Chowk is 9 Today

I had earlier posted this on the ``Invisible Editor`` board. I urge chowk to carefully consider the suggestions again.

#205 by bjkumar on February 24, 2006 9:06am PT

Madam editor,

I am posting it here on this dormant board because I can not think of any other permanently relevant board and (unlike others) I do not like to burden my i-log area with all kinds of trivialities – and certainly not do so on a permanent basis.

Please be assured that this interactor is already familiar with the “faq” stuff on the interact index (II). There is nothing in there which counters the very legitimate concerns that this interactor has earlier raised regarding the built-in bias and potential for abuse of this whole system and how – because of the way such things get institutionalized in this “world” – its close resemblance to a chowk “caste” system – with the ultimate II of 4.0 attaining that chowk “Brahmin” status (and perhaps a 5.0 (which I have yet to see) the ultimate stage of Nirvana which is rarely achieved in THIS life!)

Here are the following recommendations you may seriously wish to consider (REALLY seriously):

1) Whoever is/are chowk “staff” and scoring interacts must never be an interactor – otherwise the credibility will always remain clouded. (This may call for a certain degree of sacrifice from those of “chowk staff” who may be addicted to interaction – they need to make up their minds which of the two functions is important to them – and pick one (and one only)!)

2) Either an interact meets the guidelines – or it does not. Accordingly, the score should be either 1.0 or 0.0 – none of this subjective grading from -1 to +5. For most interacts, it is easy to see if it is a 1.0 or 0.0. (The use of abusive terms could be 0.0, for example) If there is legitimate doubt – then the default needs to be 1.0 – following that old logic of “innocent unless proved guilty”.

3) The score of each interact must be displayed right on its header line (where the time stamp appears). There is no other way to ensure absolute transparency.

Oops, I forgot to mention the interact index!

You see ma’m, the above approach simplifies things in such a way that there won’t be a need for an interact index. Individuals can hang on to their precious II with pride – like certificates on a wall!

Sincerely,
BJK.

forAug. 13 06
Happy Birthday!
I find ``sustained growth and organic evolution``, a fascinating expression. Speaking as ``Chowk``, has both direction and force. Cannot resist the change? Just flow along, and I am sure you will be speaking out regularly on sub continental issues. Call editorialization by any other nom. it will read the same. Wish you all the best!

On this piece:

(1) It is always a mistake to put too much into the “number of hits” in a forum of this kind. (Most of those hits come from a small subset.)

(2) I agree that the site takes a lot of time on everybody’s part. The staff and editors need to be commended – as well as those interactors who stay on the topic with substantive comments.

(3) In my personal view, the day chowk starts taking itself too seriously – it will start walking that downhill path! (In other words, starting to “editorialize” will be a big mistake! Chowk’s time will instead be better spent in making sure that all the coding bugs are removed – it should not take nine years and longer for it to work bug-free.)

Side Note: I personally wish the Versey would return – my views on the Versey are well known to the world. But clearly no site can be centered on one individual or even a small group alone. That would degrade its “idealism” and make it flinch!

All the best to chowk on its ninth birthday.

Re: # 303

Wah Babu Wah!

life is better with chowk without chowk

i prefer india-pakistan duels here rather on the battlefield

Congrats Chowk and all Chowkies!

As I said in my UP thread, my purpose was to demonstrate what I had said about any cute girls, was not directed at any interactor`s family. It was directed at the ilk of these girls and the parents who teach them to do this.

I hope this will be understood and the unfortunate episode forgotten being not worthy of research efforts of our knowledgable interactors. Not the lesons learnt, however.

I share and second Salim Chauhan`s views regarding Farzana Versey. She can life to Chowk. Farzana just wrote something in her iLog, and liveliness of the debate from everyone is a testimonial. Chowk needs her back, and if there are any differences, hopefully Chowk staff can resolve them and invite her back.

Anil

#297 Qumquat {``the earliest killing took place at #66...;)``}

No, that was just a routine application of pesticide by Chowk Staff.

Re: # 271

I am new to this site. My entry and her exit coincided. Going by what people write this Eff Vee lady is kinda tomboyish and horseback editor?

She`s also like body in Hindustan, mind in Pakistan type? Tossing between Hindustan and Pakistan is okay (One People, Two Countries?) but the otherway round is good i.e. Mind in/on Hindustan and body in Pakistan.

Wish to see her back in Chowk. Some people like her so much, it seems.

reg: #278
...while chowk regulators allow the message to embellish FP they are known to kill mesengers...the earliest killing took place at #66...;)

#295, {``Mind blowing hypocricy``}

Must you always be so stingy and must you always put your expressions in such San Francisan terms?

``Subroto #278,
I think that your regurgitation of old posts to score questionable points is reprehensible. For those of us who may have missed these gems, you made sure that we benefited from your dubious research. For those who had already read them, you ensured that they suffer yet once more. Your action is as bad as if you were the originator of this profanity. Shame on you.
[Reply to interact #291]


#292 by Salim_Chauhan on August 17, 2006 9:41am PT
Subroto #278,
I am still not done with expressing my anger at your lewd, crude, shrewd, and behood behavior in researching, highlighting, and recycling archived profanity. You, sir, are a blight on the landscape of Chowk. You deserve to be castrated, tarred and feathered, and hung upside down in the parking lot of the Civic Center for your blatant depravity and total lack of common sense. I find your action to be both despicable and mischievous. Please go and blacken your face and drown yourself in a little cup of water - as they say in desi parlance. ``


Mind blowing hypocricy.

