Postmortem of Israeli-Hezbollah War – What Next?

Since when did behram become the ``lord`` of this domain. The guy is a walking talking contradiction. He complains when HP tells him the obvious, yet he is extremely liberal in hitting others ``below the belt`` so to speak with contrived bs. He complains about the treatment of minorities in Pakistan, yet belongs to a minority group that is financially much more secure than the average Pakistani. He has no numbers similar to the ones that are available in the US to show the pathetic existence of minorities here with life expectency being 8 to 10 years less for African Americans and mortality at younger ages being much higher. Often he talks about how he derided the Muslims from that area that try to be friendly with him, yet he talks about the condition of minorities in Pakistan. This guy is a pathetic hypocrite. He calls for there being mutual exclusivity between intellect and belief, yet is oblivious to the fact that most intellectuals of days gone by had ``beliefs`` and what about the belief that says that using the the intellect is the surest way to the truth?

Sorry, couldn`t hold this back seeing how he is strutting around here parading as a paragon of tolerance and enlightenment.

Re: # 123

Tom Friedman was in his impressionable years at the time of the 1967 war & emerged a fanatic Zionist from it. His predicament provides a good argument of why the US needs to get over the Israel issue.

Just recognize the Palestinian`s right of return & compensate them for it. Do this while the window for doing so is still open. Otherwise, keep fanatacizing the Mideast.

I think that the situation between Pakistan & India offers hope as at least neither side has pending claims against the other`s _main_ territory. So the matter is nearly(!) resolved.

What say, Gentoos?

Re: # 85

Interesting- There`s some structure to things.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2005/03/050228_baloch_story_16_nj.shtml

[Sorry to keep you frothing, obnoxious gentoos.]

Re: # 133 by Salim_Chauhan on August 27, 2006 2:57pm PT

Salim Jaun:

{Why did you intentionally leave out Mohajirs from this all-Paki lovefest with Punjab?}

These days it appears that Bhayas, for the most part, are involved with the paindoos in Islamabad. Besides it is a well known fact that the Mafioso boss in London was a creation of General Zia-ul-Na-Huq.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 135 by krishna_abcd on August 27, 2006 3:25pm PT

Dear krishna_abcd:

My american born confused desi lord, you are correct.

Just now they have released the Fox news reporters who were forcefully converted to Islam. One guy`s name now is Khaled. If he converts back to whatever, is he a ``murtad``? Will his killing be ``wajib`` on the devout, and pious muslims? Killing a human being and piety?

What the heck is going on? Why are we using so many Arabic words?

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 136
according to brit newspaper they have bought mansions in london just in case.

Down on Billionaire`s Row...

... the smallest house costs £3m, and neighbours include property magnates and Russian oligarchs. But why do the super-rich flock to The Bishops Avenue, asks Conal Walsh


From Billy Butlin to Lakshmi Mittal, top tycoons have always called this place home. Arab princes throw wild parties in marble-pillared mansions here; up the road, Asil Nadir and Emil Savundra plotted multi-million-pound frauds; and a few doors away fashion boss Aristos Constantinou was shot to death.
As long as you`re rich enough, nobody really minds what you get up to here - although residents did start a petition to keep Boy George out.

Welcome to The Bishops Avenue in East Finchley - probably the richest little street in the world.

For decades, locals called it Millionaire`s Row. Inflation alone means Billionaire`s Row is a better description today. But high oil prices and a recent spate of building and redevelopment up and down the street mean only one thing: this tree-lined kilometre of north London is once again the undisputed destination of choice for some of the world`s largest - and most precarious - fortunes.

`The street is extraordinary, a phenomenon of modern times,` says Trevor Abrahamson, the area`s leading estate agent. `Among the wealthiest circles in the world, The Bishop`s Avenue is better known than Buckingham Palace. This country is known to be the place to go to protect yourself against uprisings or inflation. Every time there is political instability or a surge in energy or commodity prices, I have seen rich buyers fly to this street.`

During the first Gulf war, says Abrahamson, the Saudi royal family bought 10 of the street`s 66 mansions, presumably as a bolthole in case they were deposed. The Saudis still own the houses. In more recent years Russian and East European `oligarchs`, keen to expatriate their billion-dollar oil and metals fortunes, have been queuing up to buy.

Many bring with them bodyguards, bullet-proof limousines and state-of-the-art security systems . `Over 30 years I`ve dealt with every nationality of buyer,` says Abrahamson. `One gentleman from Russia never leaves The Bishops Avenue. He won`t even go around the corner.`

It generally costs £3m to buy a modest five-bedroom house here - though for a certain kind of `starter buyer` a few 1,800 sq ft flats might be available for a mere £1.5m, in a luxury apartment block currently being built.

For one of the grander mansions or villas that make this street famous, however, you`ll need at least £5m, and often a lot more. The palatial Toprak Mansion - 28,000 sq ft, owned by a Turkish industrialist and known as `Top Whack Mansion` among estate agents - is on the market for a breathtaking £50m.

