Remembering a great Pakistani: Sir Zafrullah Khan

Liar-e-Azam,

Let me start this on the pain u r talking about......

I have many things to do in life than sepnding hours on this site discussing Pakistani topics.........I hoped that there`d be a better or equal coverage of Indian topics like Naxalism, poverty, river-water disputes, women`s issues, Indian politics, Indian minorities, history, (ancient to modern), Vedas, Upanishads, Sufism, Mogul India, language politics.... many many many issues including the contemporay ones. SO FAR NONE OF TH4E TOPICS WERE COVERED.

Why shud I spend hours worrying abt ur country instead of worrying about my country?

I saw a circumstantial evidence of u using this site for self-aggrandisement and promotion of your world-view of this region........Lahore PLUS Jinnah-centric India-Pakistan. The Qn I posed is NOT abusive but sensitive to your religious beliefs..........

Abt Gujarat let me tell u:

U asked that Muslims were killed in Gujarat (as if it was purely a Hindu Vs Muslim issue) then I gave a clue of my counter argument on communal lines though I prefer to look at it as an issue between bad Muslims and bad Hindus. You wanted me to say something to the effect that it was Hindus Vs Muslims. NOPE. PL read this again.

This is what I said, contrary to what u claim:

>>>>>Every country had criminals and hard-core criminals, terorists et al. How can I deny that even Dawood Ibrahim was an Indian? This line of arguments (Hindus Vs Muslims) displays your childishness or lack of elemantary understanding of national identity. You started the argument with a slant that it was Hindu Vs others. So I gave you a clue about a possible counter-argument from that angle. If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.<<<<<<

I repeat:

If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.<<<<<<<<

I CANT SAY WHAT U WANT TO HEAR FROM ME. I SAID WHAT I HAVE TO SAY & THAT`S WHAT I BELIEVE. I CANT BADMOUTH THE WHOLE COMMUNITY BUT ISI-SUPPORTERS IN INDIA, WHICHEVER COMMUNITY THEY ARE FROM, INCLUDING HINDUS (ONE BRAHMIN BOY WAS CAUGHT WORKING FOR ISI IN GUJ RECENTLY, FOR UR INFO).


Thanks for not repeating the same shibboleths.

Now Yasser is employing spellcheck..some improvement!!!!! Thank God for small mercies. I wish there was some tool that corrected his logic as well.

#327 by Mantolives

or wait... is the fact that I have buckteeth, harish`s best argument... I don`t know.

Please let us know how democracy and Zakat are one and the same? Which Madarssa did you go to dear Yasser?

Please read as under:


#327 by Mantolives on September 5, 2006 5:41am PT
or wait... is the fact that I have buckteeth, harish`s best argument... I don`t know.
[Reply to interact #327]


#326 by Mantolives on September 5, 2006 5:40am PT
Dear VRV,

Let me disabuse you of this notion of normalcy. Nothing about you and Harish is ``Normal``...
You had declared that you could not be intolerant to other people because you were an Indian. When I pointed out Gujurat, you said it wasn`t started by Indians. When asked to elaborate, you told me that 42% of Godhra`s population is Muslim. It is clear as day... has nothing to do with me being a lawyer... more with you being an Indian. As for Harish mian- after being caught red handed lying ot once but twice, the best argument he can forward is that I misspelt a Margaret Bourke White`s last name...

It seems to me that every time the urdu proverb ``Khawajay ka gawah daddoo/tattoo`` is applicable you seem to be involved in the transaction. BTW- how is the pain that you were complaining off yesterday for being over-exposed to the truth? I hope you feel better.

yours sincerely

But in the name of god/bhagwan/cow ...what does my ``bucktooth`` have to do with this argument.

Your bucktooth is as relevant to this argument as my looks are. I just had to bring that in to show you how foolish you look when you said this in post #322 - ``Also You sure seem to have too many hang ups about how you look and your English language skills``. To get the point across to a fool, you have to speak his language. Got the point now?

Forget what my excuse is or what Jinnah`s excuse was. I merely quoted the same person you said was issuing ``damning indictments`` ... Was it not the same M C Chagla?