#293, Yes, those who repeat this profanity will be subjected to exemplary punishment.

Re: # 278

Are there going to be any repurcussions for these sexually harrassing and slanderous posts?

Subroto #278,
I am still not done with expressing my anger at your lewd, crude, shrewd, and behood behavior in researching, highlighting, and recycling archived profanity. You, sir, are a blight on the landscape of Chowk. You deserve to be castrated, tarred and feathered, and hung upside down in the parking lot of the Civic Center for your blatant depravity and total lack of common sense. I find your action to be both despicable and mischievous. Please go and blacken your face and drown yourself in a little cup of water - as they say in desi parlance.

Subroto #278,
I think that your regurgitation of old posts to score questionable points is reprehensible. For those of us who may have missed these gems, you made sure that we benefited from your dubious research. For those who had already read them, you ensured that they suffer yet once more. Your action is as bad as if you were the originator of this profanity. Shame on you.

Re: # 76
Alexa ratings.. hahahaha

``Chowk is the worlds largest online community of discussion around contemporary writings of Indian and Pakistani people.``

I take offense to this. Why not Bangladeshi people, or Sri Lankan, Nepali or Bhutanese people. Are they not part of sub-continent?

Re: # 286

Zanab Zeemax,

All said and done I like you really, for you are a big kid - overaged kid.

For khasi kaaka HP, it`s leg pulling.

Chowk staff,

Congratulations on crossing an important milestone . The statistics about readership etc are also impressive. I note a welcome evenhanded approach while dealing with both Indian and Pakistani contributors and I suppose that is a singular reason for your popularity.

Why not go public and issue IPOs or whatever? You might just end up making this site richer.

Great. Some people are now real mad at me for exposing their well cultivated facades.

Re: # 278

Subrato,

His mind mutates between a Casanova and a Ghazi.

Once he`s a Ghazi or would be Shahid, later he becomes a Casasnova.

The real Zeemax, please stand up.

P.S: Hi all, for my post on geriatric Khasi Kaka HP and zanab Zeemax, pl see my ilog.

Chowk, Congrats

Association with you has been an enriching experience.

You continue to satisfy my fascination & curiosity of the past - and communication with people from the past. I met Dost Mitter and Farzana through Chowk.

You are also quick to rub off any sharp edges or outlandish theories & goad the reader to move towards the middle.

But you, too, seem to have become more conservative - with less tolerance for the mildly sensuous & poronographic stuff that used to appear a few years back. Sex has no religion. Let it out.

nhk

#282 by ballukhan

Who was trying to pull strings from behind on FV`s editorial policies and its enforcement?

I may be completely wrong, and hope I am, but it appears awfully likely to me that it was no other than Chowk-Staff itself ...

``I do not want insinuations about my role, and I do not identify with what is happening here anymore.``

I want to know why FV resigned ..............

What insinuations were made about her role?
By Whom?

What was happening at Chowk that FV did not want to identify with?

In short-

Who was trying to pull strings from behind on FV`s editorial policies and its enforcement?

Would FV please stand up and speak out like a brave person as she always has!!!

Re Farzana`s iLog:

Right now it is to say that the hiatus is over. I have decided not to keep things in flux, therefore I am giving up the post of Chief Editor with immediate effect. I do not want insinuations about my role, and I do not identify with what is happening here anymore. This is the truth and that is what you will always get from me. I have always ticked people off and said that they have no business to be in a place they have no respect for....

To Farzana versey, I will say ``Thank You`` for all the time you spent here.

To Chowk, I`ll say ``Haq Mughfirat Karey; Ajab Azaad Mard Thaa.``

Chowk Staff ,

I doubt you would have filtered abuses or banned interactors who clearly say:

``Chowk is my baap ki jageer like Pakistan is........Indians out!!!``

You have no idea about how much jigoism and abusive Islamic nationalism is seen by outsiders on this site.

You have to be an outsider to realize this which unfortunately you are not!!!

Indian- Indi


Pakistani- Paki

I do not see the problem!

Well if you want to be known as `Indi` then you would have to leave your pureland and accept Indian secularism!!

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

#268 by teja_seth

No. No. You guys didn`t get what HP meant or I meant in this `macaca` thing. George Allen wasn`t being racist at ALL if you hear what he says in that video I posted.

He says this guy in the yellow shirt had been trailing him around and following him around in every meet .... (replace that with `trailing and following on every chowk board`)

...with a video camera in his hand ... (replace that with `collecting pebbles for personal attacks later`)

...and he equates that with the characteristics of a certain primate, about which wiki states ``Although several species lack tails, and their common names therefore refer to them as apes, these are true monkeys, with no greater relationship to the true apes than any other Old World monkeys.``

So he was referring to Mr. S.R. Sidarth`s behaviour, not his race.

This behaviour indeed describes many interactors on Chowk.

#274
SR,

To be successful in life it is absolutely necessary to have a competitive approach. Your post shows that you don’t have it anymore and I can see why you are such a pessimist abt life and things around it in general. You may call that edge testosterone or name it whatever else in your current state of mind you can think of. But those who succeed show the ability to fight back and fight back well. Generally they are the people with all the moolah or power. You seem to have a sort of khasi approach for life…As you said different strokes for different folks. I hope you get out of the rut and try and change your lifestyle…Lastly, Net is for extroverts. I hope you get it but I doubt it….

