Psychology of Suicide ’Bombers’

Re: # 127

Zee Baba,

You normally view all issues from Muslims and non-Muslims angle, now you say that he`s s Burmese (secular approach). Why dont you be consistent? What about his Sunni Muslim identity (keffiyah) and his suicide video msg? Very specific evidence.

The question we deal with is, whether this constitutes a guerilla-war or madness? We cant compare this guy with Palestenian bombers. Can we?

There4, this SB became a trait than being the ultimate weapon of the weakest agaisnt the mightiest? No?

Re: # 107
Dr. Sohail, I did not know that Lenin had written an article on guerilla warfare. Of course the term guerilla itself comes from Spanish ``little war`` that was fought against Napoleon when the French overran Spain. Maybe another article can tell us how mordern guerilla warfare is different from the older stuff. Congratulations on your book. I see it is available in paperback.
Do you agree with Kul`s statement that most suicide bombers suffer from low self esteem? Your research may have shown something.

GT
In the last bit of your post you are equating a complete belief in any system as akin to religion. I don`t disagree. But suicide bombers come out of various societal stratas. The intellectuals would see themselves as saviours. However there is also a possibility of people doing it because of sheer hopelessness of their situation. Sometimes it seems to them that, that is the only choice. Maybe they do it only for themselves.

Zee
You said motivation was the underlying cause. What exactly is this motivation? I think a suicide bomber wants or at least his/her inspirational sources want a greater statement than that provided by an ordinary guerilla fighter. But how does one convince oneself or is convinced that one`s extinction will ignite a passion for one`s beliefs.

Kul , the first suicide bombers need not have been Persian. I`m curious here because members of my own Nair community have had suicide squads called ``chavers`` formed during the Chola-Chera wars of South India (between 900 - 1050 CE) long before Kami-Kazes et al, . Their existence has been documented in Portuguese writings. In their battles with the Portuguese no quarter was asked or given. Of course these were entirely military actions and when you read the old texts some of it was not sensible. At least till the Malabar Kings learnt to cast their own cannons by capturing a couple of Italians the suicide squads armed with swords did not make much impression against the Portuguese galleons on the sea. On land it was a different story. Here the motivation was not religion or even fealty to the king, but family pride.

Re: # 116 by zeemax

zee,

We almost fully agree. But look at the p.s. Here i define what I think religion is, not just Islam. Your comments on my definition will allow us to generalize and not concentrate only on Islamic `suicide bombers`.

Regards

VRV,

Really you amaze me. ``Sunni Muslim identity (keffiyah) and his suicide video msg?

Do you know that Hazballah is Shia? And they carried out the most effective suicide bombings back in 1983 driving out not only the US but also France from Lebanon?

You know, actually, the truth is the truth.

And that truth is people like you, and there`re plenty of them, are heartened with every disaster befallen upon Muslims, and are encouraged with every shadow cast over their unity, or indication of any division amongst them, whether true or false.

The Muslim Ummah is nothing but unity.

But then again, as they say, you have to do what you have to do, and we have to do what we have to do.

No problem. That`s what the scorpion said to the tortoise after it had carried the scorpion on his back across the river and the scorpion stung the tortoise in the middle and they both drowned.

The scorpion had said ``I can`t help it. It is in my nature``.

#115 Salim: What I stated is factual - Karachi has been the traditional stronghold of religious parties, along with NWFP. Not the Panjab, which has served as the base for moderate, secular parties like PPP.

So what I wrote was actual.

Now go ahead and write some more abuse. That says a lot about you and your filthy upbringing, and nothing about me.

Re: # 132

Zee Baba,

When stumped you resort to this... Muslim Ummah...etc etc...

I know you can start a theory that this suicide bomber is a Jew or a Hindu to defame Pakistan.

Parables have some context. I love them.

If you can read my posts, you would understand if I supported this attack on Lebanese/Jewish civilians or not. My conscience is clear, I am a humanist. It doesn`t matter if you are a Muslim or somebody else.

Nobody stops you from being united, united with all human beings not within Muslims.

Love and Peace. Good Night.

#131 by GT

p.s.: For me religion is a set of black and white (probability one) beliefs. Since they are probability one priors, the concept of updation given contrary evidence is `undefined` (as it implies division by zero). Since it is undefined, any updated probability is rational. Thus: (a) belief in a perfect Tamil state, or any social system, or shintoism is religion for me as long as they are probability one priors; (b) a person with probability one prion who always keeps his posterior beliefs at probability one could potentially be a suicide bomber.