I knew you`d come to this. You`d prefer that I forget this whole thing so Jinnah can rest in peace in his grave and you can go back home after having redeemed his lost reputation, but the fact my dear, is that Jinnah was an absolute fool blinded by his own vanity, which is why he thought he`d get away with that blackmail. The Congress called his bluff and then Jinnah (and his ar$e-lickers like you) whines that he didn`t expect that the Congress would accept Partition. What a pathetic excuse!

BTW, Jinnah`s remarks as reported by Chagla are a fact, where as the portions you took great trouble to highlight and then post are his opinions. Do you know the difference between the two (I doubt it, given your brilliant comprehension skills)?

Re: # 324

Pl read as:

#325 by VRV on September 5, 2006 5:34am PT
Re: # 324

Liar-e-Azam,

I cant say what u want to hear from me. You have to take what I said. This is what I said, take it or leave it.

A normal person with normal comprehension would understand the way Harish and me understood it. For lawyers who try to lie & try to elicit their skewed-mind thoughts from others..... I cant do that favour and badmouth all Indian Muslims. Sorry.

or wait... is the fact that I have buckteeth, harish`s best argument... I don`t know.

Dear VRV,

Let me disabuse you of this notion of normalcy. Nothing about you and Harish is ``Normal``...
You had declared that you could not be intolerant to other people because you were an Indian. When I pointed out Gujurat, you said it wasn`t started by Indians. When asked to elaborate, you told me that 42% of Godhra`s population is Muslim. It is clear as day... has nothing to do with me being a lawyer... more with you being an Indian. As for Harish mian- after being caught red handed lying ot once but twice, the best argument he can forward is that I misspelt a Margaret Bourke White`s last name...

It seems to me that every time the urdu proverb ``Khawajay ka gawah daddoo/tattoo`` is applicable you seem to be involved in the transaction. BTW- how is the pain that you were complaining off yesterday for being over-exposed to the truth? I hope you feel better.

yours sincerely

Re: # 324

Liar-e-Azam,

I cant say what u want to hear from you. You have to take what I said. This is what I said, take it or leave it.

A normal person with normal comprehension would understand the way Harish and me understood. For lawyers who try to lie, they try to elicit their skewed-mind thoughts from others. So I cant do u a favour and badmouth all Indian Muslims. Sorry.

Harish-hydro`s prayers have been answered.

VRV,

Nope... This is the post you put up after I pointed out the apparent logic in your argument that Indians didn`t start the Gujurat issue... that it was the 42% Muslim population of Godhra.

Re: # 320

Liar-e-Azam,

You had comprehension problems, obviously. U dont have shame to repeat the same lie again and again. Is that all Pakistanis are like you i.e. shameless liars?

I AM CLEAR NOW THAT YOU ARE NOT ONLY THE LIAR-E-AZAM
BUT DYSLEXIC-E-AZAM & DEMENTIC-E-AZAM. But for the sake of brevity I prefer Liar-e-Azam.

This is what I said, contrary to what u claim:

>>>>>Every country had criminals and hard-core criminals, terorists et al. How can I deny that even Dawood Ibrahim was an Indian? This line of arguments (Hindus Vs Muslims) displays your childishness or lack of elemantary understanding of national identity. You started the argument with a slant that it was Hindu Vs others. So I gave you a clue about a possible counter-argument from that angle. If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.<<<<<<

I repeat:

If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.

You say:

>>>you, VRV, call all Muslims ``Non-Indians`` and declare that Islam has no room for tolerance<<<<

Have I ever called ALL Muslims as Non-Indians? NEVER.

I said, people like Yasin Malik, Geelani, MirWaiz and Noorani - though hold Indian passports DONT CONSIDER THEMSELVES AS INDIANS. I called them Resident Non-Indians. Exactly. They live in India and hold Indian nationality on paper but do not consider themselves as Indians. It`s THOSE people who are RNIs NOT ALL MUSLIMS..

+++++


VRV.

Dear Harish mian,

Tsk tsk... having a bad day at your call centre?

But in the name of god/bhagwan/cow ...what does my ``bucktooth`` have to do with this argument. When was the last time you took a peak at that scary little thing they call ``your reflection``? And bhai why are you whining and crying just because your own source blew up in your face. Forget what my excuse is or what Jinnah`s excuse was. I merely quoted the same person you said was issuing ``damning indictments`` ... Was it not the same M C Chagla? And still no mention of that tailor incident?

