Remembering a great Pakistani: Sir Zafrullah Khan
Yasser Latif Hamdani August 31, 2006
#493 Posted by MantoLives on September 17, 2006 9:43:16 am
Correction:
That is the violence in Calcutta on direct action day was wholely planned by the Congress Party.
That is the violence in Calcutta on direct action day was wholely planned by the Congress Party.
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#492 Posted by MantoLives on September 17, 2006 9:42:13 am
Dear VRV
The only problem is that the statement that you are quoting is NOT from Suhrawardy`s memoir... the only thing you`ve put up is a citation that has nothing to do with the statement. Despite my request, you`ve not produced the page number of the memoir so that we could put the matter to the rest.
While your quote- which is as is unsourced- doesn`t say much ... my Wavell quote proves quite clearly that Muslim League was not involved... The fact that the number of Muslims dead was three times tha number of Hindus... It is quite clear to anyone that the Direct Action Day was wholely planned by the Congress Party.
The only problem is that the statement that you are quoting is NOT from Suhrawardy`s memoir... the only thing you`ve put up is a citation that has nothing to do with the statement. Despite my request, you`ve not produced the page number of the memoir so that we could put the matter to the rest.
While your quote- which is as is unsourced- doesn`t say much ... my Wavell quote proves quite clearly that Muslim League was not involved... The fact that the number of Muslims dead was three times tha number of Hindus... It is quite clear to anyone that the Direct Action Day was wholely planned by the Congress Party.
#491 Posted by VRV on September 17, 2006 9:01:59 am
My friend,
Dunia gol hai.........You repeat Wavell`s single sentence I repeat the man in charge of Begnal...........We keep doing like his till I come up with new evidence. Since u are trying to undo my evidence by quoting a guy sitting in Delhi. It wud a world of difference if u give full text of the msg u are posting.
For the sake of ur benefit:
This has cleared all the doubts abt DAD as to why in Calcutta why not other provinces, why it was started by the Muslim League....
So we`d have fun till I come up new evidence............
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
Dunia gol hai.........You repeat Wavell`s single sentence I repeat the man in charge of Begnal...........We keep doing like his till I come up with new evidence. Since u are trying to undo my evidence by quoting a guy sitting in Delhi. It wud a world of difference if u give full text of the msg u are posting.
For the sake of ur benefit:
This has cleared all the doubts abt DAD as to why in Calcutta why not other provinces, why it was started by the Muslim League....
So we`d have fun till I come up new evidence............
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
#490 Posted by MantoLives on September 17, 2006 2:42:41 am
Dear VRV,
Now you are being repetitive...
1. The quote is not from the Memoirs of Suhrawardy. I know the exact link you got them from and it is clear from there to. For one thing it is not in first person.
2. Lord Wavell`s final conclusion is what is the final comment on the issue:
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
BTW... I see 11000 hits.. just what I promised... now lets see if we can take this to 500 posts well.
Now you are being repetitive...
1. The quote is not from the Memoirs of Suhrawardy. I know the exact link you got them from and it is clear from there to. For one thing it is not in first person.
2. Lord Wavell`s final conclusion is what is the final comment on the issue:
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
BTW... I see 11000 hits.. just what I promised... now lets see if we can take this to 500 posts well.
#489 Posted by VRV on September 17, 2006 1:10:13 am
My friend,
If u need evidence, Memoirs of Suhrawardy is the best, since he was the Prime Minister then.......
If u want more.......there is no end to it. What Harish gave is good enough and there`s a parallel reporting in newspapers those days.
I wud like to produce Times archives here, may be in a couple of days.....when I am in London.
I DONT LIKE TO CONVINCE YOU NOR I WAIT FOR YOUR ACQUISCENCE OF THE FACTS.
I wud give more details for the sake of record and for the people who read this.
I dont think u read the Memoirs, I repeat it for ur convenience:
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
If u need evidence, Memoirs of Suhrawardy is the best, since he was the Prime Minister then.......