Re: # 264
Awww...cho chweet....the latest love story on chowk? tahmed & arjun_m :)))

Re: # 230 zeemax {``...When you ... give it back to them ten times more their behavior changes .

What do you say to that? ...``}

Yes, that is the testosterone laiden logic that leads to esclation of disharmony and is the precursor of violence. This is the militant Jihadi thinking, or for that matter (same difference) the American/Israeli mind-set (``you go ahead and throw a stone at my M1 tank and I`ll blast your house away...) and we all know what results you get from those kinds of approaches. Some consider it theose attitudes the ``way to go`` about life. Others don`t.

I am one of those who say that this line of logic at the micro level (ie in one`s daily life) is simply the miniature of the macro level phonomena that if taken to its logical end, ultimately reaches lofty heights of absurdity. e.g. : A claustrophobic 60 year old post-menupausal osteoprotic woman can raise her voice in excitement over her precious ``Oil of Ulay`` jar and ``they`` divert the plane from Dullas to Logan and escort it with two combat ready F16s... Imagine not one but TWO F 16s to prevent granny from using Vasline on her hands. This one will go down in the history books.

(This, by the way, is an indicator of a major turning point. A market high. This is like Rosa Parks or like NASDAQ 5,000... things should start turning around from here.

But that is a different debate for another board...)

My purpose of bringing in this example is not to indulge in an irrelevency but to elucidate the principle that ``over reaction,`` be it from hate or fear, is not very useful. It`s usually counterproductive. This is what happens when things go wrong. An sexually abused innocent child grows up to become a dangerous and violent child molestor. On a macro level ook at Israel. Children of yesterday`s Nazi persecution victims becomes mass murderers themselves.

This is what I tried to say to godot as well but, like you and HP, he too disagrees. Different strokes for different folks. As I`ve often said before, opinions are like body orifices, we all have them. This is just mine.

...SR

Re: # 271

hehe hehe hehe Sadna you owe me a new keyboard

#267 Thanks, Chowk Staff. I am glad you plan to introduce changes, and to announce these changes ahead of time.

