Psychology of Suicide ’Bombers’

suicide bombing is not a psychological problem, it is a political problem. If past five years of history of war against terrorism, which has cost hundereds of thousangds of innocent human beings their precious lives, has a lesson in it, it is that that you cannot cure toothache with chopping off a limb; whether you like it or not you have to address the problem for what it is.

I totally agree with Khalid Sohail, though he has not presented any avenues for action. But I look forward to interact with urstruly on these issues.

As I see it, briefly, the problems are:

1. There is a deeply irrational wing of Muslims who are deliberately overemphasizing the somewhat antiquated statements in Koran. I mean no disrespect for the Book. I respect it just as I do the Vedas. But I assert that ALL scriptures have dated statements and they need to be demphasized AND forgotten as the world learns of new FACTS.

2. The Western World has to stop exploiting the rest of the World. The problem with democracies, without exception, is that people who work with it do not like to accept harsh truths, particularly those that would require lowering of the standard of living. These people need to learn that they should not interfere in other countries conditions. Even if the objective is to improve the living condition in other countries. The Western world needs to desist from planting the dictators who would faun on them and exploit their own populace.

3. The essential feature of democracies is the separation of religion and state and the western democracies should reassert their requirements for help to other countries, namely, any help would be available only if the INTERNAL leaders of those countries will live by the democratic rule requirements. This would necessarily involve not supporting the dictatorial rulers. ONE MAN ONE VOTE, COMBINED ELECTORATES AND FINITE TERMS MUST BE REQUIRED.

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

correction:3

MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOT SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY

Two questions:

1) Why is it that blowing up people from the air with joy-stick controlled bombs is fine, while doing the same thing with the same bomb wrapped around a body is questionable?

2) Dr. Sohail, before writing this treatise, have you ever met a suicide bomber?

Re: # 2

I do not see anything irrartional about the suicide bombings. As a matter of fact it seems quite rational. Look at it logically: If I am at war, I would choose a weapon that will work for me and not that doesn`t. Similarly, in any war the choice of weapon is yours and not your enemy`s. You don`t let enemy choose weapons for you. It is like telling one of the wrestler in a wrestling match that he can only use two kind of holds during the match and nothing else. It doesn`t need much imagination to see which wrestler would win.

The use of a religious book in this war is partly to motivate an ideological soldier and partly to get moral guidance on the conduct of war. All people use some kind of guidance for their conduct. Some people seek guidance from divine message and other from self constructed ethics. I have yet to see a convincing argument to compare which one is more rational than the other. If divine guidance is so irrational that it causes wars then by this same logic secular ethics should be preventing the wars, since it is alleged to be so rational. But we see that vice versa is true. The secular ethics have created some most vicious conflicts in the history of mankind in the past 500 years, compared to which religious ethics seems to be schoolyard code of conduct of a convent school.

I do not want to talk in terms of semantics, I do not think semantics have helped any of the party in any way or form. I think if we reduce our relliance on semantics and become more reasonable then we can end this conflict. This is the only rational approach. Otherwise a war is a very fluid situation; today those who seem invincible may prove to be house of clay the next day.

(problem fixed)
Maybe Dr. Kevorkian would be the greatest authority on the subject. Why westerners are getting fed up with their lives. Why is their so much misery amid abundance. Why is there so much lonliness amidst canned laughter. Why the parents throw out children throw out parents throw out..ad nauseaum. Why the desire to kill millions in Vietnam Cambodia Iraq Bosnia Granada & hundred other countries to sow pseudo-prosperity at home.

Why America laughs so much , and yet is the unhappiest nation of all...given the % crime rate, Obesity, Cancer, heartattack, psychowhackos inluding psychilists like our Freedaho above, homelessness, destitudeness, apathy, plight of ``illegals`` & fear of the ``alien``.

Shielded by two ocewans for toooooo loooong; slave labor, virgin soil, itellectual-refugee pogroms, & decimation of the local populace enabled the thUGGs to amass so much capital to establish R&D ( the freedom for hit & trial & make mistakes--so ``invent`` & ``discover`` stuff).

America has been secure & smug for too long. It is time it gets included among nations with no special privileges & protocol.

The thUggs need major brain surgery--better still, it is advisable for them to commit suicide.

MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS SOUL_LESS PROSPERITY
World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM






World`s oldest person turns 115
21/08/2006 11:47:29 PM

The world`s oldest person celebrated his 115th birthday Monday in Puerto Rico, attributing his longevity to healthy eating and avoiding alcohol.

CBC News


Emiliano Mercado del Toro was feted at an outdoor party in the northwestern town of Isabela, where he was serenaded by his favourite singer, Iris Chacon.


``I never damaged my body with liquor,`` said Mercado, who was declared the world`s oldest last year by the Guinness Book of Records. An ambulance carried the wheelchair-bound man to an outdoor plaza where family, friends and the mayor gathered. Mercado has difficulty hearing and permanently lost his sight four years ago.


Mercado was a boy when the United States seized Puerto Rico from Spain in 1898. He trained in the U.S. Army in 1918, but the First World War ended before he saw battle.


As a young man, Mercado said, he worked for 50 cents US a day driving animals loaded with sugar cane to processing centres.


Mercado did have one vice in his life, but he kicked a 76-year smoking habit when he was 90.


According to Guinness, the oldest fully authenticated age belonged to Jeanne-Louise Calment of France. She lived 122 years and 164 days before dying in a nursing home in 1997.


With files from Associated Press

correction:7


MEANWHILE, ELSWHERE IN THE WORLD, WHERE HAPPINESS IS NOTSOUL_LESS PROSPERITY

Chowkies,

Please join a demonstration against lies told by Israeli reservists. There have been protests against the Israeli government by IDF reservists declaring that Israel lost the war with Hezbollah. Several military experts and university professors are alleging that Israel suffered its first real defeat in the recent 35+ day war.

Concerned Chowkies, led by Arjun-m, Tahmed14, Hamidumdum II, Injun, Mohar11, Gujja, and Dillidost have organized an inter-faith shinterfaith demonstration for support of Israel and against the lies being spread about the defeat of the IDF. The protest has the following goals:

1. Establishment of independent and unbiased commission, headed by Dubya, Blair, and Condomleasa Rice, of inquiry into allegations of a Hezbollah victory.

2. Dispatching of BJP/VHP/JS/RSS/SP/BD/SS volunteers to serve as UNIFIL peace keeping force in Southern Lebanon.

3. Ultimatum to Eye Ran to cease the design, manufacture, and delivery to Hezbollah of missiles, night-vision goggles, bullet-proof vests, anti-tank missiles, and anti-aircraft weapons.

