This is exactly what we abhor, the insinuation you had earlier about enlightened parent`s daughters going for premarital sex. Since, then, I am glad that you have retracted your rhetorical post.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 116

zeemax,

this might be hard for you to understand, but when we are talking about jihadis, suiciders and homiciders, we are actually talking about morality ......... jihadis are more immoral than pimps, whores and saudi princes ...........

........ and then you go on to say that, `` I carry a very prestigious passport. I have had more women than you or hamidm have had breakfasts in their entire lifetimes`` ...... i, for one am very impressed ....... but i thought you werea a proud paki - what`s this about a `prestigious` passport ? ......... as far as the women are concerned, we are proud of you and now, like the cat, you can go for hajj ! ......... like all good muslims, you are a very good hypocrite !

#120 by behram1

Behram,

I`ll give you the short answer.

As a prelude I`ll tell you I am from the western culture as well. I carry a very prestigious passport. I have had more women than you or hamidm have had breakfasts in their entire lifetimes. I have flown in private jets and wined and dined with princes and kings. Perhaps I have a claim on understanding a little bit upon what it`s all about. I learnt.

The thing which I taught my son, when he reached puberty, was that each girl you meet, is someone else`s daughter. And he listened.

All I taught him was respect. And cultural values which I had betrayed, but didn`t want him to do the same. If I hadn`t conveyed that experience, I would have failed in a responsibility.

These are the values which you teach. These don`t come from nowhere .. these come from background. Religious, and cultural. Western values don`t teach not to screw someone else`s daughter.

Re: # 116 by zeemax on August 13, 2006 3:32pm PT

Dear Zeemax:

Morality in the west is not what is prescribed by the cultural ethos, but by the current practices of this society. By whatsoever reasoning the west has decided that kids cease to be a kid at the age of 18, and that is one reason that child support payments generally ends when the child reaches that 18.

Of course there are some universal morality that society expects and demands, but thou shall not commit adultery is not what this society expects or demands. Right or wrong is just a personal choice and other`s judgment is usually not warranted. For example, lying and deceiving and not telling the truth is quite prevalent amongst the South Asian culture, and which is actually admired. However, for the most part it is abhored in the Anglo-Saxon culture of North America.

{We`re talking of morality. } Assuming that we are both from the same cultural background, should we consider that we have the same morality regarding sex? Premarital sex is quite common amongst adults, even in Pakistan. Are we to have morality police, then?

{If, parental values are not inculcated with a sense of identity, history, culture and all that stuff, you wind up with not having fulfilled any responsibility ... that`s leaving kids to wander in spheres where they do not belong .... like mulattos. }

To what age is the question? Being depended on children for your social security safety net is not what these parental responsibility should be. Or should it be? After what age should a kid be considered an adult? I have known many muslim kids from Karachi who are over 30 years old, and have this guilt embedded in them by their parents to continue work, earn a living and share it with his siblings in the same house, and not to get married. The reason being that the new woman would be able to cut off the economic life-line of the parent`s family. Is that what family values are meant?

And perhaps that is what the main bone of contention is between Islamic cultural values, and the western world where individualism is the key for its culture.

{We are Muslims, and South Asians, and Brown. That`s who we are. We should teach our children that so they have a place in the world. }

I think when you frame the culture question, even the non-muslims of the old world would accept your assertions. But, that is yester years thinking. The world is more forward looking and we strive to develop ourselves going forward. And that is the reason we have AARP to handle retirement and old age issues. There can never be a right or wrong issue.

On premarital or extra-marital sex issue, however, even the religious values of the US is very conservative. And this should be consolation to you. There is no western parent, that I have known, who teaches their teen-age daughters to go get a ``blow job`` or have ``sex.``

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 96 by harimau on August 13, 2006 8:07am PT

Dear harimau:

Actually we have to add one variable in these thoughts as well, and that variable is 1,400 years of history.

{Ask first why there was/is so much hatred toward the Zoroastrians that they had to leave their homeland in Iran and migrate to the Indian subcontinent. }

Yes, some 1,400 years ago the Zoroastrians lost their empire to the invading Arabs, but not to Islam. One of the tools of warfare with the invading Arabs was the religion of Islam. When the Arabs invaded Egypt, the Christians were given the same options: accept Islam, or pay jizya, or fight war. It is now generally understood that the rich Christians preferred to pay the jizya tax, and the poor who had no money to pay accepted Islam.

But, for pete`s sake, that was some 1,400 years ago. Can we not just let bygones be bygones?

{Ask why there is hatred only when one side of the equation contains Muslims. }

I do, and here is what I have generally concluded, that mostly it is still the Greeks/Romans trying to fight with the Persians/Islam. Arabs and their values are just inconsequential in this fight and arguments.

{Have Zoroastrians been forced to leave Hindu-majority India? } No, and the reason is quite simple. Zoroastrians who fled to India were the elites and had lots of money with them. Further, they never practised proselytizing locals to their religion.

So then is proselytizing the main issue of war between Christians and Muslims? Is it then a turf war? As regards to the Jews, I think that they are just pissed off at their cousins, who massacred 700 of them in the war at Quraiza.

{What causes hatred in the hearts of fundamentalist Islamist thugs?} Yes, these weirdos and wackos have to be confronted by all the enlightened people of the world. And that includes the Muslims, and they do. We must extend all the help necessary. As an example, if only the Hindoos on this chowk can extend a modicum of decency towards the Muslim interactors who are literally enlightened and are quite literally embarrassed and humiliated at their coreligionist, we could achieve a huge milestone in promoting love and harmony amongst those from the sub-continent.

Could you extend a hand in this endeavor?

Respectfully submitted,

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Re: # 91 Tahmed32
``but clearly UK has not been as successful as the US in making this critical second generation less alienated``
Yes, and most of Europe, too. That is a key, but why is it afflicting only 2nd generation muslims, and not others?

#115 by hamidm2

Things have changed since you were 15. Things have changed even from 15 years ago, or 10, Or 5. Things change. That`s nature. Knowledge is compressed into smaller and smaller units with each generation to make room for more. You shouldn`t believe anymore that ``johadis, suicide bombers and drug addicts are all formed between the ages of 4 and 15 ..........``.

But we`re not talking of Jihadis. We`re talking of morality.

If, parental values are not inculcated with a sense of identity, history, culture and all that stuff, you wind up with not having fulfilled any responsibility ... that`s leaving kids to wander in spheres where they do not belong .... like mulattos. We are Muslims, and South Asians, and Brown. That`s who we are. We should teach our children that so they have a place in the world.

You don`t have to answer this right away. Think about it. Sleep over it. Take your time. And if you don`t choose to answer at all, that`ll be fine.

Rgds