Psychology of Suicide ’Bombers’

#339 rawdust ``Their ability of figuring out modern technology with bare minimums to create maximum havoc and the time it takes for them to do it is the schedule we are to abide by.``

raw-dust bhai, if that is your worry, then worry not :) ``modern technology`` is a relative term. there was modern technology back in pre-historic times too - it was called `horse`. The people who used horses in battles prevailed over those who did not. It was thought at that time that those ``horse people`` could conquer the whole world. But then others figured out how to domesticate horses for war purposes as well.

Then we had the ultimate ``modern technology`` in middle ages - the gun powder. Those with gun powder were thought to be invincible, until other groups acquired that technology as well. In fact I would argue that spread of war technology in all eras has created deterrents and has been a strong force for establishing peace.

So humanity has lived and even thrived through all these high technology war machines. This current nuclear threat is just another one. This technology maybe new, but the battle is old. The battle being: how a group who has the killer technology of the day prevents others from having it. But it is a only a matter of time that others will possess it. And then, like all other times in history, we will move on to the next killer app :)

So once again, I suggest that you dont panic by using phrases like ``we dont have time``. We have time. Plenty of it. Despite what evangelicals say, Jesus is not itching to make his second coming by 2008 :)

#333 Raw_Dust and #332 swarrier:

I do not know how long this is going to take. But you would agree with me that protestantism is what brought forth democracies in the Western world. But here is what the father of protestantism, Luther, wrote in 1524. In his pamphlet ``Against the Murdering Hordes of Peasants`` he said:

princes should ``knock down, strangle and stab ... Such wonderful times are these that a prince can merit heaven better with bloodshed than another with prayer.``

The musings of a person whose ideas lead to democracy and the downfall of princes. The world is not linear.

malik99:
maybe your question about schedule was rhetorical. But we are constrained by people who throw acid on women`s faces, tear down legislation to modify hudood ordinances, maintain vigilante groups/paramilitaries and keep entire societies hostage in the name of Islam.

Their ability of figuring out modern technology with bare minimums to create maximum havoc and the time it takes for them to do it is the schedule we are to abide by.

Re #334
Pakistan`s great poet Iqbal says:

Yeh aik sijda jisse tu Gir`aan Samajhta hay
Hazaar Sijdoan se aadmee ko deta hay nijaat

something like: This one prostration (in front of allah) that you consider too much rids you of thousand others.

It`s important to surrender yourself completely and follow Allah`s commands. This is ofcourse easy when you dont have to be accounted for your actions and have to make decisions on your own every single time. Follow God`s injunctions, surrender yourself and the mirage of freedom is there to be had.

#253 Salim: I am all for maintaining a friendly, respectful atmosphere on chowk, so let me in that spirit respond to your call to ``bury the hatchet``. Let me note first, that in making this call, you have noted your basic complaint, and you have referred to our earlier friendly interactions on chowk. And that is fine. You have not however acknowledged the reason that prompted me to respond on this board in the first place, namely your unsolicited posts ridiculing me in response to posts I wrote that did not mention you and simply expressed my views on the lebanon war. You have also ignored the basic point I made - namely your tendancy to go after those who seem to be in a position of ``weakness`` in getting down and dirty on chowk. These are older individuals, like hamidm and self; inherently decent individuals, like Subroto; and women - each one of whom you have inveighed against while not merely ignoring but actually seeking to get on the right side of the most abusive posters on chowk.

With respect to the omissions above - I think it is important for you to reflect on these a bit and not simply ignore them. It is important because:

1. In your own interest in real life (you are of course a married man, raising a family).

2. In the interests of freedom of speech on chowk - although I will agree that ultimately it is for chowk staff to come up with a means to ensure that women and others not willing to put up with abuse from strangers on chowk are not prevented from expressing themselveso on chowk.

Rest assured that it gives me no pleasure to point out this tendancy on your part, and it would be easier for me to simply say everything is fine, hatchet buried, and start chatting in french. My only regret is that I waited so long to realize that while you are smart and entertaining, you also have a major problem in terms of lack of respect for perceived weaknesses in others - whether they are women or ``senile`` men. Like I said - no skin off my back one way or another. Such attacks and put-downs of other posters and ethnic groups are simply unacceptable as far as I am concerned.

Now, coming to your complaint. I have a right to my viewpoints, and I have a right to not be personally attacked as long as I present them in a non-derogatory manner to any individual or community. You may disagree on the logic and you may correct me on the facts. If you agree with the above, then to the best of my memory I have never referred to mohajirs in a derogatory manner (and this I think is a fact that you may correct me on if you wish by showing me anything I have written in a derogatory manner about mohajirs or biharis). While I dont claim to be a saint and at different times have probably joked about all kinds of people, I also realize that racial, ethnic, linguistic, differences are very superficial. So rest assured that I would be criticisin musharraf just as much if he was panjabi. And rest assured skin color means nothing to me. My views on the bihari issue have nothing to do with their appearance. If you accept this, then our differences of views on this issue may seem less inflammatory to you and one can even discuss the issue for what it is - a political one. With people having different views, none of which is necessarily good or evil.

