Gull R Khan August 10, 2006
#16 Posted by PewResearch on April 6, 2007 7:44:23 am
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EXCERPT: Interview with Pakistan president Musharraf
September 23, 2005
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| During a tape-recorded, 50-minute interview with the Washington Post, Pakistan president Gen. Pervez Musharraf said that claiming rape has become a ``moneymaking concern`` in Pakistan. Musharraf later denied saying this to the Post. Here is a recording of the quote in the 12th paragraph of the Sept. 12 story. The remark was made in regards to the case of Mukhtar Mai, an illiterate woman who spoke publicly about having been gang-raped on the orders of a village council in 2002. |
© 2005 Washingtonpost.Newsweek Interactive
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#14 Posted by malang on August 24, 2006 4:46:46 am
No, not that hopeless. Proof.
Good news, and bad
Kamran Shafi
The News
2006-08-19
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=20363
First things first then, and because the matter was spoken of much in this column, good on the ISI high command / the big general himself for taking action against the officers who acted badly in the case concerning Brig Taj Mohammad SJ And Bar and his family. The grapevine tells me a colonel has been dismissed from service while two majors had their contracts cancelled.
Whilst that is good and well, as my friend Ashraf Afridi used to say, why is it that this disciplinary action against people who surely overstepped the bounds makes us felicitate the powers? Why am I giving them kudos for something that should come naturally and fast and as soon as the transgression happens? Specially in an organisation as sensitive, and as prone to criticism as the ISI, and which should show alacrity in stamping out anything that gives it a bad name?
That is because ``agencies`` as powerful as the ISI, think with some justification that they are superior to everyone else, and that therefore they are beyond reproach. Neither is it only the ISI: virtually any important government department in this country thinks it is above the law. Their justification for thinking so comes from the fact that they are often used by governments to further their own political imperatives -- sort of like, if I may take liberties with the old adage, ``you scratch my back and I`ll look the other way``. Anyway, reason to be happy that at long last, action has been taken against its own by an important Pakistani state actor.
One very important point: you and I are as Pakistani as the army, the ISI, what have you. Why then the need for such extreme secrecy (I mean it is not as if the agency`s operational plans were involved) for so many weeks, and then the leaks that action had been taken against the transgressors? Indeed, the secrecy was so great that we do not even now know the names of two of those that sullied the name of the ISI and of the Pakistan Army. What was the harm in announcing in the full light of day, the start of the inquiry proceedings against the culprits and then giving periodic updates through the ISPR on the progress of the case? Why the big secret? I mean if elected ex-prime ministers can be dragged through the mud on live TV every other day by sitting ministers no less, why can`t the names of junior ISI officers who prove too big for their boots be revealed? It is also to be noted that if the affair had been opened to public scrutiny it would have died a quicker death rather than be debated for weeks in the press.
Good news, and bad
Kamran Shafi
The News
2006-08-19
http://www.thenews.com.pk/daily_detail.asp?id=20363
First things first then, and because the matter was spoken of much in this column, good on the ISI high command / the big general himself for taking action against the officers who acted badly in the case concerning Brig Taj Mohammad SJ And Bar and his family. The grapevine tells me a colonel has been dismissed from service while two majors had their contracts cancelled.
Whilst that is good and well, as my friend Ashraf Afridi used to say, why is it that this disciplinary action against people who surely overstepped the bounds makes us felicitate the powers? Why am I giving them kudos for something that should come naturally and fast and as soon as the transgression happens? Specially in an organisation as sensitive, and as prone to criticism as the ISI, and which should show alacrity in stamping out anything that gives it a bad name?
That is because ``agencies`` as powerful as the ISI, think with some justification that they are superior to everyone else, and that therefore they are beyond reproach. Neither is it only the ISI: virtually any important government department in this country thinks it is above the law. Their justification for thinking so comes from the fact that they are often used by governments to further their own political imperatives -- sort of like, if I may take liberties with the old adage, ``you scratch my back and I`ll look the other way``. Anyway, reason to be happy that at long last, action has been taken against its own by an important Pakistani state actor.
