Khalid Sohail August 22, 2006
#1 Posted by Urstruly on August 22, 2006 9:23:24 am
suicide bombing is not a psychological problem, it is a political problem. If past five years of history of war against terrorism, which has cost hundereds of thousangds of innocent human beings their precious lives, has a lesson in it, it is that that you cannot cure toothache with chopping off a limb; whether you like it or not you have to address the problem for what it is.
#2 Posted by Inquirer on August 22, 2006 10:02:00 am
I totally agree with Khalid Sohail, though he has not presented any avenues for action. But I look forward to interact with urstruly on these issues.
As I see it, briefly, the problems are:
1. There is a deeply irrational wing of Muslims who are deliberately overemphasizing the somewhat antiquated statements in Koran. I mean no disrespect for the Book. I respect it just as I do the Vedas. But I assert that ALL scriptures have dated statements and they need to be demphasized AND forgotten as the world learns of new FACTS.
2. The Western World has to stop exploiting the rest of the World. The problem with democracies, without exception, is that people who work with it do not like to accept harsh truths, particularly those that would require lowering of the standard of living. These people need to learn that they should not interfere in other countries conditions. Even if the objective is to improve the living condition in other countries. The Western world needs to desist from planting the dictators who would faun on them and exploit their own populace.
3. The essential feature of democracies is the separation of religion and state and the western democracies should reassert their requirements for help to other countries, namely, any help would be available only if the INTERNAL leaders of those countries will live by the democratic rule requirements. This would necessarily involve not supporting the dictatorial rulers. ONE MAN ONE VOTE, COMBINED ELECTORATES AND FINITE TERMS MUST BE REQUIRED.
As I see it, briefly, the problems are:
1. There is a deeply irrational wing of Muslims who are deliberately overemphasizing the somewhat antiquated statements in Koran. I mean no disrespect for the Book. I respect it just as I do the Vedas. But I assert that ALL scriptures have dated statements and they need to be demphasized AND forgotten as the world learns of new FACTS.
2. The Western World has to stop exploiting the rest of the World. The problem with democracies, without exception, is that people who work with it do not like to accept harsh truths, particularly those that would require lowering of the standard of living. These people need to learn that they should not interfere in other countries conditions. Even if the objective is to improve the living condition in other countries. The Western world needs to desist from planting the dictators who would faun on them and exploit their own populace.
3. The essential feature of democracies is the separation of religion and state and the western democracies should reassert their requirements for help to other countries, namely, any help would be available only if the INTERNAL leaders of those countries will live by the democratic rule requirements. This would necessarily involve not supporting the dictatorial rulers. ONE MAN ONE VOTE, COMBINED ELECTORATES AND FINITE TERMS MUST BE REQUIRED.
#3 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2006 10:10:55 am
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#4 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2006 10:15:02 am
correction:3
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOT SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOT SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
#5 Posted by zeemax on August 22, 2006 10:21:13 am
Two questions:
1) Why is it that blowing up people from the air with joy-stick controlled bombs is fine, while doing the same thing with the same bomb wrapped around a body is questionable?
2) Dr. Sohail, before writing this treatise, have you ever met a suicide bomber?
1) Why is it that blowing up people from the air with joy-stick controlled bombs is fine, while doing the same thing with the same bomb wrapped around a body is questionable?
2) Dr. Sohail, before writing this treatise, have you ever met a suicide bomber?
#6 Posted by Urstruly on August 22, 2006 10:23:14 am
Re: # 2
I do not see anything irrartional about the suicide bombings. As a matter of fact it seems quite rational. Look at it logically: If I am at war, I would choose a weapon that will work for me and not that doesn`t. Similarly, in any war the choice of weapon is yours and not your enemy`s. You don`t let enemy choose weapons for you. It is like telling one of the wrestler in a wrestling match that he can only use two kind of holds during the match and nothing else. It doesn`t need much imagination to see which wrestler would win.
