It is Never OK to Hit a Woman

Re: # 80zeena
i love the way women make mountain out of molehill.i love them.

where have i questioned your faith?i have never said that you are non-believer on the contrary i said you love islam i know that but i was surprised the way you were justifying pick and choose approach.

doent it mean that islam as whole is not suitable for permoting human values?i dont think u would say that.i believe that islam in its essence both in letter in spirit is humanistic if we ignore the inrpretations of ignorant mullah.where have i admired mullahism.

yes i am proud to be a Man coz i know a real man is the one who respects woman.

there is a saying of the holy prophet[pbuh]that ``honarable man always respects women``

what abt this hadith?

i know there are false hadith.i dont believe in all of them. what i m saying is that we should take them as general guidance and should learn how prophet[pbuh]dealt with the propblems of that society.

its not that we should make every hadith an independent proposition.

i have never Questioned your faith in islam.i know you deeply love islam.you sound to me a real practicing muslim both spirtualy and social.

yes i confess i havent done anything for women folk coz i m not married yet.lol.

regards

#81
philosopher sahib

1:-[[yes i confess i havent done anything for women folk coz i m not married yet.lol.]]

Where on the earth it is written that you can only do something good by getting married to her?

You still can raise voice and help those poor women folks who really need your help in so many ways........

2:-[[i love the way women make mountain out of molehill.i love them.]]

On the contrary, it is opposite, majority of men make mountain out of a mole. Just look here on this board, majority of men are doing what you accused women of. Just go to other boards, 98% of men are busy day and night making all the big mountains out of small molehills...........................

3:-[[ i know there are false hadith.i dont believe in all of them. what i m saying is that we should take them as general guidance and should learn how prophet[pbuh]dealt with the propblems of that society. ]]

If you know there majority of false hadiths which are the weapons used by these ignorant mullahs for the oppression of women and for beating up the women folks then why not reject them all and guide your own good will for the betterment of women..................

Prophet(PBUH) dealt with that society, time is changed, we should change now. We can`t apply same old dogmas with the current society and current times...............

4:-[[yes i am proud to be a Man coz i know a real man is the one who respects woman.

there is a saying of the holy prophet[pbuh]that ``honarable man always respects women`` ]]

Yes, If you`re a good and noble man and respect women folks, why will you need this hadith for your guidance? You`ll respect women anyway................................

Again to you, your belief and to me mine................Thanks

scoutie

Thanks for your support for women folks............

Re: # 82zeena
now i will never dare to reply your posts.i dont know wanna hit the hornets net.

regards.

#84

[[[hornets net]]] LOL.........

Oh a little smack on the ass never hurts...unless you want it to.

zeena

you visit

www.takeninhand.com you will find realy intresting stuff about women and the experiences of the women.

best

sattar mian,

i accept your basic argument that not all hadith are reliable due to the method of oral transmission. yet do you think the islamic scholars were unaware of this? why do you think the whole body of science known as ilm al hadith and usul al hadith and ilm al rijaal [science of hadith narrators] etc. all developed? The hadith sciences have an incredibly detailed classification system in which not only the reliability of each transmitter/narrator is checked but also the text itself to see if it conforms with the quranic text.

you yourself admitted that imam bukhari, for example, rejected many hadith. and you admit that most hadith are okay.

doctrine [aqida] is only allowed to be based on those hadith which are known as sahih = rigorously authenticated and mutawaatir = those with so many different narrators that it is impossible for it to have been forged. for example if one person says you said something it might not be true but if 20 different people all independently verify you said exactly the same thing then it makes it very likely you did say it.

so, respect that these issues you are right to come up did exist but those far more brilliant than you [or me] developed a rigorous methodology to deal with them. remember also that these people were extremely pious and would never knowingly falsify something possibly said by the Messenger. To give you an example, it is known that when teaching hadith imam abu hanifa would perform fresh wuzu and put on clean clothes and perfume himself each time he narrated a single hadith.

the imams of hadith were so scrupulous --precisely to avoid the kind of problems you mentioned--that it boggles the mind.

there are over 50 classifications of hadith!

Re: # 88 naqshbandi sahib

can you plz tell me the validity of the hadith of the verse of rajm which was quoted by the hazrat umar[ra].is it valid?if it is ,wont it create confusion?you know what i mean and want to say.its a very sensitive topic.plz reply it.

regards

zeena: how do you know that that is a saying of the holy prophet [peace be upon him and his family and companions]? i thought you said you dont believe in any hadith at all?
you`ve just contradicted yourself!

and the reason women are treated so badly in most muslim countries is not because of islam or because of the ulama but it is because [a] most people are ignorant of islamic teachings [b] the influence of local traditions which tend to take precedence over islam [c] misogyny in society.

