Postmortem of Israeli-Hezbollah War – What Next?

Re: # 110 by kamath on August 27, 2006 8:51am PT

Dear kamath:

Sure I have an opinion or two about what paindoos in Islamabad are all about. The Pakistani bureaucratic structure has always been to subjugate the civilians. The politicians are just as ignorant and tow the line of his masters voice. Some say it is Amreeka, and some say it is the majority Punjabis. Heck, Punjab has taken over Baluchistan as their own. These shenanigans were lesser known to me when I was growing up in Karachi. Now that I have studied a lot about why Pakistan is so screwed up, I have concluded that it might be the damn bureaucratic paindoos of Islamabad. They have created hatred between the Pathaans and the Punjabis, between the Baluchis and the Punjabis, between the Sindhis and the Punjabis.

Unlike any other enlightened society of the world, being a minority is a curse in Pakistan , and not just in the religious sense of the word. Humanity has been taken hostage by the ruling elite and also the servants of the people of Pakistan. Everywhere one turns the state has a problem in dealing with issue, whether it is the Durant Line with the Afghans, or the mineral rights of Baluchistan, or the water issue with Sindhi waderas, or the equal employment issue for the Bhayas.

{I bet Indian RAW is behind all this troubles dont`t you think? Would you care to explain? }

Of course there is always the destructive forces at play and that is all the more reason the ruling elite should remain servants of the society and not the masters. Unfortunately, for Pakistan the rulers have always been the most unscrupulous of the lot. Maybe the citizens of Pakistan should start an award program of who were the worst abusers of Pakistan in descending order.

Respectfully submitted,

Re: # 126
Behram1:

God God man:
Why in the world do you always conclude your post by saying,`` respectfully submitted..``. It is so 19th century Babu Englees! Be a man of the 21 century man. Be bold and arrogant!

Respectfully submitted,

Kamath

#90,

``After all, this man gave 80 years of his life for the betterment of Pakistan.``

Behram, you are a fine gentleman but you will really need to substantiate this.

He was not even loyal to Balochis and thats why in the last two years or so, he could not move the baloch public opinion in his favor.
Please don’t believe in what you see in papers...

``Your this particular reaction towards me is really unwarranted. ``

I apologize for that it was a low blow....

nasah/ behram (off-topic)

Akbar Bugti was a nationalist ONLY on his own terms i.e his undisputed claim on the kingdom of Dera Bugti / Sui alogwith his family`s sovereign rights over what ever lies beneath the ground in that area. He repeated that claim unambiguously and categorically in his (last) interview with Dr, Shahid Masood of ARY in the simple words ``The gas is ours``.

The state machinery had been in motion for his elimination for some time. First he was forced to flee into the mountains, then the sub-tribe he had banished to South Punjab was brought back and resettled, then a tribal Bugti Jirga was held last week declaring the end of his Sardari; and then he was eliminated along with two of his possible successors.

Being a seasoned doyen of Pakistani politics since independance, I would have rather he was captured and sent into exile, but he wasn`t the man to have ever surrendered.

He lived by the sword, and died by the sword. May his soul rest in peace.

Now, back to the subject.

Behram,
Please stop posting unrelated stuff. It is regrettable that he was killed in an army encounter. But the guy perhaps for all his life supported the army and in 1973 was responsible for Baloch killings too. Sorry that he met his fate from his former friends and benefactors....

Btw, Behram..You need to open a thread on UP if you are so interested in this case... Stop acting like khasi_m. we read papers too and know the reaction well.

Re: # 89 by HP on August 26, 2006 9:55pm PT

Dear HP:

I really do not know what unrelated means. I just saw what Pakistan did to her nationalist son. Granted, this board was started about issues in Lebanon. And since I noticed that most of the interactors who would care about Pakistan, are here, I chose to bring the conversation of the anticipated burning of Pakistan here.

Frankly, I am disappointed at Chowk Staff, not to have an obituary of sorts posted. After all, this man gave 80 years of his life for the betterment of Pakistan. Some of us may want to discuss about his contributions to Pakistan. Don`t you agree?

{Btw, Behram..You need to open a thread on UP if you are so interested in this case... Stop acting like khasi_m. we read papers too and know the reaction well.}

Your this particular reaction towards me is really unwarranted.