The use of a religious book in this war is partly to motivate an ideological soldier and partly to get moral guidance on the conduct of war. All people use some kind of guidance for their conduct. Some people seek guidance from divine message and other from self constructed ethics. I have yet to see a convincing argument to compare which one is more rational than the other. If divine guidance is so irrational that it causes wars then by this same logic secular ethics should be preventing the wars, since it is alleged to be so rational. But we see that vice versa is true. The secular ethics have created some most vicious conflicts in the history of mankind in the past 500 years, compared to which religious ethics seems to be schoolyard code of conduct of a convent school.
I do not want to talk in terms of semantics, I do not think semantics have helped any of the party in any way or form. I think if we reduce our relliance on semantics and become more reasonable then we can end this conflict. This is the only rational approach. Otherwise a war is a very fluid situation; today those who seem invincible may prove to be house of clay the next day.
I do not see anything irrartional about the suicide bombings. As a matter of fact it seems quite rational. Look at it logically: If I am at war, I would choose a weapon that will work for me and not that doesn`t. Similarly, in any war the choice of weapon is yours and not your enemy`s. You don`t let enemy choose weapons for you. It is like telling one of the wrestler in a wrestling match that he can only use two kind of holds during the match and nothing else. It doesn`t need much imagination to see which wrestler would win.
The use of a religious book in this war is partly to motivate an ideological soldier and partly to get moral guidance on the conduct of war. All people use some kind of guidance for their conduct. Some people seek guidance from divine message and other from self constructed ethics. I have yet to see a convincing argument to compare which one is more rational than the other. If divine guidance is so irrational that it causes wars then by this same logic secular ethics should be preventing the wars, since it is alleged to be so rational. But we see that vice versa is true. The secular ethics have created some most vicious conflicts in the history of mankind in the past 500 years, compared to which religious ethics seems to be schoolyard code of conduct of a convent school.
I do not want to talk in terms of semantics, I do not think semantics have helped any of the party in any way or form. I think if we reduce our relliance on semantics and become more reasonable then we can end this conflict. This is the only rational approach. Otherwise a war is a very fluid situation; today those who seem invincible may prove to be house of clay the next day.
#7 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2006 10:26:51 am
(problem fixed)
Maybe Dr. Kevorkian would be the greatest authority on the subject. Why westerners are getting fed up with their lives. Why is their so much misery amid abundance. Why is there so much lonliness amidst canned laughter. Why the parents throw out children throw out parents throw out..ad nauseaum. Why the desire to kill millions in Vietnam Cambodia Iraq Bosnia Granada & hundred other countries to sow pseudo-prosperity at home.
Why America laughs so much , and yet is the unhappiest nation of all...given the % crime rate, Obesity, Cancer, heartattack, psychowhackos inluding psychilists like our Freedaho above, homelessness, destitudeness, apathy, plight of ``illegals`` & fear of the ``alien``.
Shielded by two ocewans for toooooo loooong; slave labor, virgin soil, itellectual-refugee pogroms, & decimation of the local populace enabled the thUGGs to amass so much capital to establish R&D ( the freedom for hit & trial & make mistakes--so ``invent`` & ``discover`` stuff).
America has been secure & smug for too long. It is time it gets included among nations with no special privileges & protocol.
The thUggs need major brain surgery--better still, it is advisable for them to commit suicide.
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM
The world`s oldest person celebrated his 115th birthday Monday in Puerto Rico, attributing his longevity to healthy eating and avoiding alcohol.
CBC News
Emiliano Mercado del Toro was feted at an outdoor party in the northwestern town of Isabela, where he was serenaded by his favourite singer, Iris Chacon.
``I never damaged my body with liquor,`` said Mercado, who was declared the world`s oldest last year by the Guinness Book of Records. An ambulance carried the wheelchair-bound man to an outdoor plaza where family, friends and the mayor gathered. Mercado has difficulty hearing and permanently lost his sight four years ago.