Those living here can count some of the biggest names in business among their neighbours. Apart from steel tycoon Mittal (worth £14.9bn at the last count), there is property magnate Chris Lazari (£1bn), who lives a block away in the equally exclusive Winnington Road, as does Gerald Ronson (£280m). Richard Desmond (£1.9bn), press baron and owner of Express Newspapers, owns two properties on The Bishops Avenue; one, a sprawling Edwardian mansion, is being renovated by his wife Janet.

But why is living here so desirable? The houses are undeniably luxurious - all with landscaped gardens, swimming pools and spas, vast entrance lobbies and sweeping staircases - but East Finchley doesn`t have the social cachet of Chelsea and Belgravia, nor the grade II-listed charms of nearby Hampstead village. Traffic thunders down the street constantly; and with all the building work going on, Rolls-Royces vie for space with white vans.

We asked Desmond. `The building work there, funnily enough, doesn`t really affect you,` he replied. `As for neighbours - we are friendly with various neighbours and I`d rather live there than Belgravia: it`s more open and green. It`s near my son`s school and near my mum and Janet`s mum, and in the next road is my pal Gerald Ronson.

`It`s like living in the country and yet only 20 minutes from the West End and 20 minutes to the City. It`s also 30 minutes to Luton airport and 30 minutes to Heathrow.`

Curious for a glimpse into the private world of the very-rich, we approach a group of workmen in hard hats standing at Desmond`s gateway, and ask what it`s like working in such a famous tycoon`s house. `Who?` one replies with a shrug.

One capitalist`s gable extension, it would seem, is much the same as any other`s. But when told that their client owes much of his fortune to the success of adult magazines such as Asian Babes, they are impressed. `Fair enough,` says one. `Good lad.`

And that`s just the thing about wealth today - people respect it, wherever it comes from. In the latest `Rich List` of Britain`s 1,000 wealthiest people, 767 are self-made men and women, while `old money` - aristocratic and inherited wealth - is in retreat.

Not for today`s millionaires the exquisitely tasteful but old and cramped townhouses of Kensington and Chelsea. They would rather buy a three-acre plot on The Bishops Avenue - and if they don`t like the house that already stands there, they can always knock it down and build a new one to suit their own tastes. They`ve got the money to do it, and there are relatively few planning restrictions.

Hence the many expensive eyesores that line this street. Southfork-style ranches sit alongside overgrown Barratt houses and squat marble bunkers that resemble Soviet mausoleums.

Attempts at quaintness or authenticity - a Georgian facade here, a whitewashed Wordsworth cottage there - are generally betrayed by sheer monstrous size: most of these structures are as big as aircraft-hangers.

On the other hand, it`s difficult not to admire the sheer pluck of people who are unafraid to create their own idea of home, rather than borrow someone else`s.

Driving down The Bishops Avenue has long been a favourite sport for some of London`s middle classes, who enjoy sniggering at the vulgarity of the rich. They ought to be struck instead by the sheer lofty disdain with which today`s billionaires defy convention.

Abrahamson says that people move to The Bishops Avenue precisely because they want to proclaim their wealth and extravagance. `It`s a significant demonstration of their status. If you live there, you don`t need someone to explain to people that you`re rich.`

Re: # 128 by Urstruly on August 27, 2006 1:14pm PT

Dear Urstruly:

{There are 5 billion kafirs living in this world; Quadianis should prolysetize them instead of Muslims. It is less hazardous, isn`t it? }

Well, that is exactly what my Quadiani friend claims that their jamaat in London is claiming that they are doing. The problem with this statement is that when one sees a Quadiani, they are almost always a Punjabi. Now, in all seriousness, who would want to accept a Punjabi as their spiritual leader? eh! Spirituality is not what a haughty ethnicity like Punjabis can promote.

Besides, we already have Sikhs, a religion from the Land of Five Rivers.

{But the fact of the matter is that Quadianism and Islam are anathema to each other and they are absolutely mutually exculsive. One has to finish existing so that other could survive. Either there is confrontation or there is the Bihai way.}

Yes, and I totally agree with you. But to be accepting others in their new faith, the new faith usually proselytizes those from the old faith. In this case Quadianis must have most of its members from Sunni muslims. Just as Bahais were successful in promoting from the Shias of Iran.

Darn, and you failed to respond to the essence of my previous post. And that was if muslims do not kill those who exit their faith, it would be much more civilized for everyone. Would it not? Besides who sanctioned these ``Murtid`` killings? It was General Khalid Bin Walid who started the killings of those existing the muslim faith. Right? How does this General`s behavior becomes a Sunnat for the Sunnis to follow?

Please elaborate.