Yes that`s the problem with any organised religion. In fact, all escatological religions have the same motivations. But, and it`s a big but, 16 year olds have not had this introspection and the motive is environmental alone. It is always the cause.

So, religion or no religion, if the cause is compelling enough, life has no meaning and death is better if it eliminates some enemies by taking that course. (Of-course, we have to agree on the definition of enemy first).

VrV,

My point was simply this:

And that truth is people like you, and there`re plenty of them, are heartened with every disaster befallen upon Muslims, and are encouraged with every shadow cast over their unity, or indication of any division amongst them, whether true or false.

...contd...

And you can read my posts from 1999 onwards if you believe I`m not a humanist.

Good Night my friend. There`s no need to pretend. It is always in the `nature`.

#110 Zeemax

I agree in theory that there is an animal inside every man. And when I see, carnage, oppression, and torture in Iraq, Afghanistan, Kosovo, Bosnia, Kashmir, Gujrat, Chechneya, Lebanon, Palestine, and Abu Gharaib, I feel absoluetly hopeless and find it impossible to get that animal out of man.

The only ray of hope in this utter despair seems to be the life of our Holy Prophet (pbuh). He was able to get that animal out of the lowliest and cruelest of the animals who were wearing the skins of men. I find his life nothing short of a miracle if we do an objective analysis. This should also remind us the extent of the burden that we are required to shoulder after Holy Prophet (pbuh) till the End of the Days. He has set the bar so high for us.

Re: # 138
Darfur

Tahmed5 #133 {``#115 Salim: What I stated is factual - Karachi has been the traditional stronghold of religious parties, along with NWFP. Not the Panjab, which has served as the base for moderate, secular parties like PPP.

So what I wrote was actual.

Now go ahead and write some more abuse. That says a lot about you and your filthy upbringing, and nothing about me. ``}

Tahmed4,
Karachi is the cosmopolitan commercial hub and largest city of Pakistan. All kinds of good people and kooks are drawn to our city - including jihadist terrorists, sectarian terrorists, and petty criminals from up north. It is a fact that the Sipah-e-Sahaba, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi, Lashkar-e-Toyba, and others are mostly from up north - even your holy Punjab. By the way, please enlighten us about the exact location of Jhang. Perhaps, more informed individuals like Asif Bhai can correct your erroneous statements.

Now, as for my ``filthy`` upbringing, I take pride in not being a blind gora ass-licker and a racist bigot who doesn`t even have the compassion to repatriate ``stranded`` Pakis just because of the color of their skins.

Would it follow then that a follower of a non eschatological religion would not find it at easy to be a suicide bomber?
Perhaps the very absence of a final doctrine would make it easier to be one. No guilt.

Still I would agree with HP. It takes a lot of political indoctrination ( you can add religion here) to make a suicide bomber. The current number of attacks may be the fruition of years of conditioning. It may die down soon or continue depending on the supply or whether circumstances determine whether such attacks are necessary.

#138 by Urstruly

Yes Urstruly. Muhammad was an extraordinary person ... indeed, supernatural. I have stated many times on these boards that it is Muhammad, and only Muhammad, who lights up the hearts till this day, and His inspiration has increased rather than diminished in 1400+ years.

I would like to add upon your statement that ``He was able to get that animal out of the lowliest and cruelest of the animals...

I have a somewhat different view. He never took that animal out. He knew who was what kind of an animal and dealt with them accordingly. That was Muhammad.

He knew perfectly well we all are animals, and recognised immediately what characteristics each displayed. The difference is that a horse is an animal too, so is a Lion or Tiger, and so are different breeds of dogs. All are animals, but nothing wrong with that. Some are good, some are bad. That`s all. Muhammad taught us who is what.

And, some are hyenas.

Re: # 136

Zee Baba,

Peace Be Upon You.

Pl dont take it personally, we discuss if we can on this serious subject or else leave it here.

Thanks.

#141 by swarrier

Would it follow then that a follower of a non eschatological religion would not find it at easy to be a suicide bomber?

No. I`m not sure if the Shinto Imperial Kamikaze were eschatoligical. Are you?

That is why I stress upon the `cause`, and nothing else.