4. Complete disarmament and disrobing of all Hezbollah fighters, especially Nasiroolah - the dhoti-clad UN force will perform this mission. All soiled dhotis will be washed in the Litani River by Tahmed13 and Hamidumdum, the self-appointed dhobi ke kuttay (na ghar ke na ghat ke).

5. Wahabbi Maulana Catchy will perform the religious ceremony to make UN peacekeeping force look just like the Israeli and Hezbollah fighters while the dhotis are being washed.

drsohail:
You, Sir, have presented a good analysis in your article. Thanks.
Mohammad Gill

Dr Sahib, what in your views were the political, social, colonial, imperial, religious, or other issues that the 19 middle class educated Saudi suicide bombers of the 9/11 faced?

The only thing common, other than a deep rooted mental illness, among all the bombers is that they are thoroughly brainwashed by Mullahs, as you will never see a Mullah blow himself up, he would happily hide in the caves or in presidential palaces in Damascus, than kill himself or send his own child on such a mission. While young brainwashed Muslims were blowing themselves up, Osama was officiating his son’s wedding to a young chick. So one more thing in common among the suicide bombers, that you neglected to list, is that they all come not from the leaders, but the foolish masses.

When are the suicide bombers being dispatched to Darfur to help Kalay Muslims?

=== Interact Filtered ===
view this users filtered interacts

Re: # 6, urstruly:
Essentially what you are saying is that in the clash betwen the West ( Christian) and Muslim World, Muslims are using suicide bombers as a tactic because they have enough people who are willing to sacrifice themselves, due to religious indoctrination and what not.

If you accept that then remember there will not be any control on the Christians exterminating Muslims in their own countries as the fifth column. In a nuclear confrontation between all Muslim countries combined vs. US, Britain, France, Germany and Russia, the Muslims have no chance to survive.

You have to realize that once all holds and bars are removed the Christians currently are powerful enough to delete West Asia from the globe. Therefore, be careful in allowing everything on your side!

Re: # 11, Kulharee:

EXACTLY, RIGHT.

Re: # 13

I agree with your logical conclusion. In my opinion, the holocaust of Muslims in Christendom is just a matter of time or one large terrorsit attack away. The way the media in Chrsitendom is feeding the hatered against Muslims has an uncanny resemblence to the Nazi propaganda that initiated the Jewish holocaust in Europe. A google search with the term ``Nazi propaganda`` will show you how exactly the history is repeating itself. Logically, if you repeat a certain thing exactly as previously done, the results are most likely be the same.

And, yes, a nuclear attack on one or two Muslim countries is a most likely possibility as well, at this time. Tehran was the most anticipated and discussed target during the us embassy hostage debacle with in the circle of american warlords. But I do not think that they will incinerate one-quarter of the world just to prove to the corpses that they are the bigger dogs. And I also think that the nuclear threat, unless it materializes, can ever become a deterrent. Beacuse those who have taken up armed resistance against western hegemony and injustice have been able to extract fear out of themselves; they are willing to lay down their lives for a just cause; and it is a fact of life that once the fear is out of a people, it cannot be injected back.

Dr. Sohail,

You delivered the `Suicide Bomb` that people are expecting from you. I expected a more scientific analysis in this apart from social and political factors that work on the process. I appreciate the points of Inquirer on this.

I read the Time articles on suicide bombing. SB was once part of Intifada, now it`s fashionable for in all other causes.

Israel accenuated the problem and US blissfully ignorant of global consequences had contributed to this cultish orgy. Where thre was none George Bush (for fun on Dubya pl visit www.toostupidtobepresident.com) gave us this Al Queda. This monster could never be eliminated from this earth, becoz it`s invisible.

We have people in the US sit in couches and munch wafers and watch the US bomb some faraway places as fun. The US, the biggest proponent of democracy subverted democracy in all fora, bulldozed the world opinion in all possible ways. Well, the Islamists are not democrats either but US became morally weaker.

Even Tony Blair admitted that Palestine is the incubator of this SB poison. The West never forced Israel for a solution but instead they compounded the problem by sidelining PLO and propping up Hamas. The latest one as I can remember is Jenin and now Lebanon masacre. How this world can tolerate this kind of aggression of one state on the other?

On the other hand we have 180,000 black muslims killed in Darfur (http://darfurgenocide.org/darfur.php). Though many Muslims dont even look at this as a problem. WHY?

The US politics is a problem but IT`S AN EXCUSE TO WAGE WAR on non-Muslims and religious orthodoxy gives perfect excuse to such war in the form of Jihad, whereas the political clergy ignores the bigger problems (eg. darfur) as they do not constitute a Jihad.

WE HAVE NOW 2 CONFLICTING WORLDVIEWS. MANY RADICAL MUSLIMS DO NOT BELIEVE IN A WORLD WHERE PEOPLE OF DIFFERNT RELGIONS CAN COEXIST. THE OTHER ONE IS AN INCLUSIVE WORLDVIEW. We all know that when a country becomes Islamic, it`s life is excluded for other kinds of free thinking. Life begins and ends with Islam. The problem with the US is that it can be kicked in the guts by this world and make amends. For example the Gulf countries can stop oil supplies to the West for a couple of months and see the West coming to its knees... it`s not probable though...

An act of heroism as you said and martyrdom and place in heaven all instigate this cultish behaviour. A good reading for me.

Please spare poor Pheeda , the Psychilist.

Here is a short, sweet and explosive reason



Occupation Basics I - Making of Suicide Bombers

mainstream media outlets...Unlike the trash doled out to us: ``the palestinians are dying for 72 virgins.`` Give them missiles and they won`t commit suicide ...
DA Underground Films - 3 min

#15,urstruly:

``In my opinion, the holocaust of Muslims in Christendom is just a matter of time or one large terrorsit attack away.``
****The very fact that you characterize the attack as terroristic shows that you do not approve of it at some level. And you may very well be right about the finality. Before picking up military quarrel one has to weigh one`s military strength and when you find you do not have the matching strength you have to be prudent because the enemy might very well do what you should fear.****

``a nuclear attack on one or two Muslim countries is a most likely possibility as well, at this time.``
****I am afraid it may not be that farfetched to imagine your scenario.****

``those who have taken up armed resistance against western hegemony and injustice have been able to extract fear out of themselves; they are willing to lay down their lives for a just cause;``
****Need I say anymore that what I said before. Could you tell me what would be the most optimistic consequence of three tactical nuclear drops on Tehran, Damascas and Aden?
The question is not of injecting fear but assessment of the ability of executable strength. It is better to avoid the worst enemy response by using prudence.
As I see the best strategy for Islamic countries is to demand and arrange for fair elections and change to the internal regimes that can better withstand the western dominance.****

Re: # 17
Echo, nice documentary, but how do you explain the suicide bombers that kill Shias in their mosques to inflict ‘maximum’ damage – I am talking about Shia mosques in Pakistan (not in Iraq). And what Pakistani Shias have ‘occupied’ the ‘Sunni’ land? The truth of the matter is that those who encourage and brainwash these poor suckers laugh all the way to bank and back. Saudi give 25K to every suicide bomber family, Iranians hand out a similar amount, so suicide bombing is a big business and in addition to getting 72 virgin goats, it also helps feed a family.

