It should be called Stupid Ordinance, not Hudood!

Macacas demonstrating in pakistan yesterday, demanding their ``islamic`` right to put women behind bars while letting the rapists go free.

Discoverer:

Quite frankly i didn`t understand squat what your point was in the first. Again for the ampteenth time, i am not the author so if your responding to me then i wouldnt be able to comment on the resources of the author. I do however have heard of Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim. In adition i have also heard Of Tirmidhi, Maja and dawood all of which are considered authentic sources in Islamic Jurisprudance. I agree one should not quote a hadith if the chain of narration is weak, however just because ``Maulana Discoverer`` says its not a hadith, i wouldnt buy it, give me some time and i`ll look it up. Don`t start a shia-sunni thing here but why in the world would you think that Shia`s ahadith would list any story that would paint a favorable picture of Omer (RAW)? Show just a bit of intellect in your posts so one can take you seriously.

I said in my previous posts, i refuse to have any serious debates over theology with ``Khasis``. We can discuss bollywood, the art of making donuts and motels. Thats pretty much it. Do consider my dillema, it`s hard to rationalize with a people who in this day and age get mass abortions as soon as the sonogram says ``Its a girl``! You guys have a long way to civility, when you r in the vicinity give us a ring-ding we`ll give u directions, i doubt we`ll be getting that call anytime soon.

Manto;
Aamir liaquat has as much to do with Islam as Hinddooss has to do with deodrant. Aamir liaquat as a religious minister is the biggest joke of our generation. Am i the only one who can see the hypocracy and fakeness just flowing like river nile, everytime he opens his mouth. MQM has done some great things, but to give blanket loyality to a party or to an individual like he was the apostle or something is as dictatorial as it gets. I refuse to believe that every single person in Jamat-e-Islami is a bad person just because he is in Jamat-e-Islami, I am ashamed to say that it was engrained in our heads in early 80`s that all punjabi`s are bad people. Really? Faiz, habib Jalib, Iqbal, Malik mairaj Khalid, should i go on? I mean anyone who has just a bit of sense at all can see the remifications of this idiotic indoctrination. I am not talking about political correctness, but whoever amongst us has actually lived in pakistan, knows full well what a mess it was in eighties and ninties. We would get videos of Massacare`s in Aligarh colony and orangi like we are getting now from Gaza and west bank, and very rarely does a camera lie. The hatred and the fault was on both sides of the divide and I thank Allah swt that we have come a long way from those sad days. I know Saleem Bhai might not like me after this but We can criticize Jamat as a political party just as we should be able to question Peeran-e-peer Altaf Bhai. Problem arise when we equate questioning our party leaders as blasphemy, that kills the spirit of democarcy, the bird that we all seem to love and adore so much. I read somewhere on chowk that famous columnist hassan nisar was attacked and injured if infact thats true, its rather sad. He is one of the most honest, courageous and logical voice on our landscape and its quite depressing that we still can`t forgive peopel for having an opinion. Magar mayoosi gunnah hay nasir kazmi nay kaha tha,

Mayri jaan aaj ka ghum na kar,
kay najanay katib-e-waqt nay,

Kisii apnay kal mein hi bhool kar,
kaheen likh rakheen hoon musratein.

re.Ahmed Muzammil

``Once Omer (May Allah be pleased with him) was on his daily walk while he was the ruler of the Islamic Empire. He thought he heard the sound of music coming from a home, so he jumped over the wall to inquire because it was against the law at that time. The lady of the house got furious with his ruler that how dare he entered her house without her permission, Islamic shariah puts unprecedented sanctity of privacy and Omer (may Allah be pleased with him) realizing his grave mistake was apologetic and asked for forgiveness from her. ``

From wher you brought this fake Hadith. I know you heard it on TV. This is a example of how people make Hadith for themselve. Ever heard of SAI BUKHAREE or SAI MUSLIM, even shia never heard of this hadith. Maybe you got mixed-up with Muhammad bin Qasim

I have given you an example of how Consensual-sex can be proven and how 4 witness space can be filled as this issue was taken seriously by Islamic scholars in SAUDI ARABIA in 1993. MAGHAR SHAYAAD app koo zaraa darsay samac aataa hai.

My suggestion: try researching seriously.

Faisaluno # 9

How do you paste pictures? Kindly enumerate the procedure.

nhk

Re: # 20

The same old rants, poor chaps!

