Winning by Losing in the Middle East

#295 by masadi

Excellent points. Particularly this :

`` 18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. ``

This proves two points: (1) After Israelites were killed by plague, they took non-`chosen` slave girls for procreation; and (2) Jews were the biggest paedophiles of them ALL!

Thanks masadi. Why is our biblical scholar so quiet? Lost his `shores`?

a message for masadi, boom box and partners (excuse me URSTRULy and Co)

there is one and only one truth....the rest is well not true

#294, <<< If Mr. Shoresahib is so confident of biblical `facts`, perhaps he would like to enilghten us as to what became of the tribe born of the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughters >>>

Yes, and we would like to know how much Issac was left in the Israelites after this type of intermingling:

Numbers 31:
``
15 And Moses said unto them, Have ye saved all the women alive?

16 Behold, these caused the children of Israel, through the counsel of Balaam, to commit trespass against the LORD in the matter of Peor, and there was a plague among the congregation of the LORD.

17 Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him.

18 But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves. ``

#293 by masadi

If Mr. Shoresahib is so confident of biblical `facts`, perhaps he would like to enilghten us as to what became of the tribe born of the incestuous relationship between Lot and his daughters after Sodom/Gomorrah were destroyed and his wife had turned to stone .... and who and where are those people now?

shoresahib writes

<<< Last time I checked.......Abraham lived in the Mid East only 4000 years ago and Israelite history is well documented.... >>>

Firstly, your checking was wrong, there is no historical documentation to provide a time for when Abraham lived, neither is there anything well documented about the history of the Abrahamic era, absolutely nothing. Even a mighty structure as Solomon`s temple from much later cannot be scientifically established. In fact the earliest occurrence of the name of Abraham in the Ebla tablets deviates from the Biblical timeline by 1500 years. Next there is absolutely no proof that the Jews are the descendents of Issac and the Arabs the descendents of Ishmael except on the authority of the Bible, a religious authority which is an ahistorical and in most cases nonsense document which cannot be trusted~ the Quran does not follow this line of descent anywhere. Finally, please inform us how many generations define 4000 years- yeah do your google search and then let us know- and then tell me if after so many generations in far flung geographic regions and migration, people can be defined as actual exclusive descendents of the first generation.

Your total education upto this time, given the way you are composing your material has been, as you say, ``a load of crap``. In other words your BS has been BS!

Mr. Masadi,

Keep telling yourself your total load of crap!!!!!!!!

Last time I checked.......Abraham lived in the Mid East only 4000 years ago and Israelite history is well documented....

I really suggest that you read a book on the history of ancient Israel before you spout off your run of the mill Muslim garbage....

As far as Ashkenazi or Sephardic Jews are concerned.....your response to Jews and their origin whether it be Germanic or MidEastern...a relatively new phenomenon nevertheles, has absolutely no bearing on whether how much Jewish they are.....

Its so amazing to notice the ignorance..I have a suggestion!

Please do not, and I repeat do not address me in the future.....

Do keep your absolutely brilliant point of views to yourself, and refrain from responding to mine....My views are not meant for people like you.....

Now shoo...Go away... and do whatever you do.....Ughh!

Re: # 288 and yet you live of the West. If you were in your god fearing countries you would be behind bars. Keep on at it as long as you are here in the west.

Re: # 288 Masadi you are a mixed up person...clear your sinuses. Now be a good boy and stop mixing rethoric of godless marx with GOD fearing religion.

Its a free market of ideas. Just because no one buys yours dont get into a strop

Re: # 287
thanks zeemax for your civility compared to your other brother in arms. #286 shows a rather mixedup view. I find it interesting. you see you say

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?

The latter is true. The people living in those lands. It however happens that the overwhelming majority are Muslims, hence the generalization


And yet you are scared as hell about the WEST where the majority are not Muslims and where the Governements bend over backwards to treat as an EQUAL CITIZEN OF THEIR LANDS.

See the problem appears to be that YOU THINK THE WEST AND WESTERNERS THINK LIKE YOU (a reflection of this is the answer above). Unfortunately it is not the case however much you try and create a situation where this comes about. despite 911, the July Bombings etc Muslims have not been treated badly, in fact the UK seems to be a place where the state has gone an extra mile to accomodate the Muslims. I went to the toilets in Manchester (as i said earlier i visited the UK recently), and found Islamic toilets there. I even found the restaurant was providing Halal food, I also found various govt offices accomodating every wish ofthe Muslims, with urdu and arabic annoucements everywhere.

Look at the middle east would you find anything in hindi or Urdu there. A friend of mine went visitng arabia. the poor sod was a Hindu and he was carrying a gita in his brief case. This was removed unceremonously from him and destroyed (torn and lit up) in front of him. I donot think such a situation would be prevalet in the west. but then I fgorget Hindus donot exist as human beings in your map. (i am not a hindu before you start jumping up and down).

Thanks for your answers. I am sure you will find your space and make your peace with your maker and self at some point. Only plese donot make it a public spectacle- every life is to be cherished.

Iron_mask writes <<< In general YOU AS A MUSLIM HAVE FAR MORE RIGHTS HERE IN THE WEST THAN YOU AS A DESI MUSLIM WOULD HAVE IN YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA. Indeed Muslims in the west HAVE FAR MORE GREATER SET OF RIGHTS THAN NON MUSLIMS HAVE IN THE MUSLIMS LANDS. So stop cribbing so much. >>>

Iron_mask`s conclusion as his other rants are based more on stereotypical nonsense and a myopic worldview than much else. The West (the colonials and now the US) transformed the world into a few developed nations while the rest are ghettos, maintained at their discretion or all the benefits of monopoly development that they enjoy will evaporate, and we have see how violent they become when those are threatened.