#18

``when you find you do not have the matching strength you have to be prudent because the enemy might very well do what you should fear.**** ``

Typical Khasi strategy. Khasis Have been using it for one thousand years successfully...
Human fight back...

“From a psychological point of view a ‘suicide bomber’ symbolizes a contradiction, vulnerable yet strong at the same time. He wants to remain anonymous yet remembered in the history of his community as a hero. He wants to die and yet also live forever. He is the most rational being in planning his attack and yet acts in the most irrational way by being destructive to himself and others.”

Dr. Sahib,
This does not appear to be psychological analyses. You are describing every soldier paid or unpaid who goes to war knowing that he may not return alive.

Per your analysis, every soldier who aspires to die in a war wishes to commit suicide.

How would you differentiate in a state paid soldier and a volunteer soldier based on your analysis, considering that they both know they will most likely die in a war?

Re: # 21

HP Sahib, do you know of any soldier that will willingly shove a grenade up his anus and blow himself up willingly? Professional soldiers are not trained to kill themselves, but the enemy.

Re: # 18

Personally, I do not believe in liberal democracy and those Muslims who are educated enough ( i.e. have basic knowledge in Islamic jurisprudence, system of governance, economics, islamic system of egalitarianism and social justice) do not believe that liberal democracy will ever work in any Muslim land). The only workable political system that will work in Muslim lands is Nizam-e-Mustafa (law of Prophet). This is common sense. In every country of the world the system of values becomes its laws. The source of Muslim values is Islam, Qura`n, oand Holy Prophet (pbuh). If we adopt liberal democracy it means that we think our values, our God, and his Prophet (pbuh) to be inferior to our logical abilities. The underlying assumption in liberal democracy is that God is not good enough to solve social problems of people. This idea is insane. Had Nizam-e-Mustafa been a new thing, one could have doubts about it but when it had been in practice for 14 centuries successfully, then doubting it is pure insanity and irrationality.

This brings our i.e. Muslim objectives in direct contradiction with that of West (if we give them the benefit of doubt and assume that they are serious about democracy in Muslim world). Having said that, the realtionship between West and Muslim world can only be of two types:

1. Egalitarian, just and equitable; based on the prnciples of tolerance and mutual co-existance or

2. Master-slave relationship.

#2 is the current status quo. Muslims are trying to change that.

``It is so tragic that even in the 21st.century rather than being civilized and enlightened, living with peace, harmony and love and realizing that all of us are members of the same family, the human family, we are still considering members of other religions, sects, tribes, countries and communities as our enemies and then demonizing them to such an extent that we are willing to take their lives with no stab of conscience whether as army officers in the West or as ‘suicide bombers’ in the East. We still do not realize that we are all children of Mother Earth, our enemies are our distant cousins and all human beings are equally sacred. How sad? ``

There is nothing in the conclusion that could be called psychological analysis. I am afraid you are making political statement and covring it up by using your professional qualification. That is really not honest.

The suicide bomber has a psychological profile but it does not match with what you are describing...
I think you don’t understand the phenomenon at all....psychological or political....

#22 by Kulharee
``do you know of any soldier that will willingly shove a grenade up his anus and blow himself up willingly?``

Yes! you just did that....If you are here to argue come back with some arguement not with your anus...

Re: # 20

hp:

``Typical Khasi strategy. Khasis Have been using it for one thousand years successfully...
Human fight back... ``

I wonder why the Baasis have climbed down from ``thousand year war`` to begging for kashmir then????

Re: # 25
There we go again HP Sahib, what a Khasi attitude, when you have nothing to say, you come back with smart alec bulcrap to try to impress yourself.

I was trying to make a distinction between a trained professional soldier and your wahabi dudes with their heads up their anus looking for 72 goats. But it flew over your little khasi brains. It’s OK.

Sohail,

Good piece.

Would you say that a new set of ethics is evolving in the periphery of the Muslim world? This set of ethics is not only challenging Western ethics, but is also challenging the center of Muslim dogma, jurispudence and polity? The suicide bomber should also be understood from the perspective of this new ethic.

I have been reading a bit on the present effort (jehad) against what is perceived to be `evil`. The `evil` is defined in very modern and contemporary terms by people like OBL - and more coherently than his counterpart G.W.Bush. More emphasis is put on economic concepts like imperialism and exploitation than on spiritualism per se - though the shia concept of `martyrs` is much emphasized. Furthermore, and I am not at all an expert on this, it seems that much more emphasis is put on the constitutional aspect of the Koran than on its spiritual aspect. Thus, this new ethic - like Christian protestants in the past - is also developing a well defined political ideology. This ideology, with its myths, martyrs and the Prophet`s cape (remember Mullah Omar) is romantic (unlike strict Wahabbism). Members of this new movement are spatially spread out and the leaders are in hiding. Thus, there is an emphasis on each member to individually develop and inculcate this new ethic directly from the widely available Koran. Romance, emphasis on individualism, and a well defined Constitution (the Koran) can provide enough ammunation against a well defined `evil` system. Christian protestants, like the Calvinists, did the same after the Reformation. Some of them came to the US and implemented the romantic `American values` and the Constitution. Guess what - Americans are still willing to die and KILL to protect `American Values` and the Constitution. Same goes for the suicide bomber.

The issue is not: why is a suicide bomber willing to die. The issue is: how is he going to change his tactics in the future such that he can WIN without blowing himself up.

I am interested because I do not want him to win .... at least not with his present set of puritanical ethics.

kulharee # 11 ``The only thing common, other than a deep rooted mental illness, among all the bombers is that they are thoroughly brainwashed by Mullahs, as you will never see a Mullah blow himself up, he would happily hide in the caves or in presidential palaces in Damascus``

I am sure when you say ``all bombers``, you include the ones who bomb from the helicopters, F-16s, and via tomahawk missiles aboard air craft carriers. These ``men and women in uniform`` are also thoroughly brainwashed by their presidents and prime ministers. You will never see Mr. Bush, for instance, pilot a fighter jet over iraq to bomb insurgents. In fact, when he was given a chance to serve his country back in vietnam days, he actively sought to dodge draft. He would rather be in his ranch than suffering with his troops, thousands of whom have perished or gotten cripplingly injured. These troops were indoctrinated that they were bombing people into learning democracy. How funny, if not sad!

So if you are fair, at least you would put mullah and Bush in the same category. The only debate that is left is the method that their respective brainwashed armies have at their disposal. And as Urstruly has adequately elaborated, you cant dictate what weapons your enemy can choose. If you are going to ask hezbollah to not use suicide bombers, then perhaps hezbollah have a right to ask Israel to not use air power.

