Psychology of Suicide ’Bombers’

#253 Salim: I am all for maintaining a friendly, respectful atmosphere on chowk, so let me in that spirit respond to your call to ``bury the hatchet``. Let me note first, that in making this call, you have noted your basic complaint, and you have referred to our earlier friendly interactions on chowk. And that is fine. You have not however acknowledged the reason that prompted me to respond on this board in the first place, namely your unsolicited posts ridiculing me in response to posts I wrote that did not mention you and simply expressed my views on the lebanon war. You have also ignored the basic point I made - namely your tendancy to go after those who seem to be in a position of ``weakness`` in getting down and dirty on chowk. These are older individuals, like hamidm and self; inherently decent individuals, like Subroto; and women - each one of whom you have inveighed against while not merely ignoring but actually seeking to get on the right side of the most abusive posters on chowk.

With respect to the omissions above - I think it is important for you to reflect on these a bit and not simply ignore them. It is important because:

1. In your own interest in real life (you are of course a married man, raising a family).

2. In the interests of freedom of speech on chowk - although I will agree that ultimately it is for chowk staff to come up with a means to ensure that women and others not willing to put up with abuse from strangers on chowk are not prevented from expressing themselveso on chowk.

Rest assured that it gives me no pleasure to point out this tendancy on your part, and it would be easier for me to simply say everything is fine, hatchet buried, and start chatting in french. My only regret is that I waited so long to realize that while you are smart and entertaining, you also have a major problem in terms of lack of respect for perceived weaknesses in others - whether they are women or ``senile`` men. Like I said - no skin off my back one way or another. Such attacks and put-downs of other posters and ethnic groups are simply unacceptable as far as I am concerned.

Now, coming to your complaint. I have a right to my viewpoints, and I have a right to not be personally attacked as long as I present them in a non-derogatory manner to any individual or community. You may disagree on the logic and you may correct me on the facts. If you agree with the above, then to the best of my memory I have never referred to mohajirs in a derogatory manner (and this I think is a fact that you may correct me on if you wish by showing me anything I have written in a derogatory manner about mohajirs or biharis). While I dont claim to be a saint and at different times have probably joked about all kinds of people, I also realize that racial, ethnic, linguistic, differences are very superficial. So rest assured that I would be criticisin musharraf just as much if he was panjabi. And rest assured skin color means nothing to me. My views on the bihari issue have nothing to do with their appearance. If you accept this, then our differences of views on this issue may seem less inflammatory to you and one can even discuss the issue for what it is - a political one. With people having different views, none of which is necessarily good or evil.

I wish you - and all other chowkies - nothing but the best and all success in life. Of this you can be assured.

Re: # 337

Tahmed,

Stymie him with self respect (thumbs up ikaaan)

Re: # 337 by tahmed32 on August 24, 2006 2:14pm PT

Dear tahmed32:

I respect and admire your response to Salim Chauhan.

I do want to interject to the extent that, your political thought on the Mohajir issue is still valid, and I concur with most of your opinions. For the last few years, I have learned tremendously about MQM and their political agenda regarding the well being of Pakistan. Unfortunately, they have fromed a state within a state in Pakistan, which must be handled effectively, sooner rather than later.

Respectfully submitted,

raw-dust #333 ``christianity took a horrifying course until it was thoroughly completely debunked but it took a long time. Islam and muslims dont have that much time however.``

muslims dont have that much time? whose schedule are we on? :)

let me break this to you. long after your bones are one with the earth, these civilizational issues, fights of good and evil, right and wrong, rich and poor, powerful and weak will still continue to play out. so just relax and enjoy the show. just because bush has 2 years left and hence he is in a hurry to solve the iranian issue, does not mean that you get yourself taken for a ride as well.

swarrier:
christianity took a horrifying course until it was thoroughly completely debunked but it took a long time. Islam and muslims dont have that much time however. Plus, extremists of islam who has a mindset of 14th century christian crusader are armed with 21st century weapons. How can democracies and voices of ``reason`` thrive amidst a hyperactive minorty? A minority group of people which believes that Allah is the ultimate Leader (tyrant) who is to be feared and whose Law must be enforced on earth through force if necessary. I dont know.