One very important point: you and I are as Pakistani as the army, the ISI, what have you. Why then the need for such extreme secrecy (I mean it is not as if the agency`s operational plans were involved) for so many weeks, and then the leaks that action had been taken against the transgressors? Indeed, the secrecy was so great that we do not even now know the names of two of those that sullied the name of the ISI and of the Pakistan Army. What was the harm in announcing in the full light of day, the start of the inquiry proceedings against the culprits and then giving periodic updates through the ISPR on the progress of the case? Why the big secret? I mean if elected ex-prime ministers can be dragged through the mud on live TV every other day by sitting ministers no less, why can`t the names of junior ISI officers who prove too big for their boots be revealed? It is also to be noted that if the affair had been opened to public scrutiny it would have died a quicker death rather than be debated for weeks in the press.
#13 Posted by teshah on August 12, 2006 7:42:11 pm
Re: # 10
Falasuf
I happened to see the evil genius of ZAB in operation from very close quarters. He created FSF which was a covert attempt on his part to counterpoise the army. I cannot forget the remarks of Mr Mubashshir, the then finance minister, on the proposal for creation of FSF. He remarked ``I am afraid this force will turn into an anti-people force``. How prophetic! This force not only turned to be an anti-people one but also proved to be instrumental in the execution of ZAB himself.
It would be interesting to see the remarks of ZAB on the note of Mubashir to read how his mind worked. He had remarked derisively, ``Let us hold a meeting to discuss among other things the philosophical content of Mr Mubashir`s note``.
He was going to provide tanks to the FSF with the avowed object of breaking barriers during a civil commotion when the army struck and their first target after coming into power was the FSF.
May God bless Bhutto; his was perhaps the lost attempt to end army`s hegemony in the state created by the power of the people. The fact now is as Pir Pagara had remarked, ``Countries do have armies but the Pak army have a country``. The question now is `Who owns the Pakarmy?`.
Falasuf
I happened to see the evil genius of ZAB in operation from very close quarters. He created FSF which was a covert attempt on his part to counterpoise the army. I cannot forget the remarks of Mr Mubashshir, the then finance minister, on the proposal for creation of FSF. He remarked ``I am afraid this force will turn into an anti-people force``. How prophetic! This force not only turned to be an anti-people one but also proved to be instrumental in the execution of ZAB himself.
It would be interesting to see the remarks of ZAB on the note of Mubashir to read how his mind worked. He had remarked derisively, ``Let us hold a meeting to discuss among other things the philosophical content of Mr Mubashir`s note``.
He was going to provide tanks to the FSF with the avowed object of breaking barriers during a civil commotion when the army struck and their first target after coming into power was the FSF.
May God bless Bhutto; his was perhaps the lost attempt to end army`s hegemony in the state created by the power of the people. The fact now is as Pir Pagara had remarked, ``Countries do have armies but the Pak army have a country``. The question now is `Who owns the Pakarmy?`.
#12 Posted by hamzan on August 12, 2006 1:31:18 pm
§§§ Our air chief, Air Chief Marshal Tanvir Mehmood Ahmed, after meeting the Punjab governor in Lahore, told reporters the other day that the Lebanese prime minister was forced to cry before the media because of the weak defence capability of his country (Dawn, page 12, Aug 9). §§§
To this, commented Ayaz Amir in Dawn on Friday, August 11, 2006 as:
§§§ As silly statements go, it takes the prize. Despite its huge army, Pakistan has shown itself incapable of fighting a war for longer than 15 days. Barely halfway through the 1965 war Pakistan`s straw field marshal, Ayub Khan, had had enough. He was desperate for a ceasefire. In 1971Gen Yahya and his generals fought a 17-day war and managed to lose half the country.
In 1999 the architects of Kargil -- as choice a bunch of military geniuses as any produced by the Pakistan army -- thought they were walking in the footsteps of Rommel and Manstein. They soon realized they had bitten off more than they could chew. Desperate for a way out, they urged then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to rush to Washington to seek a face-saving withdrawal.
