Remembering a great Pakistani: Sir Zafrullah Khan

HP,

While I more or less agree with your broad theme, you are still viewing things as black and white. Let us take Gandhi. What was his most important contribution? Not independence or freedom. He simply popularized politics amongst a section of the unwashed masses, masses who always thought that the gap between the ``raja`` and the ``praja`` is god given. How did he do it? Well, for the purpose of identification he started wearing diapers. But more importantly he used religion and myths and turned it on its head when needed (not accross the board). In other words he used the language of our bigoted ancestors and twisted it slightly to get what he wanted - mass participation in politics. Mind you the masses never understood godless communism or western-materialism per se. Why? Because of tremendous fluctuations in real incomes. Under such uncertainty, `hope` is required to live life and `god` provided that hope. People (fundamentalists, castists?) are still using these tactics toward both good and bad ends.

But that was simply the first stage. Participation in politics is not equivalent to the ability to formulate foreign policy or even run trade unions. It is here that the half educated natives came in to play a positive role. Their confidence in being able to do the required was induced by leaders like Jinnah and Nehru.

Thus both types of people played a role in moving a great mass of population out of inertia. What is happening now? Well, I do not know about Pakistan but, in India politicians like Mulayam, Mayavati, Laloo etc. (who are actually extremely intelligent) give a damn to the IAS guys educated in `good` schools. Mulayam has already been in-charge of defence in the federal govt. Soon you may have a Mayavati type formulating foreign policy. More ugly Indians will perhaps be negotiating with sophisticated and good looking Pakistanis and the good looking Indians will perhaps be fighting for gym. instructor jobs. Many Indians agonize over this phenomenon and are also `ashamed` about it. I am not, and I think that this is a very positive development. You will understand why.

Dear VRV,

Yaar ...no need to lose your temper.

Lets go over the context of your statements again...

You declared that because you were brought up Indian, you were tolerant to other faiths.
When I mentioned Gujurat, you said ``remember who started it`` and that ``42% of the population of Godhra was Muslim, who were ISI agents.``

What is the implication of this? Am I twisting your words? BTW.. if my countrymen disagree with me .. I don`t declare them to be non-Indians... have you made up your mind if Seema Mustafa, M J Akbar and A G Noorani are Indians or not?

FTR... I am not the one making it an India vs. Pakistan match. I merely asked Echoboom and BJKumar to take their hate-filled stuff elsewhere...

As for Jinnah digging a ditch or whatever.. for a gujurati khoja westernised Muslim who was an Indian first second and last .. and who is the only politician to be called the best Ambassador of Hindu Muslim unity ... Jinnah had very good reasons for being concerned by the spectre of Hindu fundamentalism.

Even today ... you fellows insist on imposing Vande Mataram ( a poem from a blatantly anti-Muslim novel - Anand Math) on non-Hindus.... and you, VRV, call all Muslims ``Non-Indians`` and declare that Islam has no room for tolerance (so much for your claim that you are accepting of all faiths because you are an Indian)...

How long are you going to take this ridiculous line of reasoning. Come to Pakistan. See how much better the country is than India ... open your eyes. Had it not been for Pakistan, maybe I really would be a janitor in the US or a sweatshop worker in UK.

This article had nothing really to do with India or Ahmadi religious beliefs. Yet some people insisted on making it exactly that. Why do you people whine when a can of whoopass is opened accordingly on your rearend?

Re: # 50

manto mian,

........ you should really stop tangling with the likes of maulana echo, swami bjkumar and the neophyte shiv sena warrior vrv - when you step in doo doo you are bound to get dirty ........ you are a bright young man with a great political future in front of you - leave this dung-flinging up to us old gasbags ........ when i have the time i will put these ....... these - the word punks comes to mind, but i am not going to use it - in place ...........

ylh zindabad !
jinnah zindabad !
sir zafarullah zindabad !

Re: # 50

My friend, I wud like to call u this way then Manto, coz my fingers go to type this L-I-E-S...