And I hope that VRV gets your distress signal soon and comes to help you out of the ditch that you so willingly hurled yourself into. Now let us see.. VRV says that Gujurat massacre was not started by Indians but by Muslims of Godhra and I am twisting his words? Clearly something is very loose up in your head. That you have to clutch at straws to impugn my honesty shows just how weak your pov really is.

Take a prozac or something.

#319 by Mantolives

Whether or not you think it is an excuse (I am just glad I don`t have to live with people as disgustingly dishonest as yourself), please note it is the same M C Chagla, the guy you referring to and whose ``indictment`` (if only you understood the meaning of the word) you quoted out of context, who says that Jinnah did not want partition.

That`s the problem, Mr. Know-it-all! You just read up someone and repeat those words faithfully without using your very own brain (oops..sorry, maybe there isn`t such a thing inside that head). Like I said earlier, Jinnah devised that absolutely brilliant strategy without an exit route? Was the crooked genius not aware of what could happen if his roguish blackmail didn`t work? Or was it that the man went insane during those days (as evidenced by the incoherent responses to Margaret Bourke White).

Basically your source just blew up in your face... As for the ``tailor incident``.... I quoted the exact incident exactly where you got it from and you were caught lying. You are just not man enough to admit it.

Calm down Yasser, you don`t want your wife and kid to see you jumping in front of that computer terminal and think that a monkey is running loose inside your house, do you? With that buck tooth, you look rather simian (no disrespect intended to the other buck-toothed guys Ronaldo and Ronaldinho) and it would be very difficult not to mistake you for one.

This is not the first time you`ve been caught lying... but being the shameless follower of a shameless racist casteist bigoted Mahatma, nothing else is expected from you.

Right here, on this very board, VRV exposed you for the liar you are. Earlier, you were caught with your pants down on the Bhagat Singh issue as well. If you had an iota of decency which I`m convinced you do not possess, you`d hang yourself out of sheer shame. But then the lawyer that you are, coupled with being Jinnah`s follower, honesty doesn`t come easy.

Also You sure seem to have too many hang ups about how you look and your English language skills... Methinks there is a raw nerve there.

Au contraire, my dear, it is you who`s having serious personality issues which is why you brought in my looks, for I never mentioned how good or bad I looked

So I see you are back to quoting Margaret Bourkwhite selectively- for some reason you seem to fancy (and you would given the mental ability that you`ve displayed) that Jinnah would discuss these issues with Margaret Bourkwhite- a known Congress sympathizer and a mere photographer, and somehow her spin on it is the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

For the nth time, it is Bourke White and not Bourkwhite - I have never heard of such a last name, is it another one of your fancy creations? Or is it dyslexia? And what is selective about that quote? I even provided the link for Chowkies so they could savor Jinnah`s brilliance. And she was a Congress sympathizer just because Yasser, the liar (oops..lawyer) says so? Any evidence or is it yet another of your outlandish claims? The intro also claims that she was a correspondent for the Life magazine, just because Yasser could discredit more easily if she was just a photographer, he decided that she was a photographer..wow! Talk about being selective!

We know that Jinnah spoke of democracy and equal rights for people ... and Jinnah papers are full of answers to these very questions. Then your post is merely an indication of a diseased and dishonest mind who after being shamed on two counts is now falling back into regular patterns.

Zakat and democracy are one? Thanks for enlightening us.

Also the two fresh ``lies`` about me that you`ve revealed:

1. What VRV said was that Indians didn`t start the Gujurat massacre... that it was started by Muslims. When I asked him how that was so ... he told me that 42% of the population of Godhra was Muslim. The implication of that is clear to every sane and reasonable person- except those who are blind. VRV also called MJ Akbar, Seema Mustafa and A G Noorani, resident non-Indians for god knows what reason. Abusing me would hardly take away from those feelings of deep seated insecurity which forces you to make everything an ego match- enough for you to lie like there is no tomorrow. Ah well ... that is your prerogative.

2. I was not aware of Gandhi making any statements in favor of Bhagat Singh, certainly not the kind of speech that Jinnah made in the assembly against the British government... but once you pointed it out, I accepted that Gandhi did indeed make some noise - though according Drlokraj too little too late- even if to appease the masses. Quite unlike your deliberate distortion of the tailor incident...