Farzana writes:
````Since June 1st, I seriously thought I would see people become more civil (at least the group that had a personal grudge against me and had infiltrated Chowk under various garbs). I am afraid, what I (and many can) see is not worth mentioning. And they have re-infiltrated. `` ``

Dear Re-infiltrators, Come out with your hands above your heads! OUT!




Go on, make my day - Chowk istaff.

he`s a racist why? because he reportedly had a noose in his ofice or something?

Re: # 251
Oh please, I agree George Allen is a friend of India but no racist? Give me a break.

Re: # 246

Zee and HP

Who cares what language an american politician uses. If he is really a racist asshole, it is the problem for american people to sort out. If he is really Mr. nice guy, gain, it is a for the american public to reward him suitably. What matters is this: Georgy boy, who is 90% certain to succeed in his reelection campaign, is a member of India Caucus. If you followed the news reports closely in the last 3 months or so, you`d have noticed that he was one of the main supporters of the Indo US nuclear deal. So no matter his personal views, he has been quite helpful to India as a senator.

Secondly, as many sources have pointed out, macaca is a french curse word for ``dirty arab`` which georgy boy learnt from his tunisian jewish mother. If I were an arab loving pakistani, I would be very careful about using ``macaca`` as a general term of abuse. The cognitive dissonance required for doing that would surely explode the head of any sane person. You guys should stick to khassi :)

This is to clarify, no one is being singled out. As one interactor has pointed out when anyone`s interact index is zero their posts start getting filtered until those are reviewed.

Having said this, we do plan to introduce changes but when that happens, it will be with an announcement.

Chowk Staff

Chowk,
Happy Birthday. Despite all the criticism and hate mail, Chowk is the addiction of many desis - great topics, excellent articles, unending rivalries, and very little moderation - one could mistake Chowk for the Knesset.

BELATED HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO CHOWK!

#263 I agree. Further to #254, and more seriously this time: If chowk is to start enforcing its guidelines - this is not the way to do it. The proper way is to first announce exactly how you propose to enforce these guidelines - and then do so consistently for all posters. Despite his obvious dislike for us pakis, the fact remains that Arjun only rarely falls to the level of personal abuse.

Given the spate of abuse recently seen on chowk, this singling out of Arjun is thus all the more outrageous!!

Chowk Staff,
Please allow Arjun_m``s posts with out any filtering. BTW, I am of Paki origin.

Just read FV`s ilog. Powerful stuff as always. Miss that kind of writing. Yes, her contribution to chowk was/is great. Though I disagree/d with some of her editorial policy, there is no question about the fact that she was a great editor. Her `personalization` of `chowk-staff` was a brilliant strategy. She also took it as hard as she gave it. She is one Indian I would not call a khasi.

p.s. Please do not filter out arjun_m.

#260, Injun007 {``Either get a new nick or give up chowk. ``}

What do you know about either?

Arjun - you need to get a new nick. Chowk-Staff have reduced your interact index to zero, which means, as you are aware, all your posts are automatically deleted or filtered out.

Either get a new nick or give up chowk.

Raw Dust #250 {``ps: bring back FV please? She brought some diverse people to write on this site and was pretty good at dealing with things around here``}

Raw,
AMEN! In addition to being a talented writer, an effective manager, FV had class and principles. I miss her. :(

FRIENDS OF GEORGE ALLEN

Lot`s of muslim and Indian sounding names on just this one page...

Re: # 250 by Raw_Dust,

Sorry, read you wrong on Urstruly. Yep,...., I think you are right once again.

Chow.

GT #253 I admire your tolerance my friend. I still think chowk should put its foot down though. We would all learn a lot more if we had more thoughtful discussions I think. After 7 years on chowk, I should have been an expert on hindu philosophy, literature and so forth.

Re: # 250 by Raw_Dust,

You may be right that I am hyping things up. Yes I remember Urstruly from the old days. I must confess that I found a lot of humour in his abuse. Correct me if I am wrong, but it was he who got the dhoti thing going. I do miss the Urstruly of the past .... he was the master. The present lot can`t come close to him. I miss Harimau too. Great guys, both of them.

#251 damn, they cut poor arjun again!! But never fear. I shall be the voice of the voiceless!! here goes. arjun speaking now:

damn jehadi pakis. Pakistan is the center of terrorism. This web link proves it:

Pakistani macaca terrorists!!

Excerpts:

Welcome To Pakistan
From the mighty stretches of the Karakorams in the North to the vast alluvial delta of the Indus River in the South, Pakistan remains a land of high adventure and nature. Trekking, mountaineering, white water rafting, wild boar hunting, mountain and desert jeep safaris, camel and yak safaris, trout fishing and bird watching, are a few activities, which entice the adventure and nature lovers to Pakistan.

Re: # 247 by mohar,

Fine, some people are OK with abuse. But some are not. Why do we want to upset those who do not like to be abused?

I am not asking anyone to make others feel `happy`. I am simply asking, how hard is it not to upset people through abuse. In fact, I am not even against making people upset. Hey, we should make people more than upset if we so determine, but it would be nice if that could be done without abuse.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

yawn...i`ll still be voting for Allen come november...he`s no racist, very pro-India and Webb`s an anti-outsourcing nut anyway....

GT:
relax. you seriously think these characters will ``leave``? you are just hyping chowk to no end. it is just an internet board and that`s it. there is nothing about it to make you enter or leave. and you dont have to wait for zeemax`s schtick anymore. you can have your fill right at this moment if you go back and read Urstruly`s stuff in his heydays at chowk. it is all the same.

chowkstaff:
congrats on making it to the 9th...!
cheers..!

ps: bring back FV please? She brought some diverse people to write on this site and was pretty good at dealing with things around here.

#238 abe zee, the good senator meant to say welcome from Mecca to the man thinking he is a paki....but the wily-baniya hinjus are twisting his words to get african-american votes by claiming mecaca. they have learnt this from anti-defamation league and bnai brith.

these senator-guys should be taught that pakis look different from hinjus (rolling eyes icon)

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 245 GT