In these ghettos, around the globe, the ``ghetto lords`` reign, they drive around in rich fancy cars and live in mansions much like the drug dealers in Harlem and other AA ghettos in the US. It is not the people nor their religion that determines such behavior. Whenever their reign is threatened and the ghetto tries to do something about its people, the so-called enlightened outsiders step in to consolidate the power of these thugs.

The color (racial) line that the Saudi `apartheid` system follows in their labor market in a dejure fashion is directly borrowed from the color line implemented in the US in a defacto fashion, it is totally alien to that area and to Islam, it is borrowed from those whose race consciousness is second to none the white European colonials and American neo-colonials. A second reason is the makeup of the labor force they get, based upon which they come to view people the way they do (based upon class more so than race, which is equally dispicable and quite common in the US). How African Americans and Mexicans get treated in the US and how South Asians and Arabs are relegated to ghettos in the UK and other European areas because of defacto racial exclusion is much worse than anything the Saudis or other Muslim lands can muster:

Now, point to me even one of these ghetto societies in which fully one third of the population of a group have been through the criminal justice system and are labelled as ``criminals`` across the board as the African Americans are in the US, or worse still the natives that were depopulated in ALL of the white settler states? Name one where the life expectancy of minorities in a Muslim land for some groups is 20 years less than the mainstream population or where the poverty rates are double that compared to the majority. No matter how hard you try, and you have no info other than BS, you will never such numbers. Except for sensationalized cases now and then, the minorities are not disproportionately affected by poverty in most of these ghetto ``Muslim`` lands, they suffer equally.

#284/2855 by iron_mask

You had asked specific questions which I answered in #282. Now if you`ld like to argue back & forth over those answers, sorry I`m not interested.

Thanks for a civil exchange.

#283 by iron_mask

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?

The latter is true. The people living in those lands. It however happens that the overwhelming majority are Muslims, hence the generalization.

What have those people given to the desi muslims?

What do Desi Muslims want from them? Please answer so I can explore further. Also, what have the Desi Muslims done for them? Even now these Desis are cheering-on the bombings of civilians for the sake of their two-car-garages (terminology credit=faisaluno).

Why is it that in those lands Muslims are discriminated against? (I am not talking of rulers but the people themselves do it on a daily basis)

This is your conjecture. I do not share your opinion which I find bigoted. Pakistani Muslims are very highly placed in the state-owned as well as private financial sectors of the entire UAE / Saudi / Kuwait / Bahrain etc.; as are indeed the Indians.

Your last para does not require a response. It is upto you what you think.

Re: # 284
to cont....apologies for this...I kepp getting interrupted....

your thought that losing this war will ensure that Western Muslims will be subject to discrimination and apartheid is just a hand waving thing and its all in the mind. The west is built around the rule of law and rational thinking. IF youwant o place yourself above and beyond this you will be prosecuted. If you want to keep yourself seperate from the aminstream - the west gives you that right to do so. If you want to integrate than the wets gives that right as well. All it asks of you is to be a productive member of the society, if you are not a productive member you need to have a damn good reason for this.

Fear causes you to take on these positions, positions which lead to more difficulties and are dead-ended. Progress is zero. You need to break free from these shackles.

remember the West GIVES YOU THE RIGHT TO GHETTOISE YOURSELF OR BREAK FREE. You are treated equally before the law, and everyone has the same rights. RIghts in the west are not dependent on your religious or political persuasion as they are in the lands occupied by the Arabs or Muslims in general.

Re: # 282
This is a split part answer reply - you say
Plus, Muslims residing abroad in western countries will be subjected to `apartheid`. Thus, at stake is the very future welfare of my children.
The muslims are not subjected to apartheid as much as non muslims and muslims from other lands are subjected to in YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA

In general Muslims in the west have far more freedom to express their veiw points than they have in Any Muslim Country you care to Name and mention. Muslims in the west have the law behind them to ensure that they get same treatment as the rest of the population. If the Muslims want to ghettosie themselves then that is an issue they have to resolve themselves. I recently visited in Bradford in England. The place is depressing. These people living in england cannot even string together more than afew words of english having lived in England for more than 3 decades.

The solution lies within, the fear of assimilation and progress turns the ghetoisation process into a self-fulfilling one. You see Demons everywhere.

In general YOU AS A MUSLIM HAVE FAR MORE RIGHTS HERE IN THE WEST THAN YOU AS A DESI MUSLIM WOULD HAVE IN YOUR FAVOURITE LANDS OF ARABIA. Indeed Muslims in the west HAVE FAR MORE GREATER SET OF RIGHTS THAN NON MUSLIMS HAVE IN THE MUSLIMS LANDS. So stop cribbing so much.

Re: # 282
Interesting answers. Thank you for clearly stating your position. What is more intersting is your answer to the last question

(f)What is there in it for You?

If Israel gets its way, Muslims will lose sovereignty over most of their natural resources, biggest of which is oil. Plus, they`ll lose any future defensive capability against any aggression from any adversary. Plus, Muslims residing abroad in western countries will be subjected to `apartheid`. Thus, at stake is the very future welfare of my children.


this answer begs a few questions, and I am genuinely asking this - not for some fire works but out of interest not some idle curiosity.

Is it the resources of the muslims or the resources of the people living in those lands?
What have those people given to the desi muslims?
Why is it that in those lands Muslims are discriminated against? (I am not talking of rulers but thepeople themselves doit on a daily basis)

You answer to question (a) is also reveiling in that you seem to be asking that the Muslims take on the leadership role of the weak in this world? Have you ever asked yourself whether the weak really want your leadership? Finally, you seem to be mixing the rethoric of godless Marxism with the God Fearing religion.