Postmortem of Israeli-Hezbollah War – What Next?

Dear Zeemax:

It appears from your posts that you respond primarily based on your religiosity and your religious values. And there is nothing wrong with that.

However, you must first have to identify whether you are a man with a belief or a man with an intellect. Only one of these devices is considered valid to be used at one time. A person who is a believer will never be able to use the resources of his intellect.

I hope that this helps you to become more authentic. If you chose to identify yourself as a man of firm belief then, of course, those of us who have chosen intellect as our source of values can never interact amicably with your kind self.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 110 by kamath on August 27, 2006 8:51am PT

Dear kamath:

Sure I have an opinion or two about what paindoos in Islamabad are all about. The Pakistani bureaucratic structure has always been to subjugate the civilians. The politicians are just as ignorant and tow the line of his masters voice. Some say it is Amreeka, and some say it is the majority Punjabis. Heck, Punjab has taken over Baluchistan as their own. These shenanigans were lesser known to me when I was growing up in Karachi. Now that I have studied a lot about why Pakistan is so screwed up, I have concluded that it might be the damn bureaucratic paindoos of Islamabad. They have created hatred between the Pathaans and the Punjabis, between the Baluchis and the Punjabis, between the Sindhis and the Punjabis.

Unlike any other enlightened society of the world, being a minority is a curse in Pakistan , and not just in the religious sense of the word. Humanity has been taken hostage by the ruling elite and also the servants of the people of Pakistan. Everywhere one turns the state has a problem in dealing with issue, whether it is the Durant Line with the Afghans, or the mineral rights of Baluchistan, or the water issue with Sindhi waderas, or the equal employment issue for the Bhayas.

{I bet Indian RAW is behind all this troubles dont`t you think? Would you care to explain? }

Of course there is always the destructive forces at play and that is all the more reason the ruling elite should remain servants of the society and not the masters. Unfortunately, for Pakistan the rulers have always been the most unscrupulous of the lot. Maybe the citizens of Pakistan should start an award program of who were the worst abusers of Pakistan in descending order.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 108 by hamidm2 on August 27, 2006 7:45am PT

Dear Hamid:

{.......... i simply don`t understand why you people are so hung up on....pigs...... arn`t they god`s creation too ? }

The problem with pigs is that each sow requires 500CFM of fresh air, and their litter is about 8 every 133 days or so, and they sleep over 20 hours delivery of their babies.

{... but what has a poor pig ever done to you?... the poor guy is one oink away from becoming bacon ? ............ }

It appears that both jews and muslims can not compete with the pigs in producing babies.

{............. as for the jews, i guess it goes back to the days of your prophet who wanted to exterminate them, but don`t you think it is time to let up now that they have been driven out of arabia and karachi ?.............. }

Yep, even the Jewish household that I spent my early days of life had to leave the city of Karachi where people are use to peeing on the streets.

{as far as the hindoos are concerned, i can empathize with you - there are days when their head wagging makes me dizzy and the smell of heeng makes me sick ...........}

Same here, and for some reason these creatures love railroad tracks.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 112 by Urstruly on August 27, 2006 10:14am PT

Dear Urstruly:

{As Muslims it is our divine responsibility to convey the word of Allah to the rest of the world and to our comming generations, without corruption, addition, or ommission. }

I agree wholeheartedly what muslims should be doing, but they don`t.

{Quadiani religion is an anathema to the religion of Islam as long as adherents of Quadianism pretend to be Muslims. My friendly advise to Quadianis is that they shouldn`t be ashamed of calling themselves Quadianis, which they actually are; it doesn`t matter if they belong to Lahori group but they are not Muslims, since they do not follow the religion of Mohammad (pbuh). }

You are correct so far as Quadiani should stop calling themselves Muslims. Just like the Bahais, of Iran, they are perplexed in what to do? If they go about converting Muslims to Quadianism then Muslims would revert to the ``murtad law of Islam`` by killing of the converts. Would they not? The difficulty is how do you get out of Islam without being killed?

Any suggestion would help.

Respectfully submitted,

Zeemax,

For the last ``three years`` he has been writng that in ``six months`` situation in Iraq will turn favorable to the US position...

