It is Never OK to Hit a Woman

{``#274 by Urstruly on January 22, 2007 12:44pm PT
Re: # 273

No one is asking you to take anyone seriously since you are a non-muslim. You worry about your own religion and let us worry about ours.``}

Janaab Brother Urstruly,
I take Sattar Sahib seriously as a Muslim. AND I am not no one. :(

Yesterday they kicked out the Ahmedis and I stayed quiet
Then they kicked out the Smileys and I stayed quiet
Then they came for the Asna Ashuri Shias and I pretended to be Hanafi Sunni Muslim
Then the damned Wahabbis kicked out the Hanafis and no one dared to speak up.

Sattar Bhai, don`t worry my brother, I welcome you as a Muslim and will protect your right to be called one. So let it be written, so let it be said - despite what Bhutto said.

Re: # 277 saroya

can you tell me your gender please ,without any ambiguity that your posts have.

cheers

Re: # 279 bjkumar bhai

thanx for your apology.no problem bhai sahib i have forgiven you.

it shows your greatness.i realy appericiate you for that.

thank you

best

Re #276,

I blieve in Islam, without fairy-tale ideas of your ullema. Apparently this is causing you a lot of heartaches.

Do explain Issa-in-the-sky, water flowing from the Prophet`s fingers ... etc. Refer to #112 for some ``miracles of Prophet (pbuh)`` ... as recorded in ahadith and understood by your ullema. That`s pretty fancy stuff ...

It seems you have nothing intelligent to add to this topic.

+++

You continue to evade or blow smoke on ``talking ants`` issue. Your views remain senseless and unsubstantiated ... just like the rest of what you preach.

#All interactors

This is to acknowledge that I went out of line in responding to Saima Rana behna earlier, in #156.

My sincere apologies!

To make amends, here is an old lyric for you:

FooloN ka, taaroN ka
Sub ka kehna hai
Ek HazaaroN mein
Meri behna hai
Saree umaar
Hame sang rehna hai!!....

Saima Rana behna, kaha sunaa muaf karna!

All my future interacts will be directed at making amends and conducting acts of penance!

Sattar

I apologize for my rash language; sometimes my tongue slips because of human compulsions. But the fact of the matter is that I genuinly feel the pain and misery you are in. Have you ever stopped once in a while and thought what are your own responsibilities towards yourself as a human being. There are three reasons because of which a human being shirks his responsibilities towards himself:

(i) lack of (self)-awareness
(ii) Munafiqat i.e. Hypocrisy
(iii) Plainly lying to misguide people.

Please help me understand today, why you do it. The reason I am asking this question is because of the following Quadiani website, which is titled ``Muntakhib Ahadith`` i.e. Selected Ahadith. Interestingly enough almost all of these ahadith are taken from the collection of Ahadith that Muslims all around the globe consider authentic e.g Bokhari, Muslim, Ibn-Maja, Sunan abi Daud etc.

http://www.alislam.org/urdu/hadith/index.php


I have not checked whether you people have changed the wordings of any ahadith or not but giving the benefit of doubt lets assume that they are verbatim. Given that, the question is why Quadianis then so veciferously speak against ahadith.

Look if you have a genuine interest in guiding people to the righteous path then the first pre-condition is that you must be sincere to them. You must have a genuine interest in the well being for your audience. Why misguide humanity? Please solve this mystery for me because I am in misery too. Why???

The choir, Kaalchakra if eluding to the supporters of tradition, is sounding a little better than it did before Zeena let loose with her tirade; without any added discussions at all!

Which is a good thing.

Hasanmahmood`s post was constructive and informative. Whether it was correct or not is entirely irrelevent. He voiced his opinion and for that alone, he deserves respect. His words allowed me to form an opinion of him, just as the voices of others, has allowed me to form opinions of them. He was also successful in prompting a response.

Such is the nature of Chowk, airing the views of people around the world so that others may THINK!

I see value in all the posts because they make me think.

I can`t speak on certain subjects but I can listen and appreciate, and listen intently I do, to all the articles and subsequent posts, just as everyone else does.

``Find the invisible, and make it visible``

Not a quote for which I take credit, and also incomplete.

There is an added statement, the inclusion of which would not serve any purpose at this time.

Re: # 275

Good, aren`t you glad that you are not Muslim then. But then I see that your are the one dying to be one. I don`t understand you people. Hamidm: why can`t these people be more like you.

And please refer your case about Ant and Solomon directly to God, who wrote the Book. I just answered a question that was asked.

Urstruly (#124), hamidm (#207):

Talking ants? This interpretation has layers upon layers of impossibilities.

1. Firstly, it suggests that ants understood well the complexities of the way humans function. They understood “Solomon” and “his armies”, who may trample upon ants “without knowing”.

