It is Never OK to Hit a Woman

Re: # 266

hamidm

``...... so please tell me the facts about the prophet`s marriages and liasons ....... ``

This is a very intersting question and I am dying in anticipation to see the answer. Lets see how hasanmahmood answers the question without using any Hadith. Karen Armstrong??? what is her source of information.

Re: # 265

hassan mian,

...... so please tell me the facts about the prophet`s marriages and liasons ....... the fact is that he did what was the norm for that day and age, but that does not mean that he was a paragon of virtue by today`s standards which have evolved to regard women as more than chattel ............ the sooner the muslims accept this fact and dump both the koran and the hadith on the top shelf of their bookcase, the sooner they can set about reforming their warped system of values ....... otherwise there is no hope and poor zeena and her sisters will continue to be treated like pigs and ahmedis .........

Zeena, your statement regarding my post is greatly appreciated and accepted.
Mr. hamidm, first let me say that you should not speak until you know the facts. Just because you consider yourself a little enlightened does not mean that you should speak in this way. That is rude, and shows your lack of intellect. I am not going to come down to your level and debate with you about Huzoor’s marriages or his lifestyle. But read Quran and you will understand a lot of things.
As for the rest of the Haidth loving, women hating intellectuals let me give you an example. In 1990 I was attending a Philosophy 101 class when the professor came in and whispered “A Black cat was seen chasing a brown dog by a white person” to the person who was sitting in front of the class and he was told to whisper that sentence to the person sitting behind him who then was told to do the same thing. When we were finished with this little exercise, the professor asked the person sitting last in one corner of the room what the sentence was. He replied “A black guy was chasing a dog”. For all you naqhbandi’s, and abu-safwan’s, and whoever else thinks that they are true pillars of Islam let me tell you this. You keep berating the fact that there is validity in hadith and if we don’t believe them then we are disrespecting our Prophet (P.B.U.H), which is an asinine statement. What we are doing in not putting our faith in other human beings (not our Prophet) who could have listened to something and then changed it entirely for their own good. After all they were normal human beings. If 40 students cannot keep the story straight (from my example above) do you really think that the words would be the same over centuries? This is not the words of Quran (which did not change) but words spoken by a Human Being. Now are you going to scream at me for calling Huzoor a human being? For years I heard that Hadith said this or that. On Television after news there was a hadith they used to show (Even if you have to go China to learn then you should do it). Everyone used to quote this hadith but now all of a sudden this hadith is considered “a weak hadith”. For years I heard everyone said Alcohol was haram and it is written in Quran. When I read about it, I found out it was not haraam. So I questioned these people who then told me “Oh Huzoor mentioned it in his last Khutba.” So I looked at the Khutba and they were wrong again. So the point is, don’t listen to what others say, and look at Quran. It has a lot more things then you might believe in. A lot of times you are looking at Hadith for guidance when you have the word of Allah in front of you. So don’t start proving to the world how valid these hadith are when you have a book much more valid than that. That is why instead of wasting your time trying to understand Hadith, you guys should go and read Quran. I have seen people like you fight over what the right way of doing vozoo is without knowing that vozoo is actually explained in Quran clearly. You guy argue over what is haram and halal (be it alcohol or unzabeeha meat) not knowing what is written in Quran. You guys argue about how high your shalwars should be or how big your dari should be. You guys love to berate women without realizing the respect they actually deserve. You guys want to sansaar everyone involved in sex without knowing what the true punishment is. One of you guys mentioned (probably Naqshbandi earlier) that being called a Mullah is something to be proud of and he has not achieved this status. What kind of a moronic statement is that? What has Mullahs given you except the wrong interpretation of Islam and the treatment of women as things who are not even respectable enough to be called humans. You guys quote how great you are with your treatment of women but the abuse you hurl at Zeena speak to the contrary. By berating Zeena and other people who don’t agree with your stupid ideas, you do nothing but disrespect Islam. It shows that people like you are the reason why we are considered third-rate when it comes to treating women with respect. When you did not have any answers to her replies you resorted to sexual innuendos and cheap vulgar statements. If you guys are in love with the Talibanization of your religion you are free to do so. But stop making stupid statements. Well, because Zeena was a woman you guys thought sex would be the best way to go. So now what about all the guys who support her point. Are they only interested in having sex too or you think they all want Zeena as their girlfriend. You guys are pathetic. Stop wasting time. Philosopher, just doing PHD does not mean you are smart. It only means that you could not get a decent job after your Masters. Naqshbandi, change your name. You sound like that Qazi Hussain idiot.