**********************

btw those translations of the koran were not convoluted. you can look up the same verses in any translation you like.

here`s a serious question for all ye fairer sex folks: why is it that so many women --and this is documented--all over the world, continue in relationships in which they are physically abused?

to quote don corleone--`` a man who hits a woman can never be a real man!``

some wisdom:

btw is it true if a lady says `no` itmeans `maybe`, `maybe` means `yes` and a lady who says, `yes` is no lady!

:D

philosopher bhai.

i am not a hadith scholar but here is some info from someone who is learned whose opinion i trust as it based on that of those who were hadith experts:

Stoning Verses and Abrogation


Answered by Shaykh Gibril F Haddad

Q. I am involved in a discussion with some sisters where they disagree about stoning as the punishment for adultery.

Wa `alaykum as-Salam:

It is practically impossible to get someone convicted for adultery in Islam for a variety of reasons; but there is no disagreement about stoning (rajm) as the punishment for adultery. The Prophet, upon him peace, pronounced and carried out rajm upon three married Muslims - one man and two women - and two Jews, a man and a woman.

Stoning for adultery is mass-transmitted from the Prophet, upon him peace, both as verbal injunction (Hadith ``The child belongs to the household where he is born and the adulterer gets stones``) and actual deed (stoning of Maa`iz ibn Maalik, Allah be well-pleased with him) cf. al-Kattani, Nazm al-Mutanathir (p. 105-106 §181-182). Furthermore, there is complete consensus in the first three generations of Islam - both in law and in its application by the Four Caliphs - that the hadd of adultery for the non-married is stoning, cf. Ibn Qudama, al-Mughni (8:158); Ibn Hajar, Fath al-Bari (12:118).

i.e. some say there are no stoning verses on the Qur`an, whilst as far as I know, unmarried individuals get lashes and banishment, whilst married people get lashes and stoning.

There are three types of abrogated Qur`anic verses:

(1) recitation-abrogated and ruling-abrogated

(2) recitation-established and ruling-abrogated

(3) recitation-abrogated and ruling-established

The verses that concern stoning as the punishment for a married person`s adultery are of type (3) cf. al-Suyuti, al-Itqan fi `Ulum al-Qur`an (Type 47 of the Qur`anic Sciences, 2:718 of the Mustafa al-Bugha 1993 2nd edition, Dar Ibn Kathir).

how many women here get turned on by mike tyson?

ignore my last post about tyson--i am deliberately trying to wind people up now. tyson is an animal!

#87 saimarana

I will. Thanks

Re: # 22 saima shah

well the answer is in the 127 th to 130 verse of the sura nisa[4:127-130]the word used there for his excelencey husband`s lewdness ,ill-treatment is ``nashooz``it is the same word used for wife`s lewdness.though male scholar translate that word as wife`s``disobedience``completly ignoring the fact that similar word is used for husband `s dissertion as well.[here are the verses]


4:128 And if a woman fears from her husband desertion, or ill-treatment, then there is no sin for them to reconcile between themselves; and reconciliation is good. And the souls are brought by need. And if you are kind and do right, then God is expert over what you do.

4:129 And you will not be able to be fair regarding the women even if you make every effort; so do not sway too greatly and leave her as one hanging in a void. And if you reconcile and do right, then God is Forgiving, Merciful.

4:130 And if they separate, then God will provide for each of them from His bounty. God is Vast, Wise.




it is said that in the case of husband` nashooz first of all wife should talk to him and try to solve the problem and if she wanna continue marriage, compromise on some issues.but if doesnt help she can ask for khula.

these are general principles.normaly Quran commands people to follow the ``uraf``or the good norms of their societies and ask them to use common sense and settle their problems lovingly.

but if the situation arises to that level where its not possible to reconcile than they are allowed to take legal actions.islam has got its own complete legal structure.you have got to look into it seriously.

regards

The title is progressive but the author takes us directly to the common place of verses. The context of the article is, I think, the fracas between Moin Khan and his wife.

It looks like (from the news I read), that they had misunderstandings and even infidelity.

Moin`s wife, being a smart woman, wanted to `expose` Moin by making public abt his drinking habits and even worse took a swipe, ` he still thinks that he`s an young hero`. To me, this sounds like that Mrs. Khan was making a comment on Moin`s `performance` at home. Btw, our men take their individual performances as satisfactory; performace was never meant to be questioned outside bedrooms. In the meanwhile our women are not known to express their opinions like the way Mrs. Khan did it. That comment wud have hurt the manhood of Moin.

As for Moin employing violent methods on his wife, it`s very ugly for a grown-up man (more so for a public figure) to resort to such pre-modern methods. I think it`s easiest in Islam to part ways (couples).