Mercado was a boy when the United States seized Puerto Rico from Spain in 1898. He trained in the U.S. Army in 1918, but the First World War ended before he saw battle.
As a young man, Mercado said, he worked for 50 cents US a day driving animals loaded with sugar cane to processing centres.
Mercado did have one vice in his life, but he kicked a 76-year smoking habit when he was 90.
According to Guinness, the oldest fully authenticated age belonged to Jeanne-Louise Calment of France. She lived 122 years and 164 days before dying in a nursing home in 1997.
With files from Associated Press
Maybe Dr. Kevorkian would be the greatest authority on the subject. Why westerners are getting fed up with their lives. Why is their so much misery amid abundance. Why is there so much lonliness amidst canned laughter. Why the parents throw out children throw out parents throw out..ad nauseaum. Why the desire to kill millions in Vietnam Cambodia Iraq Bosnia Granada & hundred other countries to sow pseudo-prosperity at home.
Why America laughs so much , and yet is the unhappiest nation of all...given the % crime rate, Obesity, Cancer, heartattack, psychowhackos inluding psychilists like our Freedaho above, homelessness, destitudeness, apathy, plight of ``illegals`` & fear of the ``alien``.
Shielded by two ocewans for toooooo loooong; slave labor, virgin soil, itellectual-refugee pogroms, & decimation of the local populace enabled the thUGGs to amass so much capital to establish R&D ( the freedom for hit & trial & make mistakes--so ``invent`` & ``discover`` stuff).
America has been secure & smug for too long. It is time it gets included among nations with no special privileges & protocol.
The thUggs need major brain surgery--better still, it is advisable for them to commit suicide.
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM
The world`s oldest person celebrated his 115th birthday Monday in Puerto Rico, attributing his longevity to healthy eating and avoiding alcohol.
CBC News
Emiliano Mercado del Toro was feted at an outdoor party in the northwestern town of Isabela, where he was serenaded by his favourite singer, Iris Chacon.
``I never damaged my body with liquor,`` said Mercado, who was declared the world`s oldest last year by the Guinness Book of Records. An ambulance carried the wheelchair-bound man to an outdoor plaza where family, friends and the mayor gathered. Mercado has difficulty hearing and permanently lost his sight four years ago.
Mercado was a boy when the United States seized Puerto Rico from Spain in 1898. He trained in the U.S. Army in 1918, but the First World War ended before he saw battle.
As a young man, Mercado said, he worked for 50 cents US a day driving animals loaded with sugar cane to processing centres.
Mercado did have one vice in his life, but he kicked a 76-year smoking habit when he was 90.
According to Guinness, the oldest fully authenticated age belonged to Jeanne-Louise Calment of France. She lived 122 years and 164 days before dying in a nursing home in 1997.
With files from Associated Press
#8 Posted by echoboom on August 22, 2006 10:28:15 am
correction:7
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOTSOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOTSOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
#9 Posted by Salim_Chauhan on August 22, 2006 10:32:17 am
Chowkies,
Please join a demonstration against lies told by Israeli reservists. There have been protests against the Israeli government by IDF reservists declaring that Israel lost the war with Hezbollah. Several military experts and university professors are alleging that Israel suffered its first real defeat in the recent 35+ day war.
Concerned Chowkies, led by Arjun-m, Tahmed14, Hamidumdum II, Injun, Mohar11, Gujja, and Dillidost have organized an inter-faith shinterfaith demonstration for support of Israel and against the lies being spread about the defeat of the IDF. The protest has the following goals:
1. Establishment of independent and unbiased commission, headed by Dubya, Blair, and Condomleasa Rice, of inquiry into allegations of a Hezbollah victory.
2. Dispatching of BJP/VHP/JS/RSS/SP/BD/SS volunteers to serve as UNIFIL peace keeping force in Southern Lebanon.
3. Ultimatum to Eye Ran to cease the design, manufacture, and delivery to Hezbollah of missiles, night-vision goggles, bullet-proof vests, anti-tank missiles, and anti-aircraft weapons.
