It should be called Stupid Ordinance, not Hudood!

Mantolives:

Your caring Pakistani patriots were the cheerleaders for Mush`s takeover and ``hailed`` his dictatorship (kasuri still among the faithfuls). While it was Asfandyar`s party that was the ONLY party along with the ousted PML(Nawaz Sharif) that spoke against the military take over.

If Asfandyar is to be judged by his fathers mere approval of Zia, then why shouldnt Benazir be judged by her father`s ``service`` for Ayub?

So before you start putting people on the two sides of the ``Caring`` divide dont conveniently ignore facts.

As Pakistanis we have two choices

1-Pakistan ka mutlab kya? La illaha ill Allah

YA

2-Pakistan ka mutlab kya? Goli, Curfew, Martial Law.

Kashmala Tariq`s suggestions were rejected by speakers from the liberal side, Amir Liaquat and Sher Afgan Niazi are neither fundos nor pathans so how exactly do you explain their ``unpatriotic or non-secular`` behaviour? for a reference you can go to slogan number 1.

Pakistan`s national assembly today is divided between those who care about the country, where it is going and how it should be run .... and those who don`t or have other more pressing agendas.

The former - the caring Pakistanis- are those patriots (Aitzaz Ahsan, Sherry Rahman, Syed Kabir Ali Wasti, Khurshid Mahmood Kasuri, Farooq Sitar, Kashmala Tariq etc) and sons and daughters of the soil whose antecedents had toiled for the creation of the country, who had toiled for democracy and who fought against martial laws of Ayub and Zia... these are the people who want hudood laws amended because they consider it the very antithesis of their Pakistaniyat...

The latter... those who are the uncaring types (Fazlurrahman, Qazi Hussain Ahmad, Isfandyar Wali Khan) are those whose antecedents called Pakistan kafiristan and a sin (Mufti Mahmood and Maulana Maududi), who sided with Sharia-honking Fakir of Ipi in his famous rebellion against the new state (Ghaffar Khan), joined the establishment`s conspiracies against both the people of East and West in form of the infamous ``republican party`` (Dr Khan Sahab), raised the slogan of ``Nizam-e-Mustafa`` (Mufti, Wali Khan, others) and hailed Zia`s dictatorship ... Today Fazlurrahman and Qazi types are open in their opposition, while Isfandyar (presumably secular and democratic) is silent... why - because for them it is always ``Sanoo ki, khasman noo khaan``


If the former prevail... the Hudood will be amended... if the latter prevail.. we can expect much of the same.

PS: The fact that this law was not passed by an elected legislature ... but by an ordinance by a military dictator (supported by ANP, Mufti Mahmood, JI and other old historically anti-Pakistan forces) would obviously be a very inconvenient a fact for people like Saharanpuri and other Indians who are meddling on this board for god knows what reason.

Nasah,

Ha ha ha. Talk about scoring points at our expense by turning facts on their head...

Not only did the Langurs from Jamiat-e-Ulema-Hind and most religious parties, being as they were the greatest allies of Congress, stay behind in India (and made their stances plane in the Shahbano and Imrana cases) ...

Your favorite Langoor Fazlurrahman, the son of old Congress ally Mufti Mahmood, has never shied away from saying that he never supported the creation of Pakistan and would rather see it reunited ... his father had famously declared at the fall of Dacca in 1971 ``Thank god we were not party to the sin of making Pakistan``.

Therefore, I hope that you would stop this monkey business of projecting this backwards... using the logic that you fellows use, Mufti Mahmood, FazluRahman and his ilk came into politics after a certain Mahatma Gandhi encouraged Mullahs to rise up during the Khilafat movement and overturn non-clerical Muslim leadership... using your logic- one could say that Fazlurrahman and the other langurs you decry - what should we make of the facts?

Netizen

Sorry for Spamming. Just give the specimen text. I will understand how to do it.
(nazarhayatkhan@yahoo.com)

nhk

Re: # 20

A brahmin is superior to a shudra in the same way a sayyad is to a non-sayyad. Hope this helps :)

Netizen

Thanks. I did put before and after the Image.