#27 by Kulharee

What you wrote was pure non sense. Professional soldiers are trained to kill. Obviously you dont know this and thats why you got the answer that you so richly deserved...

Re: # 20
[...Human fight back...]

Yep - humans fought back and survived.... but pakis just rolled over and converted to the bedouin`s barbaric cult... so much so that - today we have a 150 million of them who pretend to be more arab then arabs themselves... :)))

Re: # 21:
``Per your analysis, every soldier who aspires to die in a war wishes to commit suicide. ``

Charateristic and deliberate obfuscation!

A soldier fights for a cause against other opposing soldiers preserving himself at every instant. No doubt he knows he can be had.

Suicider sneaks around and knows full well that he is out to kill not the active enemy but a hapless bystander. A suicider is sick and deluded, a soldier is an exemplary fighter.

I thought every one knew it. But let HP also know it!

Re: # 23, urstruly:
You are stuck in a rut urstruly.

Yes at one time it worked. But the world has changed and now the Muslims are neither most educated nor most powerful.

They have been dumb enough to surrender their individuality to hereditary kings and dictators who do the bidding of their foreign protectors. Because that allows them to heave the Swiss accounts.

#32 Khasi

Here is the complete statement...dont start showing your khasi habits here...

``Per your analysis, every soldier who aspires to die in a war wishes to commit suicide.
How would you differentiate in a state paid soldier and a volunteer soldier based on your analysis, considering that they both know they will most likely die in a war? ``

why was khamkhwa banned and then his other login allowed to post as khalid sohail?

{``Being a peace-loving humanist I value life and do not support violent death, whether in the form of suicide or homicide....Whether they are ‘suicide bombers’ of the Muslim world who follow the path of Osama or the soldiers of the Christian world who follow the orders of Bush and Blair, all of them have embraced violence and are willing to kill innocent civilians for their nationalistic and religious ideologies and continue to justify violence as a means to an end. ``}

Sohail Sahib,
A very deep and thorough analysis that is both informative and objective. Like you, I share the ``peace-loving humanist`` values and am saddened by mankind`s resolve to continue our barbaric behavior with thinly-disguised covers of ``civilized behavior, international norms, acceptable modes of homicide, martyrdom, self-determination, human rights, and various interpretations of The Geneva Convention.``

Tragically, I have reached the conclusion that human beings naturally love to RPP (rape, pillage, and plunder) and now we have added torture, sadism, murder, and terror to the standard ancient rituals. We will find any excuse to split into sides or ``teams`` to commit violence and as a result enjoy raping, pillaging, plundering, torturing, murdering, and terrorizing. Of course, we recognize that somehow all these things are wrong and so we have accumulated several ``benign`` concepts to justify our otherwise horrid pleasures. We now do it for ``freedom, liberty, self-defense, God, goddesses, democracy, faith, religion, revenge, land, birth rights, NATO, UN, AlKayda, and the Holocaust.`` Is it any wonder that we find various adversarial roles to enjoy our passion for violence?

Jew/Gentile
White/Black
Christian/Muslim
Muslim/Hindu
Upper Caste/Lower Caste
Crusader/Jihadist
Shia/Sunni
Catholic/Protestant
Communist/Capitalist
Lions/Christians
Lions/Bears
Cowboys/Redskins
Israeli/Palestinian
Arab/Ajam
Aryan/Dravidian
England/Pakistan
US-UK-Israel/ROW (Rest of World, except India)

It`s bad enough to commit violence. It is a real shame when we place rules to kill by and then invoke righteousness to distinguish our killing from their killing - as if there is an honorable way to murder and a dishonorable one. Shame, shame, shame.

inquirer # 32 ``A soldier fights for a cause against other opposing soldiers preserving himself at every instant. No doubt he knows he can be had.``

By your own very definition, the line between suicide bomber and soldier has blurred in the 20th century. Thanks to the air power and missile technology, you no longer have to come face to face with the enemy soldier in a defined battle field. In fact, enemy`s country IS the battlefield. 30 million Russian civilians (not soldiers) died during WWII. The German city of Dresden was fire bombed to oblivion by allied forces. Baghdad was ``shock and awed`` by uniformed soldiers who knew fully well that innocent civilians lived there.

An interesting tid bit. Of the 1500 Lebanese who died during the recent war, 1200 were civilians. Ironically, of the 160 Israelis who died in the same war, 120 were soldiers. By that standard, Hezbollah comes across as more of the old fashioned ethical soldier type of your definition than the uniformed and trained Israeli army.

Re: # 34,HP:
You DO NEED explanations!

Your statement regarding the quoted paragraph is a non sequitur. No where has Sohail said in the quoted paragraph that a soldier wants to die. As a matter of fact no soldier wants to die.

All suiciders, Islamic, Jihadic or otherwise are cowards under delusion but a soldier preserves himself against all odds knowing full well that he could be killed at any instant.

HE DOES NOT WANT TO DIE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND NOW?

Re: # 34

In most democratic armies soldiers are volunteers, whether paid by the state or not. People become soldiers for many reasons, not just to die. Even in battle a soldier in an army seeks to kill his opponents and stay alive, unless there is no other alternative.

A suicide bomber goes into action to commit suicide. There is no retreat or negotiation or alternative.

Re: # 26
[...I wonder why the Baasis have climbed down from ``thousand year war`` to begging for kashmir then????...]

pakis have already given up on kashmir... they are actually begging khasis to save them from the joos... from ``death by thousand cuts`` to ``save us from joos``... the transformation has been dramatic... all it took was a few daisy cutters...

But the bigger question is: why are pakis trying to be more arab than arabs themselves?... why are pakis blowing themselves up for the arab ``cause``?... do arabs ever care about a paki ``cause``?...

Re: # 37, Malik99:
But the bombers of Dresden, Bagdad or Lebanon were NOT suiciders!!!!
CLEAR?

Guys,

Take it easy. The question is that of becomming a martyr. Remember Jesus Christ, HE WANTED TO DIE to save others. HE DIED FOR A CAUSE. In that, suicide bombers are the same: they WANT to die for a cause. Now they kill too. They do so because they believe that; (a) the ones they kill are evil or help perpetuate evil; AND/OR (b) by killing a few they help bring about greater good to a larger set of people. That is all there is to it. This phenomenon is as old as history as we know it. Let us not pretend that it is something new because CNN says so.

inquirer #41 - ``But the bombers of Dresden, Bagdad or Lebanon were NOT suiciders!!!!
CLEAR?``

So you are suggesting that all those thousands of civilians who died in dresden, baghdad, and lebanon as a result of bombs thrown at them from air, died happily knowing that at least their death was not the result of a suicide bombing?

