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Winning by Losing in the Middle East

Mohammad Gill August 3, 2006

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#266 Posted by ballukhan on August 7, 2006 6:00:29 pm
Re: # 264

Well said............the blame lies squarely on the mullah jamat and the non-muslim right winger everywhere which welcome escalation of communal tension on a world wide scale, bring more violence to the level of wars between nations so that the wolves can rule.....................only if Hezbollah was neutralized by the Lebanese government Nasrallah would have been reduced to a stupid foaming mullah........Lebanese let him indulge in his stupidities and are now paying the price........this is a lesson for all for us miderate muslims...............
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#265 Posted by ballukhan on August 7, 2006 5:45:14 pm
Re: # 248


``Pakis` ``war on kufr``[WOK] has moved on from yahoods to hinoods to indian muslims.... :)``

That is exactly the latest game plan of the Islamists across the border which every thinking hindu like you must understand . The Pakistanis find IM-s ``weird`` because they are yet to be like them in their understanding of Jehad ................... for those across the border Jehad is to kill for partition and their co-religionist...............IM-s have rejected their character a long time back and prefer to live peacefully and conduct their Jehads with the evil inside themselves only..............yes we are weird ........

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#264 Posted by ShoreSahib on August 7, 2006 5:39:15 pm
As I see it, its the greedy Semitic sons of Ismael and Issac that cant agree on how to divide land between themselves..........

The Egos of Circumcised Men on Both sides of the Jordan attached to the size of their phalluses, and who has the bigger one?

A Veritable Pissing Match, to see who can piss the most on and the Holy Land!!!!

Both belong to the same house, Banai Israel! Both Children of Abraham Abaa-e-Israel and both shedding each other`s blood for lifeless sand...How befitting the Chosen people of Allah, El, Elohim, YHWH!

C`est Magnifique!
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#263 Posted by arjun_m on August 7, 2006 5:06:05 pm
does it matter? The big dog says hezbollah is a terrorist group and that`s how it is..

Just like the big dog said the indigenous freedom fighters of the Lashkar-e-Toiba were terrorists and Pakiland had to go along...

Not sure if the US congress has passed a law sanctioning American and international banks that do business with hezbollah or it`s fronts...if they haven`t, they should....
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#262 Posted by bulleya on August 7, 2006 3:50:59 pm
Does anyone have any exact info on how many countries consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization? I am trying to get a final list.......

I have always tried to do some research to find how much of the rhetoric in the media, both on the US/Israel and the Arab side, is actually accurate. Generally, the word, ``terrorist`` is thrown around for groups that are in conflict with the political interests of any country that is occupying land or is carrying out an attack. For example the Hezbollah is refered to as a terrorist organization, so many times on US media that I think pretty much every American thinks that the whole world considers them a terrorist organization.

However, what is the truth? How many countries of the world consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization? From whatever I could find, there are more countries that do not recognize Israel as a state, than there are who consider Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization........

So far, I have only found USA and Israel to be the two countries that consider all aspects of Hezbollah to be a terrorist organization. And four other countries that consider some parts of it to be a terrorist organization.........The 56 Muslim countries do not consider it a terrorist organization. EU doens`t. Russia doesn`t. China doesn`t. etc.

I personally think Hezbollah has committed civilian killings. However, Israel has committed far more. Statistically, almost ten times more. So there is terrorism built into both sides, which should be acknowledged by everyone. If anyone has any additional info on this, kindly share it, as I would like to get more detailed facts. e.g. does India consider Hezbollah a terrorist organization?
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#261 Posted by echoboom on August 7, 2006 3:20:05 pm
``New

Middle East

Arab World Finds Icon


in Leader of


Hezbollah

 
By NEIL MacFARQUHAR
Published: August 7, 2006
DAMASCUS, Syria, Aug. 6 — The success or failure of any cease-fire in Lebanon will largely hinge on the opinion of one figure: Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the secretary general of Hezbollah, who has seen his own aura and that of his party enhanced immeasurably by battling the Israeli Army for nearly four weeks.
Skip to next paragraph
Enlarge this Image
Shawn Baldwin for the New York Times
Posters of Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of Hezbollah, are common at anti-Israeli demonstrations in Tehran and around the Arab world.

