Terrorism is Nobody's Monopoly

Re: # 47

{This spared the British the necassary humiliation that was log due, before they left India.}

For a while you were on the roll there, then u had to mess it up with that last statement. what a pity. After 100+years of imperial occupation, total domination, subjugation of masses the Brits were going to be humiliated by a bunch of khaskar idiots.....then again some ppl still believe Elvis lives so why sud`nt muslim masses have their wet fantasies.

#46 by rf786 on September 11, 2006 12:44pm PT
Re: # 44


Radio Frequency Walley Bismillah Sahib, :) my comments in bold to your statements in response to Zee`s comments in { } .

{Ranjeet Singh was a local hero whose chief of staff was from Gujranwala. Mulims never considered him a foreign oppressor. He was a son of the soil.}

son of the soil? its ok to convert badshahi mosque into a cattle den simply because it was done by son of the soil...brilliant logic

Today, The Sikh stables are back to being the Badshahi Masjid - a fate that is better than the one enjoyed by the more ancient and more revered Babri Masjid in India. Also, Ranjit Singh`s memorial is protected by the Muslim GoP. :)

{Hallagu`s army`s ass was thoroughly kicked and his empire finally brought to an end by no other than Mamluk Muslims at Ain Jalut.}

True, but u very conviniently forget the defeat and total destruction of the Abbasid caliphate, Ayyubid states in Syria and Mamluk sultanate of Egypt by a foreign invader.

While it is true that the Abbasids were defeated and humiliated, the Mongols suffered their first real defeat at the hands of Sultan Baibars, who defeated BOTH the Mongols and the Crusaders almost simultaneiously. The Mamluk Sultanate of Egypt was NOT destroyed by the Mongols. It was defeated by fellow Muslim Ottomans in 1517 under Selim Yavuz (Selim the Grim). The fact that the southern and western Mongols became Muslim resulted in Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Tataristan, Golden Horde, Kipchak, Krim, and Sibir becoming part of Muslim world - not to mention the conquest of Muslim India by Moghuls and expansion all the way to Burma, Assam, and eventually almost to the tip of South India.

{Who were the train robbers at Kakori?}
100 years of deliberate amnesia?

I don`t understand this reference. Isn`t Kakori near Lucknow?

{I can`t believe you cite this. The french left mountains of severed french heads behind.}
It seems u r in the business of head counts....history is not your area of expertise

Bottom line is that all of North Africa has been freed from French and Eye Tallian occupation.

{So? It was the end of an empire of Turks over others.This is silly and irrelevant to your point.}

Turkish/ottoman empire was the last standing Muslim state that suffered defat at the hand of foreign invaders. Then again, brainwashed wahabi fascist would never acknowledge ottoman defeat as muslim loss cause they were co-conspirators in the subterfuge which bought down the non-arab muslim empire.

You are right about the treachery of the Arabs, but it was the Hashemite Sharif of Mecca - Hussein, the great great grand-father of the current King Abadoola II of Jordan. Today, Turkey is much stronger than the dying sick man of Europe. Thank you Ghazi Mustafa Kemal Pasha.

{creation of nation states by imperial west (UK-France)
Again silly and besides the point. The occupation ended didn`t it?}
as if though it was because muslims were able to upstage the imperial forces? Had it not been for WWI, WWII, communism and uncle sam, these lands wud still be held by the colonial powers. Kabhee parliya karo, sharmindagee sey bachjaogay


You have a good point about WWII and Communism. However, the pressure to leave was applied by Muslim (and Hindu) struggle for independence all over the place. Nobody leaves a profitable set-up - they leave only when the rewards are not commensurate with the investment or costs. Witness Algeria, Tunisia, Egypt, India, Yemen, Aden, Indonesia, Malaysia, and so on.


{Israeli defeat and occupation of arab lands.
And the intifadas are in acceptance of that occupation?}
Yassir Arafat becharra died as a prisoner and M Abbass is willing to sign anything with the Israelis, intifada....hogya fida....by the way, Israeil armies defeated Egyptian, Syrian and Jordanian armies in 1967 taking land from them which they refuse to hand over....puree muslim/arab world has applied their ghand ka zaur and they cannot even squeeze a fart...

Good point about Palestinians, but I think the recent performance by Hajiboola and the entrance of Eye Ran into the fray may alter the equilibrium. Also, watch out for US overstretching in Eye Rack, Afaghanistan, and elsewhere.