Essentially you are differentiating between the deliberate killing of civilians via, say, carpet bombing and deliberate killing of civilians via suicide bombing.

Re: # 43, Malik99:
You are getting confused our point was not about those who get killed due to military bombing or suicide bombing. We were concerned about the bombers. I only stated that there is no similarity between a bomber pilot and suicide bomber. Unless you like to obfuscate the issue as HP was deliberately doing.

Mohar 11 #40 {``pakis have already given up on kashmir... they are actually begging khasis to save them from the joos... from ``death by thousand cuts`` to ``save us from joos``... the transformation has been dramatic... all it took was a few daisy cutters...

But the bigger question is: why are pakis trying to be more arab than arabs themselves?... why are pakis blowing themselves up for the arab ``cause``?... do arabs ever care about a paki ``cause``?...``:}

Mohar Bhayya,
Because Hezbollah, who are after all Arabs, stole the ``1 momin = 10 kaffirs`` ratio from us Pakis, when the 3000 Hezbies beat the 30,000 Hebes unleashed on them. The 30,000 does not include the ones in the air or hiding in basements.
With the Hezboola courage and Paki nuke, momins can finally kick some ass.

Dr.Sohail
I find this statement in your article to be the most interesting.

`` Schopenhauer, the philosopher, once said that when horrors of life outweigh the horrors of death human beings commit suicide.``

The thought that the horrors of life are far worse than death can be induced subtly in most people. One man`s horror is another man`s opportunity. Potentially everyone is a suicide bomber. Even the folks who seem to have everything are prey to a certain hopelessness. Only a trigger is needed to heighten this sense of isolation and oppression and helplessness.

Politicians, gurus, priests are well versed in applying the triggers to a fertile field that will always exist.

GT #42, {``Remember Jesus Christ, HE WANTED TO DIE to save others. HE DIED FOR A CAUSE.``}

GT LOL - now I have heard it all - a Jewish suicide nailer. :)

malik99 #37 {``Of the 1500 Lebanese who died during the recent war, 1200 were civilians. Ironically, of the 160 Israelis who died in the same war, 120 were soldiers. By that standard, Hezbollah comes across as more of the old fashioned ethical soldier type of your definition than the uniformed and trained Israeli army.``}

Malik Sahib,
Touche - very good point. Sometimes, you have to look at the bottom line.

Swarrier #39 {``In most democratic armies soldiers are volunteers,...Even in battle a soldier in an army seeks to kill his opponents and stay alive, unless there is no other alternative.
A suicide bomber goes into action to commit suicide. There is no retreat or negotiation or alternative.``}

Swarrier Sahib,
As one Palestinian put it - ``Give us F16s, Apache choppers, and M1 tanks, and we will promise never to become suicide bombers again.``

A suicide bomber goes into action to comit suicide because he has reached his ``no retreat, no negotiation, and no alternative`` position a lot quicker than the well-armed, well-supplied, and well-supported professional or volunteer soldier.

Re: # 45 salim
[...With the Hezboola courage and Paki nuke, momins can finally kick some ass....]

Now you are talking... like a true momin... Like the saying goes in hindi: ``G@@nd mein dum nahin, hum kisi se kum nahin``... :)

Go ahead - you arabs and wannabe-arabs, hizbs and pakis - combine your forces and show us what you can do... so far - all we have heard is bluster...

Re: # 23, urstruly:

I return to another aspect of your very sensible statement.

``The underlying assumption in liberal democracy is that God is not good enough to solve social problems of people. ``
****Yes. Followers of all religions, other than Islam, do believe that the religious directives need to be interpretted differently in different times. You see one should not be frozen to a any fixed interpretation. The conception of God is just that. A conception. If that conception has led to a workable society then it needs to be adjusted as the vital parameters of a society change. The rigidity of Islamic philosophy augmented with its inherent intolerance has set Islam apart from acceptability in the eyes of all other people in the world.

For past hundred years Islamic rulers and their population have been the bootlickers of the powerful Western Countries. The lesson to be learnt by them _ Islamics - is that there is a third alternative to the two you mentioned and that is anarchic relationship to which the current Muslim countries are headed. It is desirable, nay, essential to make concerted effort to return to your alternative #1. It will be done by putting the Masjid away from governance and ridding it of the political and economic sharks.****

#39 by swarrier
“A suicide bomber goes into action to commit suicide. There is no retreat or negotiation or alternative.”

swarrier,

True but that definition can apply to regularly recruited and state paid soldiers too. The Japanese Air force pilot blew planes in allied ships committing hara-kiri, would be a situation to cite.

My issue is that the learned Doctor is making political statements and not giving us psychological analysis.

We may now have to refer this to Tom Cruise….

Suicide bombing is not an act in isolation. You need lots of political indoctrination to make people do what they ordinarily wont do.
Then the next question is why we should condemn suicide bombers in Iraq when that country is clearly under occupation. In that situation, an occupied population can use any tactics to remove the occupier from their country.

Mohar 11, {``Go ahead - you arabs and wannabe-arabs, hizbs and pakis - combine your forces and show us what you can do... so far - all we have heard is bluster...``}

Mohar Bhayya,
What happened to the deal we made?
If a little bit of sarcasm can get you that scared, I don`t know whose gaaNd is the deficient one. :)

Re: # 40

mohar:

``why are pakis trying to be more arab than arabs themselves?... why are pakis blowing themselves up for the arab ``cause``?... do arabs ever care about a paki ``cause``?...``

mo was a very shrewd bania........

72 palaces with 72 beds and 72 virgins is a very hard bargian to beat!

Glad to see that momins (with the exception of few murtids) unanimously support suicide bombers. So all those polls and news arjun was posting is afterall true.

Re: # 45

salim bay:

``With the Hezboola courage and Paki nuke, momins can finally kick some ass. ``

are you saying that pakis don`t have courage???

Khasi Kaka,

I think the power supply is back in Karachi.

Nice to C U here. Go get goin` Khasi Kaka.

Re: # 53

> If a little bit of sarcasm can get you that scared,

Salim,
the sarcasm (if indeed it was), was extremely well concealed.

Re: # 56
[....are you saying that pakis don`t have courage???...]

No, they don`t... if they did - they would have remained khasis - they would have fought back against the bedouin hordes and remained the progeny of grandpa gopinath...

They never had courage....at first hint of trouble they rolled over and played dead... and that continues till date as evidenced by that one phone call which made them rollover, yet again...

Urstruly sahib,

Yes, you are right. It is ultimately a choice between constitutions. How are you planning to get your non-secular constitution accepted in the US Congress? Through democracy? If so, then why not genuinely allow secular constitutions to democratically challenge non-secular constitutions in muslim countries?

