Chowk is 9 Today

[But, Farzana must be complemented profusely for bringing discipline to Chowk.]- zeemax.

...we can see the discipline in zeemax` writings on chowk...it also shows the idealism of chowk when he says...and i paraphrase...

1.he shoots to kill
2.he eats with kings and princes
3.he knows preferred flavous of rubber by 18 year olds for BJ
4.he knows many other secrets, he can`t discuss
5.he wakes up and apologises for his imaginary expertise

ps: i am not sure if farzana versey is very comfortable with zeemax` ``unflinching loyalty``...she must be squirming in her seat wherever she may be...

HAPPY BIRTHDAY CHOWK....but cut out the delusion...websites do not have enemies but the editors do...;)

How about improving your website security and making it so script kiddies can`t get in?

Happy Birthday Chowk. I am proud to say that I have been associated with Chowk for 7 out of the past nine years. I can thank Chowk for new friends, travels, opinions and ocassional outbursts, all of which have been beneficial to my quality of life :)

You bring up some interesting points; rather one salient one that will define Chowk`s very existence; namely editorialization! Even the most superficial consideration of Chowk having an editorial voice has thoughts racing through my head, both positive and negative.

It can considered that for Chowk to come into it`s own as an entity, it will need an editorial perspective. The immediate impact of an editorial is that you will gain friends and enemies, both transient. Having been on Chowk for seven years, I can honestly say that nationality does not matter beyond a superficial level. Sure, at the macro-level Indians will side with Indians and Pakistanis will side with Pakistanis nut that coherence breaks apart as soon as you come down to more granular issues. An editorial will generate both bouquets and brickbats; all for the good as long as the editorial policy has no impact on user generated content which I know it won`t.

``18 by arjun_m on August 14, 2006 8:27am PT
How about improving your website security and making it so script kiddies can`t get in?
``

How about you would like to devote siome time to giving ideas on that? Apparently, there are idiots out there who feel so threatened by a site that they will try to hack it.

Happy Birthday Chowk! I think you`ve done a great job and I hope you`ll continue to do so.
You`re a place I have spent countless hours on and I`ve enjoyed it immensely and also learnt a great deal.

I hope you will keep it subcription-free but you might want to think of advertising as a source of revenue.

Although I`ve often represented what, on Chowk at least, would be considered the minority
view I`m glad you`ve let me have my say.

How about hosting a multimedia section where we could upload stuff to do with the Subcontinent?

Happy Birthday Chowk

I think this is the best the chowk can ever get.

It is all right to gloat once in while but it wont hurt to be realistic.

“Chowk is the worlds largest online community of discussion around contemporary writings of Indian and Pakistani people.”

This perhaps was the occasion for you say it is the ONLY community where some of the worst Indians and Pakistani discuss things in the worst possible way. There is no other site on the web that would allow so much abuse to be published and unfortunately, it is catchy.

“Chowk pages are read by over 250,000 visitors every month. There are over 4000 original articles, poems, essays, and reports.”

That actually makes it a very small community. There are sites that take one million hits every day. I don’t know how you count “read” but with 100 regular members of this site and all hitting the pages multiple time, 250,000 a month is really a very small number.

“Chowk is an enormous undertaking and requires significant time, resources and commitment. We thank you for the consistent encouragement you have given us.”

As far as I know, it is operated from a home on a part time basis. Farzana was the first professional editor for this site. Now chowk is again being edited from home and believe me it shows. The first thing one should realize is that being an IT personal or the developer of the site will not make any person an editor or the moderator of the site. An editor needs different qualifications and training than a code writer.

“we are entering a phase where Chowk’s reach and footprint is significant – we are clearly starting to bend minds, shape opinions and influence change.”

Footprint:

Just a few months ago, I sent link to a friend in the state dept to read my one article on Kashmir. She commented that it is a horrible site and cannot forward the link to her colleagues; instead, she copy pasted the article for her friends.

Similarly, I asked some Pakistani liberal and progressives in Pakistan who support better Indo-pak relations to look at the site. After going thru some interacts and visiting some more site, they certainly are less enthusiastic in promoting Indo-Pak relations.

Instead of just gloating perhaps you should also write your disappointments and why this site appears the way, it is. I know you perhaps find it hard to criticize your brainchild but a child gets better help when parents are willing to evaluate their own behavior and shortcomings realistically.

HP


You are correct. I also find it really hard to recommend this website to even close acquaintances. I think it will reflect badly on me. There is no hope in improving its interact callibre. Farzana did what she could. Self policing will never work. The next step is out right censorship. In comparison, I find Naseeb.com to be relatively better; one reason being that the censorship is strict and second is that it is about 99% hinduless. For that reason there is atleast some modicum of decency there.