I wish you - and all other chowkies - nothing but the best and all success in life. Of this you can be assured.

raw-dust #333 ``christianity took a horrifying course until it was thoroughly completely debunked but it took a long time. Islam and muslims dont have that much time however.``

muslims dont have that much time? whose schedule are we on? :)

let me break this to you. long after your bones are one with the earth, these civilizational issues, fights of good and evil, right and wrong, rich and poor, powerful and weak will still continue to play out. so just relax and enjoy the show. just because bush has 2 years left and hence he is in a hurry to solve the iranian issue, does not mean that you get yourself taken for a ride as well.

Re: # 323

Raw,

You put it very well and you got a valid point. I do not think that you are suggesting that all SBs are escapists. My point is that, the dominant (not in numbers) ideology causing SBs is one that is also changing core values in a way that helps you cope with your dilemmas and not escape from it.

Let me put forth a trivial, and perhaps wrong, example: SBs from the Hez in the past have successfully created an environment where Hez cadres in the present are confidently standing up and fighting the IDF. They are not running away. I agree that this is not only because of the SBs. My point is that it is because of a nascent but dominant ideology that was partially propogated by the Hez SBs from the past.

Re: # 329

Zeemax Sahib;

``Only when you fear Allah and Allah alone, that`s when you are free. ``

Non-muslims would regard contradictions in this statement a joke. Fear can never make a person free. Also, this implies all non-muslims are not free. Thus 5 billion people on this Earth who do not believe are not free, and only 1 billion muslims are free, according to you.

Please do think it over.

Anil

swarrier:
christianity took a horrifying course until it was thoroughly completely debunked but it took a long time. Islam and muslims dont have that much time however. Plus, extremists of islam who has a mindset of 14th century christian crusader are armed with 21st century weapons. How can democracies and voices of ``reason`` thrive amidst a hyperactive minorty? A minority group of people which believes that Allah is the ultimate Leader (tyrant) who is to be feared and whose Law must be enforced on earth through force if necessary. I dont know.

Re: # 323

So Raw_Dust , GT
GT I read your ilog. You have faith in democracies. They take time to mature however and the interim could be bloody. You said the human priest would be replaced by the internet one. Who will succeed? A moderate internet one or a militant one. Youth are always attracted to dynamism. Will there be a dynamic moderate?

In my last post to Zeemax I questioned whether religious holds will outlast those of ethnicity etc. Let us not forget that Islam is a young religion. Assuming the reformation of the church started approximately 1400 years after the start of Christianity and some disillusionment with it later, will that happen with Islam. Will the Muslims of today reject or let us say modernise the teachings or see it in a different light?



Inquirer, I have not had time to read your posts. Maybe later.

#328, Zee,
But Arjun is part and parcel of Pakistan`s sad history. Don`t tell me that you have already banned Dr. Khan Sahib, Ghulam Mohammad, Iskander Mirza, Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Wali Khan, Mujibur Rehman, ZAB, Zia, BB, NS, Mushy, and Tahmed14?

#327 by Salim_Chauhan

LoL .. and now she has to be content with saminasha2. What happened to saminasha1? Or saminasha0?

I guess all were the same. Some people never learn. She better stick her article in here for us to read or it`ll be stuck in some additionally unpleasant spaces ... I`m sure.

#322 by GT

If I replace Allah with ``Jesus`` then do I get the US?

No you don`t. Only when you fear Allah and Allah alone, that`s when you are free.

But you`re right. This is a tough concept to assimilate and absorb.

Later ...

#321 by Salim_Chauhan

But Pak-Bashing cut&paste even on boards that have nothing to do with Pak? Derailing every conversation? That`s not acceptable.

#325, Zee {``Unbelievable ... what did she want published anyway? Why can`t she just stick it in here ``}

Zee,
I think that was her problem - she tried to stick it somewhere and instead ended up stuck with it and then came the axe, a wiping out of the ilaags, and then a checkered past, a miserable present, and a dismal future. :)

Re: # 317

Bhai sahib there is no tabu in Islam. Anything and everything is open for discussion. However, I do not see a value-added aspect in engaging into a discussion when the basic premise of the topic is that there is no history of Islam. I have engaged in almost every possible debate on Islam including Islamic vision of system of governance and polity in the past but I have no appetite for a debate that starts with the argument ``crow is white``. Thank you very much.