Another crash course for the Psychilist.........
``or just because I know english, how can I be a Dubba-peer?``
It is this mindset of the washerman`s pooch that the Muslim-Umah is up against.

How much brains does it take just to ask those who resort to SSB.

Urstruly: You made an excellent point:`` If you give them missiles, they will not become missiles themselves``...and let me add `` If the US thuggs stop supplying autographed weapons to Usrael, the thUggs will not be in a position to earn ``human-wrongs`` points of distributing food to the bombed ones.

``Auooz-O-Billah-i mina-SATAN-ul-Bush-REGIME
Bismillah ar-RahmaaN al-RaheeM
O Allah deliver your wrath upon the ZalimeeN
Aameen



Unlike any other films ever produced on the conflict

---

`Occupation` explains the situation in a comprehensive manner and gives audiences a complete ...

Re: # 49
[A suicide bomber goes into action to comit suicide because he has reached his ``no retreat, no negotiation, and no alternative`` position a lot quicker than the well-armed, well-supplied, and well-supported professional or volunteer soldier.]

Yes we all know that. Why is he conditioned to think there is no other alternative? That is what has to be discussed. We all assume we know why they do it.

Re: # 52

HP
Kami-kaze pilots were not any different from suicide bombers. The only distinction is that they attacked armed ships but I am sure that they would have attacked unarmed merchant ships too.
Now how many suicide bombers have attacked military strongholds. How many successful bombings have been there compared to civilians? Civilians are soft targets.
That was the basis of my second post. Why does the political indoctrination succeed in making peple blow themselves up? Do they not see any other alternative?

I think the defeatist attitude comes with disillusionment against both sides. You percieve that your own side is incapable or corrupt enough to prevent anything from happening, and obviously you know (or think you know) that your opponents will want the worst for you.


Another interesting question. In most of Muslim world the governments have been anti-people. Will we witness a growth in suicide bombing as in Iraq, that will pit countrymen against each other? Will the suicide bomber be the only way that a government can be overthrown?

What is the stand of the average preacher in the Muslim world on suicide bombing? If you took religion out of it would it still continue. I think in the Palestine/Israeli conflict it would, but in other cases ???

I`m leaving out the Sri Lankan issues here for the moment. But that is another one akin to the Palestine/Israeli conflict. It is not motivated by religion.

here we go again...pakis rationalizing terrorism..

Why should non-muslims care about the root causes of islamic terrorism? Do we care about the root causes of pedophilia? no..islamic terrorism should be given the same treatment..there should be an islamic jihadi registry for each state like the sexual offender registry...

with all the obfuscations and justifications here about suicide bombers, i find it interesting that one would want to compare Jesus as a martyr to that of a suicide bomber. not only interesting, but highly imaginative.

and it is one thing to die to save one from their sins (for those of us who actually believe that). who exactly are the suicide bombers of trains and planes saving? well? yes, martyrdom and self-sacrifice are from time immemorial, but i think one could think of even more inventive and imaginative justifications than comparing christ`s ``martyrdom`` to that of a suicide bomber.

as to whether jesus WANTED to die, jesus knew he was going to die and he accepted it as the will of his father, i.e, for us christians, God. i refuse to believe that these suicide bombers are acting according to the will of God, no matter what their leaders and defenders say.

Re: # 65

ana,

If I have hurt your sensibility then I am sorry. You also say that:

``i refuse to believe that these suicide bombers are acting according to the will of God``

While you refuse to believe so, my point is that the suicide bombers may strongly believe that he is acting according to the will of God. I have no comments on these beliefs. Neither do I have the capability to justify the various deeds. I do have some half baked ideas though, and I have put them in #28.

Re #62

swarrier,

Nice to see you after a long time. You ask:

``Why is he conditioned to think there is no other alternative?``

It seems to me that you are assuming that the guy has no other choice but this. I disagree. The guy actually chooses to die and he chooses from a host of other feasible alternatives. These other alternatives may be the same as that from which you make everyday choices. We do know of rich and educated kids blowing themselves up. The guy`s choice is imbedded in a romantic notion of an alternate world - call it utopia if you may. He sees himself as making the supreme sacrifice to usher in this utopia. I know that we may not understand such behavior given our grounding in materialist thought. But non-material thought processes imbedded in hinduism, early christianity, sufism etc. always had an important part reserved for `sacrifice` (recall Abraham`s sacrifice for example). Last, I do emphasize that I believe the suicide bomber is convinced that he is doing GOOD. It is another matter that we may not agree.

dullabhatti #55 ``So all those polls and news arjun was posting is afterall true.``

It would seem like it, from the behavior of this group of blind arab worshippers on chowk. But as they say, the fool ultimately does the same thing the wise man does - but only much later and after much cost. So that is the good news and the bad news.

further to #67 also, this group does not represent all Pakistanis. There is no shortage of Pakistanis who are concerned about our own problems. So, while some of what arjun has been writing is true, it is by no means the whole truth. And, like I say below, in time they will realize their stupidity - like the Khilafat movement types did three generations ago. Never forget that.

i don`t think this article does a good job or analyzing the complex subject that it is attempting to analyse. it seems more superficial than analytical, for the following reasons:

- the author has not looked at suicide bombing as a phenomenon, over history
- the author is mixing suicide bombing with terrorism, without treating them separately
- the author is equating suicide bombing with religion or religion related phenomenon

a better analysis of suicide bombing with prove the above to be false. prior to the iraq war, by far the greatest number of suicide bombers in the world were in sri lanka. according to bbc, the number of suicide bombing carried out by the tamil tigers were many times the suicide bombings of all other groups combined. they didn`t get much press because of the country and area they were operating in. had they been carried out in new york, my guess is they would have gotten far more publicity than in colombo. most, if not all of them are hindu. hence religion, in the context the author is describing it could not have been their motivation.............

the largest number of suicide bombers of the past century were actually buddhist. the japanese kamikaze pilots far outnumber the suicide squad anyone has ever been able to put up. according to the following website http://www.u-s-history.com/pages/h1740.html there were three times as many applicants as there were planes!

as for the nature and background of these suicide bombers, it states:

``Generally, Kamikaze pilots were university students motivated by obligation, and loyalty to family and country. A typical pilot was a science student in his twenties. He prepared for his fiery destiny by writing farewell letters and poems to loved ones, receiving a ``thousand-stitch sash*,`` and by holding a ceremony — a drink of water that gave him a ``spiritual lifting`` before wedging himself between 550-pound bombs.``

what would be the psychology of these individauls? certainly different than the author`s analysis.

there seems to be one factor that is common in all suicide bombers, be they jihadists, tamil tigers or kamikazes, and that obviously isn`t religion or lack of education etc. it seems to be that they are weaker party. the far weaker party. they seem to have calculated that they can only fight a war or battle if they risk themselves............this is where the analysis should start......

the second part of the analysis should look at terrorism, independent of suicide`ism.` it should be debated whether it is better to carry out terrorism without killing on`e self or is it worse. is a person who plants a bomb in a neighborhood and escapes better than a person who walks in wearing the bomb. is a person who drops the bomb from the sky from an f-16 killing innocents better or worse than a person who flies the plane into the neighborhood?