HP

”This perhaps was the occasion for you say it is the ONLY community where some of the worst Indians and Pakistani discuss things in the worst possible way. There is no other site on the web that would allow so much abuse to be published and unfortunately, it is catchy.”

Thank you, HP, for bringing out the obvious. When I asked the Chowk Staff on my Middle East board what’s behind their strategy in not censoring the filthy and abusive posts, there was no response. What’s funny is the following that is permanently etched over the Interacts text box. No one pays attention to it including the Chowk Staff. What purpose does it serve?

“We encourage all to participate in discussions. All we ask you to be is civil. If your post includes words or masked references that are offensive, crude, repugnant, or obscene, your post will be duly deleted. We thank you for your participation.”

It should be changed to read the reality: “We encourage you to post any obscenity your mind can conceive. Your tongue is your weapon. Use it freely. We thank you for your participation.”

I would not recommend this site to anyone I know. If I want my friends to read any of my articles I submitted to Chowk, I send them a copy but never mention Chowk.

``In comparison, I find Naseeb.com to be relatively better; one reason being that the censorship is strict and second is that it is about 99% hinduless. For that reason there is atleast some modicum of decency there.``

Plenty of Hindus who feel the same way about Sulekha etc. There are no Muslims there and hence it`s a lousy echo-chamber where everyone agrees with everyone. Tell me one other South Asian site that has both Indians and Pakistanis and the ocassional Nepali / Bangladesh / Afghan and has more civil interaction.


Actually, that gives me the idea that we should do more to attract individuals from other South Asian countries as well. Nepal, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Afghanistan etc It might lead to more composite conversations.

For the past nine years I have been a staunch advocate of no-censorship but now I think if we preserve the first desi experiment on free speech then we have to police it. But I think it is too much work for any editorial staff to handle this amount of garbage. Therefore, I suggest reader partnership in censorship. I suggest that a panel of ten readers on rotating basis should take charge of moderation on rotating basis. We need some volunteers who need to be voted in.

Urstruly,

``strict and second is that it is about 99% hinduless.``

I rather disagree with this. I spar with Indians all the time, still, some are certainly decent and honest folks though not very bight.

I have visited Naseeb and in fact have written for them too, but due to my own political bent, I dont find that site attractive. I must agree that the quality of interacts and the knowledge people show is certainly superior than what we see on chowk, however Naseeb is dominantly a second generation West born Pakistani site and that has its drawbacks.

Though in terms of decency and the quality of interacts, naseeb is far superior to chowk.

You also need to understand that Chowk is essentially an Indian site. For the last nine years, it has been edited and managed by Indians and the soft corner is evident. Perhaps, the owners from the very beginning were not honest about their political views and that led to many Pakistan flocking to the site and writing for it too.

I think that impression is now changing and that I believe is the reason that we don’t see many Pakistani on this site or they leave quickly.

I don`t think that naseeb.com is an echo chamber. There are heated debates among a universal community; and as compared to chowk the list of writers and interactor is quite diverse in all respects with jews, christians, americans, blacks, whites, muslims, arabs, atheists, and people of various other ethnicity and race interact. The measure of decency at naseeb is such that I would recommend that website to my mother, my juniors or seniors without a second thought. Chowk always gives me second thoughts.

If chowk keeps at this pace and discipline, there will never be any shortage of interactors. (Please check HPs note). But that is where it will stay forever. I do not vision Chowk stepping into the next intellectual level. people move on, they grow up, and become intelligent. Chowk is headed towards a dead end.

I don’t visit Sulekha anymore but when I did, I found that site to be worse than chowk. The quality of interaction amongst Indians themselves was horrible and pretty much trashy.

Abuses were the norms though some articles were of top quality.

Re: # 29

``T...he measure of decency at naseeb is such that I would recommend that website to my mother, my juniors or seniors without a second thought. Chowk always gives me second thoughts....``

would it be because of the pics pf female genitals as posted by interactors?

HP

I think your assessment of naseeb is correct. The issues discussed over there are more international in nature but that doesn`t matter. The intellectual level of writers at chowk has gone down sharply. Poetry, and literature sections have been dead for a while and if there is any posting there it is below sophomoric. The number of hits at literary pages is a stark indicator of calibre of people who interact here. Chowk is not even a sensational tabloid; I did not want to say this but at interactor level it is nothing but a mental lavatory. At owner level I don`t think it has been a sucessful partnership between Indian and pakistanis. Probably they are honest people, but they do not realize the extent of the chasm that divide these two nations at the level of intellectualism and set of values.