#262 by Saroya

I believe that. Look around you, and you`ll find the same.

Re: # 258

zeena,

...... i hate to disappoint you, but you are wrong when you state that ``Mohd(PBUH) was a scientist and ultramodern man, who wanted to liberate our views to progress the whole world`` ............. as far as women are concerned he was not a paragon of gentlemanly and honorable behavior .....

............the fact that he kept 14 wives and a dozen concubines in his stable should tell you what he thought of women .... he might have been a `moderate` and `enlightened` man ccompared to his bedouin contemporaries, but by today`s civilized standards he falls way short .......... so, if you really want the uncouth mullahs and their incorrigible followers to improve their attitudes towards women, you should not use muhammad mian (pbuh) as an example - they might take the wrong cue from him ..................

Re: # 260

...........the more things change, the more they remain the same.

You can`t honestly believe that!

Re: # 260
You never disappoint me.

#259 by Saroya

Good words. But as words are, just words.

You`ve got to remember, the more things change, the more they remain the same.

It has taken 94 posts to answer my question.

And the answer came from one that was ridiculed, taunted and called unintelligent by some members of this forum.

I wonder do you realise that the world is no longer flat? A sailor won`t fall off the edge of the world if he sails beyond the horizon.

So much has occurred in the time that this planet has been in existence. Some good and some not so good; and still mankind prevails; stronger and wiser and more widespread than ever before in the history of man.

And still we theorise at Chowk on outdated practices in times long gone.

A bridge is required for 6 billion people. A bridge, strong enough to support their weight, yet flexible enough to allow the freedom of choices of religions and beliefs of the people of the 193 (not 37, as some would have us believe) countries upon which they stand.

This forum, like many others, gives a voice to anyone interested enough to build this bridge. And this voice will be heard.

This is mankind`s greatest challenge. Not to theorise on the sanctity of one man, nor to tear apart the philosophies of humanists, rationalists, hippies or anybody else that doesn`t conform to one way of thinking.

Such is the power at Chowk.

Such is the power you give away so freely when debate turns offensive and creates in itself a cul de sac from which no-one can escape.

So many minds of obvious intellect laid waste by bigotry at Chowk.

“The brightest future will always be based on a forgotten past. You can’t go forward in life until you let go of life’s failures and heartaches”

To all the decent interactors, abusive mullahs, my dear supporter interactors, ladies and gentlemen and even those who abused me with name calling and showed their below the belt Islamic behavior.

Hullo and Salaam

My take for this whole board is I strongly believe that Hadiths are false. Majority of these false hadiths have had been used by Males to protect their own rights and to cure their own insecurities which have no limits, even on this board. Those male mullahs abuse false hadiths and false interpretations of Quran to suppress the women folks in general and to control the human masses in particular.They did every possible task to give their fabricated Hadiths a legal status via more and more fabrication.
Sadly, this fabrication started right after the death of our Prophet(PBUH) , not by ladies, but, by some so called Muslim leaders of that particular time and they only fabricate the material to fulfill their own needs and their political gains. Majority of them sold themselves for such fabrication to the rulers and to political groups for the self promotion of their own points of views.

Majority of such fabrication was done to put down the women. Their fabricated kind of Islam Not only snatched the equal rights for women, but, also altered the whole real Islamic picture and customs for their selfish motives.They distorted the laws, customs and interpretations which were not in their favor. Not only that they manipulated the whole Islamic ultra structure and even Quran for their own satanic needs.

Unfortunately, so called Muslim mullahs, were, are and will never be able to accept the change in the view of current times, b/c we have much more awareness now, that we lacked generations ago, when right after Mohd(PBUH)`s death they intentionally kept us in dark just to control the masses and just to keep us with narrow minded approach, totally opposite of what Mohd(PBUH) taught us via Quran and his real sayings. Mohd(PBUH) was a scientist and ultramodern man, who wanted to liberate our views to progress the whole world.

These cruel Muslim mullahs like hounds and wolves felt threatened by Mohd(PBUH0`s open mindedness and progressive mind and as soon as Prophet(PBUH0 died they started all the FITNA and fasad in the form of false Hadiths and wrong interpretations of Quran.

Sadly, in their kind of Mullah Muslim fabricated society, the most suffering population were the miserable women, and they even now are not letting go of this fabricated society and things of the past will never benefit Muslim society in particular and this world in general.