Hostilities in the Mideast

Go to Complete Coverage
»


Photographs

``Photographs:

Hezbollah Attack on Israeli Kibbutz

  • Israeli Airstrikes in Lebanon

Video

``Deadly

Deadly Missile Strike in Israel

Interactive Graphics

``Attacks,

Attacks, Day by Day

  • Pummeling the Heart of Hezbollah
  • Aid Convoy in Lebanon
  • More Multimedia: Israel | Lebanon | Middle East
Enlarge this Image
Bryan Denton for The New York Times
Copies of the Koran, images of Hezbollah’s leader, Sheik Hassan Nasrallah, and pictures of missile launchers on a desk in a Beirut refugee camp.
With Israeli troops operating in southern Lebanon, Sheik Nasrallah can continue fighting on
the grounds that he seeks to expel an occupier, much as he did in the years preceding Israel’s withdrawal in 2000.
Or he can accept a cease-fire — perhaps to try to rearm — and earn the gratitude of Lebanon and much of the world.
Analysts expect some kind of middle outcome, with the large-scale rocket attacks stopping but Hezbollah guerrillas still attacking soldiers so that Israel still feels pain.
In any case, the Arab world has a new icon.
Gone are the empty threats made by President Gamal Abdel Nasser’s official radio station during the 1967 Arab-Israeli war to push the Jews into the sea even as Israel seized Jerusalem, the Golan Heights and the Sinai Peninsula.
Gone is Saddam Hussein’s idle vow to “burn half of Israel,” only to launch limited volleys of sputtering Scuds. Gone too are the unfulfilled promises of Yasir Arafat to lead the Palestinians back into Jerusalem.
Now there is Sheik Nasrallah, a 46-year-old Lebanese militia chieftain hiding in a bunker, combining the scripted logic of a clergyman with the steely resolve of a general to completely rewrite the rules of the Arab-Israeli land feud.
“There is the most powerful man in the Middle East,” sighed the deputy prime minister of an Arab state, watching one of Sheik Nasrallah’s four televised speeches since the war began, during an
off-the-record meeting. “He’s the only Arab leader who actually does what he says he’s going to do.”
Days after the current war started, he ended a speech by quietly noting that Hezbollah had just attacked an Israeli warship off Lebanon, a feat considered inconceivable for his group. Those who rushed outside saw a glow visible from the damaged vessel offshore, setting off celebrations around Beirut.
The departure represented by Sheik Nasrallah — his black turban marking him as a sayyid, a cleric who can trace his lineage back to the Prophet Muhammad — has been particularly evident in those speeches. He makes no promises to destroy Israel with its superior military might, but to make it bleed and offer concessions.
“When he says to the people: I am your voice, I am your will, I am your conscience, I am your resistance, he combines both a sense of humility and of being anointed for the task,” said Waddah Sharara, a Lebanese sociology
professor and a descendant of Shiite clerics. “He’s like the circus magician who pulls the rabbit out of his hat and always knows exactly who is his audience.”
Some call it his “Disney touch.”
In many ways, this war is the moment that Sheik Nasrallah has been preparing for ever since he was first elected to run Hezbollah at age 32 in 1992, after an Israeli rocket incinerated his predecessor.
In his broadcasts he appears tranquil, assured, sincere and well informed, in command of both the facts and the situation, utterly dedicated to his cause and to his men. He is aloof yet tries to lend his secretive, heavily armed organization an air of transparency by sharing battlefield details.
On Thursday, he offered to stop firing missiles if Israel halted its attacks, saying Hezbollah preferred ground combat. Hezbollah’s position on any cease-fire, echoed by the Lebanese government, is that none is possible as long as Israeli
soldiers remain inside the country.
“He has all the power; the government has no cards in its hand,” said Jad al-Akhaoui, the media adviser to a Lebanese cabinet minister. “He keeps saying that he supports the prime minister, but there has been no translation in the field, nothing has stopped. The decision is still Hezbollah’s decision.”
It is not even clear how such decisions are formulated. Even though Hezbollah has two cabinet ministers, proposals are passed through Nabih Berri, the head of the Amal Party and Hezbollah’s onetime rival as the voice of the Shiite Muslim working class.
Lebanese officials said that once Mr. Berri passed on the proposals, nobody was quite sure what happened. Hezbollah officials are either unreachable or mum.
But Sheik Nasrallah is definitely in touch. He gloats over the evident confusion reflected in the Israeli news media about their military offensive. He is known to have read the
autobiographies of Israel’s prime ministers. He always calls Israel “the Zionist entity,” maintaining that all Jewish immigrants should return to their countries of origin and that there should be one Palestine with equality for Muslims, Jews and Christians.
In the past, when Israel advanced into Lebanon against Palestinian fighters, the Palestinians would defend fixed positions, then retreat toward Beirut as each line fell.
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Hassan M. Fattah contributed reporting from Beirut, Lebanon, for this article.
More Articles in International »
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#260 Posted by bulleya on August 7, 2006 3:17:46 pm
Hutchins = Hitchens
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#259 Posted by bulleya on August 7, 2006 3:15:51 pm
Zeemax............Galloway is an excellent debator. Him and Tariq Ali, both..........The reason is that they both go on the offensive and have all the facts..........Anyone who has all the facts on state terrorism vs. individual terrorism and can articulate them eloquently will always have those supporting state terrorism on the back foot.......