Anyway, I seemed to have goofed up somewhere. Those images were important.

In you own time, some time also tell me about Highlighting the TEXT. Sorry for taking these IT classess with you.

nhk

Some of our other sex issues needing religious intrepratation


Sex without wife’s consent rape: Kashmala

``http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/images/2006/08/26/20060826_04.jpg``

ISLAMABAD: Kashmala Tariq, a member of the NA Select Committee on Women’s Protection Bill, proposed that a husband having sex with his wife without her consent should be tried under rape charges. Kashmala said at a Select Committee meeting that men should not have sex with their wives against their will. She said that married women should not be treated like “buffaloes”. Kashmala told Daily Times that committee members Mehnaz Rafi, Zahid Hamid and Wasim Sajjad had endorsed her viewpoint.

``http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/images/2006/08/26/20060826_05.jpg``

No, it is unIslamic to stop husbands: Aamir

ISLAMABAD: Dr Aamir Liaqat Hussain, minister of state for religious affairs, opposed Kashmala’s proposal that men having sex with their wives be tried under rape charges, saying that it was “un-Islamic to stop husbands from having sex with their wives even if they were doing so without their consent”, sources told Daily Times. Aamir quoted Surah Nisah to defend his contention. Noorul Haq Qadri and Sher Afgan Niazi defended girls’ marriages at an early age. Niazi referred to marriage of Prophet (PBUH) to Hazrat Ayesha (RA), the sources added.

nhk

The stone-age ape khasis teach Indians civility......He he he....these khasi know how to ape the pre-modern apes of Arabia....

Theology....is it theology?

Woshipping pahllus is better than worshipping one who doesn`t have .....

Tail in hind legs.... He he he...

Re: # 41

One benefit of `47 partition was that most of the bearded Langurs from India migrated to Pakistan -- where they insist that a Muslim woman must be raped before 4 pious simians -- if not -- then the woman raped the man -- following the age old dictum -- seeing is believing -- no bearded seeing is no believing.

now who has heard in one`s wildest of the wildest Kafkaesque nightmares -- a `law` like that -- that can`t even be amended even trivially -- before tahmed`s maccaccas will be out on the streets gesticulating for more voyeurism.

no wonder that -- Heretic Hirsi -- the naughty Somalian Muslim woman -- wrote some of those -- I guess -- irrelevant Koranic Ayats on the naked bruised battered body of a badly beaten Muslim woman.......

......btw -- if Fazoolurrhan (the God`s reject) would like -- India should ship the remaining hirsute monkeys to Pakistan along with their cages of Muslim Personal Law.......for enlightened scientific research on more stringent Hudood Laws....

Mantolives #33 {``Salim pai, others,
Maybe I spoke too soon about MQM..
Amer Liaqat Hussain is apparently declaring that marital rape is ok.``}

Manto Bhai,
If indeed he said that, then I hope that he gets married to Fazloo and the latter has his way with him. :)

#45 contd..

use < and > at the beginning (before img src) and end (after ``url``) of the above sentence, respectively.

This url can be obtained by right-mouse click on the photo and selecting ``properties``, then copy the address/url (by highlighting it) and paste in place of url, between `` and ``.

Re: # 38

nhk:

``How do you paste pictures? Kindly enumerate the procedure. ``

using this, put the url between the quotation marks.

img src = ``url ``

use < and > at the beginning (before img src) and end (after ``url``) of the above sentence.

This url can be obtained by right-mouse click on the photo and selecting ``properties``, then copy the address/url and paste in ahead of the img src.

I agree totally with the author of this article. The Hudood Ordinance is a man made document and flawed and therefore should be amended. This is not to say I am criticising Hudood Laws in themselves but there are many conditions before they become eligible to be applied and justice is just one of them. In the current state Pakistani society is in (and this goes for all Islamic countries) Hudood cannot be applied.

There is a hadith which encourages judges to try to find reasons NOT to apply hudood punishments.