#328, Zee,
But Arjun is part and parcel of Pakistan`s sad history. Don`t tell me that you have already banned Dr. Khan Sahib, Ghulam Mohammad, Iskander Mirza, Ayub Khan, Yahya Khan, Wali Khan, Mujibur Rehman, ZAB, Zia, BB, NS, Mushy, and Tahmed14?

#327 by Salim_Chauhan

LoL .. and now she has to be content with saminasha2. What happened to saminasha1? Or saminasha0?

I guess all were the same. Some people never learn. She better stick her article in here for us to read or it`ll be stuck in some additionally unpleasant spaces ... I`m sure.

#322 by GT

If I replace Allah with ``Jesus`` then do I get the US?

No you don`t. Only when you fear Allah and Allah alone, that`s when you are free.

But you`re right. This is a tough concept to assimilate and absorb.

Later ...

Re: # 329

Zeemax Sahib;

``Only when you fear Allah and Allah alone, that`s when you are free. ``

Non-muslims would regard contradictions in this statement a joke. Fear can never make a person free. Also, this implies all non-muslims are not free. Thus 5 billion people on this Earth who do not believe are not free, and only 1 billion muslims are free, according to you.

Please do think it over.

Anil

#321 by Salim_Chauhan

But Pak-Bashing cut&paste even on boards that have nothing to do with Pak? Derailing every conversation? That`s not acceptable.

#325, Zee {``Unbelievable ... what did she want published anyway? Why can`t she just stick it in here ``}

Zee,
I think that was her problem - she tried to stick it somewhere and instead ended up stuck with it and then came the axe, a wiping out of the ilaags, and then a checkered past, a miserable present, and a dismal future. :)

#319 by Salim_Chauhan

But so much venom against you just for that? Unbelievable ... what did she want published anyway? Why can`t she just stick it in here and we can read it and give our comments?

I mean, really, why not?

GT:
RE#322

Replace Allah with Adolf and see what you get. :-)

GT:
We are talking about faith and core beliefs that people build their life on, invest their life choices based on it and live through it every day not to mention the familial and cultural pull that cannot exist without first having a harmony of beliefs anmong people.

The kind of things sitting at the heart of existence that if subject to radical changes would make that existence of peoples null and void. This is, i guess, different from proving fermat`s last theorem or creating a new form of music.

And i am thinking that when confronted by such a dilemma, one way is to escape it. Escapism can be achieved by many ways: for some it is suicide bombing for others it is radical interpretation of incompatible beliefs and yet others practice ``rationality`` over blind faith.

Re: # 323

Raw,

You put it very well and you got a valid point. I do not think that you are suggesting that all SBs are escapists. My point is that, the dominant (not in numbers) ideology causing SBs is one that is also changing core values in a way that helps you cope with your dilemmas and not escape from it.

Let me put forth a trivial, and perhaps wrong, example: SBs from the Hez in the past have successfully created an environment where Hez cadres in the present are confidently standing up and fighting the IDF. They are not running away. I agree that this is not only because of the SBs. My point is that it is because of a nascent but dominant ideology that was partially propogated by the Hez SBs from the past.

Re: # 323

So Raw_Dust , GT
GT I read your ilog. You have faith in democracies. They take time to mature however and the interim could be bloody. You said the human priest would be replaced by the internet one. Who will succeed? A moderate internet one or a militant one. Youth are always attracted to dynamism. Will there be a dynamic moderate?

In my last post to Zeemax I questioned whether religious holds will outlast those of ethnicity etc. Let us not forget that Islam is a young religion. Assuming the reformation of the church started approximately 1400 years after the start of Christianity and some disillusionment with it later, will that happen with Islam. Will the Muslims of today reject or let us say modernise the teachings or see it in a different light?



Inquirer, I have not had time to read your posts. Maybe later.