This is what I said on the other board, contrary what u say now:

>>>>>Every country had criminals and hard-core criminals, terorists et al. How can I deny that even Dawood Ibrahim was an Indian? This line of arguments (Hindus Vs Muslims) displays your childishness or lack of elemantary understanding of national identity. You started the argument with a slant that it was Hindu Vs others. So I gave you a clue about a possible counter-argument from that angle. If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.<<<<<<

I repeat:

If you like it or not the town of Godhra has 42% Muslims and some of them are ISI`s paid-agents. Some are true Indians by heart.

You say:

>>>you, VRV, call all Muslims ``Non-Indians`` and declare that Islam has no room for tolerance<<<<

Have I ever called ALL Muslims as Non-Indians? NEVER.

I said, people like Yasin Malik, Geelani, MirWaiz and Noorani - though hold Indian passports DONT CONSIDER THEMSELVES AS INDIANS. I called them Resident Non-Indians. Exactly. They live in India and hold Indian nationality on paper but do not consider themselves as Indians. It`s THOSE people who are RNIs NOT ALL MUSLIMS..

Your new name shud be MantoLIES, indeed.

OK, I undrstand your efforts in having 500-odd comments on this umimportant piece.

Pl look for BJ Kumar or somebody :-))))

To:
VRV, bJk & any or all ill-wishers of Pakistan Quaid-i-Azam muslims or Islam.

Just do not ever think that the most apparently kafir mushrik murtid munafique or mirzai
would ever be opposed once it comes to final coalition of MUSLIMS of any hue stripe or dot.

Our internal but public fights are for our own good & NOT for your comfort & convenience or for you to suddenly start advising Muslims or Pakistanis..Refrain! Cease! Desist.

You are quite a number of notches below in the scheme of things.

Whenever the choice is offered between your types,I will embrace Yasser Latif Hamadani, even if he opposed or hurt me.

Whenever the real-politik comes always always remember it is SECULAR nonpraying Goondaas from every community who fight the street battles. These kind can never be labeled as ``fundos``, ``pious``, or ``practicing`` ones but it is these types who come to the rescue of those quivering & quavering within the cantonement & colony compounds & waiting for these ``goondaas`` fighting for the cause of Islam ( Hindooism in your case)

No matter how ``SECULAR``, the monster dragon hibernates till the day a fire is lit above its body covered in mud & mistaken as an island--and then like in Sindbad`s story--the ``island`` starts to move.

P.S: Not written to placate Yasser or any iota-muslim here. Just to remind every muslim here that we are with you, EVEN if you keep on saying you are not with us.

``NasaruLLah a min Fatah-un-Quareeb``......................Qura`an-i Hakim
tr: and then with Allah`s help the grand Victory came .

Thhe Universe is unfolding as it should; and the destination is now within our eyesight. It is the Belief & Confidence which`ll get us there & no historical & analysis is of any use unless & until it gives us the resolve to scream: ``NEVER AGAIN``!

Re: # 51

Friend,

You stinky.....dirty:-)

Hamid,

OK, for the sake of record.

Shive sena is a bunch of bastards, Bal Thackey is an invalid eunuch, a paper tiger.

You need more?


Is that OK?

Dear VRV,

You called M J Akbar, Seema Mustafa and A G Noorani... who are more secular than any Indian Muslims I know... resident Non-Indians... what hope do the rest of the Indian Muslims have to be Indians in your eyes?

Make up your mind dude. Are they citizens or not?

And then .. please consider yourself part of the same advice I tendered to the twins Echoboom and BJKumar below...

Re: # 54

EchoBOOOOOOM,

When the topic `Secular` comes, the big theif and small theif join hands.......

That`s what we want. Be united. We dont want you to fight...................

I know by experience that most of the muslims are anti-secular (in a Muslim majority country). No matter what you say, Qadianis were already disenfranchised in Pakistan. That`s a fact. Now you both can embrace.

Peace Be Upon You All.

Sarve Jana Sukhinobhavantu (means, let all people live in peace).