{flood of muslim refugees headed towards heathen western soceities.
Does economic migration have anything to do with resistance to occupation?}
economic, political or social fact of the matter is it completly debunks your theory that muslims do not accept subjugation. They were willing migrants to England as factory workers and are now willing migrants to the land of `satan`. Sure ask them to burn effigies of bush and blair, but offer them an opportunity to migrate to the west and see how quickly they change their stripes. Now that wud be called hyopcrisy by civilized people that is if they have any self-respect.

Regardless of how you put it, being g 3% to 5 % of various European and Ameican populations is not a bad situation. This is how the Jews in US got clout and the Irish in US prosopered. So, more power to this phenomenon.

Re: # 50

Salim Sahib, Aadaab

Muslims have suffered centuries imperial oppression and occupation, to claim otherwise is foolish and arrogant. Yes, its true they have resisted and fought for their freedom, no one can take that away from them. Then again, there is a school of thought which believes in the theory that imperial occupation never ended, it mutated into a glorified serfdom.

Re: # 42 GT
[...Qasim and others succeeded because the locals, oppressed by their rulers chose to join Qasim or not to fight...]

Fine - so paki fore-fathers just switched the oppressors, voluntarily... either way, pakis are still progeny of grandpa gopinath and are still oppressed... :)

+++

[... The present Jihadis are fighting back because they feel oppressed by the powers that be. However, the Jihadis have brought the struggle to your doorstep. Now the question is: do YOU feel opressed by the powers that be....]

OK - why my door step? Am I the powers that be?... if I am powers that be, then why should I feel oppressed?...

GT man - you have couple of screws loose ... :))

#51 Adaab rf786 Sahib,
You are right about Muslims having been occupied, defeated, decimated, expelled, cheated, colonized, and even sidelined. From total eradication in Portugal (11th, 12, and 13th centuries) and Spain (13th, 15th, 16th, and early 17th century) to the current colonization of their lands in Israel and Sinkiang, Muslims have struggled, often unsuccessfully, against domination by external forces.

The key thing to remember is that Muslims traditionally don`t cooperate in well-defined, wars with definite beginnings and endings - yes, they don`t play the 9 inning game, the ODI, the 5-day Test Match, the 15 round match, or the 1 hour game with four well-defined quarters. To them the struggle goes on until either they succeed or they disappear. In Spain and Portugal, they disappeared. Some actually lived on as Spanish Catholics for generations, finally emigrating to the New World to avoid persecution at home.

Re: # 50 salim

Man - are you hanging out with zeemax... :)

If muslims are so good at resisting oppressors - how come shias got oppressed by secular saddam, even when they were the majority?... it took the great satan to free their sorry a##es... why coouldn`t they suicide-bomb their way out of saddam oppression?... now don`t tell me shias are not real muslims ... :)

what about Bosnia muslims?... once again - great satan rescued them... what about biharis - why can`t suicide-bomb their way out of bengali oppression and paki neglect?...

Re: # 17 by zeemax:

Zeemax writes:

``As for the Hashishin (correction: after the drug hashish and not assassins mind you ...), they had a corp of hit men which was used to keep the caliph of the day from intruding into their affairs at their small domain of Almut. They were not terrorists as in current usage of the term.``

I invite readers to make up their own mind on whether or not they were terrorists, or carried out suicide missions. In any case, the topic should be of interest to those who want to study the present Jihad. To perk your interest let me state that Sinan was a rival of the great Saladin. Readers who are interested in Hashishins (or Assassins as they are also called), could start by reading: http://www.alamut.com/subj/ideologies/alamut/mirza-Sinan.html

There is more about them in the net.

#54, Mohar Bhai,
I will befriend any logical person along the way. We are all headed in the same direction - truth, justice, and the human way. Resisting oppression is pretty much consistent, the degree of success/failure varies. In Bosnia, much of the success was in holding off the Serb aggression in the dark days of 1993, 1994, and early 1995. As you know well, Sarajevo was defended at great cost and there was no external help coming. The massacre at Srebrenica shamed President Clinton into acting. By that time, the Croats were already whipping the Serbs and the Bosniacs of Bihac joined the rout. Now, in Eye Rack, the Shias did resist Sadman Houston`s cruel oppression, but were defeated. Don`t forget that over the years of Ottoman/Safavid wars in Eye Rack, the Turks favored the Sunnis and gave them tremendeous advantage in terms of land, training, and education. By hook or by crook, with or without US help, the Shias have overcome their oppressor.