If u want more.......there is no end to it. What Harish gave is good enough and there`s a parallel reporting in newspapers those days.
I wud like to produce Times archives here, may be in a couple of days.....when I am in London.
I DONT LIKE TO CONVINCE YOU NOR I WAIT FOR YOUR ACQUISCENCE OF THE FACTS.
I wud give more details for the sake of record and for the people who read this.
I dont think u read the Memoirs, I repeat it for ur convenience:
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
#488 Posted by MantoLives on September 17, 2006 12:50:11 am
Dear VRV,
Once again that is not from the memoir and you have not quoted any primary source for the assertion that Suhrawardy told Wavell that the riot was the result of DAD.
The violence was the result of Congress planning... and nothing else.
Now unlike your assertion which is not based by facts.... here is what Lord Wavell said:
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
Whatever Harish has quoted... (and it was proved that his quote was inaccurate ) ... cannot be taken as objective evidence for the facts of case. Evidence suggests that many more Muslims died... and Congress leadership celebrated. Therefore the finger clearly points to Congress Party.
Once again that is not from the memoir and you have not quoted any primary source for the assertion that Suhrawardy told Wavell that the riot was the result of DAD.
The violence was the result of Congress planning... and nothing else.
Now unlike your assertion which is not based by facts.... here is what Lord Wavell said:
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
Whatever Harish has quoted... (and it was proved that his quote was inaccurate ) ... cannot be taken as objective evidence for the facts of case. Evidence suggests that many more Muslims died... and Congress leadership celebrated. Therefore the finger clearly points to Congress Party.
#487 Posted by VRV on September 15, 2006 11:59:47 pm
Manto,
Ha Ha Ha...... Btw, I liked that picture and that is equally, if not more, is applicable to Manto as well. Ha Ha Ha..............
I repeat the memoirs of Suhrawardy who was the Prime Minister of Bengal. DAD is after all is Jinnah`s idea of unleashing a trailer of civil war in India.........Anybody with elemenatary education wud understand this, that excludes you btw. I understand ur predicament ...... poor chap.
Looking at this record with what Harish quoted in his posts, it wud become amply clear whose programe of DAD bloodshed is...... MUSLIM LEAGUE!
The vampire Jinnah who has no respect for human lives.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Since u are outside the pale of educated persons......I excuse u for NOT understanding this. Till then, have fun.
Ha Ha Ha...... Btw, I liked that picture and that is equally, if not more, is applicable to Manto as well. Ha Ha Ha..............
I repeat the memoirs of Suhrawardy who was the Prime Minister of Bengal. DAD is after all is Jinnah`s idea of unleashing a trailer of civil war in India.........Anybody with elemenatary education wud understand this, that excludes you btw. I understand ur predicament ...... poor chap.
Looking at this record with what Harish quoted in his posts, it wud become amply clear whose programe of DAD bloodshed is...... MUSLIM LEAGUE!
The vampire Jinnah who has no respect for human lives.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot. Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Since u are outside the pale of educated persons......I excuse u for NOT understanding this. Till then, have fun.
#486 Posted by MantoLives on September 15, 2006 10:22:21 pm
Dear VRV,
First of all that is not a memoir clearly ... as H S Suhrawardy is not in first person... secondly even this quote does not any place say that the Muslim League planned violence.
Infact... the fact the number of Muslims killed was disproportionately higher and the trained planning of the Congress Goondas... it is reasonable to presume that Congress was behind the violence...
When read with the final conclusion:
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
It is clear that it couldn`t be the Muslim League...
Your desperation is most pathetic... please accept this caricature as my token of love:
A day in the life of VRV... (also applicable to Harish Gurumoorthy)
#485 Posted by VRV on September 15, 2006 8:37:38 am
Manto,
You repeat ur lies here, again!! You have guts and gumption or u must be a shameless creature unworthy of any respect or response from us. I need to reconsider abt u.
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot.126 Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
Suhrawady did what Modi did: Declare a holiday, ask the police to look away and get somebody endorse that he did a good job?????????