This is the time we need to change this Mullah Islam, which has destroyed muslim image globally. There is absolutely NO morality left in Muslim countries. No real and fine humans are left, only hounds and wolves praying in Islamic fabricated society in the name of fabricated hadiths, ruling the masses with their pseudo Islamic fundamentalism..............

If, we see humans in Muslim countries majority of the people (mostly women ) are suffering, enough of human suffering @ the hands of these junglii animals, called Mullahs...........Our patience, our tolerance are enough tested.

We need to wake up, bring real interpretations of Quran with out false Hadiths and ban all the Hadiths altogether. We have to be together for this jihad against these fundoos Mullahs , who are calling us(anti Hadiths people). So, they don`t wish for the people to be Quran literates. They wish people to go their ways or NO ways.....

They are the plagues of the society, eradicate them with more and more liberalism , exclusively for women folks.....

Look at this anon board, don`t go far. These mullahs having fits, seizures and rage with threats and screaming with false accusations and creating an environment of animosity and tensions. Where are calm and composed intellectuals? Where are the people who are rational? Where is responsibility and humbleness? Where are sympathies and love? That was the nature of our Prophet(PBUH).

This matter is now out of our hands, here lives and deaths of humans are involved............And I am pleading exclusively for women folks..............and this board is about women issues............Mullahs brainwash young kids not to use their won brains in religious matters, but, to follow false and fabricated Hadiths and fabricated Quranic interpretations. In real Islam, Muslims were afraid of only God(Al Mighty) and even then they are allowed to question God, but, in their kind of Islam questioning their fabricated teachings is sin and punishable act and people can`t question mullahs.

Their teachings are same old false hadiths. Religious and secular matters should be separate, if, we really wish to see ourselves progressive like other nations are. Mullahs have hijacked our religion and paralyzed us with their false hadiths.We are dead people , just b/c of these false Hadiths. Real Quran wants us to use our minds, search and research, these fabricated Mullahs want us to block our minds and only believe in false Hadiths and lead our lives the way they wish us to

Earlier, Muslims were more scientific and creative , b/c they were using Quran in it`s real teachings . Latter their minds became blocked, dull and retarded b/c of false Hadiths, when they stopped reading Quran in it`s
real sense.

Believe me, this is the end of the time, Muslims need to wake up. Enough of this fabrication with Hadiths and fabrication with Quranic interpretations. Let them know who is the boss of your minds?

You and only you. They can`t control you, they can`t make you stop questioning their false hadiths through your minds. Use your mind`s light,REJECT ALL HADITHS, reject all fabricated Quranic interpretations.

Just read Quran, with open mind, calmly, composedly, use the light of your own brain and your brain will tell you , what is right and wrong??

Thanks

URSTRULY SAHIB

are you there?

Re: # 251

bjkumar mian,

....... for once, maybe twice, i agree with you totally - this article is a load of crap by yet another of those islamic apologists who are always trying to justify this thing or that based on their interpretation of gabriel`s garbled goobledygook ........ some other things you can expect from the same crowd :

.... it is never okay to marry your sister to the koran
.....it is never okay to marry your father`s wife even if he never slept with her
.....it is never okay to kick a pig even though he is haram
.....it is never okay to marry your adopted son`t wife
.....it is never okay to destroy a hindoo temple even though it houses obscene idols
.....it is never okay to adopt a son because later on you might want to marry his wife
.... it is never okay to kill an ahmedi for jay walking even though he is a kafir
.....it is never okay to beat your child senseless because he refuses to pray
.....it is okay to pray after you have passed air as long as no fluid was excreted
.....it is never okay to have sex with the lights on
.....it is not okay for men to pee standing up
.....it is okay to pee standing up if you are a woman


.......... and the list goes on and on ........

I think mindless robots are a vast improvement over the line of thinking that I see being pushed on this site by some of the ``Islamic intellectuals`` on this site on a day in and day out basis!

#253 (further thoughts)

Of course, there is no intent on my part whatsoever to imply that some of the interacts are any less crappy!

Far from it!

#252

Saima Rana - Meri behna,

Ro mat
Ro naa
Kabhie mat
Ro naa
Chahey toot jaye
Dil ka khilona..

(YOU are not the writer of this crap, by any chance?!!)

My little sis, you know how it is...

You know what they say...

People have opinion...

Every one has one...

(Like certain parts of the anatomy.)

And is entitled to them.

And in my opinion, this write-up is one crappy piece of work.

It could be called crap itself!

Like this...

CRAP!

Re: # 251
in my last i said that ``i `guess` that chowk staff has stopped reading the interacts``

but after reading more crap in 251 i am sure they have stopped reading the interacts.