>>>You are the ulgiest nation on the face of this earth, you can`t enjoy bihari kabab, and then you will burn in hellfire for eternity.<<<<

The whole world knows who are the ugliest! Ha ha ha.

A Serious reply:

On Sati:

There were many Hindu law books, called Smritis, nowhere was it mentioned - though those books are of changing nature in different ages - about this necessity of widow burning. Sati was mostly limited to Rajputs in northenr India.

On Drinking of cow uirne:

It`s also a rare practice of a few madcaps under the guise of religion. Nowhere was it prescribed. I never heard or saw it anybody doing it.

Brhaman Vs Shudar:

How is it different from a low caste vs high caste hate in Pakistan?

On Worship of Genetalia:

It`s an ancient practice of phallus worship, attributing repodudictive abilities of phallus. Tell me why you worship a god who has none?

On Human sacrifice:

Where when?

Look at YOUR Human sacrifice:

Yestrday`s International Herald Tribune front page:

ROME

A man of Pakistani origin has been detained in northern Italy on suspicion of murdering his daughter because she had an Italian boyfriend and refused to conform to an Islamic lifestyle, the police said.

Mohammed Saleem and a relative had been taken in for questioning in the slaying of 21-year-old Hina Saleem, whose body was found buried in the garden of the family home in the nearby town of Sarezzo. The police said that the young woman`s throat had been slit.

Poser:

Small brains, big mouths!!!! Anyway the US would take care of you guys.

Mantolives:

It was the democratically elected sarhad assembly that posed a ban on any public musical performance, it was the same assembly that banned the faces of women on billboards. It was all in the ``spirit`` of Islam as dictated by the constitution. How many main stream political parties have done anything substantial against it? zero.

It is ironically the dictator who is stopping the Mullah in the NWFP from carrying out his dream, the same dictator who didnt allow the ``hugely`` popular Nawaz Sharif from declaring himself the Ameer ul Momineen. While it was the democratically elected Quaid A Awam who declared the Ahmadi a Kafir, something that was almost unanimously cheered by all political parties.

Come to the NWFP and talk to people, the majority wants sharia and they are disgusted with the greedy mullah for not delivering on his promise.

So it does not matter what Mr. Jinnah said or didnt say, the reality is that this land was ``liberated`` for the muslims i.e. people who believe in Islam (an ideology), and this islamization is a natural consequence of partition.

Re: # 20
Ahmer,

There is no justification for a wife burning in a pyre. Sati mata after whom this Sati pratha is named immolated herself in a pyre WHILE her husband was alive.

The crime she punished HERSELF was for disobeying her Husband Bhagwan Mahadev and listening to him get abused by her own father.

Bhagwan Mahadev led by his cohorts Nandi, Sheshnag and others wrecked terrible vengeance on his father-in-law. Later Bhagwan Mahadev punished himself by doing ghor Tapsya (Tapasya from tapna to burn).

So a true Sati is not one who burns himself on her husbands pyre but in the case of his dying lives as a Suhagan (holding the memory of her husband and her atma as present) and carries forward his vision/good work/wishes.

Unlike what you Mozzies claim as perversions of Islam but what the Mullahs prove by fiqah and qiyas this is truly a perversion of our religion.

Also at times Sati has been equated with Jauhar which was a ritual mass suicide by Hindu women when their city or fort was in danger of falling into the hands of Muslims invaders to prevent dishonour, slavery or concubinage at their hands, death before dishonour being the credo of most Hindus except for probably your ancestors and a couple of more million cowards like them.

Regards
Sanatani

Re: # 31

Wiseguyin Mahoday,

Jai Shri Ram. I am envious of your grasp of Sanskrit. Pity our Macaulayite education never taught us more than rudiments.

Warm Regards
Sanatani

Salim pai, others,

Maybe I spoke too soon about MQM...

Amer Liaqat Hussain is apparently declaring that marital rape is ok.

Now that is really ridiculous - coming as it did from a government minister countering another government minister.

Re: # 27

jang

``Aboute rape, apparently there is a hadith that a witness once said that he had witnessed a rape. at which point the witness was awarded blinding on one eye and chopping off left hand..the arguement was, if you were a witness, you should have proclaimed an immediated jihad against such opression. i am not sure why left hand was chopped.``

Really or just `apparently`? We must have such a hadees, attributed to Jang (RAT), even if there was none before, to be incorporated in the compilation `New Bukhari`.