I didn`t ask anybody leave - just for them to take a break and evaluate where they stand in their respective lives...:)

I don`t think ``abuse`` is the problem here... I mean - Do you see any khasi ever complaining about the so called abuse?... no. because, there ain`t no abuse here - only interactions... interactions that have passed the chowk security checks and certified to be perfectly legal...

Some people love to whine... there ain`t much you can do to make them happy... believe me, I have tried... doesn`t work...

To further clarify what he meant ... rather good description:

Re: # 239 by mohar:

``well, then don`t debate, nobody is forcing you to come here and debate... so take a break, make some liquid bombs and see what happens.... ``

That is fine and zeemax may leave. But you see I do not want him to leave ... I come to this site to read what he has to say, and you will agree that there is something to learn from him. So what is more costly - (a) loosing zeemax and godot; or (b) stop abusing? Also do consider this, if all these guys leave and the rest simply ignore the abuse then who will be there to abuse.

It is your choice. But it would be nice if people restrain their abuse if not stop it.

HP #229 maybe allen has been a lurker on chowk....

#241 of course, pakis would never be confused with macacas. this picture below is actually of a specimen from lahore zoo (even animals wear emperor-like robes in pakistan):

jang: while lots of pakistanis have gone on sarkari junkets to china for decades now, recently many have been going on personal junkets too - and many more can go all the way to the chinese border on the silk route (havent done that myself yet though). also, chinese - particularly chinese muslims from sinkiang have been coming across the border to pakistan to sell their chinese stuff for decades now. but dont worry...india will always be very special, one way or another, for pakistanis. :-)

Re: # 238 zee

Yep - I read that story in cnn... warmed the cockles of my heart... good old georgie boy... he sure recognizes a macaca when he sees one... :)

urstruly: you wonder What really intrigues me is the reason why I am a part of this group. What is that that has made me stoop that low?

Even a comedian, Groucho Marx, knew better than to ``stoop so low``. He said: ``I would not join any club that would accept someone like me as member.``

Re: # 237 godot
[....There is nothing to debate at Chowk anymore ...]

well, then don`t debate, nobody is forcing you to come here and debate... so take a break, make some liquid bombs and see what happens....

Let others who like chowk continue with their ``debates``... deal?...

Macaca:

S.R. Sidarth, a senior at the University of Virginia, had been trailing Allen with a video camera to document his travels and speeches for the Webb campaign. During a campaign speech Friday in Breaks, Virginia, near the Kentucky border, Allen singled out Sidarth and called him a word that sounded like ``Macaca.``

``Lets give a welcome to Macaca, here. Welcome to America and the real world of Virginia,`` said Allen, who then began talking about the ``war on terror.`` In an interview, Sidarth said he suspects Allen singled him out because he was the only non-white face in the audience, which he estimated included about 100 Republican supporters.

He could have at least asked him his name since he’s been around his campaign. And yes, what does he mean by Macaca?

If spelled M-a-c-a-c-a, the term refers to a species of monkeys in the Eastern Hemisphere. ``Is he saying Sidarth is a monkey?`` [Webb spokesperson Kristian Denny] Todd asked. The word M-a-k-a-k-a refers to a town in South Africa. Todd accused Wadhams of ``reaching`` for an explanation for Allen’s comments. ``The kid has a name. This is trying to demean him, to minimize him as a person,`` Todd said.

Urstruly

“What really intrigues me is the reason why I am a part of this group. What is that that has made me stoop that low?”

A form of habit (masturbation). An addiction (smoking, drugs, alcohol). That sums up Chowk.

There is nothing to debate at Chowk anymore other than pu$$y and yo paki.

Re: # 234 zee

chowk-staff won`t do it... so it`s upto you and HP, the paki who hates to be called a paki [talk about self-loathing] ... so get your guards up fellas... the macacas are coming... in hordes... :)...

Re: # 232 salim
[...It hurts me to resort to retaliation but it does work...]

Yep - so we all agree then... ``paki`` and ``macaca``[or khasi] are all good words... the former was immortalized by George Bush, the later coined by George Allen.... I mean, by George - what`s the whining all about?...

can somebody explain this to zeemax and HP ?.... they are still weeping...

Salim,

To understand this phenomenon, we must not stray from the purpose. The purpose is to keep the conversation on-track. Not to merely retaliate.

The question is `how to keep the conversation on-track`. Does the chowk-staff do it or the interactors themselves through any means at their disposal?

I have to admit though that the second option too doesn`t really work and leaves a bad taste in the mouth, resulting in disinterest with the whole thing.

So, it`s a problem for those who want to remain on this site at all.

I don`t agree with bulleya that we should select whom we want to interact with and ignore the rest. In that case resorting to instant messaging is better.

Yo pakis... why are you unncessarily getting your chaddies in a knot?.... we khasis are not complaining about being called a khasi: khasi...macaca... horrible hinoood... or whatever... in fact, we welcome it... better be called a khasi than killed in jihad.... I mean, HP chanting khasi is better than HP with a liquid bomb up his a**... right?

So - don`t bother your pretty heads over this matter... we love you guys just the way you are... and we love George Allen too... when push comes to shove - who do you think he is going to send to gitmo?...

#230, Zeemax quoting HP {``...if you continue to allow people to abuse, they begin to walk all over you. When you come back and give it back to them ten times more their behavior changes pretty fast. ``}

Zee,
As an extremely polite and well-behaved interactor, I try to refrain from engaging in gutter-speak and discussions of people`s family members. However, I do agree with HP that there are certain foul-mouthed toilet bowls who deserve massive retaliation. It hurts me to resort to retaliation but it does work.

I think Chowk should allow anything and everything. There is no way to figure out what is correct and what is incorrect. And who should form the Chowk police? Some of the individuals I completely disagree with seem to consider themselves the primary candidates for the Chowk police? Why should they be allowed? Will they ever censor their own posts?