4. Complete disarmament and disrobing of all Hezbollah fighters, especially Nasiroolah - the dhoti-clad UN force will perform this mission. All soiled dhotis will be washed in the Litani River by Tahmed13 and Hamidumdum, the self-appointed dhobi ke kuttay (na ghar ke na ghat ke).
5. Wahabbi Maulana Catchy will perform the religious ceremony to make UN peacekeeping force look just like the Israeli and Hezbollah fighters while the dhotis are being washed.
Please join a demonstration against lies told by Israeli reservists. There have been protests against the Israeli government by IDF reservists declaring that Israel lost the war with Hezbollah. Several military experts and university professors are alleging that Israel suffered its first real defeat in the recent 35+ day war.
Concerned Chowkies, led by Arjun-m, Tahmed14, Hamidumdum II, Injun, Mohar11, Gujja, and Dillidost have organized an inter-faith shinterfaith demonstration for support of Israel and against the lies being spread about the defeat of the IDF. The protest has the following goals:
1. Establishment of independent and unbiased commission, headed by Dubya, Blair, and Condomleasa Rice, of inquiry into allegations of a Hezbollah victory.
2. Dispatching of BJP/VHP/JS/RSS/SP/BD/SS volunteers to serve as UNIFIL peace keeping force in Southern Lebanon.
3. Ultimatum to Eye Ran to cease the design, manufacture, and delivery to Hezbollah of missiles, night-vision goggles, bullet-proof vests, anti-tank missiles, and anti-aircraft weapons.
4. Complete disarmament and disrobing of all Hezbollah fighters, especially Nasiroolah - the dhoti-clad UN force will perform this mission. All soiled dhotis will be washed in the Litani River by Tahmed13 and Hamidumdum, the self-appointed dhobi ke kuttay (na ghar ke na ghat ke).
5. Wahabbi Maulana Catchy will perform the religious ceremony to make UN peacekeeping force look just like the Israeli and Hezbollah fighters while the dhotis are being washed.
#10 Posted by freethinker on August 22, 2006 11:02:07 am
drsohail:
You, Sir, have presented a good analysis in your article. Thanks.
Mohammad Gill
You, Sir, have presented a good analysis in your article. Thanks.
Mohammad Gill
#11 Posted by Kulharee on August 22, 2006 11:20:20 am
Dr Sahib, what in your views were the political, social, colonial, imperial, religious, or other issues that the 19 middle class educated Saudi suicide bombers of the 9/11 faced?
The only thing common, other than a deep rooted mental illness, among all the bombers is that they are thoroughly brainwashed by Mullahs, as you will never see a Mullah blow himself up, he would happily hide in the caves or in presidential palaces in Damascus, than kill himself or send his own child on such a mission. While young brainwashed Muslims were blowing themselves up, Osama was officiating his son’s wedding to a young chick. So one more thing in common among the suicide bombers, that you neglected to list, is that they all come not from the leaders, but the foolish masses.
When are the suicide bombers being dispatched to Darfur to help Kalay Muslims?
The only thing common, other than a deep rooted mental illness, among all the bombers is that they are thoroughly brainwashed by Mullahs, as you will never see a Mullah blow himself up, he would happily hide in the caves or in presidential palaces in Damascus, than kill himself or send his own child on such a mission. While young brainwashed Muslims were blowing themselves up, Osama was officiating his son’s wedding to a young chick. So one more thing in common among the suicide bombers, that you neglected to list, is that they all come not from the leaders, but the foolish masses.
When are the suicide bombers being dispatched to Darfur to help Kalay Muslims?
#12 Posted by zeemax on August 22, 2006 11:22:47 am
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#13 Posted by Inquirer on August 22, 2006 11:52:15 am
Re: # 6, urstruly:
Essentially what you are saying is that in the clash betwen the West ( Christian) and Muslim World, Muslims are using suicide bombers as a tactic because they have enough people who are willing to sacrifice themselves, due to religious indoctrination and what not.
