A Journey to India

Re: # 15, VRV:

I agree with you a hundred percent. Tipu Sultan can only be compared to Akbar and stands at the same level. Too bad the British did him in by their superior military techniques and equipment.

I am confident the senselessness and virulence of Sanatani, no matter who he/she is not shared by many.

Let us have a toast for Abroo, Salim and malaymishra123!!!

Re: # 17

Don`t get carried away too much in your comparison! Akbar was the Emperor of Mughal India whereas Tipu was not. No doubt , He was a great patriot, tolerant king etc.

He lost his life not because of any superior military techniques of the Bitish but betrayal by other Indians rulers- Maharattas and Nizam who joined the English. It was only a matter of time. Maharattas were finished for all time at the battle of Assaye and Hyderabad came under British rule too. This behaviour was no diffrent. Remember 1000 yrs ago when Prthvi Raj was abandoned by other fellow Rajputs!.

BTW. Tipu Sultan had rocket troops . They used rockets made of bamboo filled with gun powder . it created havoc among among horses and lots of panic. ( Sometimes they posed danger to the very person who fired it as they exploded prematurely !) These were taken to G. Britain and examined and better versions were produced made of iron tubes. These were later used in the bombardment of Copenhagen. Some models can be seen even today in the museums in Britain today.

Kamath

#18 from what i have read various kinds of rockets and propelled armaments were used for a long time in indian warfare..tipu may have a special focus, but details of various mughal-maratha-rajput wars find many references to rockets.

Inquirer #17, {``Let us have a toast for Abroo, Salim and malaymishra123!!!``}

Aap ki sehet keliye. :)

Thanks, I agree that we should work for Indo-Pak understanding. We can agree to disagree and try to find even more common ground than what we already share. I share your admiration for Tipu - May I add Tantya Tope, Nana Sahib (not out and not found to this day - :), Jhaansi ki Rani, and Sirajudawlah?

Various friendly posts,

Everybody has a point but using abuses (MF, SF etc) is not that way Mr. Sanatani, more so when your name is Sanatani.

BTW, I mentioned it wrong on Tipu.. it was irrigation system.

& I saw this Tipu`s mechanical tiger in London Museum.

The author is a decent bloke. We need more of this type in our midst on both sides of Radcliffe Line.

Hey, this was a fantastic piece! We really need more people like Abroo Shah on both sides of the border. I also like Inquirer`s interact.

Re: # 16

Wow all you brainwashed secularists are calling me a Paki. In a very long sense this is true my family came over from West Panjab of undivided India and what is now known as Pakistan and in Kashi, Prayag, Hardwar, Matan, Nasik or Ujjain I give the name of my native place in Pakland alongwith my surname to locate my kul pandit.

So let all you ignoramuses have a look at the following before replying http://bharatvani.org/books/tipu/. If tipu was a patriot then Jinnah and Maudoodi were bigger.

And of course Akbars massacres in Chittor and Gondwana of Hapless Hindus (Oops not Hindus Rajputs, Bhils and Gonds) were mere trifles I mean if other massacred Hindus by the millions akbar did only by hundred of thousands so you are right he was great.

For 1200 years we fought the Muslims but could not find an intellectual answer to one question ``Why do they keep on coming back and fight like this (wholesale masscares poisosning water bodies burning fileds abducting and raping women) even when we forgive them after defeat``, but at least then wee had the backbone to fight. Thanks to clowns like you we will los the fight even without an arrow being fired as the enemy today is within and we refuse to even acknowledge it much less confront it.

God rot you all

No Regards
Sanatani

P.S. In many ways the Pakis at least are clear Kashmir is Jihad, it is about Isam and about the head waters it is simply fools like you who refuse to acknowledge the same, instead Iddiots like you start arguing about Baluchistan, Shia Sunni, Ahmadiya, Biharis, East Pak, hudood, al qaeda, democracy and Indira Nooyi. Whoever said they want kashmir for any of this they want it for the glory of Allah. Islam is about escaping hellfire and getting into jannat not creating jannat on earth.

On another note the Great leader of Pak was jinnah and of India (also Jinnah but we do not recognise him as such) so the acknowledged leaders were Gandhi, Patel, Bose & Nehru. The difference between the intellectual honesties of these is evident in this board. For all their faults at least the Pakis say it on your face, you cannot face the J word so these useless banalities.

As an Israeli told me (An Ashenkazi Jew white European) ``I love you for the way you looked after my people, but have contempt for you beyond belief for your dhimmitude. I mean you are worse than guttersnipes and cockroaches the only race of people where a muslim minority 5th column and 2 Muslim majority enemy nations do not have to even indulge in Takiyah (the Islamic art of decption) to decieve you, as you are willing to do the same for yourself``.

Now I see why the Mozz overran us and will do so again in my lifetime this time permanently.

Interesting reading, a Very vivid description of every thing that Abroo sha saw on his first visit, he seem to have observed lot more in such a short visit. Opinions are unbiased and dispassionate. But there is something I tell my Pakistani friends when they keep harping about common culture and shared lifestyle. India is much more than Hindi movies and Hindustani tongue. Such striking similarities are confined only to some parts of northern India., and as you know majority of Indians are not north Indians. A typical Malayali or tamilian or Telungu or Assemese , or a Naga has very little to share with his Pakistani counter part. Iam a malyali muslim and I have more in common with fellow Christians and Hindus or nigoubering tamilian, or srilanakan or a malasian than with a Pakistani except my faith. We don’t speak Urdu, and is never proud of mugul past. And do not share the same history of invasion and conquest. our food habits and recipes are not the same. i am not saying this because I am offended by such close comparisons or iam apologetic about our shared past. I would like the two countries to come much closer and I wish Mr. abroo sha to get a visa on arrival on his next visit to India. It is just my observation that India has a cultural diversity that an average Pakistanis can never comprehend.