We often think of education as a solution to the problem. Many people do not think so. The West dealt with the problem of Jehad earlier also. Faisal Devji in his book ``Landscapes of the Jihad`` tells us that W.W.Hunter wrote a book in 1871 called ``The Indian Musulmans: Are they bound to rebel against the queen``. It was a prescribed reading for the imperial services. Amongst others it dealt with Sayyid Ahmad Barelvi`s organization in Afghanistan. The writer suggested western education as an antidote to Barrelvi`s jehad.

I think that people like Sayyid Ahmed Khan and Jinnah were indeed the products of such an education. But they were more capable of explaining India (and the Musulman) to the Brits than they were able to explain western thoughts to the unwashed masses of India. Even after 100 years, I do not think western education has done much to change the mindset of people in the sub-continent. I do not know much about the Arab world.

Like we all are carried over by the preponderance of Muslim suicide bombers, the author also focussed only on this angle. It`s normal, though Dr.Sohail did justice to this subject.

The LTTEs does this. The would-be SBr would have th honour of having his/her last meal with Prabhakaran, who himself sent his son abroad for studies (http://www.sinhale.com/other_tamil_parents_cry_for_thei.htm).

Same is the case that OBL or Masood Azhar or Hefeez Syed. They dont send their sons/nephews for SB missions. These guys are hypocrites.

The LTTE guys are drawn into this by the altruistic goal and were inspired by the charisma of their leader, whereas the Muslim guys do this for a cause in Palestine, say against the might of Israel as a desparate action.

Why on earth there are SBs in Pakistan (this year there are 2 in Pakistan so far)? Can somebody throw light on this?

#67 by tahmed32 on August 22, 2006 6:05pm PT

”dullabhatti #55 ``So all those polls and news arjun was posting is afterall true.``
It would seem like it, from the behavior of this group of blind arab worshippers on chowk.”

TAhmed,

This is an unfortunate comment and I am embarrassed for you. First, this Bhutti guy maybe a nice person but I have yet to see an intelligent comment from him in the last three years and any one with a little sense would have just ignored this idiotic comment but you chose to endorse the idiocy to prove what?

Read this article again it is asking people to discuss suicide bombing from a specific angle and it is absolutely important that people discuss the issue with all the honesty. Contrary to your simplistic comments of this being an Arab issue, suicide bombing is not an Arab issue any more. We have suicide bombers in Pakistan, India, and Indonesia and perhaps some other places besides Europe and the US. This is an issue that is in our society and it is important that we discuss it from all perspectives and listen to people’s concerns and views from all walks of our society.

I hope that you will contribute something to the debate instead of attacking people that are expressing their views. Pakistani society and people of Pakistani origins have to come forward and discuss this phenomenon that ails our society and if a person of your knowledge and intelligence chooses to listen to idiots like Bhatti or khasi_m and their ilk than I am afraid, I can only say that you are running away from the reality and acting like an ostrich.

#68 by tahmed32

TAhmed,

“like the Khilafat movement types did three generations ago. Never forget that.”

You may dispute the objectives of the khilafat movement but it set the stage for a robust independence movement in India. In politics everything has some impact and that impact can bring contrary results. Since this is off topic, we will discuss it some other time but comments like this don’t add anything to you argument.

#63 by swarrier

“Kami-kaze pilots were not any different from suicide bombers.”

Thanks for posting the right term I just could not remember kamikaze at that time:)

You see when we discuss these issue we tend to draw from history and find incidents or similar actions fromthe past. That is a good technique but frankly anecdotal evidence can go as far. We live in a different era. There was time in the late sixties and early seventies in Vietnam when Buddhists were immolating to protest injustice. Around the same time we had other groups that were fighting in the jungles of South America. The non state actors throughout the history have found different ways to fight things they considered unjust. we have examples from our own society when some naïve or simple freedom fighters were taking law into their own hands and attacking civilians. In today’s terminology they would qualify as terrorists and perhaps suicide bombers too.

Do you know what Alipure Bomb case was or do you have any idea what was Hardinge Bomb case was all about. What about Ras Bihari Bose or Master Amir Chand, Bhai Balmukand, Master Awadh Behari, Basant Kumar Biswas, Ganeshilal Khasta, Vishnu Ganesh Pingley, Charan Das, Balraj, Lachhmi Narain Sharma and Lala Hanwant Sahey.

They were all terrorists. But would you believe that?
Were they representing the defeatist attitude?

So we need to be flexible when we study this whole saga. Could it be that the next generation of Arabs or Muslims would consider bombers heroes as they do now or would just reject them as crazies? Is it a new wave of fighting battles with the superior enemy like the waves I cited above?

Human mind develops new strategies all the time. Some are a result of extremely well educated minds who think through the whole issue and the others are born out of immediate environments. History teaches us that most of the guerilla movements grew out of the local environment. No matter how much the state authorities hated them; they were romanticized in their own particular deprived or the oppressed societies.

Some in the end just turned out to be as corrupt as the colonial rulers they were fighting against but a majority of them gave up lives for causes that were dear to them.

Would stereotyping allow us to get to the bottom of this issue?

Re:HP#74

[...Could it be that the next generation of Arabs or Muslims would consider bombers heroes as they do now or would just reject them as crazies? Is it a new wave of fighting battles with the superior enemy like the waves I cited above?......]

Leaving morality aside, at a sheer practical level, suicide bombings are completely ineffective and counterproductive to their cause. The Japanese Kamikaze pilots accomplished nothing, except getting Japan nuked since the USA decided it was too costly to continue regular combat. The Sri Lankan Tamil suicide bombers have delivered nothing either. Whatever support they had in India has disappeared a long time back and the rest of the world has washed its hands off from the Tamil cause. As Lankan Tamils languish in the dirt, their Tamil cousins in India are now the toast of the world with their IT prowess.

The Palestinian suicide bombers have again accomplished nothing for the Palestinian cause. Israel just built a wall to keep them out and de facto annexed Palestinian territory in West Bank, reducing Palestinians to a permanent status of prisoners in small bantulands there. Suicide bombers in Iraq are now killing fellow muslims - Shias - in record numbers every day. They may have stalled the US plan for democracy and even get the US out of Iraq. However, Iraq as a country is finished as it will just partition into permanently fighting sectrian sectors.