Given these shining military exploits it ill-behoves a Pakistani military man to speak disparagingly about Lebanon when Lebanon -- a country scarcely bigger than Sargodha and Rawalpindi divisions combined -- has shown more guts than we can imagine.
Hezbollah has no F-16s, no anti-aircraft defences to speak of, yet it has fought the might of the Israeli army for four weeks and continues to stand up to it. No Arab army has shown as much grit, none has fought Israel this long. And far from Hezbollah breaking, it is Israel which is getting stuck in South Lebanon.
An air force chief is a responsible person. He should choose his words more carefully. Pakistan has not had the courage or decency to condemn Israel in forthright terms, our government mumbling things no one can understand and adopting a position no one can see. When we can`t do the honourable thing, why say things which make us look stupid?
Pakistan has acquired international fame for being a one-phone-call country, a single Colin Powell call after Sep 11 eliciting all the concessions the US wanted, including the use of military bases. Our military government felt no qualms about handing over the Taliban`s accredited ambassador to Islamabad, Mullah Zaeef, to the Americans when they attacked Afghanistan.
Zaeef may have been Hitler`s ambassador but he was accredited to us and we were sworn under international law to protect him. We didn`t. What moral authority do we have to speak about the troubles of another country?
Addressing Arab League foreign ministers in Beirut, the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora was overcome by emotion when speaking of Israel`s aggression against his country. When was the last time a Pakistani leader was overcome by similar emotion?
We are a country at peace with Afghanistan one day and then, at the crack of a whip from Washington, involved in its destruction the next, glorifying Kashmir`s freedom struggle and then overnight dancing to India`s tune. India has turned the composite dialogue into a joke and yet by every word and gesture at our command we are trying to please India. §§§
Our generals leave one speechless. It is incredible how dim-witted they are. The defence of Pakistan is in hands of such a capable star officers Pakistanis could take Valium for having a sound sleep at night.
To this, commented Ayaz Amir in Dawn on Friday, August 11, 2006 as:
§§§ As silly statements go, it takes the prize. Despite its huge army, Pakistan has shown itself incapable of fighting a war for longer than 15 days. Barely halfway through the 1965 war Pakistan`s straw field marshal, Ayub Khan, had had enough. He was desperate for a ceasefire. In 1971Gen Yahya and his generals fought a 17-day war and managed to lose half the country.
In 1999 the architects of Kargil -- as choice a bunch of military geniuses as any produced by the Pakistan army -- thought they were walking in the footsteps of Rommel and Manstein. They soon realized they had bitten off more than they could chew. Desperate for a way out, they urged then Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif to rush to Washington to seek a face-saving withdrawal.
Given these shining military exploits it ill-behoves a Pakistani military man to speak disparagingly about Lebanon when Lebanon -- a country scarcely bigger than Sargodha and Rawalpindi divisions combined -- has shown more guts than we can imagine.
Hezbollah has no F-16s, no anti-aircraft defences to speak of, yet it has fought the might of the Israeli army for four weeks and continues to stand up to it. No Arab army has shown as much grit, none has fought Israel this long. And far from Hezbollah breaking, it is Israel which is getting stuck in South Lebanon.
An air force chief is a responsible person. He should choose his words more carefully. Pakistan has not had the courage or decency to condemn Israel in forthright terms, our government mumbling things no one can understand and adopting a position no one can see. When we can`t do the honourable thing, why say things which make us look stupid?
Pakistan has acquired international fame for being a one-phone-call country, a single Colin Powell call after Sep 11 eliciting all the concessions the US wanted, including the use of military bases. Our military government felt no qualms about handing over the Taliban`s accredited ambassador to Islamabad, Mullah Zaeef, to the Americans when they attacked Afghanistan.
Zaeef may have been Hitler`s ambassador but he was accredited to us and we were sworn under international law to protect him. We didn`t. What moral authority do we have to speak about the troubles of another country?
