The Myth of the New India

What happened to 3rd part of lovestory from Colorado/Jasmine. Editors should remind Rajasahib about that. I almost forgot about that

Re: # 136
DM... I mean to say had not bad. If you look at type set machine h and b are over each other and I have real problem. Hope readers will forgive and mentally correct spellings. I get confused by neighbourhood letters. Just explaination as inadvertendly some times gives feeling of disrespect.

Re: # 130

Dear DM , I felt better see your interactions. I was little fearful if you are not keeping good health as you bad been absent. So please accept my frindly respects to you.You are one of most matured gentleman here and your prescence is therupetic. I am reasonable shape for month or so but its like hormonic motion, anxity leading to depression and depression leading to anxity.I am taking minimal medicines one for GDA- general anxity reducer and other to keep mood with less amplitude and occilations. Its like diabetis , it can not be cured so endure and control.

I am afraid you may be wrong factually. PM J.Nehru died in 1964-1965. If i understand correct nehru family was getting good money for elections from tatas so they have cardial relationships. I suspect Mr.Desai did strike tatas with air india and domestic airline as he was angry with Tata company support to Nehru and gandhis and congress.

Is air india and its sister domestc sister still govt co or is publically traded co ? When it was govt co was it traded on Indian bourses?
India skyies will be over crowded soon. I was looking at BBC news and its appears almost 300 brand new planes will be added to airfleet in India. There are almost over 100 firm orders and options for 200. With only 6 to 7 airports wonder how can they even manage to park, maintain, refuel and take off and land. Will air india aqnd its sister will vanishes in game of survival of fittest? It is estimated Indian airplane of air India has 530 service people manning each plane. It is possible due to small no of planes ( 30 to 40) with minimum infrastructure to run this strange happens.

I read figure 80% of indian capital markets are under Govt controlled sector. Real interest rates in India are pretty high so capital is expensive. So the resources should be provided to playesrs who use and create wealth and denied resources to mismanaged companies who do not create wealth. It is serious economic crime to waste capital when there is crunch. I also use to feel for socialism when I was young and immature and as I matured understood the utility of equity markets and how efficiently they do that job with out any imposed rules. They follow simple ways of life and devoid of idealogy where results are not accepted. It is said that 90% of Indian equity markets are controlled by Govt insurance companies, they call shots and manipulate markets. If even Govt control on equity markets is reduced to 40% then inputs will be naturally directed leading to creation of wealth. Presently I have studied pakistani transport companies and want to look at goods transportation. I plan to write a article if my mental health allows.
Sorry for disturbing , again happy to see you reacting. Hope we will some articles on Indian music. Good day.

jang#133:

``i am not sure what killed them..trade-unions and inability to inject capital (import-tarrifs e.g.) are some causes i suspect.``

It was primarily the latter. Datta Samant and his union played a role in Bombay but, I suspect, he merely provided an excuse to the owners who were making losses while sitting over golden pieces of real estates.

[I met an old friend in Bombay last month who declined an offer of Rs 100 crore for the suburban land on which their mothballed mill sat two decades ago.]

zeemax #105

`` You go on with this entire dillitante discourse on economics and in the end you say:

So do you favour liberalization, or not? You seem confused to me. ``

define liberalization. i will tell where i stand.

no two people are going to agree on every aspect of detailed public policy. my approach is to agree with the main fundamentals of the policy. minor details hopefully have a way of resolving themselves in the long run.

`` I really don`t know why India has this special tax treaty with Mauritius. Perhaps it`s because Mauritius is Hindu, right? In my opinion neither you, nor India, know whether they`re coming or going.``

tax treaty with mauritius has nothing to do with religion. Money has no religion.

I know where and how India can and should evolve. Of course things have a funny way of evolving in real life.

#130 even the textile indutry was very well-developed in india, concentrated in bombay and ahmedabad (and DCM), and much of economic boom of bombay was based on mills pre-independance. i am not sure what killed them..trade-unions and inability to inject capital (import-tarrifs e.g.) are some causes i suspect.

zeemax #120

`` Providing basic necesities of surival for a billion plus population, let alone raising their standard of living, is a herculean task - to say the least. China had to undergo 50 years of closed economy, uniforms, bicycles, ruthless and inhuman laws, massacres during cultural revolution plus some, to arrive to colour TVs. ``

If you are fond of Great Leap Forward and Cultural Revolution please start them in Pakistan. I am not going to stop you.