Re: # 40

``Its a girl``! You guys have a long way to civility, when you r in the vicinity give us a ring-ding we`ll give u directions, i doubt we`ll be getting that call anytime soon.

Baby I think you really need help from me. You are suffering from a diesease which I only I can treat you. Remember I am moulana discoverer. If you really failed to understand my post then stop creaking your head in this place. Beside I always wanted to meet a Hawaldar, so my dear ahmed hawaldar stop giving unnecessary direction to everyone. You really won`t get any call anytime soon.

LETS NOT FORGET THE PAST.PAKISTAN IS A DOOMED COUNTRY BUILT ON DEAD BODIES AND MASSACRES.NO WONDER ITS A FAILED NATION.

Competitive Massacre

Posted Monday, Sep. 8, 1947
While the orchestra at Lahore`s Falett`s Hotel played quietly for dancing, European guests drank cocktails on the moonlit terrace. Beyond earshot of the music, whole blocks of buildings lay gutted. Streets were bare and silent. Over the deserted railroad station the smell of corpses hung.
One-seventh of Lahore, capital of the Punjab, had been destroyed. Scores of nearby towns and villages had been razed. War—or rather, competitive massacre—between Moslems and Sikhs had reached a pitch of horror that made the Indian Mutiny of 1857 look like a mere street brawl. In two weeks, between 40,000 and 150,000 people had been killed in the Punjab. Most of the bodies were too hacked and charred to be recognized. At least a million were homeless.
``Never during two wars have I seen such sights as I have seen these last two days,`` said a middle-aged British colonel at Lahore airport. ``All those atrocity yarns we used to hear, such as Germans cutting Belgian children`s hands off and raping and then killing women, have suddenly come true in the Punjab during the last week.``
``The Joy of Fraternization.`` For months the Punjab`s communal hatred had been boiling up into slaughter. A previous climax came last spring when hundreds were killed in riots there (TIME, March 17). In mid-August the partition of the Punjab between India and Pakistan left 1.6 of the 3.8 million Sikhs in the province under Moslem rule; at least twice as many Moslems remained on the Indian side of the border in a new East Punjab state.
The Sikhs are an offshoot of the Hindu religion; they organized 300 years ago to resist militantly Moslem oppression. The British had used the warlike Sikhs extensively, giving them land and offices, especially in the fertile, predominantly Moslem West Punjab. In consequence, the Moslems hate Sikhs far more than they do Hindus.
The rest of India was relatively quiet. In once turbulent Calcutta, Mohandas K. Gandhi, still striving for Hindu-Moslem unity, was able to write of the situation there: ``One might almost say the joy of fraternization is leaping up from hour to hour.``
There was no fraternization in the Punjab. At Amritsar, on the Indian side of the border, organized gangs of Sikhs had exterminated or driven out the Moslem minority population (150,000). Moslems in Lahore and other Pakistan border regions retaliated against the Hindus and Sikhs there.
Mohamed Ali Jinnah, who had conceived Pakistan in hatred and was now its president and undisputed boss, sent to the West Punjab as governor his faithful follower, the Khan of Momdot. The bland, moonfaced Khan had served four years in the Punjab Legislative Assembly without opening his mouth. When he got to the West Punjab, he acted. With his province literally in flames, the Khan of Momdot relaxed regulations that had restricted the carrying of firearms; he also decreed that every man could wear a sword, provided it was covered.
Some of his subordinates went further. The Moslem deputy commissioner of one of the Western Punjab districts mourned a son killed on the Indian side of the border. Said he to the young Moslems: ``You have full liberty to go the limit.
Take revenge as you like, but if there is one Hindu or Sikh left alive in my district after you are through, I swear to kill them myself.``