Jinnah did what Advani did....history repeats itself!
YOU WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT DAD WAS A CONGRESS PLAN??????????
You Moron-e-Azam! How shameless u are?
You repeat ur lies here, again!! You have guts and gumption or u must be a shameless creature unworthy of any respect or response from us. I need to reconsider abt u.
MEMOIRS OF SUHRAWARDY
University Press Ltd ,Bangladesh
Pl hear this from Horse mouth:
Background to DAD:
At this time, betraying the Muslim cause, the Viceroy called upon Pandit Nehru to form an interim government which he did, but the Muslim League refused to participate in it Jinnah even cancelled his talks with Lord Wavell, the Viceroy, and proclaimed 16 August as Direct Action Day.
On Why DAD was active in Calcutta not elsewhere:
The one-member majority Muslim League government in Sind, formed after the assassination of the Congress Chief minister Allahbux, was also asked, but, because it was a shaky government, its Muslim League members could not be trusted. So, all the risks of the Direct Action Day fell on the Bengal government On that day Muslims were expected to gather in large numbers to proclaim their adherence to the concept of Pakistan Shaheed Suhrawardy declared a holiday for that day in Calcutta
Suhrawardy`s explanation to Wavell on bloodshed:
The Viceroy wanted to know from Prime Minister Suhrawardy how he could be held responsible for the riot.126 Suhrawardy explained that the riot was a consequence of the formation of the interim government without Muslim League representation.......
Replication of DAD in other states? Read this.....
He further warned that what had happened in Calcutta would repeat itself all over India unless the British government changed its policy.
Suhrawady did what Modi did: Declare a holiday, ask the police to look away and get somebody endorse that he did a good job?????????
Jinnah did what Advani did....history repeats itself!
YOU WANT US TO BELIEVE THAT DAD WAS A CONGRESS PLAN??????????
You Moron-e-Azam! How shameless u are?
#484 Posted by MantoLives on September 15, 2006 2:58:02 am
Dear VRV,
All I am asking you is to please refer me to the exact post where you quoted these ``memoirs`` of Suhrawardy or quote them again for our benefit in clear English. Your above average queen`s English is beyond my comprehension, given the new techniques you use. I`ve read the memoirs and they make no such confession which is why I await your response.
All we know for sure so far is that Lord Wavell concluded, in a confidential letter to Pethick Lawrence (which was declassified in the mid-1970s), after thorough investigation, that Muslim League was not culpable.
It is a fact of history that Mahatma Gandhi`s Congress planned murders (Narendra Modi followed the same Gandhian technique in Gujurat)... Like Patel... Modi too expressed his glee at the murder of Muslims...
As for your comment... as I pointed out you are confusing Muhammad Ali of the Ali Brothers with Jinnah ... Jinnah never supported Gandhian non-cooperation movement nor did he know arabic words like Tark-e-Muwalat... those were words of Maulana Muhammad Ali and Azad.
All I am asking you is to please refer me to the exact post where you quoted these ``memoirs`` of Suhrawardy or quote them again for our benefit in clear English. Your above average queen`s English is beyond my comprehension, given the new techniques you use. I`ve read the memoirs and they make no such confession which is why I await your response.
All we know for sure so far is that Lord Wavell concluded, in a confidential letter to Pethick Lawrence (which was declassified in the mid-1970s), after thorough investigation, that Muslim League was not culpable.
It is a fact of history that Mahatma Gandhi`s Congress planned murders (Narendra Modi followed the same Gandhian technique in Gujurat)... Like Patel... Modi too expressed his glee at the murder of Muslims...
As for your comment... as I pointed out you are confusing Muhammad Ali of the Ali Brothers with Jinnah ... Jinnah never supported Gandhian non-cooperation movement nor did he know arabic words like Tark-e-Muwalat... those were words of Maulana Muhammad Ali and Azad.