#121 by HP

I hope you know the Tom Friedman six months joke...

Nope. What is it?

Zeemax

From your post #13
``this would be action that would have to be taken within months. If not, and if Iran continues enrichment, it will complete the research and development stage and have a proven ability which it can then duplicate at numerous sites. And at that point it could not be stopped by military action. Six months or 12 months from now would be too late, he said.``

They are down to one reason and that too is not looking promising. Remember that this six to 12 months timeframe is now almost three years old but they will continue with the six to 12 months rule..Like our Friend Tom ``six months`` Friedman. I hope you know the Tom Friedman six months joke...

Re: # 117

Krishna,

Let me tell you about Swapan Dasgupta. He extolls Daily Telegraph (a newspaper dedicated to white supremcy in England) and disagrees with Guardian or the Times. It was the latter that gives hims voice and support when he`s hated and attacked in this country for the colour of his skin. He likes to quote that paper for his mind massage.

During 50th anniversary of 15th Aug, the singers who sang Vande Mataramin Delhi and India Gate were Muslims. I agree that Vande Maratam (ML called it Bande Matarm) that VM was an issue before 1947. There were some dickheads left in India or took birth that believed in Pakistan whilst living in India. It was that flock that is speaking not the entire lot of Indian Muslims.

I know of some drama actors who play Lava Kusa (the story of Lord Ram) who sing songs in praise of Ram and other Hindu devotional songs. Pl also remember Altaf Raja (Bombay sang songs for Navaratri & Saibaba).

Congress as usual flinched. I am not surprised. Instead of stoking fires like BJP OR flinching like Congress, these parties should do some explaining/educating to the people or adopt Jana Gana Mana as the National Anthem.


Wide-burshing the whole community is wrong.

#118 by HP

Okay, so what next? Because it doesn`t appear Iran is going to be attacked unilaterally anytime soon unless a reason is manufactured. What could be that reason?

Do you agree that Iran interfering in Iraq would ultimately be the key after US leaves?

#115
Zeemax,

There is gap between what the US desires to do and what it can do. The US lost its ability to build a diplomatic consensus against Iran because the US lied and then persisted with the lies in Iraq. Countries need to find some excuse for the war but the excuses that the US manufactured in Iraq were too far fetched and since then the US is moving from one excuse to the other.

Now Iran can safely play the victim card. The role of victim is very convenient because it frees the self-declared victim from any responsibility, while providing a posture of moral superiority.

Despite the US effort, poking and prodding, Israel was unable to expand the war in Lebanon and that makes it even more difficult for the US to attack Iran. Even if it does at some point, I think the US would be under such an enormous pressure that it will not be able to sustain the assault for achieving its ultimate goals.

``victory has many fathers; defeat is an orphan`` --Count Ciano, Mussolini`s son-in-law in 1945

Both the US and Israel failed in their respective missions in Iraq and Lebanon and now they are diplomatic orphans.

The West is being forced to acknowledge what we Hindus have been saying and suffering from for ages:

Here`s an artcile about the ummah - populating the fifth column in EVERY non-muslim country:

Fanatics sing an anti-national song

Swapan Dasgupta


A determined band of fanatics committed to unrelenting jihad against all ``non-believers`` have landed Muslims in a soup. A YouGov survey published in Friday`s Daily Telegraph revealed that 53 per cent of Britons believe ``Islam posed a threat to Western liberal democracy``. In the immediate aftermath of 9/11 less than a third of the United Kingdom held such views. What began as a ``war on terror`` in the West is fast escalating into the much-feared ``clash of civilisations.``

Coming on the heels of another survey which suggested that nearly one-third of British Muslims are in sympathy with those President Bush called ``Islamic fascists``, it is not surprising that the West is gripped by a dread of Islam - a fear which explains the disproportionate reaction to 12 exuberant Mumbai Muslims on the flight from Amsterdam. ``We simply do not know``, admitted writer William Shawcross in the Wall Street Journal, ``how to deal with the fact that we are threatened by a vast fifth column...``

It would be sheer escapism to insist these fears are missing from India. The Hindu-CNN-IBN State of the Nation Survey conducted after the Mumbai blasts showed that a whopping 35 per cent of Indians believe that terrorism is supported by Indian Muslims. A few more terrorist incidents and the perception may end up becoming common sense.