The poor Biharis are victims of Pakistani prejudice and have been suffering for too long in BD. Fortuantely, many thousands have made it to Karachi and several thousand will be arriving there thanks to the corruption of border guards in BD, India, and Pakistan.

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#53 you are right on..exception is india.

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Mr. Qasmi,

There are two kinds of people who equate Islam with Terrorism: the prejudiced and the ignorant. The former are not taken seriously because of their extreme views.

But it is the latter category that we need to educate. This article does that in very effective manner. You have correctly pointed out that neither all Muslims are terrorists, nor all terrorists are Muslims.

Re: # 52 by mohar:

``GT man - you have couple of screws loose ... :))``

It took you sometime to figure this one out :-)

``OK - why my door step? Am I the powers that be?... if I am powers that be, then why should I feel oppressed?... ``

By the way, I thought you lived in the US .... 9/11 was in the US? Do you like living in the US? And if you live in India .... oh well .... no problem really, Patil will take care of things. And while you are at it please do antagonize, no humiliate, all Muslims. .... I mean, after all the Indian Hindus are a cut above everyone else ..... in khasipan :-)

#58, India may be an exception. However, IMs are just too numerous for a Modi-style eradication to succeed. They can be intimidiated and even temporarily suppressed, but in the end, they will take their rightful place as Indians. :)

By the way, I think the same applied to the Hindus who survived ``Muslim`` rule and then British rule.

SC, rf786, Urstruly, zeemax

Hallaku Khan, Mamluk victory at Ain Jalut and the Christian kingdom

After the destruction of Baghdad and the subsequent submission of Syria and Palestine, Hallaku Khan turned his attention towards Egypt. Hallaku had the largest mongol army ever assembled, 300 K strong, and had no intention of sparing The Mamluks of Egypt despite desperate attempts on their part to negotiate peace. Hallaku Khan was on a mission to destroy the Muslims and he very well would have if Allah had not intervened by sending malik-ul-maut to Mongolia to take taya jan`s spirit to heaven. The Great Khan, Mongke, who was Hallaku`s uncle, died and that stopped Hallaku dead in his tracks. The marching army turned around and returned to Mongolia. He left behind an occupation force of no more than 20,000 (50,000 by some accounts) under the his loyal commander Kitbuka Noyan. The Egyptian campaign was postponed as Hallaku intended to return later to finish the job after the dynastic struggle back home was settled.

The Mumluk Sultan was Saif-ud-din Qutuz, and not Rukn ud-Din al-Bunduqdari, as has been suggested ... Rukn ud-Din (``Baibars`` in English) became sultan by coup d`tat only afterwards... but he was a fierce commander and allied to Qutuz at this time. Instead of waiting for Hallaku to return, the sultan decided to be proactive and take the battle to the mongol garrison. The remanent crusaders kingdom of Jerusalem was now in Acre and they secretly allied themselves to the sultan. This is the only instance of Christian-Muslim co-operation against the Mongols. Although technically neutral they allowed logistical support and did not undermine the Mumluk army. The Knights Templars still wanted to side with the mongols against the Muslims but the other nobles over ruled that idea perhaps because the pope Alexander IV had also forbidden it (he perceived Mongols to be a bigger threat after what had happened in Poland & Hungary some years earlier). On the Muslim side Rukn ud-Din wanted to swallow up the Christian kingdom along the way, but the Sultan refused to betray his Christain allies. (Rukn ud-Din later betrayed that alliance after having dispatched Qutz to heaven.)

It was under these circumstances that on September 3, 1260, the battle of Ain Jalut took place where Hallaku`s loyal general Kitbuka Noyan, commander of the much smaller ``rump`` Mongol army was captured and killed. This is considered a mega event by historians because it broke the myth of Mongol invincibility. For the first time someone defeated Mongols in battle and did not suffer a devastating counter attack. Hallaku eventually got so bogged down with Mongol in-fighting that he could never return to clean up Egypt as he had originally intended.

Re: # 55 GT {``...Readers who are interested in Hashishins (or Assassins as they are also called), could start by reading: http://www.alamut.com/...``}

Well, one man`s terrorist is another man`s freedom fighter... so each will judge him differently. But it`s interesting that it took the massive force of Hallaku Kahn`s army to completely destroy them in their ``Eagles` Nest`` ... This whole movement had begun about two centuries earlier by Hassan bin Sabah.

...SR