If a person can prove through an argument that the facts provided by another interactor are false, the other interactor should have the decency to issue a public apology. This has always been my formula on freedom of speech issues, be it related to religion or politics or public personalities. In real life, the offended party should have the legal right to ask for a financial compensation, also.

On Chowk, people should simply move on, if they are abused. If they cannot move on then it is a fault in their own character, which they are blaming on others and on this site. Anyone who gets worked up over abuse, by a person he/she has never seen, and that too through a website, is far too immature to handle any major responsibilities in life.

Such individuals certainly cannot be a leader of any sort. Since having a thick skin and complete control over one`s emotions under adverse circumstances is the cornerstone of leadership.........

In the six or seven years I have been on Chowk, if I publish an article I interact with everyone. However, on other threads, there are around ten or so individuals I interact with. That`s it. I only read their replies. I skip over everyone else`s. I have been doing this throughout the years, I have been here.

On looking back, I have noticed that their are a few individuals here who have adressed well over one hundred replies to me over the years, that I didn`t even read. I didn`t even know that they were interacting with me. I never interacted with them, yet they kept replying to my posts!

This to me, is a sign of a frustrated and disturbed individual. Someone who feels the need to respond repeatedly to someone, who isn`t even talking to him/her. Why bother about someone in such a state of mind? Why not simply skip over him/her?

SR,

When you say:

All I tried to say was that personal attacks of a crass, vulgar and gutter mentality type are unsuitable and should be shunned. No matter what the mitigating circumstances.

You didn`t take HP`s considered opinion into account:

...if you continue to allow people to abuse, they begin to walk all over you. When you come back and give it back to them ten times more their behavior changes pretty fast.

What do you say to that?

#226 by tahmed32

``I wasnt saying that your use of the word ``khasi`` was uncalled for, merely asking why you were suddenly using it in almost every post``

It actually came off an article on chowk and so is approved by chowk in two articles...Now the issue is abt the word ``macaca`` made famous by George Allen.....
Now I am debating which one is better....

Re: # 212 d-m {``...Would you also include religious icons among public icons?...``}

If a religion is in the ``public domain``, then yes.

zeemax ...could make any sense of the post... about Chowk interact policy

It isn`t my place to decide Chowk policy. I was only expressing what I would have done had it been up to me. But it is not up to me, so the point is moot.

All I tried to say was that personal attacks of a crass, vulgar and gutter mentality type are unsuitable and should be shunned. No matter what the mitigating circumstances.

...SR

Urstruly,

Maybe that`s your `id`. Not the Chowk ID, but the Freudian one ....

HP: I agree with you that the word ``paki`` (or worse) is readily used on chowk, and is at least as offensive as ``khasi``. I wasnt saying that your use of the word ``khasi`` was uncalled for, merely asking why you were suddenly using it in almost every post. chowk should no doubt come down on this ridicule, insults etc. that humorless individuals lacking anything substantive to say use to announce their presence on chowk. But - and this was all i was basically saying in case of arjun/godot - that if it is to do so, it should do so consistently.

and given my own use of the term ``monkey`` for arjun (equally well deserved, in my view), that you point to, i am certainly in no position to be the morals teacher here.

I find it quite interesting that every year the sole topic on every chowk birthday board is the `verbal abuse of the other` and yet it is done again and again even on the birthday boards; and that is what Einstein defined as Insanity. In his immortal words `` Insanity is, doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.`` What really intrigues me is the reason why I am a part of this group. What is that that has made me stoop that low?

#223 by HP

HP, LoL ....

But tahmed can be forgiven. After all, in a gutter you only find maggots for company ...

#196 by tahmed32

Tahmed,
You are again wrong in equating Godot’s post with Khasi_m abuses. I think you are gone too far in your love for khasi_m. I see exactly what chowk staff saw in his two posts and probably others too.

We will revisit this when you com back with your “monkey, monkey” mantra or mohar starts adding some $$$$ after your nic.

“btw, what`s the deal with this ``khasi`` trip you have been on recently? :-)”

It is the same deal with the word “Paki” if you find “Paki” derogatory, then you will find ``khasi`` disgusting too. If you are okay with ”paki” then you should accept Khasi too. I hope others pick up on this too :)

As I earlier pointed out, if you continue to allow people to abuse, they begin to walk all over you. When you come back and give it back to them ten times more their behavior changes pretty fast. I would be glad to post examples of that when needed.

I think at this point I have nothing more to discuss with you on this subject. When chowk bans the word Paki, I will ban Khasi too...until then people just get used to it…

#220 by godot

Godot, you can see how differences in a `community` are resolved easily ... just by logic. You and I probably had the very worst scrap in the chowk history but it was resolved.

I have to agree with HP. Some people ARE Khasis, and that not only includes some Hindus but some (ostensibly) of ours as well who are the same.

On the other hand, I regularly have decent conversations with non-Khasis amongst the Hindus.

So a community should not be labelled. Khasis should be labelled as abusers / saboteurs / punks and so forth ... and these should be banned.

HP, please make the necessary amends.

#213 It is so nice to see global understanding developed via Chowk, on front page as well as on unplugged. After all, we dont call it the website for the thinking desi guy for nothing.

cough!! cough!! :-)

or as you put it: khansi!! khansi!!

SR, Zeemax

A case in point:

Now look at this post by mohar. What purpose is it serving? What value is it adding? Why is it there? Is this part of Chowk’s “unflinching idealism”? Can Chowk explain as to how? How is it “civil” per Chowk interact guideline? How many times an interactor attacked this way should ignore this vulgarity that has no place in a debate? What sort of dialogue you think would ensue from this post? Why shouldn’t I despise Chowk’s interact policy?

mohar #211
“godot is just another pretty paki boy who is a victim of the khasi abuse... :)... so no harm done... now all you pakis can go have a group-hug and forget the whole thing... oh no, not here, go behind that bush over there... spare us the spectacle...:)”