Addressing Arab League foreign ministers in Beirut, the Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora was overcome by emotion when speaking of Israel`s aggression against his country. When was the last time a Pakistani leader was overcome by similar emotion?
We are a country at peace with Afghanistan one day and then, at the crack of a whip from Washington, involved in its destruction the next, glorifying Kashmir`s freedom struggle and then overnight dancing to India`s tune. India has turned the composite dialogue into a joke and yet by every word and gesture at our command we are trying to please India. §§§
Our generals leave one speechless. It is incredible how dim-witted they are. The defence of Pakistan is in hands of such a capable star officers Pakistanis could take Valium for having a sound sleep at night.
#11 Posted by hozeifa on August 12, 2006 9:58:17 am
On the subject under discussion I would like to recommend you all to check the following links
Cover Story
The New Land Barons?
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover1jul2006.htm
Editorial
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/editornotejul2006.htm
General Figures
How much is a general worth in real estate terms?
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover2jul2006.htm
Interview
Major General Shaukat Sultan
DG, ISPR
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover3jul2006.htm
Cover Story
The New Land Barons?
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover1jul2006.htm
Editorial
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/editornotejul2006.htm
General Figures
How much is a general worth in real estate terms?
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover2jul2006.htm
Interview
Major General Shaukat Sultan
DG, ISPR
http://www.newsline.com.pk/NewsJul2006/cover3jul2006.htm
#10 Posted by Faylasuf on August 12, 2006 4:13:08 am
Nice piece of work G.R. Khan, and a witty title indeed.
@teshah - Z.A.B is referred to as an evil genius..or rather say a genius who used his intelect negatively
do u hav ne idea why he did all of that?
@M.M.Imran- imran sb i do respect yr opinion and well i wz among those who felt that u vr comin too hard on the Army, i v persnly knwn ppl in the institution n they vr not the canibls the articl projected em as, so i said wht i felt.
i dont really disagree with the faults and after readin yr piece i did actually started takin note of the events more closely and well i agree that things are gettin scarier day by day. bt wht practicl altrnativ solution do v hav? politicians?the moulvi?
the other day i wz talkin to a friend an the topic came up
Gen Mushy is eatin up evy thing, thrz loads of corruption n every thing..
c v can think for a moment..ok take away mushy...then...choose the best answer
C.T.B.T. or B.B. with 1.5
@teshah - Z.A.B is referred to as an evil genius..or rather say a genius who used his intelect negatively
do u hav ne idea why he did all of that?
@M.M.Imran- imran sb i do respect yr opinion and well i wz among those who felt that u vr comin too hard on the Army, i v persnly knwn ppl in the institution n they vr not the canibls the articl projected em as, so i said wht i felt.
i dont really disagree with the faults and after readin yr piece i did actually started takin note of the events more closely and well i agree that things are gettin scarier day by day. bt wht practicl altrnativ solution do v hav? politicians?the moulvi?
the other day i wz talkin to a friend an the topic came up
Gen Mushy is eatin up evy thing, thrz loads of corruption n every thing..
c v can think for a moment..ok take away mushy...then...choose the best answer
C.T.B.T. or B.B. with 1.5
#9 Posted by hnasir on August 12, 2006 3:57:17 am
I marvel at the personalities and characters of both Major “Tipu” and the main villain of the story the major general who orchestrated the whole drama.
First, Tipu. Is he really a major or just a batman of some general? Is Tipu a commissioned officer or just a personal servant/bodyguard of a war lord? Or is he a contract killer that can be hired for settling personal scores?
Second, if 30 yars of training and service, a large number of courses, command stints have failed to improve him then what type of human being he must be and what type of the organisation Pak army is?
Furthermore, pertinent to ponder that what was going in the head of that major when he was receiving orders from that general to fix those bloody civilians up? What was “Tipu” thinking when he was beating or supervising the beating of Mr. Taj (he was a retired brigadier or war veteran then what, it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue nor it makes the subject matter more serious)? What was he feeling when a woman (again the detail has no importance whether she was daughter, granddaughter or daughter-in-law of an X, Y or Z) was being dishonoured in front of him? Was “Tipu” acting as a judge, jury or executioner?