Abroo, your visit to India and description therein was interesting reading but still leaves the BIG question unanswered - did you or did you not eat ``Chinese`` food in India?

Just curious, thanks.

Welcome again, and next time in Bangalore, do ask the driver to take you a bit beyond Mysore, to Ooty, if time and visa permits. Right through Tipu Sultan country, and that may keep some of the neo-defenders of the Faith quiet when you write about Sultan`s Battery.

Ref sanatani #23

Unfortunately, you are battling with idiots who have been brainwashed by JNU professors such as Romila Thapar`s ``history`` books.

As to Akbar, his bones were dragged out of his tomb in Agra shortly after his death and thrown away. So much for the high regard in which he was held at that time!

You are right about Akbar`s massacres. Those who visit Chitorgarh think that the desolate place was depopulated due to some other Sultan. Not so. After every attack, people came back to live in Chitorgarh. But Akbar, after defeating the king of Chitorgarh, killed every man, woman and child there. So much for his broadmindedness.

Tipu Sultan converted all the people in captured lands to Islam. The only ones he dared not touch were the few brahmins whom he kept for astrological predictions.

Sanatani saheb,

We are not denying that there exist a 5th column in India among Muslims. We have an informed understanding of the problem. If our thinking is driven and go in that way, there is doom.... or else if we see glass as half-full and be conscious of the dangers ahead then we live happily.

You can do so many things with your hand.. including committing suicide. How you use your hand is in your hands.

The path you are showing was the beaten track. Many bigots went that way.. we know where it leads to.....You have an alternative... A rainbow society. No country or society is perfect but working in that direction is the sole purpose of this site.. if I am not mistaken.

If we see the informers and spies who worked against India are from all religions. Coomer Narain, Larkins brothers, Joginder Singh...these are not Muslims. Traitors appear in all religions, communities and colours. Recently Modi told that there was a Brahmin boy working for ISI in Bhavnagar.

Akber is really great. Please read Abraham Earlay`s `Mogul India`. It has very very intimate details, quoted directly from the Persian, Urdu chronicles of those times. Moreover the accounts of courtiers and the ambassadors of those times were well quoted appropriately. Aurangzeb even refused to acknowledge that Akber was a Muslim, though he himself was less than 1/3 rd Muslim by virtue of blood. As per the definition of present day Pakistanis, he`s a guy who started a new religion.. an act of apostacy.. therefore he`s not a muslim.

All kings acted in the way you said, not just Muslim kings.

I think coprorate tycoon Vijay Mallya would answer about Tipu...

The book by Abraham Eraly...not Abraham Earlay.

Re: # 27 by sanatani,

I guess though you addressed the post to me, you meant the entire lot of ``guttersnipes`` didn`t you? By the way, there are lot of Pakistanis who share your views. Some of them, like HP, make their point much more coherently and intelligently. So much so, that I agree with almost everything that HP says. Not that I disagree with you either .... except for the simple fact that I do not understand what you are suggesting. I mean, OK so the Kashmiris and IMs are into jehad. Now what are we supposed to do? Should we, i.e. people like you and me, go and kill them all OR should we ask our army to push these guys into Pakistan? Maybe I am getting this whole thing wrong. OK, what is it that we should do so that we are no longer ``guttersnipes``? Would it be enough to greet each other with ``Jai Shri Ram``, ``Jai Shivaji``, ``Jai Hanuman`` or whatever. It will be wonderful to see interactors like arjun_m, mohar 11 and jang starting their interacts with ``Jai hanuman`` ... just a thought.

Interesting reading, a Very vivid description of every thing that Abroo sha saw on his first visit, he seem to have observed lot more in such a short visit. Opinions are unbiased and dispassionate. But there is something I tell my Pakistani friends when they keep harping about common culture and shared lifestyle. India is much more than Hindi movies and Hindustani tongue. Such striking similarities are confined only to some parts of northern India., and as you know majority of Indians are not north Indians. A typical Malayali or tamilian or Telungu or Assemese , or a Naga has very little to share with his Pakistani counter part. Iam a malyali muslim and I have more in common with fellow Christians and Hindus or nigoubering tamilian, or srilanakan or a malasian than with a Pakistani except my faith. We don’t speak Urdu, and is never proud of mugul past. And do not share the same history of invasion and conquest. our food habits and recipes are not the same. i am not saying this because I am offended by such close comparisons or iam apologetic about our shared past. I would like the two countries to come much closer and I wish Mr. abroo sha to get a visa on arrival on his next visit to India. It is just my observation that India has a cultural diversity that an average Pakistanis can never comprehend.

look sanatani mian - you may be right - tipu, akbar are probably not the heros they are made out to be.... heck, all the historical bigshots are being re-evaluated these days and all of them seem to have feet of clay - gandhi slept with his nieces, jinnah used to sh!t his pants in fear of jail.... muhmmad was a pedophile, jesus married a whore.... and I am sure tipu and akbar too have their issues...the killed and converted hinuds by the cart-load...

Like GT asked - what are you going to do now?... there is nothing you can do about the history[rss-version or commie version]... but there is everything you can do about the present and the future... so f*** tipu - who cares?

Focus on what is really important - the present and the future...

Re: # 31

Well said Mohar. Present and future are important. That`s the point.