I saw Galloway make a fool of Christopher Hutchins in a debate.......Then I saw Tariq Ali do the same to Hutchins.......However the best show was when Galloway was invited to the US Congress and accused of supporting Saddam..........He went after the two Congressmen who were on the committee with such intensity that they immediately called off the proceedings..........

The media plays a huge role in all state terrorism. It convinces a population that the agressor is actually the victim. It hides state terrorism and highlights individual terrorism. The population buys it and pretty soon everyone supports state terrorism........

In fact, I am always surprised at the amount of support state terrorism has in many parts of the world; specifically in the USA. Far more support than what OBL has in the Muslim world...........

The results of this conflict will be interesting..........The Arabs are finally fighting back......It is only when one group fights back in a unified manner that the other group thinks about negotiation..........And I think more and more of the world is starting to realize that state terrorism, more than any other terrorism, is the problem...........

All said and done, at the expense of sounding racist, I would rather spend time with an Israeli than with most Arabs (due to Arabs` racist attitudes towards desis) and would probably visit Israel before Saudi Arabia (though Dubai is nice), but I think blame should be placed on the country initiating the terrorism and the one that is doing the most killing...........Which in this case is Israel...........

The Prime Minister of Lebanaon was crying at the Arab League conference.........The Lebanese govt. has refused to accept the UN proposed resolution.........They have refused to denounce Hezbollah and are infact speaking in favor of it......Ironically, the Israeli govt. is stating that they are doing all this for the Lebanese govt.!!
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#258 Posted by echoboom on August 7, 2006 3:06:18 pm
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#257 Posted by Urstruly on August 7, 2006 2:19:23 pm

Zeemax

Thank you for posting Galloway`s interview. I really appreciate that. In this case, I think interviewer got off easy. A couple of month I get a chance to hear the censored version of Ramsey Clarke`s interview, while he was acting as a monitor to Saddam`s trial. In that case Ramsey had the interviwer almost in tears.
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#256 Posted by iron_mask on August 7, 2006 2:00:41 pm
Re: # 246
zeemax that was a wondeul clip from galloway. Thank youfor this. now if you seperate out the bombast and make beleive fight on screen, you will see that Galloway was echoing The bush-Blair position:

Meaningful cease-fire was his cry the key was the last 1.5 minutes of the interview/clip.

And yetthis was what you guys were refusing to have since the war started. foret he silly rethoric - that was for the midless yobs who runn his leafletting campaign in Bethnal Green area. The real message was there...his position is no different from the BB postion!
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#255 Posted by iron_mask on August 7, 2006 1:46:53 pm
seemax and echo sahib
#220 by iron_mask on August 7, 2006 1:51am PT
There have been some 2000 odd interacts/posts on this subject so far. (actually more than this I lost count and interest once I reached this figure) And as yet I have not been able to understand what gives with the desis. I have a few questions to ask of the people here

(a) What does this conflict in the Middle East mean to you?
(b) Why do you want a cease fire?
(c) Do you really believe a cease fire will hold?
(i) If ``yes`` Why?
(ii) if ``no`` why will not hold, and what will make it hold?
(d)What is there in it for You?

You = Desi`s, American Desis (those born and broght up in des but working in American or the west), Desi American (those born in Des but brought up in America and living there, or those born there).

I would be most grateful if you could answer the questions in the order posed. If you want to post pages, plesae make sure that there are enuf citations to make sense of the psot so that we can delinate fact from personal opinion, and fact from wishful thinking.

Thank you all.
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#254 Posted by echoboom on August 7, 2006 1:09:16 pm
Iqbal is NOT talking about the great Panjabis who were passionate about muslims & Islam & cared & felt for muslims all over the world.

He is talking about those of his fellow Punjabis( sad sad) who always looked to be #2 in life. The ones who look for masters & areafraid to visit the Bungalow even when the illegal-occupants have been kicked out.

These servant-quarter canines alway wonder: Jee now who will order us what to do. Hae rabba whom shall we serve now. NO more Badnaam Singh Guurnaam Kaur that we can dom some bum-breakfast. No moe John Bull or Jane Cow around to get their bum-salamis
for dinner.