The Canal Turned Pink. TIME Correspondent Robert Neville flew over the area last week, then talked with refugees and correspondents fleeing from the carnage. Neville cabled:
``Just flying over the Punjab today with a landing here & there gives a feeling that terrible things have happened below. The number of smoking villages that can be counted from Ambala up to Lahore must be at least 150. Here & there can be seen a big town like Sialkot and Gujranwala, where charred black districts tell the story that here the property of one entire community was wiped out.
``The panorama of West Punjab seems even worse. In hitherto peaceful districts like Montgomery and Lyallpur there is not one town which has not been a battlefield. There is no bazaar which has not been burned out. Streams of refugees can be seen approaching all bridges, and over some roads they form virtual convoys miles long. On a ten-mile stretch of road leading to the big bridge over the Sutlej River into Pakistan, there must have been 100,000 people, most of them walking beside bullock carts piled high with their sole possessions.
``At Lahore`s Central Station, Sikh and Hindu refugees from North or West Punjab were mobbed on the platform, often stabbed to death and their few belongings looted. A major incident involved a big convoy carrying perhaps 1,000 from Sialkot to Amritsar. The convoy was stopped and attacked at the Ravi River bridge. Hundreds were stabbed to death and other hundreds wounded.
``Refugees from Lyallpur in West Punjab say that so many Sikhs and Hindus were murdered and their bodies thrown into the canal that the canal actually had a pinkish color for a day after. Moslem refugees told how Sikhs stripped and paraded Moslem women through the streets, raped them and then killed them. British correspondents reported having seen dead, naked women lying about villages of the Amritsar district.``
A Look of Satisfaction. ``Although railway administrations of both Dominions have doggedly tried to keep a skeleton schedule going, they have now given up. For days on end no trains arrived in Delhi without having been attacked and looted practically all along the route.
``Near Jullundur, a band of Sikhs held up a train, methodically searched all compartments and pulled out 17 Moslems, whom they beheaded on the platform. Most amazing of all was the look of bland satisfaction on the faces of these young Sikh men, their hands dripping blood, their clothes smeared with blood, as they stood and grinned at their handiwork while the train finally pulled out. The only Moslems who escaped on this trip were two who were hidden by two British officers under their baggage.
``A British correspondent traveling in the opposite direction through this territory saw half a dozen lying stabbed on the Lahore platform, slowly dying without any help being given. Later that night, on a small siding south of Amritsar, a band of Sikhs entered his compartment and before his eyes beheaded a Moslem apparently trying to travel disguised as a Hindu. (For identification, both sides use the tried and true means of seeing whether there has been circumcision. Moslems always circumcize, the Hindus and Sikhs practically never.)
``A member of the U.S. Embassy arrived in Lahore from Delhi with another tale of horror. Reaching the small station of Okara, near Montgomery, he found the station platform utterly deserted except for several hundred dead Hindus and Sikhs lying around the platform, apparently slaughtered only a few hours before while waiting for the train to escape. All these people were workers in a textile mill which had been attacked by Moslems. Their bodies were mostly stripped and in several instances limbs had been torn from the bodies. The wife of a British textile factory manager told how a Moslem mob had attacked the Hindu and Sikh workers in another factory. When Moslems broke into the ground floor, the Sikhs slashed the throats of their own wives, and afterwards tried to fight through themselves. All were killed.``
Authorities were utterly unable to cope with the situation. In many cases both Sikh and Moslem police had participated in the riots. British soldiers, present in the Punjab, were not allowed to interfere under the arrangements now in force for Indian independence.
No Plans. For the homeless, crippled refugees, no one had anticipated relief measures. In New Delhi a penniless Hindu woman from the West Punjab clutched her two children, told of her husband`s murder by Moslems. ``Don`t ask her about her plans,`` cautioned a welfare official, ``she hasn`t any and neither have we.``
The rioting was breaking down railroad traffic between parts of India and Pakistan. Unless it was soon restored, both nations, especially Pakistan, would be economically crippled. Fearing that the Punjab rioting would spread, millions of Hindus and Moslems prepared to cross borders in a transfer of population greater than Europe had ever seen.
In his new capital, Karachi, Jinnah preached that ``restraint is necessary.`` However, the fires of communal hatred, which he had fanned for 20 years, were burning too brightly in the Punjab to be easily stifled. They might spread


From the Sep. 8, 1947 issue of TIME magazine