This is the convoluted outcome of Urstruly’s interpretation. Animals and insects do not have the intellect to comprehend workings of humans. But there’s more …

2. Secondly, are we to believe that Solomon was able to hear this conversation of the ants! Did he have superhuman hearing powers? When was the last time anyone heard an ant?? Such interpretations lead one to superstition …

3. Not only did Solomon (pbuh) hear the ants, he even understood what they meant! This is a fairy-tale idea from the ullema.

+++++

The words uttered were spoken by an (human) inhabitant of the “Valley of the Ants” ... and not an ``ant``. Note the subtle difference ... which leads to very different understandings of Quran. One makes sense, and the other leads to superstition.

+++++

Urstruly MiaN (#274), you propsed such silliness in the first place. Now don`t run away when it fails to make sense ...

Why don`t you begin by explaining ahadith outlined in #273 ...? Apparently you don`t have much faith in the ullema either.

Your Islam is a travesty, an amalgam of fairy-tale ideas. The only reason I raise this issue is that you want to force your beliefs on others. Otherwise I have no issues with what you believe ... regardless of how far-fetched it may be ...

Re: # 273

No one is asking you to take anyone seriously since you are a non-muslim. You worry about your own religion and let us worry about ours.

Urstruly (#132),

You admitted to ullema being shamefully superstitious as you tried to explain “talking animals” hadith. Accordingly, almost all of your ullema fit this category. And you want us to take them seriously?

And there’s more …

You have remained silent on other recorded ahadith … regarding Prophet Issa in the sky, water flowing from Prophet’s fingers, earth repeatedly expelling corpse of his enemy. If all this embarrasses you, blame your ullema.

Re #149 - 99.33% confidence level of certified ahadith does not automatically validate the remainder. Read the paragraph above. Apparently the remaining 0.67% include several fairy-tale ahadith - that you are too embarrassed to explain.

Re #173 - Exploring universe sounds good in theory … but when you start with “talking ants”, you won’t get very far! Again, problem lies with you ullema, and not with Islam.

Re: # 270

Crying hoarse in the f***ing wilderness... :)

Re: # 270

The question was not whether you find something morally offensive or not; the question was how do we even know that Prophet (pbuh) even married a woman named Khadija, or she was a wealthy woman if she really existed or did he even marry more than one woman. How do we know?

Re: # 269

hassan and urstruly,

..... i have heard all these ``excuse`` before - they are nothing more than excuses and attempts by apologists to justify an ugly pratice ........ the only reason he waited to indulge himself until khadija died was because she had financed his venture and was his co-conspirator - he didn`t dare upset her or she would have upset his apple cart .........

..... in any case, it is quite immaterial what he did then; we simply cannot use his sexual behavior or his words to form the basis of how we should treat women today - they deserve better ............

I promised myself that I will not answer this idiotic question but let me give my final thoughts on this subject. Aside from the fact that it was the norm of those times (which you already said you would not accept as a valid argument), there are many other facts to consider. First when you look at all the women he married you will understand that because of every marriage either an alliance was made for his people or something was gained for his followers, or the woman needed protection. Unfortunately your idea of Muhammad’s (PBUH) marriage hinges upon your limited vision of this enlightened Western philosophy. Almost all the marriages were with widows who were not famous for their beauty or their wealth (Hazrat Khadija for the money is an exception which is why I said almost). These marriages were for either protection or for the women’s position and respect. Our prophet (PBUH) did not gain much from it but they were sort of a personal sacrifice for him. He remained true to a wife for 25 years who was much older than him when there was no law on the limitation of marriage. Plus the ladies who married our beloved prophet were never forced into marriage. Unlike you or I worldly pleasures held no meaning for him. He was true follower of Islam and he was single-mindedly devoted to Allah.
The limitation on the number of wives was fixed after the eighth year of Hijra and our Huzoor had married all his wives before then. He was then commanded by Allah to keep those he had married and forbid him to marry any more. The verse “It is not allowed to take wives after this (33:52) shows that he had entered into his marriages in accordance with the law of Allah. There was a reason behind those marriages and once the objective was reached he was restricted to do so any longer.
Just because you think goras are always right, don’t forget that there is nothing that says that Western code of conduct is superior to the true Arab code of conduct of those days. Don’t compare the conduct between goras and our so-called Islamic scholars. And don’t compare your life and the life of some of these idiots with the prophet’s life. No matter how hard you try, you will not understand the reasons behind the things that happened. I am not asking you to accept everything (which you probably will not because of your so-called enlightened education that you probably are very proud of) but I am asking you to not go to this extend where you disrespect your own religion (from your name I am guessing you are a Muslim) and your own prophet. It is better for you to just remain quiet rather than give other non-Muslims idiotic ideas to attack your identity.
And look, I did it without quoting a hadith.

Saroya

It would have been so very helpful to see you and Dr. Sohail constructively engage in this discussion so we could settle whether and when it is ok to hit a woman.

That`s said with all respect, because you are really good folks. And good folks shouldn`t be preaching only to the choir.