what i mean is i see is indian tourists makind a bee-line for tourism in china..not sarkari jun kets. its ramaarkable that they dont have pakistan on their tourism radar considering its so near and there is no language problem ..these folks are haggling with chinese tour operators on the skype-phone LOL

And SR ... continues to sit on his lofty fence ....

Couldn`t make head or tail of his post as to exactly WHAT the Chowk interact policy should be .. if at all ....

Very happy to see the Zeemax sahib here. He`s great pusher (of this board).

#215

impedence mismatch.

#206 by Subroto

I din`t have to search for it. I remembered when it was posted i.e. right at the time inncocent civilians were getting bombed in Lebanon. I remembered exactly what it said. It said the following as you correctly reproduced:

I too killed yesterday.
Bloody insect deserved to die.
Crushed under my foot.
Bloody spider. ``

But, unfortunately it was your cockroach that got crushed. The spider is still there.

But never mind. I don`t want to interact with those of your ilk.

#205 by godot

Thanks. That clarifies it. No problem man .. I guess it was just the timing of that article. Any other time would not have been so incendiary. Sorry I missed the apology. Of-course it is accepted in the spirit that it was meant.

tahmed # 210 Not entirely true. I have been having some meaningful chats on UP with your friend who has a cough (khansi) problem. I need to stop responding to his empty threats :-)

SR#107:

``On another point let me add that expressing views on ``public icons`` no matter how sacred, is an entirely different matter (and is an article of free speech) than an irrelevent, vulgar, personal attack of a crass nature against a fellow interactor.``

Agreed. Would you also include religious icons among public icons?

Re: # 205 godot to zee
[.... Him and mohar are the unsavory characters I meant, not you. ..]

see zee - i told ya... it`s the khasis who are to blame, yep they are very unsavory characters...

godot is just another pretty paki boy who is a victim of the khasi abuse... :)... so no harm done... now all you pakis can go have a group-hug and forget the whole thing... oh no, not here, go behind that bush over there... spare us the spectacle...:)

Subroto #206 They would have to dig a long time to find anything against you my friend!!

Cos I am lazy I`ll just repost an ilog. Aplogies to any chowkies past or present mentioned in it.

Paw Prints On My Mouse

``Are you surfing the web again?``
``Uh Uh``

``What are you upto? Oh great you are at that site again. Don`t you spend enough time there at work?``

``Just give me a minute``

``I don`t believe it, you come back from work after staring at the computer screen and promptly log on to the web again``

``Just checking my e-mail``

``Checking mail my paws and whats this screen you have open? Chowk-mail? Is this a porn-site or something?``

``Don`t be silly. Its a very good site for interacting with others from the sub-continent. I mean where would I get to exchanges views with someone from Karachi?``

``Oh yeah and who are all these `people` most of the don`t even have real names? I mean who in his his right mind mind would want to be called `temporal```

``Well he is a poet..``

``And you call this a web site? Just look at it - such drab colours, no multimedia to be seen anywhere. That same cartoon on the front page for how many months now, the posts take days to get updated, ...um ah I mean thats what you tell me ...``

``Hang on just a minute, Nawab have you been accessing the net while I am at work?``

``Er .. that is to say.. yes. But you don`t know how boring it gets here at home. I mean how long can one watch those soaps on TV``

Great so while I am working my dog has been running up the internet bill. Which left me with another thought.

``Nawab, what ID have you been using on chowk?``

``Can we go for a walk now I really need to go``

jang: yawn. pakis have been doing the ``china trip`` since the 1960`s when PIA started a China service when these ``recently retired`` fellows from india were not even born. as for chinese hotels - ever been to hongkong? a couple of them used to send a courtesy rolls royce (no kidding) to pick up new arrivals at the airport. and hong kong airport is something else - built on a man-made island, with fast, modern rail shuttle to the mainland. and best first class airport lounge in the world. and of course, the best way to get to china is still via pakistan - up the silk route.

but i am glad you indians are catching up where pakistan has already been. :-)

Re: # 204

yep - the genious govt-folks are now headed to china to get more knowledge... now that they have exhausted all the knowledge they learnt from europe/us/singapore trips - they need to fill up their knowledge bucket....

Meanwhile - ADB says that india is unlikely meet the millenium development goals...
http://ia.rediff.com/money/2006/aug/16adb.htm?q=bp&file=.htm

RE #107 by zeemax on August 15, 2006 8:41am PT
``Hmmm....subroto ... you mean like this one?

#8 A New Middle East on July 30, 2006
I too killed yesterday.
Bloody insect deserved to die.
Crushed under my foot.
Bloody spider. ``

Zeemax I am flattered that you had to search my posts to find one with offensive language. I remember writing that in response to someone who claimed to have killed before ;-) Anyway a ``Shabash`` is in the mail.

Zeemax

I did not like the way you responded in your first post, especially the qadiani part. I thought that was uncalled for, and I retaliated by addressing you as impotent runt. And as we know, everything went downhill from there on. However, keep in mind three things from that exchange:

1. If you had stopped just at “what nonsense” I may not have called you “impotent runt” and may have ignored your comment (btw, I am not a qadiani, but just a sunni Muslim who has no clue to what sub-branch he belongs nor cares about it.)

2. Chowk Staff should have deleted my post with “impotent runt” in it. They let it stay, pissing you off, and letting it get out of control. What the heck is Chowwk’s interact policy? For the life of me, I can’t figure out which posts reflect their “unflinching idealism”!

3. I apologized to you, but you ignored my apology and kept hounding at me.

Although nothing ill was exchanged on this board between you and me, I apologized to you again on this board for my behavior on the other board and hoped we don’t tread on that low road again. Unfortunately, that post of mine was deleted because I addressed arjun in it. Him and mohar are the unsavory characters I meant, not you.

i can vouch for veeresh`s china thingy..i have this sample of 10 recently retired folks-govt who are all planning a china trip this year, having exhausted the europe-amrica-singapore-egypt etc.. but did not even consider a pakistan trip..its just not on the radar. surprizingly they are organizing it themselves by using emails-phones etc..i didnt know chinese hotels could communicate in english!