Most important of all, I would like to know how both major Tipu and that major General Nusrat feel today. Are they ashamed, petrified or they simply don’t understand what the hell this fuss is all about?
First, Tipu. Is he really a major or just a batman of some general? Is Tipu a commissioned officer or just a personal servant/bodyguard of a war lord? Or is he a contract killer that can be hired for settling personal scores?
Second, if 30 yars of training and service, a large number of courses, command stints have failed to improve him then what type of human being he must be and what type of the organisation Pak army is?
Furthermore, pertinent to ponder that what was going in the head of that major when he was receiving orders from that general to fix those bloody civilians up? What was “Tipu” thinking when he was beating or supervising the beating of Mr. Taj (he was a retired brigadier or war veteran then what, it has absolutely nothing to do with the issue nor it makes the subject matter more serious)? What was he feeling when a woman (again the detail has no importance whether she was daughter, granddaughter or daughter-in-law of an X, Y or Z) was being dishonoured in front of him? Was “Tipu” acting as a judge, jury or executioner?
Most important of all, I would like to know how both major Tipu and that major General Nusrat feel today. Are they ashamed, petrified or they simply don’t understand what the hell this fuss is all about?
#8 Posted by teshah on August 11, 2006 8:21:22 pm
It is verily the most daring and truthful article ever written on chowk by a pak-based writer.
Ironically, it was Z.A. Bhutto during whose regime certain laws were enacted against criticism of the army which made the na-pak army a virtual holy cow. He had also created a civil armed force (FSF?) to protect himself from the onslaught of the army. But `Jin pih takiah tha wohi patte hawa dene lage`. He lost his life while saving his chair and the people whom he called `Taaqat ka sarchashmah` became `Na-pak Zimmies`.
Ironically, it was Z.A. Bhutto during whose regime certain laws were enacted against criticism of the army which made the na-pak army a virtual holy cow. He had also created a civil armed force (FSF?) to protect himself from the onslaught of the army. But `Jin pih takiah tha wohi patte hawa dene lage`. He lost his life while saving his chair and the people whom he called `Taaqat ka sarchashmah` became `Na-pak Zimmies`.
#7 Posted by ssaleemi on August 11, 2006 2:15:14 pm
Time to ask: How does it really work in our military offices?
Is it like this?
One possible scenario.
A Major General calls a Major and says, Son, my son was roughed up by some ghoondas.
It is a matter of our collective izzat and naamoos; it is an issue of national importance, and strategic concerns.
We have to teach them a lesson.
Take some jawans with you and beat the hell out of them and their families.
Major salutes and says, your khadim, Sir.
Major orders a dozen or so jawans to get ready.
On their way out, he tells them, that there are some ghaddars who have dared to touch beta saab of general saab. We can never let it go unpunished.
Charge.
All of them rush to the battlefield and write a new chapter of gallantry.
They come back.
Major triumphantly comes back along with his team and reports back to his Major General.
Salutes. Sir, khadim hazir hai.
Mission Accomplished.
We have taught them a lesson they will never ever forget.
Right now some of the culprits are doing takors and some are sewing the clothes we tore apart.
Major Generals: Well done boy. I will recommend you for a fast track promotion.
You may leave now.
Both shout together: Pak Fauj Zindabad.
#6 Posted by Urstruly on August 11, 2006 12:10:41 pm
Re: # 5
Malik sahib
well said. While watching a documentary on Dr. Shazia, the true moment of shame came when they showed the dictator, himself, appear on the rostrem and decalre that no rape occured and the perpetrator of this crime Capt. Hammad was absolutely innocent. No court inquiries, no guilty or innocent verdict by court and this dictator bypasses all established norms of justice. For crying out loud at least they could have at least pretended to have had an inquiry by an ``independent judge``. But no, they have lost any shred of fear of God.
