It is Never OK to Hit a Woman

Re: # 394

Getting mad are we? hahahahaha. Calm down man. Thank you for reading Prophet`s (PBUH) mind for us. So what is it now, is Mirza a prophet or the messiah, or a mere reviver, tell us mr. science? I find it amazing, cab drivers who don`t even have a high school diploma are now reading Prophet`s (PBUH) mind and declaring the original statement as a metaphor (i must commend you for the big word, however, good job.) while believing in dillusional stories from Donald duck. This doesnt have to get ugly, but it will cause you don`t have any concrete evidence of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed qadiyani, and you know that i`ll keep insisting on it so your resortation to frustration and personal insults are quite comprehensible.

Abu,

You idiot, it is a metaphor … which simply suggested a future prophet who will be to ummah like Issa-ibne-Marriam was to his people. Whether Mirza Sahib is that prophet or not, is a different issue altogether.

You on the other hand think that Issa-ibne-Marriam from two thousand years ago will descend from the skies, in flesh and blood.

Keep believing in fairy tales … even as you lick your ullema’s boots …

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No comments on Maudoodi? I know it may actually require you to think ... don`t hurt yourself in process ...

Re: # 391

No, never, it’s not Jesus (PBUH), how can that be, that’s preposterous, when Prophet (PBUH) said Jesus (PBUH) son of Mary (PBUH) WHAT he ACTUALLY meant was Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani son of God knows who, because obviously this is twilight zone, that makes perfect sense sattar, I am blown over. Everything you have said now makes perfect sense. Thank You dear dir. Nothing any scholar say is a “hujjat” (justification) for me, Quran and authentic hadith is what I believe in, although I do respect all scholars, but it doesn’t mean I agree with everything that they say, that should shut u up about Maulanan Maudoodi that you seem to be infatuated with.

Serious discussion? With you? Are you kidding. Expalin Mirza’s delusions from Quran and authentic hadith (and this time something a lil more sane than Jesus (PBUH) son of Mary actually meant Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani) first and then expect people to take you seriously, as I said earlier you are getting a lil ahead of yourself here.

abu miaN,

Here’s another gem from Maulana Maudoodi (in addition to #379, #354 and #353 ... all of which you have remained silent on).

Of course, you’d insist that `he was simply a human who may have erred … no big deal`. ``Nonsense``, I say to your lame excuse.

This touches upon issue of propagation you raised earlier. If these are your ullema, it well explains ummah’s fanaticism.

More on apostasy - from Maudoodi …

“In our domain we neither allow any Muslim to change his religion nor allow any other religion to propagate its faith”

And

“The execution of apostates has already decided the issue. Since we do not allow any Muslim to embrace any other religion, the question of allowing other religions to open their missions and propagate their faiths within our boundaries does not rise.”

Maudoodi, Murtad Ki Saza Islami Qanoon Mein (“Punishment for Apostates in Islamic Law”), Lahore: Islamic Publications Ltd, 1981, 8th edition, page 32.

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This is the ugly face of your ullema and what they preach. No wonder Maudoodi is a personal fav of mullah Urstruly here ...

... no wonder ummah is going to the dogs ...

abu Sahib (#390),

Fanaticism preached by your ullema speaks for itself. And you are unable to defend it, even as you lick their boots.

You made excuses for your ullema … suggesting they are merely humans who erred. We both know your excuses are sheer nonsense. Such is the sad state of your Islam.

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I’ll give you a clue, an easy one: Ahadith about reappearance of ‘Issa-ibne-Marriam’ are actually prophecies about appearance of a prophet among Muslims … who will bear spiritual resemblance to Issa-ibne-Marriam (pbuh).

Now, you may argue that the same Issa-ibne-Marriam from two thousand years ago will reappear in flesh and blood from above clouds (something even Urstruly finds too embarrassing to admit). That’s your view, which I am OK with. Furthermore, nothing in Quran or ahadith suggests an end of prophethood.

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If you have serious inquiries, I can respond. If you want to start a spitting contest, I must decline.