#483 Posted by VRV on September 15, 2006 12:02:22 am
My friend Manto,
You just move in circles. I mentioned from the memoirs of Bengal PM. Suhrawardy made self-confession abt the motive of ML in unleashing communal mayhem i.e. replicating Calcutta killings all over India
........lies like Gandhi planned murders....look like the words of a pervert......u are no less…………..
As for Non-cooperation, Jinnah mentioned (Tark-e-Muwalat) that it was the religious duty of Muslims to support NC and thereby Gandhi, which he overturned and made fun of Gandhi for his NC movement, a wily political move by Jinnah.
I said that I need to access the Transfer of Power volumes to give u specific reply on DAD. Till then u can engage in self-congratulation or wait like a gentleman till I meet u on some other board with my reply. My immediate reply may not be forthcoming with full details (since I am not in London but in East Midlands)........
In any case u know the in and out of DAD. As a liar........sorry lawyer, u wud like to protect your client ML and try to absolve them. With people of this mentality I am not surprised when lawyers of VHP are protecting the riot accused in Gujarat now and Modi was being hailed as a person who controlled the riots & these lawyers claim that BJP had no hand in the riots.......
History repeats itself........Like Jinnah like Modi AND there are people like u who absolve the politicians of murder! I am not surprised. You dont have a modicum of decency to admit any single good quality or deed of Gandhi or a decency to admit that politics of murder is wrong and ungodly.
You just move in circles. I mentioned from the memoirs of Bengal PM. Suhrawardy made self-confession abt the motive of ML in unleashing communal mayhem i.e. replicating Calcutta killings all over India
........lies like Gandhi planned murders....look like the words of a pervert......u are no less…………..
As for Non-cooperation, Jinnah mentioned (Tark-e-Muwalat) that it was the religious duty of Muslims to support NC and thereby Gandhi, which he overturned and made fun of Gandhi for his NC movement, a wily political move by Jinnah.
I said that I need to access the Transfer of Power volumes to give u specific reply on DAD. Till then u can engage in self-congratulation or wait like a gentleman till I meet u on some other board with my reply. My immediate reply may not be forthcoming with full details (since I am not in London but in East Midlands)........
In any case u know the in and out of DAD. As a liar........sorry lawyer, u wud like to protect your client ML and try to absolve them. With people of this mentality I am not surprised when lawyers of VHP are protecting the riot accused in Gujarat now and Modi was being hailed as a person who controlled the riots & these lawyers claim that BJP had no hand in the riots.......
History repeats itself........Like Jinnah like Modi AND there are people like u who absolve the politicians of murder! I am not surprised. You dont have a modicum of decency to admit any single good quality or deed of Gandhi or a decency to admit that politics of murder is wrong and ungodly.
#482 Posted by MantoLives on September 14, 2006 9:18:45 pm
Dear VRV,
I`ve been looking through them and you`ve produced no such memoirs... could you please point out which post it was- because I have seen several of your posts... and as far as I can see, you didn`t produce anything - let alone copious amounts of evidence. Suhrawardy`s memoirs are easily available and they place the blame wholely solely on the Congress. Perhaps you suffer from the same disease your friend Harish Hyd suffers from- a disease of deceit and distortion.
What matters is that after all the investigation... Lord Wavell, secretly, confided in Pethick Lawrence and explicitly ruled out Muslim League involvement.
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
As for non-cooperation... it is true that Jinnah was never against non-cooperation as a principle... at that point his opposition was to Gandhi`s use of religious symbols to stir the masses... both Hindu and Muslim.. However... the specific support to Gandhi you mention came from maulana Muhammad Ali ... who was a gandhi disciple... and not Jinnah - who quit the Congress at Nagpur around the time the non-cooperation started.
I`ve been looking through them and you`ve produced no such memoirs... could you please point out which post it was- because I have seen several of your posts... and as far as I can see, you didn`t produce anything - let alone copious amounts of evidence. Suhrawardy`s memoirs are easily available and they place the blame wholely solely on the Congress. Perhaps you suffer from the same disease your friend Harish Hyd suffers from- a disease of deceit and distortion.