If you accept that then remember there will not be any control on the Christians exterminating Muslims in their own countries as the fifth column. In a nuclear confrontation between all Muslim countries combined vs. US, Britain, France, Germany and Russia, the Muslims have no chance to survive.
You have to realize that once all holds and bars are removed the Christians currently are powerful enough to delete West Asia from the globe. Therefore, be careful in allowing everything on your side!
Essentially what you are saying is that in the clash betwen the West ( Christian) and Muslim World, Muslims are using suicide bombers as a tactic because they have enough people who are willing to sacrifice themselves, due to religious indoctrination and what not.
If you accept that then remember there will not be any control on the Christians exterminating Muslims in their own countries as the fifth column. In a nuclear confrontation between all Muslim countries combined vs. US, Britain, France, Germany and Russia, the Muslims have no chance to survive.
You have to realize that once all holds and bars are removed the Christians currently are powerful enough to delete West Asia from the globe. Therefore, be careful in allowing everything on your side!
#15 Posted by Urstruly on August 22, 2006 12:12:56 pm
Re: # 13
I agree with your logical conclusion. In my opinion, the holocaust of Muslims in Christendom is just a matter of time or one large terrorsit attack away. The way the media in Chrsitendom is feeding the hatered against Muslims has an uncanny resemblence to the Nazi propaganda that initiated the Jewish holocaust in Europe. A google search with the term ``Nazi propaganda`` will show you how exactly the history is repeating itself. Logically, if you repeat a certain thing exactly as previously done, the results are most likely be the same.
And, yes, a nuclear attack on one or two Muslim countries is a most likely possibility as well, at this time. Tehran was the most anticipated and discussed target during the us embassy hostage debacle with in the circle of american warlords. But I do not think that they will incinerate one-quarter of the world just to prove to the corpses that they are the bigger dogs. And I also think that the nuclear threat, unless it materializes, can ever become a deterrent. Beacuse those who have taken up armed resistance against western hegemony and injustice have been able to extract fear out of themselves; they are willing to lay down their lives for a just cause; and it is a fact of life that once the fear is out of a people, it cannot be injected back.
I agree with your logical conclusion. In my opinion, the holocaust of Muslims in Christendom is just a matter of time or one large terrorsit attack away. The way the media in Chrsitendom is feeding the hatered against Muslims has an uncanny resemblence to the Nazi propaganda that initiated the Jewish holocaust in Europe. A google search with the term ``Nazi propaganda`` will show you how exactly the history is repeating itself. Logically, if you repeat a certain thing exactly as previously done, the results are most likely be the same.
And, yes, a nuclear attack on one or two Muslim countries is a most likely possibility as well, at this time. Tehran was the most anticipated and discussed target during the us embassy hostage debacle with in the circle of american warlords. But I do not think that they will incinerate one-quarter of the world just to prove to the corpses that they are the bigger dogs. And I also think that the nuclear threat, unless it materializes, can ever become a deterrent. Beacuse those who have taken up armed resistance against western hegemony and injustice have been able to extract fear out of themselves; they are willing to lay down their lives for a just cause; and it is a fact of life that once the fear is out of a people, it cannot be injected back.
#16 Posted by VRV on August 22, 2006 12:19:23 pm
Dr. Sohail,
You delivered the `Suicide Bomb` that people are expecting from you. I expected a more scientific analysis in this apart from social and political factors that work on the process. I appreciate the points of Inquirer on this.
I read the Time articles on suicide bombing. SB was once part of Intifada, now it`s fashionable for in all other causes.
Israel accenuated the problem and US blissfully ignorant of global consequences had contributed to this cultish orgy. Where thre was none George Bush (for fun on Dubya pl visit www.toostupidtobepresident.com) gave us this Al Queda. This monster could never be eliminated from this earth, becoz it`s invisible.