`` So Nehru may be excused for having to walk the tightrope between communism / socialism / capitalism all at the same time and slipping. He did set a direction though, which was abandoned by India in early 90s instead of taking remedial measures. When huge nations such as India make mistakes, these prove to be extremely costly and nearly impossible to reverse over the short-term. ``

There is nothing remedial about dismantling white elephants in Indian public sector.

`` There is really no leap-frog solution to the value-addition problem. Some countries like Pakistan/India think it can be done through liberalisation, but that not only produces income disparities as you see in both these countries, but also results in little `real` value addition indigenously. ``

You are right. Indians need to add value. They are finally doing it in the software sector.

`` The process of value-addition has to commence with import substitution of capital goods with establishment of large state-sector heavy industries just as Nehru did, which employed hundreds of thousands of mostly unskilled/semi-skilled people. As this phase develops, the levels of skills are enhanced alongwith wage-growth, and the next stage can be reached of import substitution of consumer goods which absorbs the higher skills and can sustain the higher wage levels. Once all import substitution is completed, the available pool of skills are sufficient to sustain a move to export orientation of manufactured goods which entails highly competetive skills and wage levels. Once ALL the foregoing phases are completed, only then it is time to move into service exports because then, your life does not depend on it, and most of your population is reasonably skilled and gainfully employed at various stages of the value-addition chain. ``

Please parse the first sentence.

`` The process of value-addition has to commence with import substitution of capital goods with establishment of large state-sector heavy industries just as Nehru did, which employed hundreds of thousands of mostly unskilled/semi-skilled people.``

modern capital goods are most technology intensive and the most capital intensive. You want a country like India/Pakistan to focus on that.

Technology has evolved since Marx wrote Das Kapital. Steel mills are highly mechanized employing a fraction of the labor they used to. Most of the labor is medium to high in terms of skills. Unskilled workers are toast even in the USA.

`` Can you see from above that even though India started out in the correct direction, but hopscotched over a few stages of value-addition and jumped head-long into what should have been the last? ``

It is true that India might bypass heavy manufacturing to becoming a R&D powerhouse unlike Singapore, Malaysia, Thailand, Taiwan. So what ?

zeemax #106

`` service sector as in ?? ... Wal mart is not allowed.

Walmart is trading, retail selling. It is not service sector, though maybe in the broadest and silliest definition. Pure service-sector is all that software and call-centres which you guys have set up for foreigners. ``

What is wrong with service sector liberalization in India ?

zeemax#120:

I may be an economist by training but my observations are based on common sense. I think that you are unaware of the details of the working of the Indian economy, at least in the earlier era. I am not doctinaire and would admit that there may be time or circumstances in which the govt. might go into commercial enterprise, but in India most of this was unnecessary. Let`s take the example of steel. India had a steel factory in the private sector going back a century to 1905. But under the Industrial Policy of 1956, this steel company was banned from expanding production as all steel production henceworth was going to be in the public sector. Now, after liberalisation, Tatas have expanded their steel production and have emerged as the lowest cost steel producer in the world, beating even South Korea`s POS. Another example is Airlines. India had an airline going back to 1930 and by 1950s, Air India was a well-respected small airline known for its excellent service and punctuality. Nehru decided to nationalise this efficient company and turned it into an inefficient loss-making airline that only Indians on govt. business wanted to travel on.

As for consumer goods industries, most Asian countries, starting with Japan started with textile manufacturing and exports, esp textiles, to more developed countries. These industries peoduce large number of jobs, especially for the unskilled and semi-skilled labour. As consumer industries expand, a market develops for capital goods and one cam move up the chain from consumer to capital goods. Even Indian planners were aware of the job-creating prospects of these industries and provided a prominent role to them in the private sector. However, they limited them to small scale industries; so Indians were producing garments in inefficient small and cottage industries, which were heavily subsidised by the government and yet produced poor quality textiles at high prices.