Perhaps you should start by reviewing what Maudooi has written. If it does not open your eyes, then you are hopeless ...

OUCH!! So all of a sudden the polite Qadiyani is resorting to name calling. Don’t get Mad sattar sahib, I’ll do everything that you are asking me to do as soon as you show me and I quote “Quran and ahadith support continuation of prophethood”. The fact of the matter is that you can’t. How can you? If Mirza himself couldn’t do it and became a laughing stock not only in his lifetime but till the end of time, then you don’t even have a prayer. Go sell crazy somewhere else sattariya. You would have had the right to nag about Ullema’s distorting Quran and Sunnah only if you didn’t believe in a loonie-toon who first claimed to be Prophet, when that didn’t fly, he said I am a messiah, that didn’t even stick so he was like OK can I at least be a reviver? Your sincerity about the misdirection of ummah will start making sense as soon as you dump Mirza as your savior, till then you should have regular appointments with the head-doctor instead of worrying about mine.

abu-safwaan,

You need to get your head examined.

I stated that Quran and ahadith support continuation of prophethood. I did not claim that they mention Mirza Sahib by name as the next prophet.

Cut out the drama and try not to behave like a retard.

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You are avoiding crux of the issue here.

When shown hatred and fanaticism of your ullema, your tried to make excuses by suggesting they are simply human who may have erred.

That was a lame, pathetic response.

If people refuse to shun hatred and violence, even Quran or Prophet Muhamamd (pbuh) cannot help them. Rembmer that Quran mentions people whose hearts have been sealed up. Furthermore there is ... `to you, your faith, to me, mine` teaching of Quran.

Take a deep breath, pal. Ummah`s fate rests in their own hands. People like you are pissing it all away ...

Re: # 384

See slowly but surely you are coming around. It took us pages of your incoherent babble for you to say that “Quran and Prophet PBUH said himself that there will be Prophets coming after him”, now if you don’t mind , could you maybe I don’t know, give us some proof of that, and I would appreciate it if its from Quran or authentic hadith, something to the affect that “O’ You who believe wait for a man whose name will be MIRZA AHMED QADIYANI, when he comes accept his message” something like that. Make sure you don’t tell me that MIRZA said that Prophet PBUH came in his dream and told him. You are about to do something truly amazing sattar sahib, fate of billion or more misdirected and disillusioned muslims (not to mention 5 billion or more human being’) eternal future is depending on your next post. Save us all sattar sahib by posting an ayah from Quran like you mentioned in your previous post that talks about Mirza Ghulam Ahmed Qadiyani as being the next prophet. Once you do that we will become Qadiyanis (True-Muslims, my bad) and noone would have to give you explanation about Jesus (PBUH) being in heavens or the river flowing from Prophet (PBUH) fingers. But don’t get ahead of yourself, give us some proof of Mirza first.

... business is not a problem.
It is sheer idiocy that does you in each time …

Re: # 385

Oye Zurriyat-ul-Baghaya

I am little busy

Urstruly bhai, aadab a’rz

Your prolonged silence on ahadith underscores your hypocrisy. So tell me … did water really flow from his fingers? And is Issa really residing above clouds …?

In this serious discussion, we could all use some humor … you know …

(Abu Mian, feel free to interject. Let us know what your Islam says. Refer to #330 for details … this stuff is pretty awesome … )

abu Sahib (#382),

You are insisting that your ullema decide what Islam is ... and force their interpretation on others. That is, might is right … even in matters of faith.

Such a view is negated in Quran. It violates human dignity at a fundamental level. People should be allowed to peacefully practice their faith … and this is the truth you are in denial of.

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FYI, my view is that appearance of prophets after Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is fully supported by Quran, sayings of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh) himself, as well as numerous well-respected scholars throughout history of Islam.