Respectfully submitted,

is bin laden right about the saudi royal family?

for the longest time i have thought saudis should be given some slack because:

i. their society has gone through a rapid transformation in a very short span of time

ii. USraeli media used to pile on saudis before the lebanon war

iii. saudi support for pak govt

this however is not on. this is taking place a time when fellow arab citizens have been subjected to violence on an unimaginable scale ramifications of which will be felt for a long time to come. this also explains why the likes of hasan nasrullah are the future os islamic world. also keep in mind that until 9/11, uncle sam was providing full protection to these people. note also that the concept of royalty is completely contrary to the fundamental spirit of islam. it should be easy to see why from this story:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2330176,00.html

Economy-class Saudi royals cramp Marbella’s style

THE Saudi Arabian royal family arrived for their annual visit to a palace in Marbella last week, bringing with them a new — and unwelcome — spirit of frugality.
King Abdullah, the new ruler, stayed away, but 14 princesses were among a party of 1,500 assorted royals and courtiers at the Palacio El Rocio, accompanying the late King Fahd’s widow Jawhara al-Ibrahim and Abdullah’s brother Prince Salman Bin Abdul Aziz.

...By most standards, however, the spending remains outlandish, with designers and jewellers on alert to satisfy the royals’ every whim.

On their first day at the resort, the princesses were reported to have spent £676,000 on a single diamond pendant. Their fruit bill was put at £2,000 a day and fresh orchids every day cost £1,000. A retinue of 300 local servants has been hired, ranging from chauffeurs and butlers to hairdressers and nannies.

...King Juan Carlos of Spain, a friend of Fahd, broke off from his family holiday in Majorca to visit al-Ibrahim, the fourth and reportedly the favourite of Fahd’s wives.

Fahd spent £75m on doing up the Palacio El Rocio, which is modelled on the White House. It has its own private clinic, mosque and sports complex.

#124 by behram1

[The difficulty is how do you get out of Islam without being killed?

Any suggestion would help.

Respectfully submitted]


Once you have respectfully submitted your rear-end to allah, no amount of respectful submitting is going to get your rear-end out of it.

There is no escape! muwahahahahahahaha....... :D

#120 by VRV

[Wide-burshing the whole community is wrong. ]

It sure is. But what Swapan Dasgupta is saying here is what he FEARS might happen, not what he thinks SHOULD happen.

The general public do not think like Supreme Court judges (just take a look at supposedly educated people like HP who think that the Mumbai blasts was a case of ``armed resistence``). So public perception might go in that direction (as it has in Britain) after a few more of these mass killings. There won`t be any Lalu to try and prove that the dead were really victims of their own device. If you noticed, Lalu didn`t try anything like his Godhra explanation in the case of the Mumbai blasts. The public mood is changing.

Behram #126 {``They have created hatred between the Pathaans and the Punjabis, between the Baluchis and the Punjabis, between the Sindhis and the Punjabis.``}

Behram Braader-e-man,
Why did you intentionally leave out Mohajirs from this all-Paki lovefest with Punjab? See what I mean about discrimination? We are constantly being excluded from important considerations in Pakistan. :(

Behram #126 {``They have created hatred between the Pathaans and the Punjabis, between the Baluchis and the Punjabis, between the Sindhis and the Punjabis.``}

Behram Braader-e-man,
Why did you intentionally leave out Mohajirs from this all-Paki lovefest with Punjab? See what I mean about discrimination? We are constantly being excluded from important considerations in Pakistan. :(

Re: # 126
Behram1:

God God man:
Why in the world do you always conclude your post by saying,`` respectfully submitted..``. It is so 19th century Babu Englees! Be a man of the 21 century man. Be bold and arrogant!

Respectfully submitted,

Kamath

Urstruly #112 {``Quadiani religion is an anathema to the religion of Islam as long as adherents of Quadianism pretend to be Muslims. My friendly advise to Quadianis is that they shouldn`t be ashamed of calling themselves Quadianis, which they actually are...``}

Brother Urstruly,
I have the same issue with Wahabbis. I will match your anti-Quadiani rhetoric and raise it with a vehemently anti-Wahabbi one. The Wahabbis have demonstrated themselves to be much more anti-Muslim than the gentle Ahmedis. Please be fair. I am neither an Ahmedi nor a Wahabbi, but I definitely prefer the former.

Re: # 128

urstruly,

``One has to finish existing so that other could survive``............... isn`t that what muslims say about the jews as well ?............. and what about the hindoos, parsis, pagans and animists ?.............. can islam peacefully coexist with ay other faith ?........... i don`t think so...... islam poses an existential threat to all other faiths - it all started with the jews of khyber and the pagans of mecca ............

............. may the better god win ! ......... we are in for a wild ride

Behram

There are 5 billion kafirs living in this world; Quadianis should prolysetize them instead of Muslims. It is less hazardous, isn`t it?

But the fact of the matter is that Quadianism and Islam are anathema to each other and they are absolutely mutually exculsive. One has to finish existing so that other could survive. Either there is confrontation or there is the Bihai way.