Respectfully submitted,

SHAME ON YOU PAKISTAN

FOR WHAT YOU DID TO YOUR NATIONALIST SON, NAWAB AKBAR KHAN BUGTI

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Curfew imposed in Quetta due to unprecedented violence
Updated at 0600 PST
QUETTA: Curfew has been imposed here in Balochistan capital for indefinite period of time due to unprecedented violence, which erupted after killing of Jamhori Watan Party (JWP) chief Nawab Akber Khan Bugti and his men.

The curfew was prompted by mob attacks on public property, patrol pumps, banks and firing on police, said CCPO Quetta Syed Muhammad while talking to Geo News.

Pakistan Army, Police and Law Enforcing Agencies have been deployed in the curfew, he said.

Protesters set tyres on fire and torched several vehicles in the city.

Some people were injured, however, no loss of life was reported.

Meanwhile, security was tightened across the country to avoid any untoward incident.

Security forces killed tribal chieftain and Jamhoori Watan Party leader Nawab Akbar Bugti in a major military operation in Balochistan.

At least 25 elite commandos and more than 30 tribal militants were also killed in the fighting near Dera Bugti town, close to a mountain hideout in the province where Bugti was sheltering, security officials said.

British-educated Akbar Bugti, who was in his 80s, fled his former stronghold earlier this year following a crackdown by the military.

He has been accused of operating private jails and running a feudal justice system in the area in addition to being blamed for the deaths of dozens of soldiers and policemen.

The clampdown on Bugti was sparked by a rocket attack during a visit by President Pervez Musharraf to Balochistan in December.

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Various parties call emergency meeting over Bugti’s killing
Updated at 0545 PST
ISLAMABAD: Alliance for Restoration of Democracy (ARD) and Muttahida Majlis-e-Amal (MMA) and Baloch Nationalist Parties have called emergency meeting over killing of Jamhori Watan Party (JWP) chief Nawab Akber Khan Bugti and his men.

ARD meeting will be held on Monday over killing of chief Nawab Akber Khan Bugti and his men as his party has been member party of ARD, said ARD chief Makhdoom Amin Fahim while talking to Geo News.

Makhdoom Amin Fahim was the first one to announce the deaths.

MMA meeting would be held today (Sunday) to reviews the situation created after killing of Nawab Akber Khan Bugti and his men said Professor Ghafoor of MMA.

The emergency meeting of four-party alliance of Baloch Nationalist parties has been called today (Sunday) over the killing Nawab Akber Khan Bugti.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 08 27 story_27-8-2006_pg7_4

Sunday, August 27, 2006

It’s a black day in Pakistan’s history: Nawaz

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: It is a black day in the history of Pakistan, and it shows that guns are solving matters, said former prime minister Mian Nawaz Sharif while commenting on Nawab Akbar Bugti’s death on Saturday.

Sharif told Geo News channel that “blood would continue to flow from this wound for a long time”. He said that Nawab Bugti’s death would be harmful for the country’s integrity, and it was a national tragedy.

“We can have differences with his style of politics and the way he acted on some occasions, but that doesn’t allow the cruel use of the military against political leaders,” said Sharif. “President General Pervez Musharraf once said that a missile would hit Bugti out of the blue, and today the president proved what he had said,” he told the channel.

He alleged that the military was using weapons against its own nationals, and the time had come for the people of Pakistan to stand up against military rule. “It is not legitimate if the army starts operations against politicians,” he said, adding that Bugti’s death would have a “negative impact on the politics of the country”. “The army launched such operations in 1971. We didn’t make the army for it to play such roles,” the former prime minister told Geo News.

Poll: Majority wants Israel`s Olmert to quit

http://edition.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/08/25/olmert.reut/index.html

“JERUSALEM (Reuters) -- Sixty-three percent of Israelis want Prime Minister Ehud Olmert to resign in a sharp public rebuke over his handling of the war in Lebanon against Hezbollah, a newspaper poll showed on Friday.