Allah has raised prophets throughout history of mankind. All along this was not a problem, but all of a sudden, today it is a problem! There is no reason to support your contention. Quran tells us that people raised all sorts of objections against Allah’s prophets. Your objections are nothing new …

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More on handsome analogy: Whether someone considers you handsome or ugly is not the issue. You have the right to consider yourself handsome. If law declares you ugly … and imprisons you for claiming otherwise ... such law is beneath human dignity.

Majority should implement laws they want … and they will collectively reap what they sow. On the other hand, Islam tells me to be patient, to forgive, and to make peaceful efforts to improve status quo. And if circumstances become unbearable, a Muslim should migrate to another land. And life goes on ...

Sahib, you try to sweep under the rug teachings of Maudoodi ... by suggesting he was a human who made mistakes. Well, same can be said of Daniel Pipes, Hitler, and Abu Jehal. A lifetime of preaching hatred and violence deserves condemnation ... not of the person, but of what he stood for.

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Crisis faced by ummah today has nothing to do with Ahmadi-Muslims. It is rooted in fanaticism and hatred preached by their ullema over centuries. Ignoring this problem will make things worse … but ummah and their ullema are failing to accept this reality. Result is plain for all to see …

Re: # 377
1. Albert Einstein - one of the greatest philosophers!!!!!

2. Say it all in one breath and the statement is the same - ``freedom from control or the influence of others i.e freedom from the control of others as well as and including freedom from the influence of others``

Re: # 381

All MUSLIMS have the right to practice Islam as they wish, you are not in that Category anymore because you have broken the basic creed of the faith by announcing that there is another messenger after Muhammad (PBUH). It’s not Islam anymore sattar sahib. You keep complaining like you are a sect of Islam that is being persecuted, my dear friend you are Qadiyanis, Sunnis, Shias these are sect of Islam, you are a different religion. But I as an individual have no right to stop you from your ibadats, whether you are doing sajda or rukoo or whatever that’s none o my business, but in return you would have to follow the rules of the game as well, there is enormous jahiliya in our countries and well grounded and established fear is that you will present QADIYANIYAT as Islam to the poor layman’s who are not smart enough to counter the oratory and hence will fall in the trap. I guess you didn’t quite understood my Most handsome metaphor , just because I Think I am, It doesn’t mean I am. If I insist upon it, people would ask for my mug-shot so they can decide whether I am for real or not, that’s precisely what I am giving you the opportunity to do, and you are not getting irritated for some odd reason

I will be saying this for the 5th time now that I am against all type of violence against anyone and everyone. As far as the Draconian laws are concerned, patriot ACT is a draconian law as far as I am concerned but I abide by it because the majority of this country thinks that it’s good for their country. My religion tells me that when I live in a foreign land, I live their as a law abiding citizen, if there laws prevent me from practicing my religion then the HUKUM for me is to migrate to friendlier lands. What I am trying to say is that in a democracy not all laws are to your liking but if that’s what the majority wants, then that’s what they’ll implement, right or wrong. Sattar Sahab our religion wasn’t born yesterday we have 1500 years of lineage and recorded history which you pick and choose to suit your agenda, we have had lunatics and opportunistic thugs who wanted to get notoriety and make a quick buck by claiming to be a prophet even in the time of Prophet (PBUH), mirza didn’t do anything original and we also know how Prophet (PBUH) dealt with “Prophets”, you obviously will deny and say that nothing of the sort happen. The reason ullema are so hostile against you for which I am not endorsing them is because you guys have played dirty in the past. Qadiyanis were declared non-muslims in ’73, your own dubious past brought that fate. In a poor uneducated country where people can’t read there own names, you have to play nice if you don’t and you didn’t then this is what happens. You can’t preach Qadiyaniyat with the label of Islam my dear sir, if you keep on it then we’ll put a stop to it in a democratic fashion because the well being of the illiterate-society at large is at stake.

Abu Sahib,

You are stuck in a ranting mode … which is the correct reflection of the ummah.

Ummah is carrying out suicide bombings and calling it jihad. I grew up in Karachi with shia-sunni riots shutting down the city each moharram. This is the result of hatred and violent ideology preached by ullema. Ahmadi-Muslims have nothing to do with any of this …you are ignoring the problem.