We have people in the US sit in couches and munch wafers and watch the US bomb some faraway places as fun. The US, the biggest proponent of democracy subverted democracy in all fora, bulldozed the world opinion in all possible ways. Well, the Islamists are not democrats either but US became morally weaker.
Even Tony Blair admitted that Palestine is the incubator of this SB poison. The West never forced Israel for a solution but instead they compounded the problem by sidelining PLO and propping up Hamas. The latest one as I can remember is Jenin and now Lebanon masacre. How this world can tolerate this kind of aggression of one state on the other?
On the other hand we have 180,000 black muslims killed in Darfur (http://darfurgenocide.org/darfur.php). Though many Muslims dont even look at this as a problem. WHY?
The US politics is a problem but IT`S AN EXCUSE TO WAGE WAR on non-Muslims and religious orthodoxy gives perfect excuse to such war in the form of Jihad, whereas the political clergy ignores the bigger problems (eg. darfur) as they do not constitute a Jihad.
WE HAVE NOW 2 CONFLICTING WORLDVIEWS. MANY RADICAL MUSLIMS DO NOT BELIEVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE OF DIFFERNT RELGIONS CAN COEXIST. THE OTHER ONE IS AN INCLUSIVE WORLDVIEW. We all know that when a country becomes Islamic, it`s life is excluded for other kinds of free thinking. Life begins and ends with Islam. The problem with the US is that it can be kicked in the guts by this world and make amends. For example the Gulf countries can stop oil supplies to the West for a couple of months and see the West coming to its knees... it`s not probable though...
An act of heroism as you said and martyrdom and place in heaven all instigate this cultish behaviour. A good reading for me.
You delivered the `Suicide Bomb` that people are expecting from you. I expected a more scientific analysis in this apart from social and political factors that work on the process. I appreciate the points of Inquirer on this.
I read the Time articles on suicide bombing. SB was once part of Intifada, now it`s fashionable for in all other causes.
Israel accenuated the problem and US blissfully ignorant of global consequences had contributed to this cultish orgy. Where thre was none George Bush (for fun on Dubya pl visit www.toostupidtobepresident.com) gave us this Al Queda. This monster could never be eliminated from this earth, becoz it`s invisible.
We have people in the US sit in couches and munch wafers and watch the US bomb some faraway places as fun. The US, the biggest proponent of democracy subverted democracy in all fora, bulldozed the world opinion in all possible ways. Well, the Islamists are not democrats either but US became morally weaker.
Even Tony Blair admitted that Palestine is the incubator of this SB poison. The West never forced Israel for a solution but instead they compounded the problem by sidelining PLO and propping up Hamas. The latest one as I can remember is Jenin and now Lebanon masacre. How this world can tolerate this kind of aggression of one state on the other?
On the other hand we have 180,000 black muslims killed in Darfur (http://darfurgenocide.org/darfur.php). Though many Muslims dont even look at this as a problem. WHY?
The US politics is a problem but IT`S AN EXCUSE TO WAGE WAR on non-Muslims and religious orthodoxy gives perfect excuse to such war in the form of Jihad, whereas the political clergy ignores the bigger problems (eg. darfur) as they do not constitute a Jihad.
WE HAVE NOW 2 CONFLICTING WORLDVIEWS. MANY RADICAL MUSLIMS DO NOT BELIEVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE OF DIFFERNT RELGIONS CAN COEXIST. THE OTHER ONE IS AN INCLUSIVE WORLDVIEW. We all know that when a country becomes Islamic, it`s life is excluded for other kinds of free thinking. Life begins and ends with Islam. The problem with the US is that it can be kicked in the guts by this world and make amends. For example the Gulf countries can stop oil supplies to the West for a couple of months and see the West coming to its knees... it`s not probable though...
An act of heroism as you said and martyrdom and place in heaven all instigate this cultish behaviour. A good reading for me.
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