Amid this growing polarisation, it was heartening that a Ulema-convened conference on terrorism adopted a resolution condemning ``all forms of terror`` and describing terrorism as ``completely un-Islamic``. Regardless of the conference being too much of a sarkari show, the declaration was a positive move.

Yet one step forward was accompanied by two steps backward. On the sidelines of the conference, SQR Ilyas, spokesman of the All India Muslim Personal Board, announced that Muslims will not sing the country`s national song Vande Mataram. ``We love the country but don`t worship (it)``, announced Ilyas, ``The song talks about worshipping, as in idol worship, which is against the fundamental ethos of Islam. It is a very sensitive issue for Muslims, so they can`t be asked to do this for even a single day.``

Sectarian objections to Vande Mataram were a key component of the Muslim League`s separatist agenda prior to 1947. Yet, since the first two stanzas of the song was adopted as the national song in 1950 and put on par with the national anthem, the controversy was deemed to have been settled. By putting its authority behind an organised boycott of the most potent symbol of the freedom struggle, the AIMPLB has wilfully sought to pit Muslims versus India. The move is not only deeply offensive but an assault on the Constitution. It is tantamount to burning the national flag.

A weak UPA Government has declared that singing Vande Mataram is not compulsory. The issue is not the exercise of individual vocal cords; it is respecting and acknowledging Vande Mataram. By declaring a symbol of nationhood to be optional, the Government has opened the floodgates of emotional separatism. In its deposition before the Unlawful Activities tribunal, SIMI has stated that it is not obliged to sing the national anthem. Will the Government acquiesce to this outrageous assertion on the grounds of pluralism? Where will this assault on Indian nationhood stop?

Many Muslims have reacted sharply to the AIMPLB diktat. They recognise the enormous problems this decision will create for ordinary Muslims who are neither terrorists nor anti-India. They understand the grave implications of narrow-minded dogmatism on communal harmony. They must be encouraged to speak up, defy the bigots and speak up for India.

The appeal of Vande Mataram is inspirational, as AR Rehman demonstrated some years ago. September 7 will mark the 101st anniversary of Vande Mataram being anointed the national song. It should be observed this year and all years to come as Vande Mataram Day, a day when the soul of a nation long suppressed found expression. Let Vande Mataram symbolise both our commitment to India and our defiance of those who want to destroy it.

HP,

Back to the subject.

What do you think about my post # 13, particularly option 3 mentioned therein, in the light of your contention of the inevitability of military action against Iran?

#114 by HP

I don’t believe that Islam or for that matter any other religion is of any importance in the larger scheme of things.

That is a very strong statement. How about an article on that? I would have thought that Islam being the only political religion does have a part to play in the larger sheme of things.

It would be great if you could write something on the subject.

#111 by zeemax

“this community deliberately and completely misrepresents Islam on the internet,”

There are differences in every sect of Islam. Why Qadianis should be singled out for special treatment. I think the religion debate belongs on some other place and not on this board.

You need to have a broader perspective. I don’t believe that Islam or for that matter any other religion is of any importance in the larger scheme of things. I am not sure I would even qualify for being a Muslim based on the fact that I don’t agree with any religion and just consider them something to tolerate like many other things that we tolerate in everyday life.

....contd#111....

It may well be that the similarity between al-islam.org, which is a genuine islamic portal, and alislam.org is by sheer chance. But I wouldn`t be surprised if it was deliberate.

What`s a hyphen between friends?

Re: # 111

It is necessary to identify the Muslim pretenders. As Muslims it is our divine responsibility to convey the word of Allah to the rest of the world and to our comming generations, without corruption, addition, or ommission. Quadiani religion is an anathema to the religion of Islam as long as adherents of Quadianism pretend to be Muslims. My friendly advise to Quadianis is that they shouldn`t be ashamed of calling themselves Quadianis, which they actually are; it doesn`t matter if they belong to Lahori group but they are not Muslims, since they do not follow the religion of Mohammad (pbuh). Following rituals is not akin to following a religion, it is the very belief that makes one an adherent of a religion.