With VRV`s confusion laid bare with his last post, I am happy to take Hamidm`s advice to me and ignore the nefarious alliance altogether.

Re: # 56

Friend,

You need to get clarification from those guys...

Why they call only bad Indians as Ugly Indians but not the bad Muslims? That means THEY DONT consider Muslims as Indians??????? They had an attitude problem.

Anyway you stand exposed as a LIAR in my previous post.


LET SOMEBODY JOIN YOU FOR MORE POSTS........

Re: # 45

Manto,

we really thank god that you did. Tis a pity that the Hindus did not turn out the fundo`s back into the land of the pure.

Heres hoping we will unite the separated Muslims of the Indian sub continent in Pakistan, and get back all our Hindu bretheren back.

Regards
Sanatani

Sattar, Yasar ,

Any one who reaches the highest level of his profession with honors have to be extremely intelligent, hardworking, and dedicated; no matter how much luck you have, you don’t make it to the top at least from the humble backgrounds. I am not questioning his personal integrity or his personal achievement. In fact, I am not arguing that the choices he made were bad choices. It is always difficult in our part of the world for the middle class guys to take up a cause that does not provide some roti or respect to the family. Zafarullah was not the first one and he will not be the last one.

#32 by Netizen
“You seem to be very knowledgeable. could you please support your arguments with examples in the case of these two mahatmas... mahatma gandhi and mahatma jyotiba phule.”

Sometimes it is better to read up on your own country’s history if not all, at least the part that deals with the most contentious issue of independence. Secondly, I write based on what I read in numerous books. How am I going to find all those books on the net? Neither do I have time nor do I care if someone fails to see the point because he lacks the info. Lastly, comments that I make are based on how I looked at different events and the results and of course the personal behavior of some leaders. I can be entirely wrong but my observations are what they are. Please read GT’s post to see how he is contending my points because he has some understanding of what I wrote and he does not need any links to confirm what I said .

Re: # 59

Pl read:

Why they call only bad Hindus as Ugly Indians but not the bad Muslims? That means THEY DONT consider Muslims as Indians???????

i/o

Why they call only bad Indians as Ugly Indians but not the bad Muslims? That means THEY DONT consider Muslims as Indians???????

Re: # 52

Dear Hamid,

I had choicest abuses for all kinds of fundamentalists i.e Christain, Islamic, Hindu or Jewish....I don`t care. Thes fundoos are the enemies of humanity..

All kinds extremism proved to us that they despise the values of human lives. Take the history of any country. Even extremist Marxism killed millions of people.

Nobody saw GOD, though we all preach about it.

In the name of unseen GOD we kill others? Somebody DO IT,somebody CONDONE IT. In a varying degree both are crimes.

Did Echoboom saw GOD?

What happened to Qadianis is wrong. When Indians say it, some people dont like it. U guys take care of your own house. That`s not our problem. We just see from sideslines how you deal with your problem or else read in newspapers how you killed each other OR how you made peace.

Re: # 49

Bravo GT sahib,

well said. For all his intelligence I do not think HP will get. And you had better not tell anyone why. Those Bharatvasis who get GT Bhai`s point should guard it like a state secret on the lines of ``For your mind only``.

I think why HP will not get it is because:

1) There are no reservations for low caste Muslims in pak.

2) Pakis have not had proper Democracy.

3) Form is very important to Pakis.

We have their counterparts here. The kinds who love Benazir for her looks and style but Mayawati leaves them cold, when they do not realise the triumph of the Indian state is (despite her corruption) Mayawati, not Mulayam or Laloo they are coat tail riders of that great Man Chaudhary Charan Singh an ex-congressi and that scumbag JP also an ex-congressi). When you mention Benazir`s flat and house in UK to them compared to Behenji`s 500 Gaz ki kothi in Inderpuri they retort ``oh she is so stylishly corrupt``.

Vote for BSP next time GT bhai.

Pakis please take Benny and her stylish corruption you will make quite a few Macaulayite Indians sick in their stomach and green in their faces with envy.

Warm Regards
Sanatani