Many Israelis view a U.N.-brokered cease-fire backed by Olmert as a failure for Israel because Hezbollah`s leadership was left standing and the two Israeli soldiers, whose capture by Hezbollah on July 12 sparked the war, were still in captivity.”
“They`re outraged that Israel`s revered military somehow faltered in dislodging Hezbollah`s leadership and securing the return of two captured soldiers.”

Interesting! A majority of Israelis at least are more pragmatic and realists than the US public.

on the flip side: President Bush is staying the course in Iraq.
A blogger queries:
- Whereas the Israeli operation in Lebanon was based on widely recognized provocation, the US invasion of Iraq was based on misleading and false intelligence.

- Whereas 157 Israelis were killed in a month-long operation, the Iraq war has lasted three and a half years and resulted in nearly 3,000 deaths at a cost of hundreds of billions.

- The Lebanon war still has the potential to culminate in a stable, UN enforced ceasefire and a defanged Hezbollah. No comparably optimistic scenario has yet manifested in Iraq.

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=2006 08 27 story_27-8-2006_pg7_2

Sunday, August 27, 2006

Nawab Akbar Bugti — a profile

By Malik Siraj Akbar and Sarfaraz Ahmad

QUETTA/KARACHI: Nawab Akbar Khan Bugti, former chief minister and governor of Balochistan, was one of the leading political figures of the province for half a century.

He was born to Nawab Mehrab Khan Bugti in Barkhan on July 12, 1927. The late Nawab was a member of the Shah Jirga and voted for the creation of Pakistan in 1947. He became a member of the Constituent Assembly and served as the Minister of State for Interior and Defence in the 1958.

In 1962 he became a supporter of the National Awami Party (NAP) and supported Nawab Khair Bakhsh Marri as a candidate for the National Assembly from Quetta Division and Sardar Ataullah Mengal from Kalat Division. Both of them were elected with comprehensive majority, defeating Field Marshal Ayub Khan’s Conventional Muslims League.

When Ayub Khan addressed a public meeting at Mali Bagh in Quetta, the NAP held a public meeting the next day, which offended the field martial. Bugti was arrested and remained in jail until mid 1960s, after a very long hunger strike.

Nawab Bugti was also part of the political movement against the notorious One Unit. The movement ultimately forced Gen Yahya Khan to restore the federating units on July 1, 1970, six months before the 1970 general elections.

Bugti later developed differences with the NAP leadership and his old political associates like Mir Ghous Bakhsh Bizenjo, Nawab Khair Bakhsh Marri and Sardar Ataullah Mengal, and joined hands with Zulfikar Ali Bhutto. The tribal leader became the governor of Balochistan in February 1973, soon after the dismissal of Sardar Attaullah Mengal’s first elected provincial government. He resigned on December 31, 1973.

In the same year, his son late Saleem Bugti contested the by-election on the National Assembly seat vacated by Nawab Marri, but lost to Mir Taj Mohammad Jamali.

He became the chief minister of the province on February 4, 1989, representing the Balochistan National Alliance.

For the 1990 General Elections, Bugti formed his own political party, the Jamhoori Watan Party (JWP). A large number of settlers joined the party and tickets were given out liberally, even to non-Balochs. Bugti was elected to the provincial assembly. In 1993, Nawab Akbar Bugti was elected to the National Assembly representing the JWP.

Clashes between government forces and the Bugti tribesmen began last year after rocket attacks on Sui gas installations, presumably by the Bugti tribe. Two days ago, a government-sponsored Jirga held in Dera Bugti banned Sardari system in the area once ruled by Nawab Bugti.

Re: # 85

Interesting- There`s some structure to things.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/urdu/pakistan/story/2005/03/050228_baloch_story_16_nj.shtml

[Sorry to keep you frothing, obnoxious gentoos.]

http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/

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Sunday, August 27, 2006
Gap with Islamabad will widen: Mengal

By Malik Siraj Akbar

QUETTA: Sardar Akhtar Mengal, president of the Balochistan National Party (BNP), said Nawab Akbar Bugti’s death would have long-term negative implications, and the incident would “widen the gap between Islamabad and Balochistan”. Mengal told Daily Times that Nawab Bugti was a “fighter” for the rights of Balochs and his death had drawn the line between Balochistan and Pakistan. He said the Baloch nation would seek revenge for Nawab Bugti’s murder. “After every 10 years, they gift us dead bodies of our elders. We will not forget this,” he added.