Four eye witnesses for zinna in action! Why not film it with a mobile? Ha ha ha! No body dares to admit that the Quranic injunction to this effect was only to prevent accusation (tohmat) of zinna, specifically against Hazrat Aishah and not to prescribe any general law against zinna.

I would like to ask the following questions from the Ullemas of chowk:-

1. Have they not read in Qurane Hakeem the story of Hazrat Yousaf having been falsely accused of attempt to rape by a woman of Egypt of Pharaoh’s time and as a result got jailed?

2. Have they not heard the story of Ajeeba, a Kashmiri girl, who had accused a doctor of the Mayo Hospital of rape and got him jailed? She later withdrew her allegation and all this incident was treated by the Supreme Court just a hoax, making a joke of all Hadood and the common law of the land, providing only juicy reports for the press. Paradoxically, it is the same judiciary which is treating wedding meals as a serious crime and sending poor bridegrooms to jail for entertaining their guests.

3. Is not the woman who alleges to have been raped not confessing in the first place of having been subjected to zina and secondly accusing, repeat accusing, someone of raping her? Can confession and accusation be treated equally, both for the purpose of evidence and punishment?

4. And above all, what about Mukhtaran Mai who became the `Rape Queen` just by accusing Mastoies of rape?

Re: # 20

To my former Hindu Brother ahmer ...

Sanatan Dharma 101:

> how is it that a retard Brahman is superior to an intelligent Shudar....

Prashna:
rajan kulena vrttena svadhyayena shrutena va
brahmanyam kenabhavati prabruhyetatsu nishcitam

King, how does one become a Brahmin: by birth?
character? study of the Vedas? education? Tell me precisely.

Uttar:
shrnu yaksha kulam tata nasvadhyayo nacashrutam
karanam hi dvijatve ca vrttameva na samshayha

Listen, Yaksha, it is neither birth nor education, nor even the study
of the Vedas. Without doubt, it is character alone that marks a Brahmin.

Simple. Ain`t it ??

Arjun_M,

I am impressed by your exemplary mominocity in the countless hours of research and selfless effort that you have expended in the service of Ummahdom. Exposing the faults of our leaders and the sad state of our society is the first task every momin - and, sir, you are first among the suntanned ones. :) We are all indebted to you for your courageous sincerity and uncompromising jihad against the enemies of the true faith. May I suggest that you now move up to the next level of your endeavors - from research to rectification? May Allah bless you with 72 Draupattis in the hereafter.

Jang #27, {``Aboute rape, apparently there is a hadith that ...``}

Jang,
In my refined spirit of accomodation with fellow Chowkies, please accept my sincere apology for calling you ``compassionate.`` It won`t happen again. :)

Now, as far as this or many other Hadiths are concerned, I have stopped paying attention to them. I have a problem with people fighting over, killing, dying, planning around, and especially, legislating important laws on the basis of what so and so said to so and so, while walking from here to there, in a place we forget, at a time we have very little knowledge about, concerning issues that we know people in antiquity were very misinformed over. In short, if every community and nation started to base all their laws on what was rumored to have been said or was written is some ancient text in a long-forgotten language or dialect.

nazarhayatkhan #4 {``Sharia is nothing more than the history of the Abbasid Arabs. How can you make history as your Regulations?
And how come `Quran`, supposed to be an all all-encompassing book, missed out on `Rape`; and it had to put into the `Penal Code`. ``}

Khan Sahib,
Two excellent points that you have listed. :) Good for you, sir. If in their pursuit of religious extremism, the abominable Wahabbis can make holy persons irrelevant, why can`t we moderate Muslims make so-called holy cows, such as Sharia, Hadiths, and narrow interpretations of the Holy Koran, less domineering in our mundane laws?

#23 salim, stop hurling abuses like compassionate..i prefer to be dispassionate.

Aboute rape, apparently there is a hadith that a witness once said that he had witnessed a rape. at which point the witness was awarded blinding on one eye and chopping off left hand..the arguement was, if you were a witness, you should have proclaimed an immediated jihad against such opression. i am not sure why left hand was chopped.

#10, Mantolives {``Which is why MQM`s entry into Punjab should be supported whatever the argument against it... ``}


Manto Bhai,
...and may I recommend Tahmed16 as the MQM`s Punjab chairman? :)