You can claim to be a handsome person … that’s your right. If law prevents you from claiming to be handsome, such law is ridiculous and unfair. Similar is the law that penalizes Ahmadis for practicing Islam. The parallel is obvious …

You agree that even though people approved of discriminatory laws against African Americans, these laws were Draconian and unethical. Obviously people did not think so when such laws were passed! So what does that prove? Only that laws passed very well may be unethical!

A person has the right to peacefully practice Islam as he understands it. Failing to accept this principle is the root of fanaticism. Each sect has been declared kaffir by other sects at some point in time. You yourself are behaving like a fanatic here.

Demanding that I prove my faith to you beyond shadow of doubt further underscores your childishness.

Even Quran suggests that hearts of hypocrites have been sealed by Allah. This implies that when a person nurses hatred in his heart, his reasoning gets compromised. To such people best advice is … to you, your faith, and to me, mine. Let’s agree to disagree and move on. But must one party violently persecute the other? Must Ahmadis be locked up for offering salaat, for reciting Quran, for saying “as’salamo alaikom”?

You should ask yourself … what right do you have to force your interpretation of Islam on others? Think with a cool head and you may realize fanaticism of your ways. Or may be not …

Re: # 378

See I told you I am not going to just take your word for it, you gotta bring proof of MIRZA being the prophet, that is essential to the argument my friend and I know you will keep on harping and moaning how tremendous injustice has been done to QADIYANIS for declaring them non-Muslims when they ARE INFACT NON-MUSLIMS. You have to prove that they are, by showing to us proof of mirza’s Prophet-hood. Why is that so hard to do? I am glad you mentioned civil-rights and American constitution and the persecution of Meccans. There is one diabolical difference however, African Americans showed and proved their case to American masses and hence DEMOCRATICALLY those draconian laws were over-turned, the truth was on their side. It’s not on ur’s. This is exactly what I am saying, if you are able to proof beyond the shadow of doubt the validity of Mirza as the messenger of Allah then the entire Pakistani nation will welcome you with open arms, not to mention the entire Muslim world, you’ll be the hottest thing since slice bread. But the problem is you can’t, cause if you could, the 20,000 americans that are converting to True-Islam every year would be converting to Qadyaniyat, cause obviously you have all the freedoms here in the west, if Qaiyaniyat was such a HOT thang I am sure you would have met at least mediocre success in an open and free society like USA.
Sattarr Sahab at the end of the day all you have is rhetoric and hogwash, I asked you a plain and simple question, if you are breaking the basic creed of the religion then you must be doing it under some conviction. I am just asking you to show me what is the source for that conviction, are you Qadiyani because your parents are Qadiyani, or did they really give you some concrete video evidence that Allah SWT was talking to MIRZA, anything would help really.
It’s a very slippery slope, as I said earlier, tomorrow some other loon can claim prophethood so we gotta set some standards here. I am not here defending Maudoodi (Rahim Ullah Alleyh), he was a human being and he made mistakes I am sure, we will discuss his writings once we establish that you as a Muslim have concerns regarding his literature, right now you are nothing but a hater, so lets deal with the bigger issue first, shall we? But you can criticize him as an outsider just like Daniel pipes harp all day on Muhammad (PBUH), its least of my concern. I agree that Bal thakray and george bush don’t claim to be Muslims, but since when did claiming justify the right. I claim to be the worlds most handsome man, anyone can claim anything, you gotta back it up with something as well. In case of Islam you would have to back it up with the proclamation that “There is no God but Allah and Muhammad (PBUH) was his LAST messenger”, ironically enough initially that’s what Mirza preached as well till the brits made him an offer that he just couldn’t receive. Having said all o that, I personally believe that violence and force creates animosity if we truly would like to win the hearts and minds of people and bring them within the folds of Islam then it would have to be done with compassion and dialogue. But then the problem is that your Scholars runaway from Dialogue and debate as well.