Re: # 193

HP -

Howdy. In general, opinionated men and women like to express their likes and dislikes openly. The difficult part is that often times our opinions include emotions. You try to touch an opinion for commenting purposes and turns out that you are stepping on someone`s emotions. That can make any interaction hostile and unpleasant. The boundaries and sensitivities are not well defined. In short, internet communication can be risky and unhealthy. Reading is fine. Writing is ok. Interaction is tough. All the more reason, Chowk`s efforts to provide a venue for highly charged individuals should be appreciated. Many would have developed serious health issues if they were not able to express in black and white.

Hope all is well on your end.

Re: # 199 zee

so godot abused you... but it`s not his fault, actually khasis made him do it... yep, it`s khasis all the time... death to the khasis... khasis murdabad... :)

Re: # 194

Alright folks - the ``fat lady`` has finally sung... the drama is over.... the analyst-in-chief has finally spoken and he even got a mirror to prove his point that khasis are the real culprit... yep, with their incessant abuse, the khasis are the ones who make the good pakis cry... and sometimes become jihadis...

So we are done here... let`s wrap up this tear-jerker session with a good slogan: death to the khasis... :))

veeresh: it is still easier to travel to china from pakistan than it is from india. :-)

but i am glad you boys from india are catching up and that you at least finally realize (as you say) that the world is a bigger place than the sub-continent.

(just kidding here - actually in many ways india has left pakistan coughing and sputtering in its dust - but we shall catch up as soon as we fix a few little problems).

godot,

I think you`re just getting way too sanctimonious by saying ``unsavory interactors throw filth and insults at me``.

Let`s see what was originally said:

1) zeemax said ``What nonsense. Another qadiani?``

2) godot said`` Impotent runt ``

Now, zeemax`s post was in two parts i.e. (1) The article was nonsense in his view; and (2) it was wondered whether the author belonged to a certain sect.

Godot`s post on the other hand outright called the first interactor an ``impotent runt``.

Which one of those two was abuse?

As for zeemax, the first part of his observation was subsequently confirmed by ALL but a few of other interactors, while the second part was left unanswered.

As for Godot, his unsubstantiated allegation could only be answered by zeemax in an appropraite manner.

See? It`s easy to figure out if you put your mind to it.

SR

“This much anger? Such deep seeded reactive-anger…give your self a chance”

You mean to give myself a chance at Chowk. Why? So the Chowk Staff keeps letting its unsavory interactors throw filth and insults at me? It’s not the site, SR, it’s the Chowk’s interact policy I despise.

I do not take attacks and insults lightly and kick in the groin in response. If Chowk Staff cannot figure out which post to keep and which one to delete, then keep ‘em all. Let everyone have his say in any manner he sees fit. It’s not that Chowk is breaking any new grounds in intellectual journey and debate in its interacts. The only new ground Chowk is breaking is how low interacts can get in a public forum. Then why discriminate among posts?

“Unflinching idealism” indeed! What does it mean? Would Chowk explain it to its readers? Which posts qualify for “unflinching idealism” and which ones don’t? What do they mean by “civil” in their interact guideline?

dost-mittar {``... when I am attacked, I simply ignore these posts and posters who generally stop their abuse in due course. But this does not always happen; romair/bulleya continues to be attacked and abused even though he has never sunk to the level of his attackers...``}

Agreed 100% ... When a mad dog bites one`s heel, it is usually not a good idea to go down on all fours and bite the dog back. The sane person simply closes the door and shut out the frothing canine. In this regard, indeed, romair/bulleya demonstrate a sound character. This is more than can be said for some of the other regularly abused participants.

godot {``...Chowk has brought out the worst in me, and it has made me hate myself many times. It has stripped everything that was good and decent about me. ... Chowk does not want to control it, and I cannot control myself. I must retaliate. I have no respect left for Chowk for its interact policy...``}

Aren`t you a bit too harsh on yourself ?? Someone smart like yourself could do better if you were resolute. This much anger? Such deep seeded reactive-anger (where are you shrink-suhail, come help me out here with some impressive sounding psycho-babble) is self-destructive. Please think about it and give your self a chance.

zeemax {``... SR, being one of the founders of Chowk, is right in his #58 that Chowk has survived inspite of the interactors only due to the stubbornness of its owners...``}

To set the record right, I am not, nor have I ever claimed to be, one of the Chowk ``founders``... Chowk began on August 14th, 1997 and I only received an invitation with the link a month later in mid-September. My first contribution was in October. Some of those early interact records have been lost and do not exist in the fossil record.

On another point let me add that expressing views on ``public icons`` no matter how sacred, is an entirely different matter (and is an article of free speech) than an irrelevent, vulgar, personal attack of a crass nature against a fellow interactor. So if someone attacks Gandhiji (for whom I have respect) for his obssession with toilet cleaning, soap-water enema taking, or sleeping naked with young girls, that is fine because Gandhi is a ``public figuer``. He is an icon to some, a villian to others and a cartoon to still some others. I would not be justified in expressing the crass intent to insert a part of my anatomy in some orifice belonging to a female relative of that interactor. That would simply be an unacceptable form of expression. Such interactors, if it were for me, would be excluded from further interaction for at least 48 hours. Same applies to the ``abominable four`` or the ``one`` for that matter. As it would for the ``holocaust scam`` or any other ``sacred cow`` that is in the public domain.

hamidm {``...(not that i think there is anything wrong with being a whore - the inhabitants of heera mandi are perhaps the most honorable people in pakistan today)...``}

I couldn`t agree more. Can`t say about the rest of Pakistan, but I`ve always found that the working girls of Lawhore have more wisdom, compassion, sensitivity and common sense than the generally fickle, ignorant and conceited begumaat of Gulberg, Model Town, Cantt and Defense.

...SR