Panjabi Musalmaan


loose , easy english, translation:

In matter religious, he is very accomodating
Priciples for him are just pragmatism, priorities
Where learning & scholarship offers challenges
He runs away and tries to use his common-sense
and if somes doles out packaged-knowledge
He immediatley chooses masters who offers him good-life, comfort
and if anyone offers him an interpretation (of scripture) that seem goody-goody
he immediately falls in their trap & loves to become a caged -bird.




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#253 Posted by zeemax on August 7, 2006 12:28:47 pm
#251 by echoboom

Well said ...
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#252 Posted by Faruk on August 7, 2006 12:25:31 pm
Re hamdim2 / tahmed32# various
“Indian Muslims are weird….”

Coming from a bunch of Paki’s that’s a big complement….


appreciate it….

Regards,


Faruk
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#251 Posted by echoboom on August 7, 2006 12:19:45 pm
This needs no ``analysis``


Two2 from Lalkurtee:`` sirjee, eh analysis kinoo kenhday ney?

The Cantinement canine: ``Puttar juddoan dimaag dee bjaaey buund nooN use kro, yaaneeN bundaaN lrRao, ohnoo analyisis kehnday naiN. Anal angraichee`ch buund nooN kenday naiN. tehnooN Bhonkan-House angraijee sUkool paijyaa fer vee puuchhnaa eiN?``
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listing 80-96   1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11

Interact Index

    #345 ShoreSahib
    #344 wiseguyin
    #343 echoboom
    #342 masadi
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    #339 zeemax
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    #336 ShoreSahib
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    #332 harish_hyd
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    #330 tahmed32
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    #327 bulleya
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    #325 Behram1
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    #323 Behram1
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    #322 echoboom
    #321 tahmed32
    #320 ShoreSahib
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    #318 zeemax
    #317 tahmed32
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    #315 tahmed32
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    #291 iron_mask
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    #288 masadi
    #287 zeemax
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    #279 zeemax
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    #277 masadi
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    #273 masadi
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    #271 ballukhan
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    #267 ShoreSahib
    #266 ballukhan
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    #264 ShoreSahib
    #263 arjun_m
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    #261 echoboom
    #260 bulleya
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    #258 echoboom
    #257 Urstruly
    #256 iron_mask
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    #248 mohar11
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    #233 vivek
    #232 ballukhan
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    #229 iron_mask
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    #219 VRV
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    #214 harish_hyd
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    #210 arjun_m
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    #207 ballukhan
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    #204 ballukhan
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    #198 Behram1
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    #191 krishna_abcd
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    #188 HP
    #187 VRV
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    #185 mohar11
    #184 echoboom
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    #170 ballukhan
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    #164 ballukhan
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    #158 ballukhan
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    #144 Behram1
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    #136 Behram1
    #135 iron_mask
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    #133 bulleya
    #132 hamidm2
    #131 echoboom
    #130 Behram1
    #129 hamidm2
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    #123 ballukhan
    #122 arjun_m
    #121 uba
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    #119 faisaluno
    #118 ballukhan
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    #112 Behram1
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    #109 einsteinwallah
    #108 bulleya
    #107 Behram1
    #106 krishna_abcd
    #105 arjun_m
    #104 hamidm2
    #103 tahmed32
    #102 faisaluno
    #101 echoboom
    #100 faisaluno
    #99 Salim_Chauhan
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    #96 arjun_m
    #95 ModiForPM
    #94 echoboom
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    #90 Salim_Chauhan
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    #87 HP
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    #83 arjun_m
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    #81 anil
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    #78 kaurasach
    #77 tahmed32
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    #73 arjun_m
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    #69 mohar11
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    #65 Salim_Chauhan
    #64 Salim_Chauhan
    #63 echoboom
    #62 krishna_abcd
    #61 bulleya
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    #59 iron_mask
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    #57 iron_mask
    #56 tahmed32
    #55 Inquirer
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    #50 harish_hyd
    #49 ferozk
    #48 anil
    #47 ballukhan
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    #45 akhanusa
    #44 delhiwala
    #43 Bj003
    #42 tahmed32
    #41 iron_mask
    #40 mantra
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    #38 wiseguyin
    #37 Inquirer
    #36 Urstruly
    #35 hamidm2
    #34 Inquirer
    #33 echoboom
    #32 Urstruly
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    #30 mantra
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    #27 Urstruly
    #26 soysauce
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    #23 vivek
    #22 Urstruly
    #21 bulleya
    #20 pmishra2
    #19 HisExcellency
    #18 Bj003
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    #16 khamkhwa
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    #14 CheGuevara
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    #11 Inquirer
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