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The incident is tragic: Fahim

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Pakistan People’s Party (PPP) President Makhdoom Amin Fahim called the killing of Nawab Akbar Bugti a tragic incident, saying that it would be followed by “lethal results”. He told Geo television that the death of Nawab Bugti would cause “massive destruction”. He said that this was an “extraordinary incident and the government had shocked the whole nation”. Fahim said it would be “destructive for Pakistan if the government continued such killings”. PPPP Information Secretary Sherry Rehman termed the incident a great threat and danger to the federation.

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Nawab Bugti’s death regrettable: Shujaat

Daily Times Monitor

LAHORE: Pakistan Muslim League President Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain regretted Nawab Akbar Bugti’s death in an operation conducted by the security forces on Saturday and prayed that his soul may rest in eternal peace. Talking to Geo news late on Saturday, Hussain refused to answer various queries by the channel. He said, “I will be able to comment only after receiving details of the incident.” Hussain said Bugti’s influence was limited only to Dera Bugti, adding that the over all law and order in Balochistan was a different issue.

#81 by nasah

Nasah,

please don`t comment on things you have no knowledge abt. This thread is not abt Pakistan and I think you again ruined the thread for some abusive posts. You are old enough to control your impulses and find commonality in unrelated events.

Eighty year old Baloch nationalist Akbar Bugti killed by Musharrafs smart bomb -- I think Musharraf`s un smart goose is now cooked in Balochistan -- for all times to come.

This is what happens when smart bombs fall into the Parkinson`s hands of dumb people -- like Ehud Olmert and Pervez Musharraf....

well -- folks of Bengladeshization of Baloch Land has begun......by the illustrious heir of that illustrious drunk Yahya Khan -- the Kargil-drunk Musharraf Tikka Khan......

Another topic for Dr. Gill -- please.

Re: # 81 by nasah on August 26, 2006 8:57pm PT

Yes, nasah, this is the most unfortunate turn of events for the regime in Islamabad. Killing of a Baloch icon, a true Pakistani nationalist, will not bode well for all people of Pakistan for years to come.

It is one thing to say that ends justify means. But if the ends turn out to be unachievable and were predicted to be so in advance then persisting in justifying the means is equivalent to criminal complicity.

It seems clear from recent statements on both sides of the Lebanon war that what happened was somewhat unexpected. (Though, we do have reports that Israel had plans in place for sometime.) Hezbollah didn`t expect Israel to respond as hard as they did. Israel didn`t expect Hezbollah to use so many rockets or to be able to launch them in the face of an air and ground attack.

Underestimating your enemy is one of the standard mistakes of warfare. WWI was supposed to take six months. What is clear is that the UN force being put into Lebanon will do nothing to stop a recurrence of a new war in the coming years. No policies have been changed, Hezbollah will be allowed to rearm and the local population will be helped/intimidated the same as before.

The real powers in the region like this state of affairs, it keeps people distracted and thus takes the focus away from the true dictatorships in Saudi Arabia, Syria, and the rest of the Arab states. Even the US and the West are happy with the present arrangement. It is easier to negotiate long term oil contracts with dictators than with democratically elected leaders.

In the case of Hezbollah, they do not present much of a threat to Israel except that they pose a threat of somewhat massive retaliation, say, would the US bomb Teheran.
However, Israel could inflict on Lebanon damage that is many times larger than Hezbollah could do, and Lebanon will shrug it off if she will get adequate foreign aid. Hezbollah has zero potential to present a credible danger as an invader.

According to Benjamin B. Ferencz, the lead American prosecutor of the Military Tribunal II-A (later renamed Tribunal II) to try the Einsatzgruppen Case the `concept` for the war wasn`t mistaken, the war itself may have been a crime against humanity. Benjamin B. Ferencz, who prosecuted and convicted 20 Nazi`s of crimes against humanity in 1947 at Nuremberg, was quoted:

``Nuremberg declared that aggressive war is the supreme international crime,`` the 87-year-old Ferencz said. He said the United Nations charter, which was written after the carnage of World War II, contains a provision that no nation can use armed force without the permission of the UN Security Council.