Malik sahib
well said. While watching a documentary on Dr. Shazia, the true moment of shame came when they showed the dictator, himself, appear on the rostrem and decalre that no rape occured and the perpetrator of this crime Capt. Hammad was absolutely innocent. No court inquiries, no guilty or innocent verdict by court and this dictator bypasses all established norms of justice. For crying out loud at least they could have at least pretended to have had an inquiry by an ``independent judge``. But no, they have lost any shred of fear of God.
#5 Posted by malik.m.imran on August 11, 2006 10:20:41 am
It must be some sort of political correctness that Chowk editors opted to put this piece in self-publish section. I fully agree with darvesh#1 that otherwise, by any standard, it deserves to be on the front page.
When chowk [to my utmost pleasure and gratitude] published my write-up “Gang-rape in Sui”, some of friends were of opinion that I came a bit too hard on Pak military. Today, I feel vindicated.
The worthy writer is 100% correct if military officers can stoop to these depths of ignominy that they can manhandle an 80-year old, [it is just a coincidence that he happened to be a retired brigadier] and stripped naked his daughter-in-law, because of a trivial playground brawl of teenagers, every God-damned thing is possible by such b@stards.
Tragedy is that it was definitely not the first time military officers behaving like this. Rest assured, nor did it happen for the last time. Unfortunately, it has become a routine in the land of pure. An officer rank = jagga degree, not better than that. Higher the rank, lower the character. I have at least 50 reports from mainstream print media of Pakistan saved in my PC [for period 2001 – 2006] about incidents where military officers had reportedly behaved worse than third class rascal.
Either, it is already a common practice that military officers rape each others’ daughters, wives, sisters or it is just a mater of time that they will start doing it. Had they hanged that son of a bi t ch in Sui, or at least not tried to hush up the matter, no major “Tipu” would have dared bragging into someone’s house. Due to a mere flip of fate, the victim turned out to be a daughter-in-lae of a highly decorated war veteran. Next time it will be a sister of some ex-corps commander. It stinks. I feel vomiting only to think about the perverted mindset of our military command.
Malik M. Imran
Helsinki
Finland
#4 Posted by Urstruly on August 11, 2006 7:30:35 am
Dear Mr. Khan
Pakistan is living a south american nightmare as we speak - where human life has no value. But NaPak fauj is just one element of a bigger picture. It is a whole ruling class consisting of corrupt, greedy, and godless rodents which have many facets. On one side it has feudals in it, thugs, drug smugglers, Moulvis that make the opposition, and many many more. Military is the muscle that protects and supports this system of oppression where no one has fear of God left in them. It is a system of oppression, torture, and death. Anyone who supports this system with words, with material support, or political support is anti-human and anti-Muslim.
I have seen Dr. Shaazia`s interview and I cried. I have never cried in my life even though the horrible images of human oppression and attrocities are now a norm on tv and internet. But the injustice that is done to Dr. Shaazia by these heartless monsters made me cry. What have we turned our country into. When will we win our freedom from these satans.
#2 Posted by H-Ikram on August 11, 2006 2:12:06 am
I love the title.
Great.
I would have rather opted: NaPak Fauj ke NaPak Generals. No harm in saying the truth. Keep up the good work.
Great.
I would have rather opted: NaPak Fauj ke NaPak Generals. No harm in saying the truth. Keep up the good work.
#1 Posted by Subedar on August 11, 2006 1:17:04 am
What a superb piece.
Chowk editors, it deserves to be on the front page. It deserves to be flagship of chowk.
G R Khan has put the feelings of 160 million Pakistanis – the gang of looters … yeah, yeah in khaki and mufti – in such a blunt way that it must be saluted. Hats off.
Chowk editors, it deserves to be on the front page. It deserves to be flagship of chowk.
G R Khan has put the feelings of 160 million Pakistanis – the gang of looters … yeah, yeah in khaki and mufti – in such a blunt way that it must be saluted. Hats off.
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