The mose useless suicide bombers are the Al-Qaeda and OBL`s gang. They have given muslims such a bad name that people all over the world are treating muslims with revulsion as if they are lepers. The good name of Islam accumulated over centuries has been ruined. The vast majority of peaceful muslims are paying through their nose for this situation by facing daily hardship, indignities and economic loss.

Suicide bombers with their morbid ideology and innocent casualties turn off people from their cause and people lose sympathy for whatever was the root cause. The way to fight oppresion or an ideological war is to come up with a positive counter agenda and maintaining a moral higher ground, as shown by Gandhi. By the way, the Indians you listed were terrorists and delivered nothing to the freedom struggle as compared to Gandhi, who not only got India liberated but also set the stage for South Africa`s liberation and Martin Luther King`s civil rights struggle in USA.

Re:Salim_Chauhan #45
[...With the Hezboola courage and Paki nuke, momins can finally kick some ass....]

Salim bhai, what has happened to you? When did you become a flaming jehadi? You were once the Quaid-e-Azam on chowk :-) fighting for Indo-Pak reunification.

Now we have to rename you as Salim Jinnah, for the sudden political U-turn :-).

HP brought out a valid comparison betwen a state-paid soldier and a volunteer suicider. In my opinion, the difference is only in the extent of willingness to be killed. The soldier is aware of the possibility to be killed himself in trying to kill the enemy but knows the chances of that happening are perhaps 50%, but this risk is acceptable to him which is why he joined the army. The suicider on the other hand is aware of the possibility to be killed himself in trying to kill the enemy but knows the chances of that happening are 100%.

In that manner, the difference between both is only that of degree. Both are soldiers and both are suiciders. Just that one is a 50% soldier/suicider and the other is a 100% soldier/suicider. That degree is further variable as, say, in case of special operations troops behind enemy lines in which case it would be perhaps 75%, or a reconnaissance pilot in which case it may be just 5% or less.

When Bhagat Singh, after the assembly bombing, decided to use the court as a tool to publicize his cause by admitting to the murder of J. P. Saunders and made anti-British statements, what did he think his chances of avoiding a death penalty were? Was he a suicider or not?

What determines the willingness to extent is the commitment to what ever cause the soldier/suicider is fighting for. It doesn`t matter if he is in uniform or civvies, paid or unpaid, man or woman, Muslim or any other religion etc. Thus, the suicider `phenomenon` is neither new nor is it a big deal.

I agree with HP that the author does not understand the phenomenon of suiciders at all....psychological or political....

#62 by swarrier

Good to have you back. It is nice to get a sensible discussion out of someone from across the border, which has lately been a rarity.

You said ``Now how many suicide bombers have attacked military strongholds. How many successful bombings have been there compared to civilians?

There have been numerous suicide bombings against military targets, including the famous tank battle at Chawinda where regular Pak army soldiers metamorphasised into suicide bombers. The most successful was the bombing of the US marine HQ in Beirut in 1983 by Hazballah which forced US to leave Lebanon.

Then there were the Yeman naval vessel attack and the 1996 US Army barracks in the Khobar Towers, Dhahran. As for the Intifada bombings, the attacks on military targets, check-points etc plus off-duty soldiers hangouts far outnumber the attacks on purely civilian targets. Various embassy attacks can also be counted in this category because everyone knows embassies are litlle more than intelligence outposts.

I think we are not aghast at some one trying to kill innocent civilians before commiting suicide.........it has been happening for various reasons ranging from personal frustrations or personal vengence.

The issue is not the act of this suicide bombing but the reasons for it which are now getting absolutely ``de-personalized``. It means that you need not be a victim to perform this suicidal act but ONLY need to identify with the victims anywhere in the world to act as suicide bomber with a `justification`. This extreme act of frustration which was seen more as an aberration from loony individuals is now getting RELIGIOUS legitimacy and is getting approved by the mullahs as the best act of religiousity.
We all get aghast at frustrated school boy and juveniles killing innocent class fellows out of a feeling of angst borne out of personal humiliation.............but no sane society approves of this act as a legitimate method of redressing any personal grievance, nor does the it praise the individual who does that.
The civilized world is aghast not at this act but the fact that we see suicidal activity getting approved by the religious people and the mullahs. Even worse, it is getting support from lunatics who call themselves purest of all the faithfuls amongst the ``educated`` lot of Pakistanis..........lahol............I think we need to reserve Antartica for these suicide mongers and open more mental asylums in that cold land.......

Perhaps after this we can enjoy our evenings in the bar peacefully without worrying about these lunatics in our neighbourhood.........all that would be a worthwhile the efforts........

People compare those who fought for political freedom with those who fight for heavens in the other world..............

this is nonsense...............one has a concrete secular objective regarding sharing of temporal power and sharing of control over natural resources between groups.................................................the other implies establishing un realistic objectives like ``Nizam-e-mustafa` enshrined in theological principles like heaven and other non-temporal and metaphysical objectives..................

How can you even negotiate with a suicide bomber who kills for attaining heavens and establishing brownie point for the superiority of mullahism over every other institution established by the western civilization??

Sohail

( Those ‘suicide bombers’ want all of us to think seriously about the unresolved political conflicts of the contemporary world. It is quite possible that if those issues are not addressed by United Nations and international community in a fair and just way, the conflict between the East and the West, Muslim and non-Muslim worlds will continue)

Ok. That is fine. But why has Pakistan taken the responsibility of supplying suicide bombers at the international level at regular intervals?

There is no Iranean, Saudi, Sudani, even Afghani - all stated to be hardcore Islamic societies? And mostly, Punjabis - What were the Punjabis doing in the last 2000 years when so many from the West came, mauled and ruled them?

one cause - demise of culture and vaccume filled by religion!

Or perhaps the western raiders were bigger nuts than them!

nhk

Re: # 82
Nazar, you bring out an excellent point. You will notice that all these jokers here glorifying the suicide bombers, none of them is a Punjabi. Punjabi, an agrarian society has mainly never be of a fanatical kind, but thank to these mofos from Deobandi choots, that they have corrupted us thoroughly. These bastards Fazlu and co, and the dick sucker Moudoodi imports from Deobandia are the real culps, leave Punjabis out of this. I am a Punjabi, and people in my village could give a shyt about these Chootias.

Yaar, you are wrong on one account, there were 19 Saudi suicide bombers on 9/11. and these jokers will do anything to get 72 virgin camels.

disappointer! as a psychiatrist you could have gone deeper, no? we all know suicide bombers are resentful and so on. more than the suicide bombings in say palestine or iraq, id like to hear about what causes it in pakistan or india. the psychology of people living in a a state of war is very different from someone trying to commit such acts in a relatively stable state (not getting into the details of political stability in India and Pakistan). any thoughts?

CONFIDENCE BUILDING MEASURES WITH AN ENEMY

This is the best piece of journalism I have ever come across. It deserves to be framed and inducted into the world Journalism Hall of Fame.