Dear Harish mian,

Whether or not you think it is an excuse (I am just glad I don`t have to live with people as disgustingly dishonest as yourself), please note it is the same M C Chagla, the guy you referring to and whose ``indictment`` (if only you understood the meaning of the word) you quoted out of context, who says that Jinnah did not want partition. Basically your source just blew up in your face... As for the ``tailor incident``.... I quoted the exact incident exactly where you got it from and you were caught lying. You are just not man enough to admit it. This is not the first time you`ve been caught lying... but being the shameless follower of a shameless racist casteist bigoted Mahatma, nothing else is expected from you.

Also You sure seem to have too many hang ups about how you look and your English language skills... Methinks there is a raw nerve there. So I see you are back to quoting Margaret Bourkwhite selectively- for some reason you seem to fancy (and you would given the mental ability that you`ve displayed) that Jinnah would discuss these issues with Margaret Bourkwhite- a known Congress sympathizer and a mere photographer, and somehow her spin on it is the whole truth and nothing but the truth. We know that Jinnah spoke of democracy and equal rights for people ... and Jinnah papers are full of answers to these very questions. Then your post is merely an indication of a diseased and dishonest mind who after being shamed on two counts is now falling back into regular patterns.

Have a nice one.

#279 by Mantolives

What damning ``indictment`` is there... except in your imagination and bad English comprehension- why do you leave out the damning indictment of Gandhi and the Congress Party in those lines?

Is this your way of getting back at me for exposing your poor English over the past 1 year or so? Anyone with half a brain, or perhaps a little bit of integrity would understand that one of the basic things that everyone devising a strategy knows is that there is a thing called exit route. Even the most cocksure strategist leaves an exit route. That Jinnah`s demand for a Partition was a bargaining counter is one of the lamest excuses that I`ve ever come across. The ``brilliant`` lawyer that he was, he should have been a trifle smarter and thought on the lines of ``what if the Congress didn`t give into his blackmail and agreed to the Partition?`` But the old fool didn`t think through (or perhaps didn`t want to) and the hare-brained creation of his half-baked ideas is there for everyone to see.

Is this a shameless attempt to hide the fact that you were caught red handed lying about the tailor incident ... which you have failed to back up till now... nor have you admitted that you are two bit liar like that Mahatma of yours....

Yaar Yasser, being shameless comes naturally to you..it is only 2 days since I mentioned that tailor incident and I clearly told you that I read it quite some time back and will need time to dig it out. So isn`t this jumping up and down like a monkey a bit premature?

As for lying, it is crystal clear as to how you blatantly tried to twist VRV`s post and made it look as if he claimed that Indian Muslims are not Indians. Being a lawyer by profession and a political aspirant, and that too a Jinnah follower, once cannot expect any different from you. Even if you were just any one of the three, you`d still be a liar. Even earlier, you had lied that Jinnah was the only one to have pleaded with the British for Bhagat Singh`s lfe, but I had to step in and expose your lies. That hamzaad post about you is quite apt.

Your pathetic attempts at claiming victory mirror those of Saddam Hussain after Gulf War 1.

And your celebrations mirror that of Jinnah in that Margaret Bourke White interview where he was blabbering rather incoherently.

Excerpts:

If Fatima`s reaction was a glow of family pride, her brother`s was a fever of ecstasy. Jinnah`s deep-sunk eyes were pinpoints of excitement. His whole manner indicated that an almost overwhelming exaltation was racing through his veins. I had murmured some words of congratulation on his achievement in creating the world`s largest Islamic nation.

``Oh, it`s not just the largest Islamic nation. Pakistan is the fifth-largest nation in the world!``

The note of personal triumph was so unmistakable that I wondered how much thought he gave to the human cost: more Muslim lives had been sacrificed to create the new Muslim homeland than America, for example, had lost during the entire second World War. I hoped he had a constructive plan for the seventy million citizens of Pakistan. What kind of constitution did he intend to draw up?

``Of course it will be a democratic constitution; Islam is a democratic religion.``

I ventured to suggest that the term ``democracy`` was often loosely used these days. Could he define what he had in mind?

``Democracy is not just a new thing we are learning,`` said Jinnah. ``It is in our blood. We have always had our system of zakat -- our obligation to the poor.``

This confusion of democracy with charity troubled me. I begged him to be more specific.