What matters is that after all the investigation... Lord Wavell, secretly, confided in Pethick Lawrence and explicitly ruled out Muslim League involvement.
``I`ve found no evidence of muslim league involvement in calcutta killings and appreciably larger number of Muslims died than Hindus``
(Mansergh Volume IX TOPP Page 879)
As for non-cooperation... it is true that Jinnah was never against non-cooperation as a principle... at that point his opposition was to Gandhi`s use of religious symbols to stir the masses... both Hindu and Muslim.. However... the specific support to Gandhi you mention came from maulana Muhammad Ali ... who was a gandhi disciple... and not Jinnah - who quit the Congress at Nagpur around the time the non-cooperation started.
#481 Posted by VRV on September 14, 2006 11:33:40 am
Re: # 480
My friend Manto,
I can produce copious amounts of evidence on Calcutta killings from the reports of civic administration on the role of ML thugs who blasted the heads of innocents......I cant give them offhand now. I need to access Transfer of Power volumes. (It also seems to be that u ignored the reports of civic administration on the role ML’s Calcutta killings or trying to whitewash by asking me for a quote? Werent u? I dont think u wud have missed this part of your reading??????). Didnt u expose urself by naming Gandhi as a person who planned murders???????????
Over and above the memoirs of the Prime Minsiter of Bengal Suhrawardy was quoted for ur benefit in my previous post which clearly stated what they wanted to do (violence) and what they did and what they are going to replicate all over India.......confession from the horse mouth!
As for the Non-cooperation movement. A point that was NOT discussed on these boards so far..........I shall reveal:
In one of the Muslim League meetings after Jinnah fell away from Gandhi and Congress, Jinnah was on record exhorting his Muslim Leaguers and Muslims in general to support Gandhi`s non-cooperation movement (pl read The Muslim League Papers 1905 to 1948). Jinnah even called the Non-Cooperation Movement as divine injunction quoting Quran that people shud not submit to oppression of British and he called it Tark-e-Muwalat (or something of that Persian word), explaining that Tark-e-Muwalat is Non-cooperation and God had even asked Muslims to not to cooperate therefore Jinnah asked Muslims to join Congress in Non-cooperation as a religious duty!
As usual Jinnah took U-turn on this non-Cooperation and poked fun at Gandhi for his Non-Cooperation movement later.
Wasn`t Jinnah resorting to opportunism and playing politics and inconsistent in his approach on major issues?
How many times shall we expose ur bias???????
My friend Manto,
I can produce copious amounts of evidence on Calcutta killings from the reports of civic administration on the role of ML thugs who blasted the heads of innocents......I cant give them offhand now. I need to access Transfer of Power volumes. (It also seems to be that u ignored the reports of civic administration on the role ML’s Calcutta killings or trying to whitewash by asking me for a quote? Werent u? I dont think u wud have missed this part of your reading??????). Didnt u expose urself by naming Gandhi as a person who planned murders???????????
Over and above the memoirs of the Prime Minsiter of Bengal Suhrawardy was quoted for ur benefit in my previous post which clearly stated what they wanted to do (violence) and what they did and what they are going to replicate all over India.......confession from the horse mouth!
As for the Non-cooperation movement. A point that was NOT discussed on these boards so far..........I shall reveal:
In one of the Muslim League meetings after Jinnah fell away from Gandhi and Congress, Jinnah was on record exhorting his Muslim Leaguers and Muslims in general to support Gandhi`s non-cooperation movement (pl read The Muslim League Papers 1905 to 1948). Jinnah even called the Non-Cooperation Movement as divine injunction quoting Quran that people shud not submit to oppression of British and he called it Tark-e-Muwalat (or something of that Persian word), explaining that Tark-e-Muwalat is Non-cooperation and God had even asked Muslims to not to cooperate therefore Jinnah asked Muslims to join Congress in Non-cooperation as a religious duty!
As usual Jinnah took U-turn on this non-Cooperation and poked fun at Gandhi for his Non-Cooperation movement later.
Wasn`t Jinnah resorting to opportunism and playing politics and inconsistent in his approach on major issues?