As for service sector, they too can produce large number of jobs - not only in places like call centres but in areas such as health and education. Indians seem to be full of optimism at the prospect of medical tourism, although no reliable data are available on the jobs produced in these sectors.

As has been said a million times, Indians need to improve their infrastructure, especially roads and electricity. But more than that, they need to be thinking also of environment and sustainable growth.

kisan @128: that is an insightful and informative post. it is indeed true, as your post indicates, that for the right kind of investors to invest (i.e. ruling out speculators in real estate, but including world class organizations like microsoft and nokia), you need both the physical infrastructure (roads, reliable power supply) as well as legal and social infrastructure (low crime rates, lack of religious or communist extremism).

Yes, there is a lot of hype over Indian development. But yes there is a hell of a lot of development going on in certain places.

Recently I was in Jaipur and the buildings coming up there are amazing as well as 3 lane roads in either direction. It is an amazing transformation. Go away and come back in 6 months and you will be stunned at the new buildings that have come up.

The same thing is there in Delhi in parts with Gurgaon looking like a Tiger economy location.

In Bangalore driving through Koramangala today and visiting a large mall with 12 cinemas I can see that in certain places India is booming. This is limited to only various locations though and even in these places there is shocking poverty.

1.3 million jobs will create a mass of other flow on jobs as people cater to these well earning people but yes it is only a small scale start.

The author is sympathetic to the communist cause and wherever the communists (either political faction or violent revolutionary type) are in sway the massive advances are not in evidence.

Who will invest time and money in a place where you might be murdered or kidnapped for being a wicked exploiter? I certainly have second thoughts about investing in a Naxal affected area where desperately poor relatives live. In Kerala where there is abundant natural resources and even a well educated populace with a communist Govt when going there I was surprised by the terrible state of the roads and the complete absence of development of industries and basic facilities.

Aside from this however Indian manufacturing is growing rapidly in quality and sophistication. I bought a Nokia phone in Asia last week and it was made in India, certainly not what I thought would be the manufacturing place.

As India liberalises imports and the protected industries nurtured in their inefficiency by socialist protectionism have to face Chinese imports suddenly instead of closing their factories down some of these substandard manufacturers suddenly lift their game and start making decent product importing modern machinery and innovating.

In the last week I saw massive technical improvements in products that were made by hand now made by machines. As this low tech technique shifts to to mechanised work these workers in inefficient wishy washy Gandhian village manufacturing can join more efficient production techniques.

Progress is going on across the Country and despite a hell of a long way to go the progress is gathering in momentum.

This mechanism will lift India rapidly if it can avoid religious fundamentalism and communist fundamentalism.......

zeemax: Here`s a small sampling of the menial jobs the indians are doing for the foreigners..

Monster search for Verilog

You probably don`t know verilog from a donut so here

Those damn Indians are just code coolies..and the grapes were sour AND poisonous..

yeah..netsol is giving the leaders of which market segment a run for their money? It`s only on the radar in Pakiworld...

#124 by arjun-nath_miromal

LoL ... I told you might need burnol.

Abey dhoti lal chamoona mal, NASDAQ is in the real world.. not Pakiworld.

And don`t produce figures. You asked `holding their own` didn`t you?

#123 by zeemax on August 9, 2006 2:33am PT



Netsol Technolgies Inc (


I said world, not pakiworld(the magical mystical place where all of paki delusions are reality)

Take NetSol for instance...They may be big in Pakiworld, but in the real world..

http://finance.yahoo.com/q?s=NTWK

Last Trade: 1.52
Market Cap: 23.03M

Key statistics:

http://finance.yahoo.com/q/ks?s=NTWK

Revenue (ttm): 18.51M
Qtrly Revenue Growth (yoy): 58.10%
Gross Profit (ttm): 7.68M
Qtrly Earnings Growth (yoy): -82.80%

Need a shot of reality with your morning coffee?

#89 by arjun-nath_miromal

Face it: you can`t name 3 paki pvt sector companies that can hold their own in the world. Forget 3..name 1..

Netsol Technolgies Inc (NASDAQ: NTWK).

Need Burnol?