How many times shall we expose ur bias???????
#480 Posted by MantoLives on September 14, 2006 9:03:22 am
Dear Pewresearch...
My definition was evolutionary. Unlike the US, India (and Pakistan) were deeply divided along communal identities...
VRV,
How am I moving in circles... that statement from Wavell - made in absolute confidence and which was only declassified 30 years later- shows conclusively that Muslim League had nothing to do with the Calcutta killings.
You did not raise any points... I responded to your point and gave you a clear cut judgement by the supreme official that there was no evidence of Muslim League culpability.
For one thing you did not produce any evidence nor have you quoted any primary source... nor have you produced any confession or any source in that particular respect... so why are you resorting to the old business of lying?
You ask what was the point of the DAD... my question... What was the point of Gandhi`s non-cooperation movement...? If Muslim League wanted to create Mayhem... there were other places, where it could use the mayhem to bring down the government... The fact was that Congress took the opportunity and tried to bring down the Cross communal Muslim League ministry down...
Your points about Rahmat Ali are irrelevant as it is well known that beyond suggesting the name Rahmat Ali formed no part of the Pakistan Movement as we know it.
Refer to my point 4 in 374 for the rest.
My definition was evolutionary. Unlike the US, India (and Pakistan) were deeply divided along communal identities...
VRV,
How am I moving in circles... that statement from Wavell - made in absolute confidence and which was only declassified 30 years later- shows conclusively that Muslim League had nothing to do with the Calcutta killings.
You did not raise any points... I responded to your point and gave you a clear cut judgement by the supreme official that there was no evidence of Muslim League culpability.
For one thing you did not produce any evidence nor have you quoted any primary source... nor have you produced any confession or any source in that particular respect... so why are you resorting to the old business of lying?
You ask what was the point of the DAD... my question... What was the point of Gandhi`s non-cooperation movement...? If Muslim League wanted to create Mayhem... there were other places, where it could use the mayhem to bring down the government... The fact was that Congress took the opportunity and tried to bring down the Cross communal Muslim League ministry down...
Your points about Rahmat Ali are irrelevant as it is well known that beyond suggesting the name Rahmat Ali formed no part of the Pakistan Movement as we know it.
Refer to my point 4 in 374 for the rest.
#479 Posted by PewResearch on September 14, 2006 7:39:10 am
Re: # 477 Manto
``I disagree with your definition``
That was not my definition. It was yours (i.e. strict separation of church and state). By the standards of that American formulation Jinnah falls short.
``I disagree with your definition``
That was not my definition. It was yours (i.e. strict separation of church and state). By the standards of that American formulation Jinnah falls short.
#478 Posted by VRV on September 14, 2006 7:00:13 am
Re: # 469
Manto,
You keep moving circles...poor chap.
You didnt answer to Suhrawardy`s self-confession in his meeting with Wavell that ML wud replicate Calcutta mayhem to other parts of India. My frined, pl read what the officials compiled on Calcutta incidents and ML`s bloodbath.
Without ur answers to my points I cant give answers to ur points. Your points in my previous posts were busted and u have audacity to come back with selective quotes?
What is the basis for DAD? ML want to terrorise the British and Congress for ignoring ML`s demands and inviting Congress to form an interim govt.
Your education didnt teach u fundamentals of logic and basics of reasoning. If u dont have a point u admit......
Manto,
You keep moving circles...poor chap.
You didnt answer to Suhrawardy`s self-confession in his meeting with Wavell that ML wud replicate Calcutta mayhem to other parts of India. My frined, pl read what the officials compiled on Calcutta incidents and ML`s bloodbath.
Without ur answers to my points I cant give answers to ur points. Your points in my previous posts were busted and u have audacity to come back with selective quotes?
What is the basis for DAD? ML want to terrorise the British and Congress for ignoring ML`s demands and inviting Congress to form an interim govt.
Your education didnt teach u fundamentals of logic and basics of reasoning. If u dont have a point u admit......
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